Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

[GrayDeath]

Curses!

Now I need to redo and make a Half---whatever Giant Half Squid-halfconstruct-thingy....^^

[ben-zayb]

I ran into a similar problem on my last entry. From what I understand, SRD makes explicit usage of the term "original type" when classifying the CR increase of monsters when advancing HD.

[Falontani]

I think I'll enter into this contest, even though my half dragon half giant squid is out for the count

[Thurbane]

I definitely have a build in mind, but now the age old struggle to see if I can get it formatted and fluff written up by the deadline...

[Sejoran]

Not really one for forums, but this has piqued my interest enough that i have something that should be decent at least. I just hope i can calculate the CR correctly, not very good with determining associated and non-associated class lvls.

[WhamBamSam]

For the purpose of this competition, treat all class levels as associated. The class is, after all, something you chose for an optimized purpose.

[Falontani]

For the purpose of this competition, treat all class levels as associated. The class is, after all, something you chose for an optimized purpose.

Ah! If I were to do that it would completely nuke my build! Say it aint so...

[Inevitability]

Ah! If I were to do that it would completely nuke my build! Say it aint so...

All class levels are associated: says right so in the first post.

[Falontani]

All class levels are associated: says right so in the first post.

Yessir, it sure does and I failed reading comprehension. Going back to the drawing board, but I got this! I will submit a build!

[White Blade]

Submitted my build! I'm quite pleased with it.

[danielxcutter]

Do we have a specific reason for that part about associated classes besides what Sam said? Or at least a more detailed one?

I do suppose that it does prevent some wacky cheese, at least.

[The Viscount]

Do we have a specific reason for that part about associated classes besides what Sam said? Or at least a more detailed one?

I do suppose that it does prevent some wacky cheese, at least.

I mean it is part of the contest rules in the OP and has been from the beginning for a couple reasons. The first is, as mentioned, to reign in the insanity. If a monster could consider caster levels as nonassociated, it would give them an enormous edge in power. Many monsters that are brute have inflated HD for their CR, and caster classes would be considered nonassociated. A drowned is a CR 8 monster with 20HD. It could take 17 levels of wizard, and have an ending CR of 16 and a half. Not sure how rounding works here, but even if you round up, you've essentially added 20HD and drowned powers onto your wizard for free. You could get even stronger than this example with real work.

The second reason that all class levels are considered associated is that the guidelines for how to decide what class levels are associated are extremely vague and not helpful. The srd chunks the classes into three categories. Not all monsters fall that easily into these categories. In addition, the classes that are introduced after the players handbook aren't so easily lumped into one of three categories. Are incarnum users more like spellcasters than the rogue and ranger that use skills to their advantage? Where does binder go? The questions abound. If we used associated class level rules, then we would have to either make the judges decide whether a builds classes really deserve to be associated, or we flood the chair with questions about which classes are associated for what monsters. Neither one of these is good.

This option allows us to use all classes solely on their own merits of power and thematic linkage, so enables better variety in the builds.

[danielxcutter]

Ah, thank you Viscount.

Also side question to the chair: so bodyguards don't count for this comp?

[Inevitability]

Also side question to the chair: so bodyguards don't count for this comp?

Not per definition. If you somehow find a way to both be a bodyguard and fulfill the contest requirement of guarding a place (sentient location?), that's obviously fine though.

[Braininthejar2]

It will probably be horrible, but I'm actually tempted to give it a try for the first time.

[Braininthejar2]

a quick question.

For the purpose of the competition, which way of calculating saves do we use for multiclassing?

straight from the tables, or advance "strong" or "weak" save by an appropriate fraction value?

(in other words, would level 1 in 3 weak save classes give you a save of 0 or of 1 ) ?

[GrayDeath]

I dont think we ever used fractional save progression here.
Correct me if I am wrong.

[The Viscount]

I dont think we ever used fractional save progression here.
Correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct, we go straight from the table using integers.

[Telonius]

Build submitted! I'm glad to see a lot of interest in this round.

[PrismCat21]

I dont think we ever used fractional save progression here.

I did once. I thought it would be more fair to do so, and much easier to understand in my build. Since UA was allowed and other things from UA called out as being banned, I thought it was acceptable.
One judge agreed with me that it could be used. One judge said it couldn't be used.

This is another example of something I've brought up before, about certain unspoken rules that don't actually appear in the rules for the comp.
If we could get an official decision about it, and if banned, included with the rest of UA banned materials, I think that would be for the best.

[Thurbane]

Maybe a disclaimer similar to Iron Chef:

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

[PrismCat21]

As always. I approve of what Thurbane suggests

[jdizzlean]

I have a legality/build question I'd like to ask, is there someone i can PM it to and get an answer back from in the near future?

Kind of stuck in the build until I know the answer to this :(

[Inevitability]

I have a legality/build question I'd like to ask, is there someone i can PM it to and get an answer back from in the near future?

Kind of stuck in the build until I know the answer to this :(

I, your humble chairman, am the dedicated person to bother with such questions, for the simple reason that nothing you say will give me any more knowledge of who made what than I'll eventually have. Go ahead and PM me your question.

[jdizzlean]

2 msgs sent

[Braininthejar2]

Almost finished, though the more I look at it, the less I like it.

Well, "sucking at something is the first step to being kinda sorta ok at something"

Now what awaits is to learn how to use the gopher-damned tables.

[daremetoidareyo]

Almost finished, though the more I look at it, the less I like it.

Well, "sucking at something is the first step to being kinda sorta ok at something"

Now what awaits is to learn how to use the gopher-damned tables.

too left button of the table tools is the what-you-see-is-what-you-get button. If you build a table, with that button on, you can type right into it, or you can build a 1x1 table and paste your build from Google sheets or Excel into it.

[jdizzlean]

build done, just need to write the fluffy bits and we're good to go :)

[Deadline]

Inspiration has struck! I may even get it completed in time!

[3SecondCultist]

Well, I have a workable concept that I'm pretty excited about, we'll see how it turns out.