Results 1 to 19 of 19
Thread: Expertise Feats
-
2018-02-10, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Expertise Feats
If you give versatile expertise as a bonus feat, what other expertise feats are still worth taking, and how would you rate them?
-
2018-02-10, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Expertise Feats
Staff (or potentially Mighty Crusader)- not giving up OAs on ranged/area attacks is worth a feat.
Light Blade for the damage, but only later- after Weapon Focus, for example.
Flail for the whole slide/prone package.
-
2018-02-10, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
Pretty much any secondary benefit from an Expertise will rely on your power/feat/equipment choices, and most of them can be quite handy in the right situation. Staff Expertise happens to work for more situations, so that's the top of the heap. I'd consider Tome the best of the more specific ones -- well, maybe right after Flail, but certainly before Light Blade. War Wizard, Orb, Bludgeon and Devout Protector can also be strong.
IMO the only Expertises with always-weak secondary benefits are Axe, Heavy Blade, Holy Symbol and Polearm.
-
2018-02-11, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
Re: Expertise Feats
Interested in giving 4e D&D a shot? All players, new and old, are welcome to join us over at the Guild Living Campaign on Roll20. Feel free to post on the thread or PM me for more information.
You can also follow me on Youtube. I am currently working on a series of videos aimed at helping Dungeon Masters from all editions work at improving the craft that is being a DM with my series Beg Borrow and Steal.
-
2018-02-16, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Expertise Feats
Are you considering the axe benefit weak because it can be replaced by a brutal weapon? Personally I thought it was a pretty cool bonus, but I have not played too extensively.
for ref:
Axe Expertise
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls you make with an axe. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
Also, when rolling damage for a weapon attack you make with an axe, you can reroll one damage die that results in a 1, but you must use the second result.
-
2018-02-16, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Expertise Feats
It's weaker than Brutal 1, and Brutal 1 is already not that strong.
Brutal 1 effectively eliminates the potential of rolling a 1, which has a net benefit of adding +0.5 damage per [W]. That's significantly weaker than Weapon Focus most of the time, and Weapon Focus is only middling in power level.
Axe Expertise replaces a 1 with an average die roll. The math gets a little wonky and you get slightly different results for differently sized die, but on a d10 you gain +0.45 damage per [W] and on a d12 you gain +0.458 damage per [W].Last edited by tiornys; 2018-02-16 at 10:26 PM.
-
2018-02-16, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
No, just because it doesn't add much damage. Say you have a d10 weapon like a battleaxe. Using 2[W] powers, you have a 19% chance of the feat triggering at all, and it would improve your damage by an average of 4.5. That's a 0.855 damage-per-hit improvement. The feat will be more impressive with higher-[W] powers, high crit weapons and higher die types, sure ... but how much game time will you be swinging a d12 high-crit axe without the Brutal quality while using 3[W] or 4[W] powers? Not much.
I also lean away from axes in general because I prefer a +3 proficiency bonus to hit.
-
2018-02-17, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Expertise Feats
Yeah, point taken. You guys have convinced me.
-
2018-02-17, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
Should also be noted that Gouge and Executioner's Axe already have brutal to begin with.
-
2018-02-20, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
I gotta admit, I do love a gouge, with its minimum 4 damage per [W]. I particularly like a gouge of carnage so that rolling at least one '6' adds another slice of pain to the hurtwich.
-
2018-02-20, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
Re: Expertise Feats
Interested in giving 4e D&D a shot? All players, new and old, are welcome to join us over at the Guild Living Campaign on Roll20. Feel free to post on the thread or PM me for more information.
You can also follow me on Youtube. I am currently working on a series of videos aimed at helping Dungeon Masters from all editions work at improving the craft that is being a DM with my series Beg Borrow and Steal.
-
2018-02-26, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
-
2018-02-26, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Shameland (4e Forums)
Re: Expertise Feats
That gets kind of weird.
Carnage reads "When you roll the maximum result on at least one of this weapon's damage dice"; "damage dice" is important here as is "maximum result". The *damage dice* for the gouge is 2d6, not 1d6. As such, I would only allow the carnage effect to trigger when you roll 2 6s on a pair (and, if you're running it in game, make sure the pairs are the same color to ensure that you don't mix pairs accidentally) because that's the maximum result of that specific damage die. If anything, a gouge would be *worse* for carnage because it's rolling multiple dice, which decreases the chances of getting a "maximum result" on any single "weapon damage die" (even if that die is technically multiple dice).
-
2018-02-26, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Expertise Feats
No, [W] is 2d6(B2), but the damage dice are actual dice rolled, not [W]s.
Is why 2d6B1 rerolls any 1 that is rolled, not only if 2d6 adds to 1.
-
2018-02-26, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Shameland (4e Forums)
Re: Expertise Feats
If you want to get semantic, the text of brutal states "When rolling the weapon's damage, reroll any die that displays a value equal to or lower than the brutal value given for the weapon".
"Any die" is different than "weapon's damage dice". If the text for carnage stated "When you roll the maximum result on at least one die when rolling damage for this weapon", then the individual die (the d6s) rolled as part of the 2d6 weapon damage die for the scourge would trigger it. However, whenever a multiple-dice damage die is referred to, it's still always referred to as a single weapon damage die, which means that carnage, as written, would still require a maximum result on that multiple-dice weapon damage die (since the two dice comprise a single damage die) in order to trigger the effect.
This is one of those places where I can see both interpretations being potentially valid depending upon how the GM reads it. If there's some errata that for this, I'd be interested to see it though.
-
2018-02-27, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
Huh, interesting. LSNED. The rules are solidly in favor of your interpretation. So a carrikal would be the best carnage weapon for a 1-in-6 chance of triggering per [W] but higher damage, then there are several standard d6 weapons, then khopesh for a 1-in-7 chance.
Seems a bit counterintuitive. A handaxe or light mace is not what I'd expect for something called "carnage". I'll continue to apply it incorrectly for my own games, but won't assume it from any DM I play under.
-
2018-03-02, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: Expertise Feats
Staff Expertise - OA immunity and reach
Crossbow expertise/Wand expertise - ignore partial and superior cover
Flail Expertise - knock prone instead of sliding with a flail
Possibly Holy Symbol Expertise to prevent granting combat advantage
Possibly Tome Expertise for conjuration/summoning builds
Possibly totem expertise (ignore partial concealment and cover)
Especially for a Sorcerer War Wizard's Expertise (-5 to hit allies with AoE attacks)
For the right build Orb Expertise (+1 to push); Hammer expertise is harder but plausibleCurrently in playtesting, now with optional rules for a cover based sci-fi shooter.
Games for Harry Potter, the Hunger Games, and Silver Age Marvel. Skins for The Gorgon, the Deep One, the Kitsune, the Banshee, and the Mad Scientist
-
2018-03-02, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Expertise Feats
However, whenever a multiple-dice damage die is referred to, it's still always referred to as a single weapon damage die
That's significantly weaker than Weapon Focus most of the time, and Weapon Focus is only middling in power level.
Toss in 6 enhance, 6 item, 5 shard and 10 vulnerability and we are talking +81 static damage.
If they manage 3 taps/round with 1d8 powers and 65% accuracy that is 166.725 DPR, or 5.05 normalized, or 0.6 enemies/round dead.
2.0 normalized is an acceptable striker level.
In short, if every one of your feats is as good as weapon focus, you do pretty darn good. Weapon Focus's problem is that it is *boring*.
-
2018-03-02, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Expertise Feats
Last edited by Dimers; 2018-03-02 at 11:01 PM.