Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Ranged build?

[Anteros]

Yeah, but theres no point in having every spell in the game, and having spells from even 3 schools starts to require a huge memory tax. A couple schools in particular you also want to have maxed out if you plan on using them at all, like summoning.

Especially if youre making Lohse an enchanter, you really want to specialize in hydrosophist to get the most out of her heals and armor restoration. If you *must* add in a third school, add geomancy so she can restore physical armor too.

I mean, by this logic there's no point in putting points into anything but strength and warfare since that build will steamroll the entire game. The point is that it's fun to be versatile and have an answer for every situation, and the versatile build is still more than strong enough to get you through the game. You're only going to end up doing like 20% less damage than a specialized build, and you'll have far less down time between spells without relying on skin graft, and you don't have to worry about running into enemies immune to your gimmick. I don't use summoning or necromancy on my casters though. Both of those schools are boring (to me) and I find them more useful as slight dips rather than focusing on them.

To your second point, heals are completely worthless, so I don't see the point. Almost every single fight in the game is a race to see if you can remove the enemies' armor and stunlock them before they do the same to you. Once someone is taking HP damage they're out of the fight anyway.

[AsteriskAmp]

I prefer to have versatility. 5 points in every magic school lets you cast every spell in the game, and is fairly trivial to achieve. With gear, you even still have room to specialize. The only annoying thing is making sure you get all the spell books and having to put more points into memory, but I much prefer it overall.

You would have to spend so much in memory to make it worth it, not only that but some schools contradict each other or simply have no synergies (water vs pyro and geo overriding water terrains) or worse don't even hit mag armour(necro).

Variety isn't even useful because (outside of necro which hits phys) all of the magic damage is normally resisted simultaneously. Yes, Pyro has a significant mass of outright immunity, water has a REALLY annoying optional encounter that for some reason is immune to it and absorbs fire and poison, but the damage from focusing is SO MUCH BETTER and you can't really afford not to take it because you are already behind the curve just for using magic.

I had no idea magic damage was considered weak in this game. I honestly expected it to be the other way around, given how much more attention clearly went into magic compared to physical attacks. I kept Lohse as a pure mage because I assumed that having someone who can reliably deal magic damage is going to be important. Which is also why I tried to turn Beast into more of a close-range mage too. Still, after beating act 1, I can't really argue with it. Ifan and my character chew through enemies way faster.

The first game in the series had broken OP magic, there was no magic armour so they nerfed it underneath the ground. The dual armour system also means it's FAR better to focus the entire party in a single type of damage (and have the other type of skills if at all just as utility for yourself). There's no point in going through the two armours if you can just massacre something on one.

Anyway, Polymorph looks pretty good for my main character for combat buffs. Even if the wolf is a trap, I might as well use summoning on Ifan. I'll have to think about Beast and Lohse some more. Turning her into a backstabbing rogue is tempting, if physical damage is better. This kind of feels like Elder Scrolls games. Magic has good utility so you want everyone to learn some, but if you want to make things dead, physical weapons are better.

Part of the problem is how in reality a lot of the status are not that different. They all make the enemy skip his round, so there's not much difference between knocked down or stunned, and the dots are minuscule because of the numbers bloat. So physical actually has all the cc it needs with the amount of knock-down inducing abilities (namely knockdown arrow which has no cooldown, battering ram, battle stomp, overpower) and the broken combo of tendon slash + chicken claw for scoundrels.

If you go rogue make sure to properly go down warfare for the damage (crit damage is a multiplier of base damage so you want it high), Polymorph 1 or 3 for Chameleon Cloak/Chicken Cloak and then for Skin Graft (Restore all your cooldowns includes adrenaline). Two Weapon Fighting as a skill is a trap (it scales REALLY badly because it just reduces the off-hand penalty instead giving a damage bonus to both hands, but the fighting style is passable. Slash Tendons combos FANTASTICALLY with chicken claw, ignore chloroform, the robot chicken, gag order and terrifying cruelty (chloroform is REALLY bad CC, robot chicken is for summoners, gag order is only useful on mages but hits mag and terrifying cruelty is for comboing with tendons but they both hit different armours). If you have an archer in the party, marksman fang + sawtooth blade allow you to kill people without having to go through any armour (both go directly to HP), this skills can also initiated combat INSTANTLY skipping over even plot dialogue.

I mean, by this logic there's no point in putting points into anything but strength and warfare since that build will steamroll the entire game. The point is that it's fun to be versatile and have an answer for every situation, and the versatile build is still more than strong enough to get you through the game. You're only going to end up doing like 20% less damage than a specialized build, and you'll have far less down time between spells without relying on skin graft, and you don't have to worry about running into enemies immune to your gimmick. I don't use summoning or necromancy on my casters though. Both of those schools are boring (to me) and I find them more useful as slight dips rather than focusing on them.

To your second point, heals are completely worthless, so I don't see the point. Almost every single fight in the game is a race to see if you can remove the enemies' armor and stunlock them before they do the same to you. Once someone is taking HP damage they're out of the fight anyway.

Finessse and warfare is the most broken thing, with huntsman 5 for arrow storm. But in reality warfare and ANYTHING is broken, WARFARE ITSELF IS WHAT'S BROKEN. It's a no-brainer for anything doing phys and you need a one point investment on it if you are not a scoundrel or a pure buffer/summoner because of Executioner. If someone is having trouble with the game we are not going to recommend him something to up the difficulty and play something that has been badly designed and makes the experience harder. Almost everything has blanket resists, it's not THAT ONE ENEMY WITH FIRE RESIST, it's ALL ENEMIES have 20-30% res to ALL SCHOOLS and there's a few that are outright immune to fire.

Get you through the game is not an argument, you can get through the game with literally anything, it's just A MASSIVE PAIN. Versatility in this game is an illusion most of the time because the creative solutions aren't even in the ballpark of I arrow it to death on a knockdown loop or I smash it so hard their entire team just missed a turn. Surfaces and status simply don't scale. It's not like most spells are that different, aside from the added riders which require not only no mag armour but a surface as well. The comboing goes from a feature to a negative, because phys can get the same effects without having to combine things. You are doing much less damage than a specialized build, at least much less than 50%, you have to invest into memory MUCH MORE HEAVILY, not only that but you aren't really getting much of 3 of the schools unless you have the source spells from those at which point you have no points for anything but memory IN LONE WOLF, much less without it. Also factor in elemental affinity and that you can't stand on all terrains simultaneously to get the benefit for multiple schools (air terrain is A PAIN to get as it is already).

[factotum]

The dual armour system also means it's FAR better to focus the entire party in a single type of damage (and have the other type of skills if at all just as utility for yourself). There's no point in going through the two armours if you can just massacre something on one.

I disagree on this point. In almost any fight which has multiple opponents to deal with, some will be heavy on physical armour and some will be heavy on magic armour--so if you're dealing only magic or only physical you'll have difficulty with half the opponents in the fight. Having two magic and two physical characters allows your characters to concentrate on the ones who are weak to their particular skills.

[AsteriskAmp]

I disagree on this point. In almost any fight which has multiple opponents to deal with, some will be heavy on physical armour and some will be heavy on magic armour--so if you're dealing only magic or only physical you'll have difficulty with half the opponents in the fight. Having two magic and two physical characters allows your characters to concentrate on the ones who are weak to their particular skills.

This only works on paper, because phys is doing so much damage over mag it's only a problem when the mag users are the ones with mag armoured opossition. Even then being the same type of damage means that target switching due to an enemy suddenly being REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOT BE ALIVE BY THEIR TURN is possible, otherwise welp, you gotta chip through the other pool now as well for half the party. This is a MAJOR issue for things you REALLY want dead NOW. In most fights the difference between armour pools is irrelevant, mooks will die rather fast anyway. Most bosses on the other hand have equal amounts of both on top of resistance to all schools of magic, immunity to one and potions of resistance in case your mage was feeling particularly useful. To all of this add that enemies keep going till 0 so focus fire should be a priority and you get monotype being the clear winner.

[Morty]

If I end up making Lohse a rogue, I'll have to abandon my stubborn plan to keep my main character in light armor for aesthetic purposes. Since otherwise have three characters wearing the same kind. Though I'm not sure how far down the physical-only road I want to go. My main character could restrict himself entirely to Warfare.

[AsteriskAmp]

If I end up making Lohse a rogue, I'll have to abandon my stubborn plan to keep my main character in light armor for aesthetic purposes. Since otherwise have three characters wearing the same kind. Though I'm not sure how far down the physical-only road I want to go. My main character could restrict himself entirely to Warfare.

Make him an archer, add hunt5 to a war10 build and that's all you need. Or just give the rogue heavy armour, it doesn't impact anything relevant besides 2 or 4 points in STR which also help with carrying capacity. The rogue probably appreciates it more than melee what not with how backstabs require you to be behind enemy frontline.

[Morty]

My main character's staying with two-handed weapons. I like them. But giving Lohse heavy armour works too.

[Anteros]

You would have to spend so much in memory to make it worth it, not only that but some schools contradict each other or simply have no synergies (water vs pyro and geo overriding water terrains) or worse don't even hit mag armour(necro).

Variety isn't even useful because (outside of necro which hits phys) all of the magic damage is normally resisted simultaneously. Yes, Pyro has a significant mass of outright immunity, water has a REALLY annoying optional encounter that for some reason is immune to it and absorbs fire and poison, but the damage from focusing is SO MUCH BETTER and you can't really afford not to take it because you are already behind the curve just for using magic.

The first game in the series had broken OP magic, there was no magic armour so they nerfed it underneath the ground. The dual armour system also means it's FAR better to focus the entire party in a single type of damage (and have the other type of skills if at all just as utility for yourself). There's no point in going through the two armours if you can just massacre something on one.

Part of the problem is how in reality a lot of the status are not that different. They all make the enemy skip his round, so there's not much difference between knocked down or stunned, and the dots are minuscule because of the numbers bloat. So physical actually has all the cc it needs with the amount of knock-down inducing abilities (namely knockdown arrow which has no cooldown, battering ram, battle stomp, overpower) and the broken combo of tendon slash + chicken claw for scoundrels.

If you go rogue make sure to properly go down warfare for the damage (crit damage is a multiplier of base damage so you want it high), Polymorph 1 or 3 for Chameleon Cloak/Chicken Cloak and then for Skin Graft (Restore all your cooldowns includes adrenaline). Two Weapon Fighting as a skill is a trap (it scales REALLY badly because it just reduces the off-hand penalty instead giving a damage bonus to both hands, but the fighting style is passable. Slash Tendons combos FANTASTICALLY with chicken claw, ignore chloroform, the robot chicken, gag order and terrifying cruelty (chloroform is REALLY bad CC, robot chicken is for summoners, gag order is only useful on mages but hits mag and terrifying cruelty is for comboing with tendons but they both hit different armours). If you have an archer in the party, marksman fang + sawtooth blade allow you to kill people without having to go through any armour (both go directly to HP), this skills can also initiated combat INSTANTLY skipping over even plot dialogue.

Finessse and warfare is the most broken thing, with huntsman 5 for arrow storm. But in reality warfare and ANYTHING is broken, WARFARE ITSELF IS WHAT'S BROKEN. It's a no-brainer for anything doing phys and you need a one point investment on it if you are not a scoundrel or a pure buffer/summoner because of Executioner. If someone is having trouble with the game we are not going to recommend him something to up the difficulty and play something that has been badly designed and makes the experience harder. Almost everything has blanket resists, it's not THAT ONE ENEMY WITH FIRE RESIST, it's ALL ENEMIES have 20-30% res to ALL SCHOOLS and there's a few that are outright immune to fire.

Get you through the game is not an argument, you can get through the game with literally anything, it's just A MASSIVE PAIN. Versatility in this game is an illusion most of the time because the creative solutions aren't even in the ballpark of I arrow it to death on a knockdown loop or I smash it so hard their entire team just missed a turn. Surfaces and status simply don't scale. It's not like most spells are that different, aside from the added riders which require not only no mag armour but a surface as well. The comboing goes from a feature to a negative, because phys can get the same effects without having to combine things. You are doing much less damage than a specialized build, at least much less than 50%, you have to invest into memory MUCH MORE HEAVILY, not only that but you aren't really getting much of 3 of the schools unless you have the source spells from those at which point you have no points for anything but memory IN LONE WOLF, much less without it. Also factor in elemental affinity and that you can't stand on all terrains simultaneously to get the benefit for multiple schools (air terrain is A PAIN to get as it is already).

You can theory craft all day long, but plenty of people have done these builds and they work just fine. I don't know why you're overselling the difficulty of the game so much as if you have to optimize at all anyway.

Yes, building for magic and versatility means you have to actually think a little harder instead of brute forcing every fight in the game like warfare does. It's still perfectly viable though, and honestly still quite easy to do. The game is honestly pretty easy once you understand the system. It's not very balanced, and half the skills break the game. You just have to use the right skills in the right situation instead of spamming battle stomp over and over for 60 hours of gameplay. It's a much more fun and satisfying way to play. For me at least.

You also don't have to have literally every spell in the game on your bar at the same time. You wouldn't slot the bad ones anyway. The memory investment isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

[AsteriskAmp]

You can theory craft all day long, but plenty of people have done these builds and they work just fine. I don't know why you're overselling the difficulty of the game so much as if you have to optimize at all anyway.

Because if someone is having trouble with the game the answer is not to tell them how to make it even harder. Yes magic and random combos are viable, but using those should be under the knowledge that you are intentionally gimping yourself for whatever benefit you may find and knowing full well how exactly you are gimping yourself to at least have a chance of planning around that.

Yes, building for magic and versatility means you have to actually think a little harder instead of brute forcing every fight in the game like warfare does. It's still perfectly viable though, and honestly still quite easy to do. The game is honestly pretty easy once you understand the system. It's not very balanced, and half the skills break the game. You just have to use the right skills in the right situation instead of spamming battle stomp over and over for 60 hours of gameplay. It's a much more fun and satisfying way to play. For me at least.

You are making it sound like magic doens't end up as endless spam, you just take longer to kill things. There is no right tool for the right situation unless you want to pretend half of magic isn't literally pointless after act 1, there is only decreasingly smaller damage hammers with different areas an. Magic is indistinct from a low level run or finding ways to gimp yourself to do less damage, you just rely on a mix between abusing mechanics and using what you do have.

I want to like magic, the game premise of supposedly deep and rich magic system and interaction between surfaces and statuses was fantastic, until you hit the reality of how utterly pointless it really is.

You also don't have to have literally every spell in the game on your bar at the same time. You wouldn't slot the bad ones anyway. The memory investment isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

Then variety is pointless since you are not going to be using every school or even a portion of it to justify not maxing less of them, yes you can be changing them per combat but that's a pointless chore, under that idea might as well use the pyramids and the mirror to constantly change for every combat, would actually take even less time that the alternative just from the time loss of the reduced damage you are dealing.

Yes the game is easy once you finish it once and already know what you are doing, but there are ways to make a first run a pointlessly painful endeavor if you don't realize why everyone is saying everything is TECHNICALLY viable and yet your character's damage output is so absolutely disparate or in MP you are a drag to your party despite everyone saying how totally up to par that build would be.

[Anteros]

That's fine, but the answer to someone struggling is also not to tell them that all builds except the one you prefer are pointless. If someone wants the optimum party then fine. Tell them that anything but lone wolf with huntsman, and warfare is a waste of time. If someone simply wants to know what builds are powerful enough to get them through the game, then other suggestions are fine. Especially since you're grossly exaggerating how bad magic is.

The magic system is a LOT deeper than you're giving it credit for and gives a lot more utility than you're saying. My mage can saturate the battlefield with water, turn it all into oil to slow the enemy through their armor, turn that oil into armor for her own team, turn her entire party invisible, and automatically teleport to safety whenever she gets attacked. Your mage can throw a fireball that hits slightly harder than mine, but still does less damage than a melee attack. No wonder you think the magic system is so underwhelming when all you're using it for is straightforward damage.

[AsteriskAmp]

That's fine, but the answer to someone struggling is also not to tell them that all builds except the one you prefer are pointless. If someone wants the optimum party then fine. Tell them that anything but lone wolf with huntsman, and warfare is a waste of time. If someone simply wants to know what builds are powerful enough to get them through the game, then other suggestions are fine. Especially since you're grossly exaggerating how bad magic is.

I haven't said it's a waste of time at any point, I've said it's strictly suboptimal and mechanically you are fighting the game's very design at every corner, but besides the first time I haven't recommended it except when the concern was armour usage balance at which point (if you want light armour maybe making the melee an archer would fit better or the rogue a heavy armour) it was reasonable. I'm not grossly exaggerating how bad magic is, the game is actively hostile to magic users. That you can kinda clear it if you know what you are doing is not a point on its favour, the game has tons of exploits and abuses and just "setting the situation in your favour". The last is no exclusive to magic either. Saying THIS WORKS without mentioning how you are defining "works" in so far as everything is absorbing it's damage, has a ton of hidden gotchas and involves considerable effort in getting it just right and might end up in frustration in several sections is disingenuous.

The magic system is a LOT deeper than you're giving it credit for and gives a lot more utility than you're saying. My mage can saturate the battlefield with water, turn it all into oil to slow the enemy through their armor, turn that oil into armor for her own team, turn her entire party invisible, and automatically teleport to safety whenever she gets attacked. Your mage can throw a fireball that hits slightly harder than mine, but still does less damage than a melee attack. No wonder you think the magic system is so underwhelming when all you're using it for is straightforward damage.

Are you using mods for magic? Because turning the entire party invisible is nowhere in the base game and erratic whisp is hardly a merit when it's not teleport to safety but RANDOMLY TELEPORT AROUND WHEN HIT, half the time to the front line, half the time into a position that's actively harmful. And yeah paint the entire map like it's splatoon, now your own party is covered in oil, which is now also cursed because half the game curses surfaces by sneezing on them, which is now on fire as well which the enemy is immune to, but not your party. Or even if everything goes well, you've used 10AP to do a slow status which will be pointless when those enemies die in about a turn anyway, extremely minor damage if any and (not even acquire armour) restored armour to one character (not your party) if you also spent a point in warfare on top of geo for THAT other character to use Oily Carrapace. My mage can actually kill enemies before they do damage to the party making it unnecessary to restore their armour and won't randomly blink out of position when a random dog decided to walk over.

Playing around painting things and doing 4 spell long combos might be fun for the graphical effects but at the end of the day if you look at what you are doing it's just prolonging combat needlessly to prove that you can toy around. It's not unreasonable to expect carefully built combos and chains to actually be better than a single basic attack, sure use them if you like them, that's your prerogative but don't claim it's depth, it's pointless variety with little incentive of use.

[Morty]

Spoiler: A Web of Desire

Show

Just how harsh is the -2 constitution you get for this quest? I figure I shouldn't do it for my main character, as his constitution is already on the low side.

I must say I really do not enjoy the gear treadmill in this game. I have to swap out gear frequently and I drown in garbage that I subsequently barter for skill books. Buying weapons and armor has the usual problem of finding a much better piece half an hour later.

[AsteriskAmp]

Spoiler: A Web of Desire

Show

Just how harsh is the -2 constitution you get for this quest? I figure I shouldn't do it for my main character, as his constitution is already on the low side.

I must say I really do not enjoy the gear treadmill in this game. I have to swap out gear frequently and I drown in garbage that I subsequently barter for skill books. Buying weapons and armor has the usual problem of finding a much better piece half an hour later.

The one involving a woman in a basement can give you an item that makes the game actually impossible to lose, for that one, the 2 Con is basically a level of stats and not even close to painful compared to what you get for it. For the other stats or the gold it's either 0 sum (since you could raise the con on level up anyway if you wanted) or ... ABSOLUTELY NOT WORTH IT for 2k gold.

There is clear number's bloat. There's a mod for that called "Reduced Number Bloat", if you care about achievements (which any mod disables) you can use the "Re-enable achivements while mods are active" mod.

[Avilan the Grey]

I must say I really do not enjoy the gear treadmill in this game. I have to swap out gear frequently and I drown in garbage that I subsequently barter for skill books. Buying weapons and armor has the usual problem of finding a much better piece half an hour later.

Congratulations. You're playing a classic RPG.

[Morty]

The one involving a woman in a basement can give you an item that makes the game actually impossible to lose, for that one, the 2 Con is basically a level of stats and not even close to painful compared to what you get for it. For the other stats or the gold it's either 0 sum (since you could raise the con on level up anyway if you wanted) or ... ABSOLUTELY NOT WORTH IT for 2k gold.

Then I guess I'll pick the last option, which gives me the item.

There is clear number's bloat. There's a mod for that called "Reduced Number Bloat", if you care about achievements (which any mod disables) you can use the "Re-enable achivements while mods are active" mod.

Tempting, but I don't like using mods for a first playthrough of a game.

Congratulations. You're playing a classic RPG.

I can think of quite a few classic RPGs, by virtue of age or deliberate design, that don't have me juggle gear so much.

[GungHo]

Whats the deal with that cat anyway? Is it just there as a challenge to avoid getting it killed? Is there some story reason why theres a half dazed cat following you around?

I kept trying to figure out how to keep the damn thing alive because I thought it was Arhu from the first game or something, and was irritated that it's just an alternate teleport option.

[Morty]

I'm level 13 now, and I keep running into fights that outlevel me to some degree or the other. It's a bit annoying, particularly with how brutal the gear treadmill is. I've defeated Mordus, after initially bouncing off him, by levelling up twice and getting better gear. After which he went down like a chump.

Spoiler: Spoiler just in case - Blackpits, On the Ropes quest

Show

Now I'm struggling with the fighting Blackpits, during On the Ropes. The Magisters do down easily enough, and so do the oil Voidwoken. But then the fire ones show up, and set the entire place on fire. Cursed fire. I try to bless it to turn it into regular fire and put it off, or turn it into holy fire period... but they just turn it right back when they die or throw Curse. I did quite well one time, because what I think may be a glitch that made the holy fire stay on far too long. I'd killed all but two Primordial fire voidwoken... who murdered my melee fighters when they got close. Ifan, my archer, was down and I couldn't revive him without having him die immediately to the fire or ranged attacks.

I mean, enemies that make things worse for me when they die are cool. It introduces tactical variety that otherwise loses a bit to the numbers inflation. But this fight fight feels excessive.

[Avilan the Grey]

I NEED to get back to this. I love this game, but I started Fallout 4 over... Twice... and now I'm stuck in there..

[Keltest]

I'm level 13 now, and I keep running into fights that outlevel me to some degree or the other. It's a bit annoying, particularly with how brutal the gear treadmill is. I've defeated Mordus, after initially bouncing off him, by levelling up twice and getting better gear. After which he went down like a chump.

Spoiler: Spoiler just in case - Blackpits, On the Ropes quest

Show

Now I'm struggling with the fighting Blackpits, during On the Ropes. The Magisters do down easily enough, and so do the oil Voidwoken. But then the fire ones show up, and set the entire place on fire. Cursed fire. I try to bless it to turn it into regular fire and put it off, or turn it into holy fire period... but they just turn it right back when they die or throw Curse. I did quite well one time, because what I think may be a glitch that made the holy fire stay on far too long. I'd killed all but two Primordial fire voidwoken... who murdered my melee fighters when they got close. Ifan, my archer, was down and I couldn't revive him without having him die immediately to the fire or ranged attacks.

I mean, enemies that make things worse for me when they die are cool. It introduces tactical variety that otherwise loses a bit to the numbers inflation. But this fight fight feels excessive.

Any sort of water damage just absolutely demolishes the fire blobs, and there are spells that can remove the oil surface from the top of the platform so it wont be on fire when the fire dudes turn up. If you have a custom character, their source ability, the protective sphere, is also immeasurably helpful here.

[Morty]

Yeah, the one time I actually got close to victory I did use protective sphere and it saved my bacon. I tried removing the oil, but cursed water is also a pain... though perhaps less of one than cursed fire, so maybe I should try. And I can respec some of my people to do water damage, I suppose.

[Keltest]

Yeah, the one time I actually got close to victory I did use protective sphere and it saved my bacon. I tried removing the oil, but cursed water is also a pain... though perhaps less of one than cursed fire, so maybe I should try. And I can respec some of my people to do water damage, I suppose.

Its not just overriding it, though that's handy too in certain circumstances. Theres one geo skill that can absorb oil surfaces, and a trans skill that can flat out relocate the oil with an empty area somewhere else. If you change the surface, there are a few other skills that will work on the new surface. I know of blood and water for certain.

[factotum]

Yeah, the one time I actually got close to victory I did use protective sphere and it saved my bacon. I tried removing the oil, but cursed water is also a pain... though perhaps less of one than cursed fire, so maybe I should try. And I can respec some of my people to do water damage, I suppose.

I found the best way to deal with all the fire was...ignore it. So long as you're standing still it doesn't actually do much damage to you, especially if your magic armour is still up. What really hurts is trying to walk through it, so if you *do* need to reposition someone, try to use instant teleport-like abilities so you're not taking damage with every step.

[Morty]

On another note, I've been thinking about Lohse's rogue build, and... is it actually worth it to dual-wield daggers, or would I be better off giving her one dagger and investing in the one-handed skill? Dual-wielding comes with some hefty damage penalties.

[Anteros]

On another note, I've been thinking about Lohse's rogue build, and... is it actually worth it to dual-wield daggers, or would I be better off giving her one dagger and investing in the one-handed skill? Dual-wielding comes with some hefty damage penalties.

It doesn't do as much damage as using a bow or 2 hander, but dual wielding does do more than one handed. The dual wielding skill itself isn't very good though. You're better off maxing warfare and scoundrel.

[AsteriskAmp]

On another note, I've been thinking about Lohse's rogue build, and... is it actually worth it to dual-wield daggers, or would I be better off giving her one dagger and investing in the one-handed skill? Dual-wielding comes with some hefty damage penalties.

Before one handing or two-handing investments you should be looking at warfare. The warfare bonus is better than the wielding type specific ones because of the order in which added damage applies (warfare is a global multiplier which is why it's so broken). And you want Scoundrel (for crit mult), Aero (at least 1 point for dodging), Pyro (for haste) and any other skill really, before the wielding type ones if at all.

After you max warfare, dual-wield does more damage if you are comparing one handed dagger vs dual-wielded daggers (this is not true for other weapons but since you are calling it a rogue build I assume this is the only case that matters).

[Morty]

Shifting points from Ranged to Warfare does seem to raise the overall damage slightly for Ifan, likewise with taking them off Scoundrel, Polymorph and dual-wielding (though it's only one) for Lohse. Odd.

I ended up winning the fight by lowering the difficulty, since I decided I'd spent enough time trying to win it honestly. And now I'm off to find another fight I can actually win at level 13, since the Harbinger of Doom one doesn't seem to be it.

[Thomas Cardew]

If you go west out of town to deal with the dwarves and Mordus, everyone is much lower level.

Alternatively, the Harbinger of Doom fight IS winnable at 13 with some tactics.

Spoiler: Harbinger Fight

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You can get on top of the hill that is SE of Harbinger using tactical retreat or any of the teleports. Then use the pyramids to get everyone else up there. Buff one character with armor of frost and potions of fire resistance / resist all. That character aggros the harbinger from the edge of the cliff. The harbinger will then leap up to fight you but the rest of the trash can't get up. (One may teleport up to you but that's handle-able). Harbinger has a massive hitbox so arrow spray can almost single-handedly destroy its armor. Then you can just keep it chained knocked down till it's dead.

[AsteriskAmp]

The harbinger is level 15 if I recall correctly. You might have had a more reasonable time levelling up some more before facing it. Some of the minibosses in act 2 expect you to be at least their level. Huntsman is not for damage it's for the skills (Arrow Storm) and the height bonus.

Harbinger can be preemptively striked from the cliff that's linked to the merchant's area. A ballistic shot from there can easily half his HP and he can't teleport all the way up, only to the ledge just before the highest one so you have a round of bombarding him before he can even act.

[Morty]

If you go west out of town to deal with the dwarves and Mordus, everyone is much lower level.

Alternatively, the Harbinger of Doom fight IS winnable at 13 with some tactics.

Spoiler: Harbinger Fight

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You can get on top of the hill that is SE of Harbinger using tactical retreat or any of the teleports. Then use the pyramids to get everyone else up there. Buff one character with armor of frost and potions of fire resistance / resist all. That character aggros the harbinger from the edge of the cliff. The harbinger will then leap up to fight you but the rest of the trash can't get up. (One may teleport up to you but that's handle-able). Harbinger has a massive hitbox so arrow spray can almost single-handedly destroy its armor. Then you can just keep it chained knocked down till it's dead.

I have been west and dealt with Mordus, with some difficulty. Now I'm trying to do other quests and running out of options.

The harbinger is level 15 if I recall correctly. You might have had a more reasonable time levelling up some more before facing it. Some of the minibosses in act 2 expect you to be at least their level. Huntsman is not for damage it's for the skills (Arrow Storm) and the height bonus.

Harbinger can be preemptively striked from the cliff that's linked to the merchant's area. A ballistic shot from there can easily half his HP and he can't teleport all the way up, only to the ledge just before the highest one so you have a round of bombarding him before he can even act.

I'm... not sure how it can possibly knock half of its health. Ifan has 6 warfare and 5 huntsman, for the record. Does the distance stack that much?

[AsteriskAmp]

I have been west and dealt with Mordus, with some difficulty. Now I'm trying to do other quests and running out of options.

The island to the northwest has some pretty big clumps of XP and shouldn't be too hard if you abuse teleports.

I'm... not sure how it can possibly knock half of its health. Ifan has 6 warfare and 5 huntsman, for the record. Does the distance stack that much?

5% bonus damage per 1m of distance. Being at a height means you get both horizontal and vertical distance on your side, lets huntsman kick in and increases your range. Open with Ballistic Shot then Arrow Rain when he inevitably flies to the second highest ledge. The Harbinger is 30m away from the height at which you can shoot him. That's a grand total of 150% bonus damage on top of the huntsman hieght bonus.

Do keep in mind the area around the Harbinger has the decaying condition so healing will kill you.

Spoiler: The way to get to the ledge I'm talking about and the range to the Harbinger

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