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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    Not really. A lock where one piece is 4 mana and both pieces are reasonably vulnerable to common hate isn't... great.

    Feel free to jam it in Commander, but it's not going to be super competitive.
    You also really need to cast the needle before the storm to actually lock people.
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  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Douglas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Went ahead and built a singleton dino deck, how's it look? Haven't spent the wildcards to make it in Arena yet, so I can adjust for feedback without losing anything.

    //Creatures (24):
    1 Atzocan Seer
    1 Forerunner of the Empire
    1 Frilled Deathspitter
    1 Knight of the Stampede
    1 Needletooth Raptor
    1 Polyraptor
    1 Raging Regisaur
    1 Silverclad Ferocidons
    1 Trapjaw Tyrant
    1 Zacama, Primal Calamity
    1 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
    1 Snapping Sailback
    1 Thundering Spineback
    1 Kinjalli's Caller
    1 Otepec Huntmaster
    1 Raging Swordtooth
    1 Ranging Raptors
    1 Raptor Hatchling
    1 Regisaur Alpha
    1 Ripjaw Raptor
    1 Bellowing Aegisaur
    1 Carnage Tyrant
    1 Drover of the Mighty
    1 Gishath, Sun's Avatar

    //Planeswalkers (2):
    1 Huatli, Radiant Champion
    1 Huatli, Warrior Poet

    //Non-creature Spells (14):
    1 Song of Freyalise
    1 Path of Mettle
    1 Radiant Destiny
    1 Reckless Rage
    1 Shake the Foundations
    1 Thunderherd Migration
    1 Vanquisher's Banner
    1 Pillar of Origins
    1 Rile
    1 Savage Stomp
    1 Colossal Majesty
    1 Dragon's Hoard
    1 Deafening Clarion
    1 Chromatic Lantern

    //Lands (20):
    1 Clifftop Retreat
    1 Evolving Wilds
    1 Sunpetal Grove
    1 Unclaimed Territory
    1 Unknown Shores
    1 Rootbound Crag
    1 Stone Quarry
    1 Timber Gorge
    1 Tranquil Expanse
    1 Plains
    2 Mountain
    3 Forest
    1 Boros Guildgate
    1 Guildmages' Forum
    1 Sacred Foundry
    1 Selesnya Guildgate
    1 Temple Garden
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  3. - Top - End - #573
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I think there is just one thing better than forcing a Lich's Mastery player to exile his whole deck in Arena. That would be to force a smug player IRL to do the same. :)
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  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I also run WRG dinos in Singleton! Etalli, Primal Storm is really fun in that. I also run the WR Huatli, but not the WG Huatli; I think Vivien might be better? Priest of the Wakening Sun is rad in general, and I run Treasure Map and Thaumatic Compass to help keep up the gas and because Spires of Orazca is really good at dealing with other peoples' scary bomb creatures.
    Avatar by araveugnitsuga.

  5. - Top - End - #575
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Apparently, 100% full-bore Teferi Control - the kind with only 2 or 3 actual threats in the entire deck - is something people are playing in singleton. In both of my last 2 singleton entries, that's what gave me my second loss.
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  6. - Top - End - #576
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Is there something wrong with me when I say I enjoy Jeskai/Azorius Control? People kinda demonize Teferi but ironically I come from Hearthstone which is supposedly simpler in design, but that is also a game where control mirrors can take up to 30+ minutes, and that is with the client doing all the math.

    Comparatively a control mirror in MTG is quite enjoyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
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  7. - Top - End - #577
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    An endless succession of counterspells, removal, and board sweepers negating everything I do is annoying but a normal part of the game. An occasional game that takes a very long time because of how evenly matched the players are is often quite fun.

    Intentionally designing a deck to routinely take five times as long as a typical game to finish because you have to draw literally half the deck to have even a reasonable chance of being able to try to actually finish the game is what I hate about how Jeskai Control is commonly done right now.

    Please, for the sake of reasonable play time, design your deck to expect to draw at least one card that is theoretically capable of winning, rather than not losing, within the first 10 turns. Sure, load up with an abundance of counters, removal, and board sweepers, but if it's turn 15 and you still haven't shown even a single card that could win the game if I sat there and did nothing, I will be seriously annoyed with you.
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  8. - Top - End - #578
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    An endless succession of counterspells, removal, and board sweepers negating everything I do is annoying but a normal part of the game. An occasional game that takes a very long time because of how evenly matched the players are is often quite fun.

    Intentionally designing a deck to routinely take five times as long as a typical game to finish because you have to draw literally half the deck to have even a reasonable chance of being able to try to actually finish the game is what I hate about how Jeskai Control is commonly done right now.

    Please, for the sake of reasonable play time, design your deck to expect to draw at least one card that is theoretically capable of winning, rather than not losing, within the first 10 turns. Sure, load up with an abundance of counters, removal, and board sweepers, but if it's turn 15 and you still haven't shown even a single card that could win the game if I sat there and did nothing, I will be seriously annoyed with you.
    Don't ever play Old School-93/94. The Deck is quite literally a pile of counterspells, ramp and card draw with only a couple kill spells (The Abyss is a broken card) and then a single Serra Angel. Or not, there are versions that just wait for both decks to get low on cards and then braingeyser their opponents. It is the best deck in the format and is Guaranteed to turn any game into a long, dull slog.

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Super slow control decks in MTGA are kinda annoying because there's no time limit. I mean, control is a necessary part of a healthy format, it just feels annoying to have to invest so much time in a single game compared to any other deck.

    You can concede early, but honestly, it's hard to tell if you're losing or not against that kind of deck until they resolve a win condition or a teferi ult. I've had games against control where I was notably behind in cards, but they just didn't have quite enough counters in hand and I managed to get a thread on the board for the two or three turns it took to finish them off. Or I've had games where I hammer them down to 4 life but then they stabilize and I never get another opening. So it's a big time investment even if you are willing to concede when they lock you down. Plus, in BO3 you want to see as much of their deck as possible so that you're better prepared for the rematch.

    ...Personally, I have more fun against control than I do against most aggro decks, but it sucks when I'm trying to grind. Definitely wouldn't have the patience to play it.
    Avatar by araveugnitsuga.

  10. - Top - End - #580
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I don't really get the attitude though. If you go into a card game with the intent of "being finished as quickly as possible", isn't that the kind of attitude that defines the last two decades - and somewhat ruins slower paced forms of entertainment?

    Speaking of paper, which I haven't played in ages, being a "bad winner" is surely a large part of it. I can revel in my powerful turns in the online client. However I would respect my opponent by doing my turns as efficiently and quickly as possible in paper.

    So if you want to spend your time on a quick game, maybe pick up other forms of entertainment, such as videogames, and don't expect a BO3 of Magic to be done in under 10 minutes? I know it can be hard, I struggle with it too at times, and I hate Hearthstone in its current state for its control mirrors taking up to 40 minutes. But that is a game designed around a client and some form of randomization, and not a game designed around being easily played in paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
    Brimaz of Oreskos - Tabaxi Druid/Life Cleric - Labyrinth of Zaaar the Mad
    Ferrin - Human Swashbuckler - Shackles of Blood

  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    I don't really get the attitude though. If you go into a card game with the intent of "being finished as quickly as possible", isn't that the kind of attitude that defines the last two decades - and somewhat ruins slower paced forms of entertainment?
    It's less a matter of being finished as quickly as possible and more a matter of knowing that there's actually something that's going to finish. If I lose to a red deck in 3 turns, that's because red plays quick. If I play against a blue deck that drops a Snapcaster turn 3 and then takes ten turns pecking me to death, that's a long game but I have something to interact with or to try and stop. If I'm playing against a blue deck that's running 1 creature, 39 counter spells, and 20 lands then it's just a test of my patience, especially if that creature doesn't come out until turn 20 or 30. Especially in a computer format where time has to be taken for the two systems to communicate and roll through each phase, compared to the simple, "Draw, go" of a table top game.

    Its the same problem people have with infinite turn decks in Commander. Combos are not bad. Infinite combos like Splinter Twin are not bad, because they can be short cutted. Infinite combos that still require you to play out an endless string of non-repeating actions are a reason for me to just scoop and find someone else to play with, because Solitaire is meant to be a one player game.
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  12. - Top - End - #582
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Okay, so it is not the color combo in question and not even control-ish decks, but decks that take entirely too long. Got it.

    Makes me wonder though how you feel about mill: https://aetherhub.com/Deck/Public?id=37178
    These decks are pretty interesting to me, as at least with Golgari and Izzet Drakes, you have to be careful as you make the enemy's Izoni stronger. I've lost two games to a sudden 12/12 Golgari Raiders too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
    Brimaz of Oreskos - Tabaxi Druid/Life Cleric - Labyrinth of Zaaar the Mad
    Ferrin - Human Swashbuckler - Shackles of Blood

  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Okay, so it is not the color combo in question and not even control-ish decks, but decks that take entirely too long. Got it.

    Makes me wonder though how you feel about mill: https://aetherhub.com/Deck/Public?id=37178
    These decks are pretty interesting to me, as at least with Golgari and Izzet Drakes, you have to be careful as you make the enemy's Izoni stronger. I've lost two games to a sudden 12/12 Golgari Raiders too.
    Mill itself isn't bad, though this deck looks like a particularly grindy version. In this case, though, with all the Guild Gates, conditional draw, and the fact you only really have ten answers in the deck, it seems like the deck itself is too slow for what it wants to do, rather than the games it plays. I's also mill based, so if I can stick a threat of my own to the board then its still my clock against yours.
    Basilisk 6
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    I'm not evil. My morals just aren't the same as society's.

    On a one man quest to beat the Star Wars Universe, using nothing but simple, plain, ordinary logic. Score so far: Me 593 SWU 450


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