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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer View Post
    My Grixis Energy deck is doing pretty well, currently sitting at 6 wins 1 loss at FNM, but I've recently picked up an Angrath, the Flame-Chained and I'm wondering if it might be worth replacing something else. Glorybringer is the same CMC, but probably too good to go down to a 2-of. I've never been really thrilled with Whirler Virtuoso, but I'm not sure about replacing a 3 drop with a 5 drop. Thoughts?
    I don't think Angrath is an upgrade for you. He's a lot of mana and only really powerful if you have a lot of sacrifice outlets in the deck, otherwise he can't reliably deal with reasonably sized / multiple creatures.

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I have space for a top end finisher in the modern deck im putting together. Its Temur Bloodbraid feat: Jace because why not play the best cards in modern.

    Im currently looking between Thragtusk (great against aggro and burn, if you can live that long), Thundermaw Hellkite (a pretty quick way to close out games), and Keranos, God of Storms (an card advantage machine against control and also pretty good at beating Jaces)

    this is the list here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/temur...?cb=1519247506
    Its going in the spot of one Tarmogoyf cause apparently i only have the 3.

    Also if anyone has any sideboard thoughts Im really not sure what I should be preparing for.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Does Control becoming good mean Zoo is good again? Voice of Resurgence, bloodbraid elf and kitties puts a fast and hard to disrupt clock.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Does Control becoming good mean Zoo is good again? Voice of Resurgence, bloodbraid elf and kitties puts a fast and hard to disrupt clock.
    Control has been good in modern for a while! But yes, the existence of Jace does push more aggressive decks into the format, trying to finish your opponent before Jace can come down. Zoo is fine, Nacatl is a good card, but its hard to compete with the explosive starts of Affinity or the disruption of 5c Humans. Also Voice of Resurgence is actually pretty bad against Jace tbh.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Control has been good in modern for a while! But yes, the existence of Jace does push more aggressive decks into the format, trying to finish your opponent before Jace can come down. Zoo is fine, Nacatl is a good card, but its hard to compete with the explosive starts of Affinity or the disruption of 5c Humans. Also Voice of Resurgence is actually pretty bad against Jace tbh.
    I don't think it has. In 2017 it was 18% of the meta, up to 23% if we put G/X tron as a control deck. Of the top 10 decks 2 were control, down to 1 depending on how G/X tron is rated. Combo and fatal push made it better then 2016, but I would hardly call those good numbers.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I don't think it has. In 2017 it was 18% of the meta, up to 23% if we put G/X tron as a control deck. Of the top 10 decks 2 were control, down to 1 depending on how G/X tron is rated. Combo and fatal push made it better then 2016, but I would hardly call those good numbers.
    Seems pretty good to me. Modern, pre-Jace was the most diverse constructed format. The fact that it wasn't all control is a good thing.

    Those numbers seem perfectly healthy? We're you expecting 50% or something?
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I have a question for this thread. I've been playing Magic for some time, but always at a pretty casual level, with not much time being spent playing anything competitive, even just FNM, as opposed to just playing with friends. With that said, I enjoy watching competitive Magic, and watching the recent PT has gotten me somewhat interested in the Modern format. One deck that I was curious about (from what I remember about it in Standard), was the Jeskai Ascendancy Combo Deck. Obviously, it's not seeing a ton of play currently, so I was wondering if a) there was a particular reason why, and b) if it might still be worth running at a pretty low level of competition. Also, I was kind of curious if any similar-style decks were doing better at the moment.


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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    I have a question for this thread. I've been playing Magic for some time, but always at a pretty casual level, with not much time being spent playing anything competitive, even just FNM, as opposed to just playing with friends. With that said, I enjoy watching competitive Magic, and watching the recent PT has gotten me somewhat interested in the Modern format. One deck that I was curious about (from what I remember about it in Standard), was the Jeskai Ascendancy Combo Deck. Obviously, it's not seeing a ton of play currently, so I was wondering if a) there was a particular reason why, and b) if it might still be worth running at a pretty low level of competition. Also, I was kind of curious if any similar-style decks were doing better at the moment.
    Jeff Hoogland, who is a somewhat contentious figure in the Magic community, really enjoys playing Jeskai Ascendancy on stream in Modern. It's fringe, but it's definitely playable at low levels of competition. If you put "Jeff Hoogland Jeskai Ascendancy" into youtube, you'll find a number of vods he's got of him playing the deck, which include decklists. Because he's a stay at home dad, a lot of his vods feature screaming children.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Seems pretty good to me. Modern, pre-Jace was the most diverse constructed format. The fact that it wasn't all control is a good thing.

    Those numbers seem perfectly healthy? We're you expecting 50% or something?
    Legacy has aggro 41, control 31, combo 28 for the same period. Having more aggro then control and combo combined is less diverse, no matter how many different aggro decks there are.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Legacy has aggro 41, control 31, combo 28 for the same period. Having more aggro then control and combo combined is less diverse, no matter how many different aggro decks there are.
    Both Legacy and Modern are pretty diverse at the moment. MtgTop8 has control at 27% of the Legacy metagame and 29% of the Modern metagame. The difference between the two, mostly, is that Legacy is 32% combo where Modern is only 19% combo. The control numbers are pretty similar either way.

    Note that Legacy's 'Aggro' section includes tempo lists like BUG delver, and aggro-combo lists like Infect. Modern's 'Aggro' section includes midrange decks like Junk (which is pretty similar to The Rock in 'Control'), and Aggro-Combo like Hollow One.

    I don't think either of Legacy or Modern's metagames could be reasonably described as 'Unhealthy' right now.

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    I don't think either of Legacy or Modern's metagames could be reasonably described as 'Unhealthy' right now.
    Is this a joke? Not only did I not call modern unhealthy, and do not enjoy being straemanned via fake scarequotes, but I in fact had responded first to claims that control had been good in modern before Jace, and to hyperbole that modern was the most diverse format.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Is this a joke? Not only did I not call modern unhealthy, and do not enjoy being straemanned via fake scarequotes, but I in fact had responded first to claims that control had been good in modern before Jace, and to hyperbole that modern was the most diverse format.
    I mean, you just disagreed with someone who was saying Modern's metagame numbers were healthy..

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    I mean, you just disagreed with someone who was saying Modern's metagame numbers were healthy..
    No, I disagreed with two assessments. One, that control had been good in modern for a while. Then I showed that it had a 20% meta share for 2017, which is not in fact good. Then I responded to a claim that modern was the most diverse format, which again is mathematically untrue.

    I'm not interested in an edition war here, my question was about the possibility of Zoo returning now that control has been given a boost. Responding to that question with hyperbolic statements is what led us here.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    No, I disagreed with two assessments. One, that control had been good in modern for a while. Then I showed that it had a 20% meta share for 2017, which is not in fact good. Then I responded to a claim that modern was the most diverse format, which again is mathematically untrue.

    I'm not interested in an edition war here, my question was about the possibility of Zoo returning now that control has been given a boost. Responding to that question with hyperbolic statements is what led us here.
    I mean, looking at the past two months Modern has a higher Control % than Legacy does, and no deck has as much of a metagame representation in Modern as Grixis Delver does in Legacy right now.

    Frankly, archetype percentages as a measure for diversity seem like a pretty bad measurement anyway. There's representatives of Control, Midrange, Combo, Tempo and Aggro all within tiers 1-1.5 of the format currently, and no one deck is inarguably the best deck in the format, which is pretty much what I'd consider the benchmark for 'healthy'.

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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    I mean, looking at the past two months Modern has a higher Control % than Legacy does, and no deck has as much of a metagame representation in Modern as Grixis Delver does in Legacy right now.

    Frankly, archetype percentages as a measure for diversity seem like a pretty bad measurement anyway. There's representatives of Control, Midrange, Combo, Tempo and Aggro all within tiers 1-1.5 of the format currently, and no one deck is inarguably the best deck in the format, which is pretty much what I'd consider the benchmark for 'healthy'.
    Right, which is why I used 2017 in reference to the claim control has been good for a while. Two months is literally right now.

    I disagree with that. If affinity, burn, humans, dredge, suicide zoo and infect each made up a safe 8% of the meta it could be construed as diverse when 48% of the meta is uninteractive fast aggro. Archetype diversity is far more important to the health of a fornat IME.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    No, I disagreed with two assessments. One, that control had been good in modern for a while. Then I showed that it had a 20% meta share for 2017, which is not in fact good. Then I responded to a claim that modern was the most diverse format, which again is mathematically untrue.

    I'm not interested in an edition war here, my question was about the possibility of Zoo returning now that control has been given a boost. Responding to that question with hyperbolic statements is what led us here.
    I mean I engaged with your question. I just corrected your misconception about control being good.
    But for real, your perception of metagame share is just bad. 20% is a good showing. Expecting 25% for all control, aggro, combo and mid-range is pretty unrealistic, even on averages. Especially with how many variations of aggro and combo there are, and how control tends towards one or two variations.
    Regardless, 20% is good. It's not dominant, but it's still good. Eldrazi during Eldrazi winter was 40% of the metagame and it was the worst modern has ever been.

    Sure maybe I was exaggerating on "most diverse format" but I'm pretty tired of people dumping on the format just because they think Affinity, Burn and Infect are the same deck. The two weekends of the Pro Tour and GP Toronto featured 13 different decks across the two top 8s.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Is Infect even a major player in Modern right now? You can certainly play it, but the decks I'm hearing talk about are Humans, Lantern, various GB(maybe X) midrange decks, UW Jace Control decks, and Death's Shadow decks (many of which fall into the GBX midrange category because that category contains at least 8 decks). But I still hear tales of decks like Tron and Scapeshift, Burn and Affinity are always present but never so dominating that it's unfun, Storm is still there but held down by Humans, there's some new hotness with the Hollow One deck, and none of these things mean there's not someone doing something new somewhere. Modern to me has always felt like "do whatever you want, and still probably lose to Tron or Storm."
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    These new challenger decks are S P I C Y. They're gonna be $30 MSRP and the Mono-red one bought individually on Card Kingdom right now would be $101 (and change)

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...sts-2018-02-23
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Is Infect even a major player in Modern right now? You can certainly play it, but the decks I'm hearing talk about are Humans, Lantern, various GB(maybe X) midrange decks, UW Jace Control decks, and Death's Shadow decks (many of which fall into the GBX midrange category because that category contains at least 8 decks). But I still hear tales of decks like Tron and Scapeshift, Burn and Affinity are always present but never so dominating that it's unfun, Storm is still there but held down by Humans, there's some new hotness with the Hollow One deck, and none of these things mean there's not someone doing something new somewhere. Modern to me has always felt like "do whatever you want, and still probably lose to Tron or Storm."
    Yeah basically. Modern is nothing but aggro and combo is all pre-probe ban. In the post-probe world you could play pretty much anything and do reasonably well. Heck the best deck in the format for a long while was a tempo-control deck
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    These new challenger decks are S P I C Y. They're gonna be $30 MSRP and the Mono-red one bought individually on Card Kingdom right now would be $101 (and change)

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...sts-2018-02-23
    Yep, I'm hoping Standard attendance is going to shoot up when these come out.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I somehow don't think these decks are going to be available at the $30 MSRP basically anywhere.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    They're being sold at Walmart and Target who have no clue about secondary market value. You'll be able to get them at MSRP
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    I somehow don't think these decks are going to be available at the $30 MSRP basically anywhere.
    I can bet that my FLGS will be selling at MSRP because they want to get more people for standard.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    They're being sold at Walmart and Target who have no clue about secondary market value. You'll be able to get them at MSRP
    Because of this everyone else will also have to sell at MSRP or else they'll lose the potential customers to these big chains.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck999 View Post
    Because of this everyone else will also have to sell at MSRP or else they'll lose the potential customers to these big chains.
    Or every Walmart/Target will sell out in a weekend (and people will take apart those decks to sell the singles) and LGS' will have all the remaining stock at whatever price they like.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    They're gonna be sufficiently printed to avoid that. They learned their lesson from commander 2013
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    No they didn't. Look at commander 2016. Check the price of Breed Lethality.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Hope increased, as it'd be nice for these decks to be easily available. I am waiting for the actual event, personally, since I'm not really the audience for these (I've already had all the cards I wanted for Standard for a while now), but I hope these help people play Standard.

    The bad part is that these decks are nice, but only for 6 months since many of the key cards in these are from Kaladesh and Amonkhet, which will rotate at around that time.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    Also remember that Dominaria will have been out for half a month by the time these come out, there very well may be cards in that set that invalidate a lot of the major power behind these decks.
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    Default Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

    I thought it was coming out 3 weeks before Dominaria?
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