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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by S@tanicoaldo View Post
    People assume loss is devastating sure it's bad but you can survive it, that's the greatest human virtue adaptability. You get used to it.

    That's why I like sandman take on a immortal man:
    <snip>

    The argument is that when a immortal see all his loved ones die and he doesn't, he gives up the idea of immortality, people who asusme that in my view are ignoring human adaptability.

    People do lose loved ones, they do lose everyhting they had, and they move on, why would immortals be any different?

    Besides as the comic shows an immortal can see things change and evolve, tecnology and all the comfort they bring, can you iamgine the tecnology that is going to come and make life more awesome? You can't because it's not here but if you were immortal you could for exemple go to other planets somethign we won't be able to do.

    So when I see a immortal get all emo and stuff I don't buy it, I belive immortality brings tragic situations and a lot of angst but not in the way the do in most media.
    This is all interesting, but it is also irrelevant to the position I posted. It is also a change of subject from the original topic. The question isn't "Could you survive being forever young?" It is "Would [you] be willing to be forever young?"

    My life has been shaped around friends and family who have been part of my life for a vast majority of it. My wife is a major part of nearly my entire life. My Mom has been part of my life for the 62 years I've lived. My Dad was an active mentor for my first 52 years, which I assume will be the majority of my life, and certainly the vast majority of the most active part of my life. Chris and Glen have been friends for my entire adult life, and both stood up for me at my wedding. Glen passed away last year, but is still what I consider a major influence on pretty much my entire life. I knew Brian from age 12 until his death 2 years ago; he introduced me to Tolkien and I introduced him to D&D.

    These people and others are a major part of the majority of my life. That's what I don't want to give up.

    Yes, I can survive it; yes, I can adapt; yes, I can get used to it. And I'm not "ignoring human adaptability". That's not my point. A life with people who are part of a huge part of it is different from a life in which the people you know change over and over. [In my first 9 years, I lived in five different cities. Switching to a new life with new people can be fun, exhilarating, and exciting. But it is not as satisfying as a life with a clear, continuing direction, plot, and character. I also generally prefer novels to short stories, even from the same author.]

    Both are survivable. Both can be satisfying. Both can be good - even great.

    But I prefer one of them over the other. "Would [I] be willing to be forever young?" No, not really. Endings aren't inherently bad, and continuation isn't inherently good. I like the shape of my life.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    This is all interesting, but it is also irrelevant to the position I posted. It is also a change of subject from the original topic. The question isn't "Could you survive being forever young?" It is "Would [you] be willing to be forever young?"

    My life has been shaped around friends and family who have been part of my life for a vast majority of it. My wife is a major part of nearly my entire life. My Mom has been part of my life for the 62 years I've lived. My Dad was an active mentor for my first 52 years, which I assume will be the majority of my life, and certainly the vast majority of the most active part of my life. Chris and Glen have been friends for my entire adult life, and both stood up for me at my wedding. Glen passed away last year, but is still what I consider a major influence on pretty much my entire life. I knew Brian from age 12 until his death 2 years ago; he introduced me to Tolkien and I introduced him to D&D.

    These people and others are a major part of the majority of my life. That's what I don't want to give up.

    Yes, I can survive it; yes, I can adapt; yes, I can get used to it. And I'm not "ignoring human adaptability". That's not my point. A life with people who are part of a huge part of it is different from a life in which the people you know change over and over. [In my first 9 years, I lived in five different cities. Switching to a new life with new people can be fun, exhilarating, and exciting. But it is not as satisfying as a life with a clear, continuing direction, plot, and character. I also generally prefer novels to short stories, even from the same author.]

    Both are survivable. Both can be satisfying. Both can be good - even great.

    But I prefer one of them over the other. "Would [I] be willing to be forever young?" No, not really. Endings aren't inherently bad, and continuation isn't inherently good. I like the shape of my life.
    Oh, absolutely I agree, i think getting old and death are much more elegant then the alternative despite what everyone thinks.

    I'm just saying that loss and death of loved ones is not something that would necessarily make someone give up immortality.
    Last edited by S@tanicoaldo; 2018-05-17 at 11:20 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    I'd like to live forever even if I didn't get to be young. If the Golden Throne were an option I'd take it.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    While true immortality is a curse that I would not wish upon anyone, this is much better. Eternal youth with the ability to kill myself at any time should life grow dull is a pretty sweet deal. I'd take it.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Very important question: Can I die? Or atleast put myself into a Coma where I can't think.
    Other Very Important Question: How young do you mean?

    If I could be forever 18 but i could still die/coma I'd go for it. There's a lot to experience that normally I wouldn't be able to do in my life time. But if I can't die/coma then no. I know that one day after I've lived Long enough and seen enough friends die, that Beretta will be in my hand pointed at my head. (Figuratively)
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    I think 22-25 is the peak not 18, unless you want to eternally deal with zits, hormones and awkwardness.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poiuytrewq View Post
    I think 22-25 is the peak not 18, unless you want to eternally deal with zits, hormones and awkwardness.

    Eh, most of those years were lousy too, except for when I was 24 and me and my future (and current) wife lived together on unemployment insurance (mostly hers) for income.

    It was glorious

    I've missed it for 25 years.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Forever young is the good kind of immortality anyway. The main disadvantage immortality would have is if you kept aging, and even then it might all cancel itself out because you might become too demented to appreciate your infirmity
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    People keep questioning if I'm old enough to drink. Damn them all. Forever Young is not as good as you would think.

    Infinite Lifespan is Independent from Forever Young.
    Forever Young is Independent from Indestructible.
    Indestructible is Independent from Undying.

    That's the four aspect to complete Immortality.
    Infinite Lifespan (Eternal Life)
    Forever Young (Eternal Youth)
    Indestructible
    Undying
    Last edited by HouseRules; 2018-06-16 at 06:26 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicHobbit View Post
    No. Think of this: if you were forever young, and never died of old age, you could live forever. But none if your friends and family could. You would live to see the deaths of everybody you love. You would see the deaths of everybody you love's children. On and on. Witnessing death after death. You would have infinite life, but also see infinite funerals. And when the time finally comes, you would die from the end of Earth. Or not, depending on what you believe. The point is, it would be depressing to see your brother have a kid, but know you'll see your brother, your nephew, and youe great nephew die, as well as everybody descended from your great nephew, or to meet the perfect soul mate for you, then watch as they age and die while you stay young. I couldn't handle that. I just couldn't handle seeing everyone I love or have ever loved die.
    Once you run out of immediate family (+ grandparents, grandchildren, and first cousins) I don't think any of this continues to be relevant. All life on earth is ultimately descended from a single common ancestor, yet the vast majority of deaths of specific individual organisms don't bother us.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Half Elves like me age half the speed of normal humans, but our Elven parents age one-tenth the rate of humans. We are not truly Forever Young, but compared to Humans, they would suggest that we are Forever Young.
    Last edited by HouseRules; 2018-06-16 at 08:31 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    I'm not sure
    It could be boring, forever lasts so long

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Forever young seems like it has no downsides. The only reason people ever get o;d is because the alternative is the one thing that's worse. By being forever young you could avoid both.

    EDIT:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ_M0Z1Janc
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2018-07-02 at 01:31 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Probably, I would like not to grow old, not to see for many years, how my body becomes covered with wrinkles.

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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    I'd say yes, with 3 caveats (I skipped ahead after the first page; the first 2 of these were covered on the first page, but not #3):

    1) I get to choose how "young" I am. I'm 56 now; I'm not sure that keeping my body from aging any more from this point is worth it. OTOH, I wouldn't want to be stuck in my 6 year old body, either. I'd want to keep my body roughly as it was sometime in my 20s.

    2) I can still change--work out and get more fit, learn new things, develop new skills, etc.

    3) Very Important! I still get to retire with full benefits when I hit age 65 chronologically--eternal youth would be a waste if it's coupled with eternal work.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    I'd say yes, with 3 caveats (I skipped ahead after the first page; the first 2 of these were covered on the first page, but not #3):

    1) I get to choose how "young" I am. I'm 56 now; I'm not sure that keeping my body from aging any more from this point is worth it. OTOH, I wouldn't want to be stuck in my 6 year old body, either. I'd want to keep my body roughly as it was sometime in my 20s.
    Even you stayed physically 56, you'd still have the advantage of being, you know, alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    3) Very Important! I still get to retire with full benefits when I hit age 65 chronologically--eternal youth would be a waste if it's coupled with eternal work.
    You have a theoretically infinite life. Even without the benefits, eventually you will have accumulated enough wealth to retire comfortably for a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoLegsArmchair View Post
    You have a theoretically infinite life. Even without the benefits, eventually you will have accumulated enough wealth to retire comfortably for a time.
    The problem is that right now, I'm not accumulating wealth, I'm just getting further into debt. If I was 65, I could retire and actually draw more in Social Security benefits than what I take home right now.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
    If a new form of technology was created that allowed you to be forever young and stop aging would you do it?

    If so why? If not... Why not?
    Yes I would, because I'd rather exist than not exist.

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    The problem is that right now, I'm not accumulating wealth
    That is an issue with just eternal youth. With full immortality on the other hand you could live with no expenses and dump all your money in the bank for a really long time to accumulate interest
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    That is an issue with just eternal youth. With full immortality on the other hand you could live with no expenses and dump all your money in the bank for a really long time to accumulate interest
    But banks fail. The oldest bank currently in existence is only a few hundred years old. And there have been countless banks that have failed in that period. If you put all your money in the bank, and you live forever, that money will eventually evaporate or become valueless.
    http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/...ound-interest/
    http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2010/...y-and-the-law/

    Those are probably the most interesting articles I've seen on the subject.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    I hated my teen years, suffered through my 20s and am hoping my 30s are actually enjoyable. If this decade sucks too I'm definitely on the "no" side.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    another interesting response. That last one also in theory also depends on pure eternal youth, as with full immortality he could blow most of the relevant bummers off
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    That is an issue with just eternal youth. With full immortality on the other hand you could live with no expenses and dump all your money in the bank for a really long time to accumulate interest
    Beyond what AMFV said, you'd have to be on top of that money to ensure that your interest is actually above inflation rate for that currency. And keep an eye out to bail out if the currency starts to fail. Even in the short term, currencies and banks are not that stable. They are if you aren't planning to live much more than a century, but for an immortal, it would be a full time job to keep the money going.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-09-17 at 09:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Beyond what AMFV said, you'd have to be on top of that money to ensure that your interest is actually above inflation rate for that currency. And keep an eye out to bail out if the currency starts to fail. Even in the short term, currencies and banks are not that stable. They are if you aren't planning to live much more than a century, but for an immortal, it would be a full time job to keep the money going.

    Grey Wolf
    Yeah imagine being banker-vampire when Rome collapsed. "There goes my unlife savings!"

    Also people would get wise fast. "This account has been open for three hundred years without paying gift or estate taxes and we are seizing it."

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Yeah imagine being banker-vampire when Rome collapsed. "There goes my unlife savings!"

    Also people would get wise fast. "This account has been open for three hundred years without paying gift or estate taxes and we are seizing it."
    I am sure there are ways around it - establish a fund for a corporation (not unlike, say, the Nobel account that pays for the awards), and then set up a fund trust around it, and the like. You'd still need to pay taxes, keep an eye on the economy, not to mention watch whomever runs the trust (see: President Carter). It would not be as easy as "put all the money in the bank and go live under a bridge for a couple hundred years, and thus become rich" as was originally suggested.

    (and that is without even going into how bad it would be to attempt to live without expenses for any amount of time)

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    You could occasionally take it out of the bank and put most of it into a different bank, after converting the remainder to a non-perishable commodity
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2018-09-17 at 11:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    another interesting response. That last one also in theory also depends on pure eternal youth, as with full immortality he could blow most of the relevant bummers off
    Well if you're living without any expenses, like eating or good living environments anyway why do you need money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Beyond what AMFV said, you'd have to be on top of that money to ensure that your interest is actually above inflation rate for that currency. And keep an eye out to bail out if the currency starts to fail. Even in the short term, currencies and banks are not that stable. They are if you aren't planning to live much more than a century, but for an immortal, it would be a full time job to keep the money going.

    Grey Wolf
    And a job that would be constantly (to a perspective of an immortal) changing, banks are very different than they were before, tax law has changed drastically, inheritance laws have drastically changed, it would be a serious headache to keep track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    You could occasionally take it out of the bank and put most of it into a different bank, after converting the remainder to a non-perishable commodity
    Which is good when that commodity doesn't collapse in value, which over a long enough time-scale many of them would. And provided you have the ability to liquidate those items without questions being asked.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    And a job that would be constantly (to a perspective of an immortal) changing, banks are very different than they were before, tax law has changed drastically, inheritance laws have drastically changed, it would be a serious headache to keep track.
    This happens often enough that it is a headache even to my non-immortal head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    You could occasionally take it out of the bank and put most of it into a different bank, after converting the remainder to a non-perishable commodity
    We've already established that that woulnd't actually help the money increase.

    Also, to an immortal there is no such thing as a non-perishable commodity. No, not even gold, cowry shells or rais (although this last one comes closest, since it established very early on conceptual ownership). And even if you were OK with long-term perishable investment, changing back and forth would eat into what little value you would eke out at the margins.

    Let me put it another way: no-one ever has got rich by putting money in a bank. You put money in a bank to protect it and convenience, not grow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
    If a new form of technology was created that allowed you to be forever young and stop aging would you do it?

    If so why? If not... Why not?

    Sure. Why not? Even if it was full-on "can't die" immortality, yeah, I'd push that button.

    Mid twenties would be ideal. Around about 25 you start to have hit all the "old enough to do this" criteria, and being younger might be awkward. Can you imagine looking too young to have booze forever? That's a bit much. Still, I'd trade off a fair bit here in return for youthful immortality. That's a huge win.

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    Default Re: Would be willing to be forever young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post

    Also, to an immortal there is no such thing as a non-perishable commodity. No, not even gold, cowry shells or rais (although this last one comes closest, since it established very early on conceptual ownership). And even if you were OK with long-term perishable investment, changing back and forth would eat into what little value you would eke out at the margins.
    My understanding was that we are not talking about immortality or eternity, just non-aging. People who don't age would still die from accidents etc. Their life expectancy may be three or four times that of an ordinary human (anyone keen to work it out?), but would be much briefer than the time it takes for gold to perish.

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