My Hero Academia 2: I will endeavor to become a thread you can be proud of

[Lord Raziere]

Did any of those people wear capes and underwear to fight crime? Probably not super heroes then.

counterpoint: Iron Man doesn't wear capes and underwear and fights things that are a bit more than mere crime, and The Hulk doesn't wearing anything but pants and fights whatever he rages at. so either they are not superheroes or....

[Dragonus45]

counterpoint: Iron Man doesn't wear capes and underwear and fights things that are a bit more than mere crime, and The Hulk doesn't wearing anything but pants and fights whatever he rages at. so either they are not superheroes or....

You know darn well what I meant though, the concept of "Super Hero" has a lot of specific trappings to it that previous myths didn't so it is perfectly fair to separate the two.

[Kato]

Historical discussion aside, I think Zodiac was talking about the MHA universe, where superheroes first emerged in the US. (though, I'm not totally sure if that is Toshinori's reasoning but I guess it makes somewhat sense)

I think debating the superhero issue is interesting but would stretch the limits of the thread.

[Dragonus45]

Historical discussion aside, I think Zodiac was talking about the MHA universe, where superheroes first emerged in the US. (though, I'm not totally sure if that is Toshinori's reasoning but I guess it makes somewhat sense)

I think debating the superhero issue is interesting but would stretch the limits of the thread.

I'm actually not sure if that is true in universe. I just know that Kōhei Horikoshi is a giant fan of western comics and media in general so it would make sense that he randomly decided to name a bunch of super hero moves after various states and make the ultimate technique the United States of SMASH!

[LaZodiac]

Kato has it right. While the first quirk was born in China, it's established in Vigilantes (admitidly it's not clear just how canon it is, but until My Hero proper contradicts it I think it's fine and I think it actually supports it) the first country to get super heroes acting as vigilantes was America, and as such they're the first country to implement the hero system as a thing.

[lord_khaine]

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Now that was unexpected. I had not guessed that this was Endevors swansong. That the attempts to show a slightly more positive side of him were in part because he was going to be removed as well.
It does make sense though. Removing him will make the hero society crumble as the nr 1 symbol of it are suddenly defeated in open battle.
And it also does make sense Endevor cant beat someone designed by AfO, who are given 5-6 different quirks.

[Spacewolf]

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I doubt he's dead he'll of just lost an eye.
I'm guessing this is going to be the part where he steps up to be No1.

[Kato]

Well...

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That's unexpected. I'm not gonna put money on it but after Sir I'm not sure Endeavor is gonna make it. As was pointed out, killing him would massively move the plot forward. And a shot through the head is pretty deadly. We'll see... Maybe he will get up, maybe Hawk rises to the occcasion, maybe Toshinori shows up with the last of his strength..

But yes, good chapter, as most often. I guess Shoto gets a massive motivation kick from this.

[lord_khaine]

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Im quite certain that Endevor wont make it due to the entire setup of this chapter and the last.
We were first given a sight of his more positive but hidden side.
And then got an actual goodbye scene with both Endevors wife and Todoroki.

[Callos_DeTerran]

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Im quite certain that Endevor wont make it due to the entire setup of this chapter and the last.
We were first given a sight of his more positive but hidden side.
And then got an actual goodbye scene with both Endevors wife and Todoroki.

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Remember all the death flags they gave All Might before he fought All for One? And how All Might is very much still alive? Or all Bakugo's villainous traits and an attempt to kidnap and convert him? But he's a still a hero? Or how the main character got involved in a tournament arc with two different rivals? And how he didn't make it past the first one or see the finals at all?

MHA has faked us out in the past with things like this.

[lord_khaine]

I kinda disagree on that. I dont think we were given any actual death flags for All Might. Not like these. We were given a lot of signs about how he was fading. And the battle against All for One did also prove to be his last one.
Bakugo is someone i from the start argued against ever turning, because the signs i saw there said "arrogant jerk" and not Villain.
And as for the last bit about the tournament. That was our own expectations working against us. From the start we were not given any signs or hin that Deku should win it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I kinda disagree on that. I dont think we were given any actual death flags for All Might. Not like these. We were given a lot of signs about how he was fading. And the battle against All for One did also prove to be his last one.
Bakugo is someone i from the start argued against ever turning, because the signs i saw there said "arrogant jerk" and not Villain.
And as for the last bit about the tournament. That was our own expectations working against us. From the start we were not given any signs or hin that Deku should win it.

We've been getting death flags for All Might since the beginning of the story, All for One even comments that All Might missed the perfect chance to die in an inspiring way to motivate Midoriya to further heights of heroism.

And you may have argued that, but that doesn't change the fact that Bakugo is a genius delinquent that hates the main character, hates being pitied, and has been frustrated by being overshadowed the other people in his class. You could make the argument that he was perfectly set up to turn evil, which the story itself acknowledges and that's even why Higaraki has him kidnapped in the first place, because he thinks he'll be easy to recruit.

And that's...kind of the point. The story may not have given any signs that Deku would win, but it definitely gave signs that he was going to fight Todoroki and Bakugo and it is also a shounen manga which follows certain conventions and tropes...then completely ignored them.

...So yeah, MHA does throw up flags just to subvert them in clever ways and I wouldn't be surprised if this incident is just going to be another example of this.

[Traab]

We've been getting death flags for All Might since the beginning of the story, All for One even comments that All Might missed the perfect chance to die in an inspiring way to motivate Midoriya to further heights of heroism.

And you may have argued that, but that doesn't change the fact that Bakugo is a genius delinquent that hates the main character, hates being pitied, and has been frustrated by being overshadowed the other people in his class. You could make the argument that he was perfectly set up to turn evil, which the story itself acknowledges and that's even why Higaraki has him kidnapped in the first place, because he thinks he'll be easy to recruit.

And that's...kind of the point. The story may not have given any signs that Deku would win, but it definitely gave signs that he was going to fight Todoroki and Bakugo and it is also a shounen manga which follows certain conventions and tropes...then completely ignored them.

...So yeah, MHA does throw up flags just to subvert them in clever ways and I wouldn't be surprised if this incident is just going to be another example of this.

Isnt the shounen trope that the hero fails miserably against his rivals the first few times? Take naruto and sasuke. How long did it take for naruto to straight up win a fight against him? Generally the hero doesnt overcome his rival till near the end of the series, unless its meant to recruit/befriend him. We see an example of that in a lesser known one Shaman King. The rival is usually the symbol of how far the hero has to go till he is "strong enough" for his goal outside of whoever the antagonist is.

[Kato]

Isnt the shounen trope that the hero fails miserably against his rivals the first few times? Take naruto and sasuke. How long did it take for naruto to straight up win a fight against him? Generally the hero doesnt overcome his rival till near the end of the series, unless its meant to recruit/befriend him. We see an example of that in a lesser known one Shaman King. The rival is usually the symbol of how far the hero has to go till he is "strong enough" for his goal outside of whoever the antagonist is.

While 'the rival' is such a common shonen trope I have a hard time thinking of too many examples right now.. But let's go with what might be the most famous (in recent times) : Naruto to some extent overshadowed Sasuke as early as the zabuza arc, but he needed to go berserk for that. Then he beat Gaara when Sasuke couldn't. Then Rasengan proved more powerful than Chidori which was basically the reason for Sasuke running away. Sasuke beat him at the end of that arc but then for the longest time we don't know which one is stronger. Or ever, kind of.
In DB I guess vegeta is the closest and he's mostly a step behind Goku, like anyone else.
Other popular Shonen.. Well, FMA doesn't really have a rival (does it?), Fairy Tail.. Gray? Kind of mostly same level. HxH I can't comment on.
Don't get me wrong, instinctively I would easily agree that the hero catching up to the rival is common, yet I fail to think of concrete examples.

Bakugo certainly fills the slot best, even if there are other candidates, but I am not sure how the power balance is right now with Deku making such rapid progress.

[Lizard Lord]

I am still not riding off the "Bakugo becomes a villain" thing, I just also never thought it would anywhere close to early in the series. We know for a fact that Deku becomes the number one hero. and that is going to do something to Bakugo. Wtih the path he is on now the best case scenario is for him to be like Endeavor.

[Jayngfet]

I think the main difference to understand is that the Midoriya/Bakugo relationship peters off fairly early on and Todoroki takes a lot more focus as the strong interesting dark horse rival with more parallels to Midoriya. But the comic isn't exactly about the two of them fighting so much as them trying to overcome a force larger than them while trying to go through a system trying to maintain a semblance of normalcy.

[Traab]

While 'the rival' is such a common shonen trope I have a hard time thinking of too many examples right now.. But let's go with what might be the most famous (in recent times) : Naruto to some extent overshadowed Sasuke as early as the zabuza arc, but he needed to go berserk for that. Then he beat Gaara when Sasuke couldn't. Then Rasengan proved more powerful than Chidori which was basically the reason for Sasuke running away. Sasuke beat him at the end of that arc but then for the longest time we don't know which one is stronger. Or ever, kind of.
In DB I guess vegeta is the closest and he's mostly a step behind Goku, like anyone else.
Other popular Shonen.. Well, FMA doesn't really have a rival (does it?), Fairy Tail.. Gray? Kind of mostly same level. HxH I can't comment on.
Don't get me wrong, instinctively I would easily agree that the hero catching up to the rival is common, yet I fail to think of concrete examples.

Bakugo certainly fills the slot best, even if there are other candidates, but I am not sure how the power balance is right now with Deku making such rapid progress.

Maybe he did start to overshadow sasuke, but he never managed to beat him directly. Too be fair they only had like 2-3 uninterrupted fights over the course of the series, plus a few flashbacks of them at the academy with sasuke beating naruto like a drum.

[LaZodiac]

Holy **** I forgot that this series can be REALLY GRAPHIC when it wants to. I analyzed Endeavor's face for...AWHILE. That's uh...if he lives I don't think he'll be happy about it, I'll say that much. It didn't go STRAIGHT through his head, more sliced across his face, but he's DEFINITELY losing that eye, 100%.

Also! New Vigilantes!

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Turns out the suspicious crab girl...IS A COP! DUN DUN DUUUUUN!

[lord_khaine]

I think the main difference to understand is that the Midoriya/Bakugo relationship peters off fairly early on and Todoroki takes a lot more focus as the strong interesting dark horse rival with more parallels to Midoriya. But the comic isn't exactly about the two of them fighting so much as them trying to overcome a force larger than them while trying to go through a system trying to maintain a semblance of normalcy.

I think both Bakugo and Todoroki is meant to reflect against Midoria in different ways. But i even think Midoria said it himself. After his first real conversation with Todoroki. How in a different story he would have been the main character.
Honestly, i think all 3 of them has enough development to stand as a main character.

[LaZodiac]

I think both Bakugo and Todoroki is meant to reflect against Midoria in different ways. But i even think Midoria said it himself. After his first real conversation with Todoroki. How in a different story he would have been the main character.
Honestly, i think all 3 of them has enough development to stand as a main character.

Recently rewatched that part with a friend, he mentions Todoroki has a origin straight out of comics, a truly dramatic backstory. So yeah, definitely agree on that. Really everyone except maybe a couple people have personality enough to carry their own series.

[LaZodiac]

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Endeavor is...mostly okay! He can't move and can barely fight, but with Hawk's help he's sticking in there!

My Hero is off next week v_v.

[Traab]

So, I mentioned earlier having watched the fight against all for one, I was wondering though, do they ever cover the big problem that fight exposed? Namely, for me the biggest issue was what this revealed. All Might was an idiot. He became the symbol of peace for japan, he was the number 1 hero, the one everyone could rely on. Had he fallen there? It would have SHATTERED the people. He had his rep built up as the unbeatable best of the best so if he falls, if he gets beaten, how can the people believe they will survive? How can the other heroes believe they can step up and fill those shoes? Much better if midoriya manages to make it a group effort. More justice league unlimited. That way if "superman" falls, the world knows they still have wonder woman, batman, flash, etc etc etc. People who can and will step up. When superman "died" the world didnt suddenly cry out they were doomed, they mourned the tragic loss of a great hero, but knew the league would keep fighting the good fight.

I mean, I get the idea of being that pillar for the community, but wouldnt it be better to have MANY pillars? One pillar may be strong, but if it breaks, the whole thing will collapse. If there are a dozen pillars and one breaks, the rest will be able to handle the load. (theoretically, but you get my point) A part of the problem being the ranking of heroes. Bad idea all the way around. Because if the number 1 dies, then "clearly" no one else can stop the bad guy. But in a league setup, you would expect the rest of the league to be able to take over in case the worst happens. Because they are all treated as strong.

[LaZodiac]

The episode directly after that fight is almost entirely people going "oh **** we really shouldn't of let All Might be so big that we didn't have to do much" and partly All Might himself acknowledging this error himself, and how it's ****ed up Deku and everyone's teaching.

So yes, quite extensively they go over this. The last...couple ARCS have all been a result of the backlash of All Might's true form being revealed and his power burnt out.

[Traab]

The episode directly after that fight is almost entirely people going "oh **** we really shouldn't of let All Might be so big that we didn't have to do much" and partly All Might himself acknowledging this error himself, and how it's ****ed up Deku and everyone's teaching.

So yes, quite extensively they go over this. The last...couple ARCS have all been a result of the backlash of All Might's true form being revealed and his power burnt out.

Ah excellent. :p The closest ive seen to "right after this" is all might going around and talking to the parents. Watching bakugo getting smacked around by his mom, all might begging midoriyas mom, etc etc etc.

[LaZodiac]

Ah excellent. :p The closest ive seen to "right after this" is all might going around and talking to the parents. Watching bakugo getting smacked around by his mom, all might begging midoriyas mom, etc etc etc.

That's fair. Just keep in mind the entire start of that episode is the government of Japan going "hey we kinda ****ed up huh" and the only reason All Might and Aizawa are going around is because the school system acknowledges this is true. And we'll see more of this as time goes on

[lord_khaine]

That's fair. Just keep in mind the entire start of that episode is the government of Japan going "hey we kinda ****ed up huh" and the only reason All Might and Aizawa are going around is because the school system acknowledges this is true. And we'll see more of this as time goes on

Its one of the few places where i think Tomura were right. Namely how he mocked the fact that it was the heroes who had to bend their head and apologize despite it being him that attacked them.

And while i do like the league idea, then im not certain if it would have worked or not.
There were heroes back before the rise of All Might. But it did not seems like they had the symbol effect that he wanted to create.

So yes, quite extensively they go over this. The last...couple ARCS have all been a result of the backlash of All Might's true form being revealed and his power burnt out.

It has for a very large part mainly come from someone kidnapping a student from UA.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Its one of the few places where i think Tomura were right. Namely how he mocked the fact that it was the heroes who had to bend their head and apologize despite it being him that attacked them.

And while i do like the league idea, then im not certain if it would have worked or not.
There were heroes back before the rise of All Might. But it did not seems like they had the symbol effect that he wanted to create.

It seems to be, in part, because none of the heroes before All Might had the sheer....power and personality that he does. Its a point at the beginning of the show that a lot of heroes aren't really in it for alturistic ideals...they're in it for the money, the fame, etc...in other words, being a hero is kind of treated as another job.

And for All Might at least, its not a job its his life, combine that with his overwhelming charisma and the fact he makes being a hero seem effortless...you can see why All Might became the pillar that Japan needed while others haven't and why a League idea didn't come about. All Might has the right mix of personality and ability that others lack.

That's part of why the fight with All for One was so damaging, not only was All Might forced to publicly retire like he did but, as was pointed out, the world was suddenly exposed to the idea that there are villains out there as powerful as All Might that people just...didn't know about. What if there's more of them? What if they're working together? And now All Might is retired?!

Tomura hasn't actually succeeded at any of the individuals goals he's set out to do on the show so far but his larger goal of eroding hero society? He's doing a pretty good job.

[lord_khaine]

I do think thats a large part of it yes. A large part of the main JLA members, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green lantern.
Had they been transplanted to MHA, then they would have become the symbol of peace. Each of them has the potential on their own.
Or well, in Superman or WW's case, they would have become more, a symbol for the entire world. But they are also so blantantly OP. AfO is the mark where they need to take things just a little seriously.
And thats to avoid collatoral damage.

[Cozzer]

It might be a generational thing. When Toshinori became Allmight, Japan needed that kind of symbol to unify people and bring an era of peace. Now that society changed, another kind of "symbol" (embodied by heroes in general, not just a single sefless superhero) is the best thing to preserve peace.

I mean, it's easy to criticize him now that we're seeing a world that's already ready for the next stage, but he did bring an era of unprecedented peace upon society with his "pillar of peace" approach.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I do think thats a large part of it yes. A large part of the main JLA members, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green lantern.
Had they been transplanted to MHA, then they would have become the symbol of peace. Each of them has the potential on their own.
Or well, in Superman or WW's case, they would have become more, a symbol for the entire world. But they are also so blantantly OP. AfO is the mark where they need to take things just a little seriously.
And thats to avoid collatoral damage.

That's assuming Superman or Wonderwoman's abilities wouldn't be treated as quirks, because Superman has the habit of tanking his opponent's abilities to try to get them to give up. Can you imagine how delighted AfO would be with Superman's 'quirk'?

...Well...Until he wore it out anyway and Superman's abilities are gone forever.