Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

[Dhavaer]

Challenger decks are out on the 6th of April, Dominaria's prerelease on the 21st.

[Turalisj]

So they are, I thought they were coming out the 30th.

[Grytorm]

I should play this game more, wish Ibhad when I had a strong standard deck. Update the commander decks I have. Maybe some day build a new one. I have a few ideas.

Tommorrow. Hopefully. I might get a fee cards to add to the Daretti deck. Scrap Trawler, Mycosynth Latice, Subterranean Tremors, Inventors Fair, Krark-Clan Ironworks and Hellkite Tyrant. Wjat is a normal number of lands to run in commander. The deck Ibhave sits at 41 lands and I was thinking of going to 39 to make a bit more room for the cards I wanted to add.

[Gauntlet]

I should play this game more, wish Ibhad when I had a strong standard deck. Update the commander decks I have. Maybe some day build a new one. I have a few ideas.

Tommorrow. Hopefully. I might get a fee cards to add to the Daretti deck. Scrap Trawler, Mycosynth Latice, Subterranean Tremors, Inventors Fair, Krark-Clan Ironworks and Hellkite Tyrant. Wjat is a normal number of lands to run in commander. The deck Ibhave sits at 41 lands and I was thinking of going to 39 to make a bit more room for the cards I wanted to add.

A good rule for Commander is to start with 40 lands in the deck, and then cut one land for every two nonland mana sources in the deck. So for example, if you have eight mana artifacts / ramp effects / other mana sources, you probably want around 36 lands. This scales with the number of high mana costs you run, but it's a good place to start.

[tgva8889]

Most people run 35-40 lands, depending on their deck, their mana costs, and a variety of other factors. I'd probably not go too far, as you need lands to cast your spells, but if you have a lot of mana acceleration cards (like artifacts that tap for mana) you can probably get away with that lower end. I generally play 38 and 10 mana ramp cards in all my decks because most of the time your Commander is a good mana sink and I like playing awesome expensive cards. On the other hand, I have one deck that gets away with 35 lands by having a really low mana curve and a lot of cheap ways to draw more cards or find more lands. It really depends on your deck specifically. I err on the side of too many lands and make up for it by playing lands with abilities besides tapping for mana, like Ghost Quarter or Field of Ruin or Kessig Wolf Run or something.

[Ninjaman]

I'd say most commander decks should probably have some amount of ramp, like at least five cards or so, as it just speeds up the deck.
I've heard gauntlet's method before, but I think it's too generous, three mana rocks per land seems more fair, and also only count those with cost 3 or less for this, as you don't want your expensive ramp clogging up your hand while you have no mana to cast it.

It's worth noting that even if you have ramp spells you still want to hit your land drops, as in commander there is rarely such a thing as "enough" mana if you can continue to draw card.

In Daretti you won't feel bad about playing a bunch of mana rocks, but you also want enough mana to keep all your recursion shenanigans going. It of course depends on the specific cards in your deck, but something like 5 to 8 mana rocks and 38 to 39 would probably be fine.

I second what tgva8889 said about effect lands. Lands that would work well with your commander would be:
Geier Reach Sanitarium
Buried Ruin
Sequestered Stash

[Grytorm]

Okay thank you for the advice. I bought the cards I planned to except for Lattice because it was expensive (also was foiled by the similarily priced Crucible of Worlds which I realized would be good). And I added one of the proposed lands to the list. Ill probably go down to 39 or 38 lands because the deck has a healthy supply of mana rocks at 2 mana for turn three Daretti.

Truthfully if I was made of money, first I would build a few more decks, second I would remake the Daretti deck into something really annoying.

[mythmonster2]

So, Chinese MTG website screwed up and released the release notes for Dominaria. WOTC decided to roll with it and released the official release notes (Pastebin version here), showing us all the new mechanics and a good chunk of the cards in the set. For the sake of those who don't want to be spoiled until they officially reveal stuff, maybe let's put any discussion in spoiler tags? Also, "he or she" is officially being changed to "they", plus the new rules on planeswalker damage redirection.

[Dhavaer]

Dominaria looks cool.

Spoiler

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Izzet Wizards particularly. Aggro Control with Bolt and Counterspell? Sign me up. New Karn looks amazing too.

Grixis Energy cleaned up in FNM again, going 2-0 against GB counters, 2-1 against Mossy Mardu tokens and 2-1 against UW Approach. I think I got lucky against Approach, I'm usually very bad against hard control.

I'm considering switching out the Supreme Wills for Champion of Wits. On the one hand more draw power and another threat would be good, on the other it's nice to have a non-reactive target for Torrential Gearhulk.

[Techwarrior]

How often does not having revolt come up for you? Back when BFZ was legal I was running Grixis Dynavolt Control and having a way in the mana to turn on revolt was good. Field might be 'better' than the Evolving Wilds now, but I don't know.

[Dhavaer]

How often does not having revolt come up for you? Back when BFZ was legal I was running Grixis Dynavolt Control and having a way in the mana to turn on revolt was good. Field might be 'better' than the Evolving Wilds now, but I don't know.

I think I've used a revolted Fatal Push once, but I usually don't need it. Harnessed Lightning, Contempt and Glorybringer handle most of my removal issues. Field would be better because the land it fetches is untapped, so you can always use Push as long as you have a swamp to fetch. I'd like to be able to use it but I run very few basics.

[Lord Seth]

For the sake of those who don't want to be spoiled until they officially reveal stuff, maybe let's put any discussion in spoiler tags?

Well, is there anyone here who actually would be offended by depiction or discussion of the cards before they're "officially" spoiled? (and I should point out that they have, essentially, been officially spoiled as WOTC showed them, even if it was somewhat forced on them)

[Svata]

Offended? No. Annoyed? Most certainly. Angry? Lil bit

[Techwarrior]

I think I've used a revolted Fatal Push once, but I usually don't need it. Harnessed Lightning, Contempt and Glorybringer handle most of my removal issues. Field would be better because the land it fetches is untapped, so you can always use Push as long as you have a swamp to fetch. I'd like to be able to use it but I run very few basics.

The list I was running only had about 5-6 basics. Field probably helps your Azcanta matchup as well. Note that you don't need a land to fetch to trigger revolt. Activating Wilds or Field is enough. On the note of your control matchup, which cards are really getting you? Is it the nevermore effects, or just the counter suite? Something else?

[Dhavaer]

The list I was running only had about 5-6 basics. Field probably helps your Azcanta matchup as well. Note that you don't need a land to fetch to trigger revolt. Activating Wilds or Field is enough. On the note of your control matchup, which cards are really getting you? Is it the nevermore effects, or just the counter suite? Something else?

Mostly counterspells. Having a strategy of a 50/50 split between efficient and/or powerful removal and hard hitting threats just matches up badly against decks with few to no creatures and lots of counterspells and removal.

[tgva8889]

Well, is there anyone here who actually would be offended by depiction or discussion of the cards before they're "officially" spoiled? (and I should point out that they have, essentially, been officially spoiled as WOTC showed them, even if it was somewhat forced on them)

Yes. I would like to see them in their intended environment first, at least. Dominaria was totally set up to be a set I was super excited about and while I'm still somewhat excited, I'm kind of bummed by how much of it was messed up by this mistake.

[Techwarrior]

That's the Jund Problem for ya. I'd suggest maxing Duress over your Negates in the board. The black flip land and any form of raw card advantage is what you want. I don't see any Gonti, but that's the kind of thing you want.

[Dhavaer]

That's the Jund Problem for ya. I'd suggest maxing Duress over your Negates in the board. The black flip land and any form of raw card advantage is what you want. I don't see any Gonti, but that's the kind of thing you want.

Sounds like an idea. Maybe -3 Negate +1 Duress +2 Gonti. Maybe move the 4th Contempt into mainboard, dropping Chupacabra, and putting Arguel's in.

[Zombimode]

Rules question:

- Player A has Unburial Rites in the graveyard (and a target)
- Player B has Spell Queller in hand and enough mana to cast it
- A puts Rites on the stack targeting some creature in their yard
- B responds with Spell Queller
- Spell Queller resolves, ability triggers

Question: can B target the flashbacked Unburial Rites with Spell Queller ETB ability?

Magic Online says no.

I've looked through the comprehensive rules but I could not find anything that would back up Magic Onlines behaviour. Flashback is an Alternative Cost. There is no mention of the Flashback cost replacing the CMC of the card on the stack.
There is no mention of Alternative Costs replacing the CMC of the card on the stack.

To me, this looks like a bug.

Thoughts?

[Bucky]

Unburial Rites has a CMC of 5, regardless of whether it's cast from hand or by flashback.

Spell Queller's trigger hits spells with a CMC of 4 or less.

[Androgeus]

Bucky is correct. A spell's CMC is always the cost in the right, regardless of how it was cast.

[Zombimode]

Oh, now I feel dumb. I confused the actual CMC with the flashback costs: I thought Rites would normally costs 4 mana with a flashback cost of 5.
I have no idea why I made this mistake...

Well, carry on citizens, nothing to see here

[Dhavaer]

Spoiler: Dominaria

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Teferi and his Oath both look cool. With two loyalty abilities a turn there's a superfriends deck to make there. The question is, which colours?

Azorius gives Gideon, Dovin Baan, Teferi and Karn. Jace isn't much good in superfriends. Blue brings its counterspell and card advantage suite, White has good removal now in Cast Out, Seal Away and various board wipes. You could potentially side out the walkers for Approach.

Making it Esper adds the new planeswalker buffing removal spell, Settle the Score, although unlike Contempt it doesn't hit enemy walkers. Fatal Push is also good, of course, it lets you play The Scarab God, and having Duress available helps fight control decks that would otherwise give you problems.

Making it Jeskai Black adds Bolas, Angrath and Dark Intimations. Abrade gives another spell to hold up with Teferi's +1. Mana seems like it will be pretty good with both sets of checklands.

I'm leaning to either Azorius, for the good mana, or Jeskai Black, for double plus-ing Bolas.

[Tvtyrant]

What is the consensus on Jace's Spellbook?

Spoiler

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I like it, and when I thought the MSRP was $10 I was going to buy 4. Now I'm not buying any...

[Turalisj]

Stores won't sell it at MSRP anyway.

[Svata]

100% worth the $20 MSRP. If you can get it for that, snatch it up. Heck, I'd pay $25.

[Gauntlet]

The design is nice. Being available in both foil and nonfoil is better than being foil-only. Card choices are solid.

[Tvtyrant]

100% worth the $20 MSRP. If you can get it for that, snatch it up. Heck, I'd pay $25.

I basically want it because they look prettier then normal cards and I want them for my pauper U Delver deck (counterspell, brainstorm, elemental blast and negate).

Actually a Delver's Spellbook would be amazing... Counterspell, Snap, Gush, Delver, Faerie Miscreant, Spellstutter Sprite, Ninja of the Deep Hours, Ponder, Preordain, Daze. Mmmm, that would be sweet.

[Lord Seth]

Considering the initial freakout about Jace's unban (with a number of people speculating about the possibility of a reban within the year), it's amusing how not only have basically all complaints about him gone--price aside--I've seen a few discussions about the possibility of Bloodbraid Elf, the card everyone was ignoring at the time, getting rebanned.

[Techwarrior]

The Jace vs BBE thing is an interesting discussion. BBE is a 4 mana card that generates huge amounts of tempo on average, but it's a 4 mana sorcery that doesn't kill your opponent immediately (usually), while Jace is a 4 mana sorcery speed card that doesn't meaningfully impact the board the turn you play it. If you've ever cast BBE and gotten a 3 for 1 while keeping a BBE on the table to attack with you know what I mean by huge tempo. Jace shuts the door if your opponent doesn't have any pressure, and you can safely tap out for it. BBE helps you get back into games you were otherwise a dog in.

BBE is good in modern because it plays to the board, and generates tempo and card advantage while allowing you to play a very aggressive role.