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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    If you parse it as ”1 hour of walking, or any fighting, or any spellcasting”, then you're saying that a ritual, or even a single cantrip, is an interruption. I read it as ”1 hour of any combination of walking+fighting+casting”.

    If we're being really finicky...you take the middle watch. Did you pace around the camp? One hour of walking, no rest for you! I'm pretty sure that is not RAI, though.
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Officially, no, they are mutually exclusive events. Here's the tweet by Crawford when asked:

    "The intent is that you can't take a short rest and a long rest at the same time. #DnD https://twitter.com/swindxgm/status/750439950210961408 …"

    I think the main thing this prevents is using HD to heal.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    That tweet was specifically about making short rests AND a long rest simultaneously, getting the benefit of both. Not about the time counting as one or the other, whichever the requirements were met for when the rest ends.

    In other words, you don't have to sit down and say "this rest will be a Long Rest" then lock yourself into the benefits of that. It's not a button the characters push marked "Long Rest". If they rested an hour, they get the benefit of a short rest. If they rested 8 hours, including other requirements (sleep for 6 + nothing strenuous) they get the benefits of a Long Rest instead.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    If they rested 8 hours, including other requirements (sleep for 6 + nothing strenuous) they get the benefits of a Long Rest instead.
    Agreed, but slight correction here. It's sleep for 6 + 1.01 hour of non-strenuous things + 59.99 minutes of strenuous activity, will also technically count as a long rest.
    Last edited by LeonBH; 2018-02-17 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    My house rule is, as long as you get an hour of uninteroupted light activity (as in, nothing that would cause you to tire yourself), you gain the benefits of a short rest, and may expand an HD.

    Unless we play in a gritty realism setting.

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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Agreed, but slight correction here. It's sleep for 6 + 1.01 hour of non-strenuous things + 59.99 minutes of strenuous activity, will also technically count as a long rest.
    I intentionally worded it so it works with either side of that argument, because I don't care about it.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Agreed, but slight correction here. It's sleep for 6 + 1.01 hour of non-strenuous things + 59.99 minutes of strenuous activity, will also technically count as a long rest.
    No it is not.
    It is specifically at least 8 hours of rest. If you do 59.99 minutes of activity, that long rest will take you 9 hours to complete, because you only got 7 hours of rest otherwise, which is not at least 8 and is not a long rest.

    And that's if you allow the rest to be broken up. I do not
    Last edited by DivisibleByZero; 2018-02-17 at 01:21 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    By RAW, a long rest lasts "at least 8 hours" so it can last more than 8 hours.

    It must contain at least 6 hours of sleep
    It must contain less than 2 hours of light activity
    It must contain less than 1 hour of strenuous activity


    What if you start a long rest when you're already at full HP, full Spell Slots, etc?

    > You "start" your long rest at full HP, Spell Slots, and other resources.
    > You sleep 8 hours but choose not to "finish" your long rest, continuing to stand watch and do light activity for an hour.
    > You start traveling down the road for half an hour.
    > You get involved in a huge, dangerous battle, still "during" your long rest, but after the long rest could end, and use up all your Spell Slots and lose quite a bit of HP.
    > Then you spend a turn sitting on the floor, engaging in "light activity" and declare that you have now "finished" your long rest.
    > It is now the "end" of your long rest, you regain all your HP and Spell Slots.
    > Now you have a battle in which you are able to use two full days of Spell Slots and other resources??

    I mean, I have never heard of a DM who would allow that, but it's funny to think about.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    That tweet was specifically about making short rests AND a long rest simultaneously, getting the benefit of both. Not about the time counting as one or the other, whichever the requirements were met for when the rest ends.

    In other words, you don't have to sit down and say "this rest will be a Long Rest" then lock yourself into the benefits of that. It's not a button the characters push marked "Long Rest". If they rested an hour, they get the benefit of a short rest. If they rested 8 hours, including other requirements (sleep for 6 + nothing strenuous) they get the benefits of a Long Rest instead.
    If you say "we're going to take a long rest" and then 2 hours into it, that rest gets interrupted, your long rest was interrupted. Per the tweet, and what I believe the intent behind it is, you can't then say "oh okay, we weren't long resting, we were short resting," as it was already declared you were long resting.

    Likewise, you couldn't say "I short rest" eight times in a row and then declare it a long rest.

    The tweet, again, how I take it, means they're mutually exclusive.

    However, I don't think there's any rule about having to declare which rest you're taking beforehand, so you could decide to not declare what rest you're taking, and if your 8-hours is interrupted, you could then declare it a short rest (assuming at least 1 hour passed), however, then you'd have to start your whole eight hours over to long rest; you can't claim the SR when interrupted and then continue the LR after the interruption.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    If you say "we're going to take a long rest" and then 2 hours into it, that rest gets interrupted, your long rest was interrupted. Per the tweet, and what I believe the intent behind it is, you can't then say "oh okay, we weren't long resting, we were short resting," as it was already declared you were long resting.

    Likewise, you couldn't say "I short rest" eight times in a row and tihen declare it a long rest.
    You don't declare a long rest or a short rest. It's not a button you push marked "Long Rest" or "Short Rest".

    You tell the DM you're resting, and how long you're going to try and rest. If you meet the criteria for a short rest, then you got the benefits of short rest. If you instead meet the criteria for a long rest, you get the benefit of a long rest.

    The tweet is just saying that if you meet the requirements for both, you don't get both.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    You don't declare a long rest or a short rest. It's not a button you push marked "Long Rest" or "Short Rest".

    You tell the DM you're resting, and how long you're going to try and rest. If you meet the criteria for a short rest, then you got the benefits of short rest. If you instead meet the criteria for a long rest, you get the benefit of a long rest.

    The tweet is just saying that if you meet the requirements for both, you don't get both.
    You absolutely can tell the DM "we take a long rest" or "we're going to take a short rest;" I've seen it in play plenty of times. Doing so would prevent later invoking the other, as again, they're mutually exclusive.

    I'm not sure why you think it's not possible for players to declare what type of rest they're planning on taking.
    Last edited by RSP; 2018-02-17 at 02:04 PM.

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    d6 Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    My thoughts time is time.

    Your a barbarian you rage. You survive you are winded and out of rage for the day.

    Party starts to wind down for night camp. So called long rest. Takes 15 minutes to set up attack happens . Found a Rogue in around your camp hiding begging for food. You feed him send him on his way let him join for the night. Rest interruption you still can not rage less then an hour your still winded.

    1st watch 4 hours. Nothing. 2nd watch 3 hours in. Wolf enters camp. Your mage gets bit . This wakes the mage you need to get two more hours sleep to regain spells you barbarian can rage kills wolf he needs an hour to become not winded again.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    You absolutely can tell the DM "we take a long rest" or "we're going to take a short rest;" I've seen it in play plenty of times. Doing so would prevent later invoking the other, as again, they're mutually exclusive.

    I'm not sure why you think it's not possible for players to declare what type of rest they're planning on taking.
    You can certainly use it as short hand it for declaring how much time you want to take. But that doesn't lock you out of anything. The benefits accrue from what your character has actually done, not what they declared they were going to attempt to do.

    Again, this isn't a video game where the players push the Long Rest or Short Rest button to gain the benefits. If they do the thing, that's when they get the benefits that apply.

    Edit: Relevant to topic:
    http://theangrygm.com/hitting-the-rest-button/

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    You can certainly use it as short hand it for declaring how much time you want to take. But that doesn't lock you out of anything. The benefits accrue from what your character has actually done, not what they declared they were going to attempt to do.

    Again, this isn't a video game where the players push the Long Rest or Short Rest button to gain the benefits. If they do the thing, that's when they get the benefits that apply.

    Edit: Relevant to topic:
    http://theangrygm.com/hitting-the-rest-button/
    I view it the same as declaring an action: if a player says he attempts to hide, but then fails on the skill check, that player doesn't then get to try a new action just because the first one failed.

    A Long Rest and a Short Rest are different things, and per the tweet, they aren't meant to overlap. Again, nothing says you need to make that choice before allowing for the requirements, but there's clearly a choice being made by the Players.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    A Long Rest and a Short Rest are different things, and per the tweet, they aren't meant to overlap. Again, nothing says you need to make that choice before allowing for the requirements, but there's clearly a choice being made by the Players.
    I see. And what are the characters doing differently when they prepare for a Short Rest or Long Rest? What's the in-world difference between what are merely an abstract mechanic, that they must declare they are attempting something different in-world to choose one or the other before hand, locking themselves out of the other?

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by DivisibleByZero View Post
    A long rest is exactly the same, but also allows standing watch (for no more than 2 hours). It then goes on to specifically state that a rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity (even though that is absolutely, completely, and unmistakably obvious, to the point where even typing that was redundant, because they have already laid out exactly what you're allowed to do on a rest....), and then lists some specific things which interrupt said long rest.
    That list includes:
    -- at least 1 hour of walking
    --fighting
    --casting spells
    -- any similar adventuring activity

    Read things in context.
    It's quite clear.
    I agree with this interpretation. It makes sense with the real world. When my 1 year old daughter wakes me up at 2 in the morning and it takes me some time to get her to go back to sleep, I feel like crap the next day even though I had 5 hours of good solid sleep before hand.

    Combat causes adrenaline - you would have to spend some time calming down before you could return to sleep. That makes sense.

    I have issues with the "casting any spells" rule. A non combat spell shouldn't break up a long rest. For example, a cleric casting "Cure Wounds" shouldn't. A cleric casting "Cause Wounds" should. As a DM, I would make the call on a case by case basis.

    I would grant "Long Rest" after interruption if the Wizard cast Sleep on the party or on an individual. This would depend on how many hp the wizard rolled for the spell. Exchanging a spell slot for a Long Rest is fair.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    I see. And what are the characters doing differently when they prepare for a Short Rest or Long Rest? What's the in-world difference between what are merely an abstract mechanic, that they must declare they are attempting something different in-world to choose one or the other before hand, locking themselves out of the other?
    Generally, I'd say that a Short Rest is everyone sitting down, digging into their packs for snacks and medical supplies, drinking water, refilling canteens from a river. It's not that comfortable, and they're not setting up any particular "campsite".

    A Long Rest involves setting up tents, unrolling bedrolls, maintaining equipment, sharpening blades and fixing armor, gathering wood for a cooking fire, possibly digging a latrine or even pulling bushes/branches into a small palisade or barricade around the campsite.



    Similarly, in a city/town, a short rest might be "a meal at the tavern, sitting around a table", while a long rest is "a night at the inn, in a bed".


    Edit:
    If you spend 8 hours in a row sitting and eating at a tavern, that's not a Long Rest.
    If you spend 1 hour putting up tents, starting a fire, putting out a fire and taking down tents, that's not a Short Rest.
    Last edited by Tiadoppler; 2018-02-17 at 04:48 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiadoppler View Post
    A Long Rest involves setting up tents, unrolling bedrolls, maintaining equipment, sharpening blades and fixing armor, gathering wood for a cooking fire, possibly digging a latrine or even pulling bushes/branches into a small palisade or barricade around the campsite.
    So if they put up their tents, make camp, sleep for three hours, then get up and continue the day after a nap .. that's not a Short Rest?

    Seems arbitrary when they've clearly met the Short rest requirements.

    Edit: and if that's acceptable as a Short rest, why do they suddenly lose the benefits when they intended to get up after 6 hours and cook breakfast and relax another 2 hrs ... And they're attacked after just 3 hours of sleep?

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    So if they put up their tents, make camp, sleep for three hours, then get up and continue the day after a nap .. that's not a Short Rest?

    Seems arbitrary when they've clearly met the Short rest requirements.

    Edit: and if that's acceptable as a Short rest, why do they suddenly lose the benefits when they intended to get up after 6 hours and cook breakfast and relax another 2 hrs ... And they're attacked after just 3 hours of sleep?

    I should have specified:

    In my houserule, setting up for a Long Rest requires some degree of work. An hour in bed at an inn certainly counts as a "Short Rest", but setting up a campsite takes some time, so it might take 2 hours of "Long Rest" in the wilderness to count as a "Short Rest". Basically, it takes an hour to get things set up, so the "resting" only starts after an hour.

    If they set up camp (1 hour), sleep for 3 hours, then break camp (0.5 hours), I'd consider that 3 Short Rests, but it'd take 4.5 hours.

    If they go to an inn, sleep for 3 hours, and leave, I'd consider that 3 Short Rests in 3 hours.

    If they set up camp (1 hour), sleep for 6 hours, have breakfast (0.5), and break camp (0.5), that's a typical Long Rest.
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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    I see. And what are the characters doing differently when they prepare for a Short Rest or Long Rest? What's the in-world difference between what are merely an abstract mechanic, that they must declare they are attempting something different in-world to choose one or the other before hand, locking themselves out of the other?
    The rules are the difference, just like I could describe my character as sneaking around and firing a crossbow during the same in-game 6-second time frame, yet, unless he's a 2nd-level-plus Rogue, he can't perform those actions together, per the rules of actions during rounds.

    As others have stated, SRs and LRs don't necessarily have to be similar actions. It seems you see them as the same, but that doesn't mean others, or the Devs, see them that way.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    The problem is you're assuming that a specific kind of Rest is an action you declare, then going back justifying that assumption as "the rules". That circular and doesn't follow. And nothing in the dev tweet you linked backs that up, since it was about something different.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Going by Crawford's tweet in Sage Advice, I would say that if the party has had enough time to wind down and rest for long enough to 'qualify' for a Short Rest, they get back the resources that recharge on that.

    If they swiftly handle what is interrupting their Long Rest, and can go back to sleep, I say they can gaon the benefits of that Long Rest after it's finished.
    But give some fluff about the sleep being less restful than they'd have liked it to be. Perhaps impose a minor penalty for the one(s) that went a bit harder than they needed to.

    I wouldn't make them start from the top, especially not if they were over halfway through already, and didn't have to relocate.

    Last session I played, we had something similar happen. We'd fought a rather disturbing foe, so the sleep was not as restful as we'd have liked it to be.
    Result? We regained half of our spent spell slots instead of the full amount.
    It wound up not really mattering, but I think it was handled pretty well.
    Last edited by DarkKnightJin; 2018-02-17 at 07:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Rest is rest. If you have had... "a period of downtime, at least I hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

    You have had a short rest or the first hour of your long rest. If you expend hit dice or make available your other short rest abilities, the long rest period must begin again. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    The problem is you're assuming that a specific kind of Rest is an action you declare, then going back justifying that assumption as "the rules". That circular and doesn't follow. And nothing in the dev tweet you linked backs that up, since it was about something different.
    As I said earlier, you don't need to declare it. But if you do, then that's what it is. Why? Because they are two different things that don't overlap.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
    It's poor grammar for the point that they are trying to make (the "at least one hour of walking" should come last in the list), but given the other criteria, it makes sense to read it as "at least one hour of walking, or fighting, or casting a spell." Fighting almost never takes more than a full minute, let alone an hour, so why would they make that distinction? Similarly, casting a spell almost never takes more than an action, or maybe a minute. Only a few rare spells take a significant amount of time to cast, so why would you need to cast spells for more than an hour before you're out?
    It boggles the mind why you're looking at the listed activities as if they are discrete categories, each of which must be contemplated to be taking up the entire hour. No. Walking, fighting, and casting spells are used as examples of "adventuring activity" and any given hour of a PC's adventuring activity is made up of some combination of the three.

    It is the easiest thing in the world to imagine a PC filling an hour with a combination of walking, fighting, and casting spells.

    Taken to a logical conclusion, saying that a long rest can't be interrupted by 59 minutes of combat or casting, why wouldn't players just announce that they're taking a long rest right before every combat? If they're fighting for less than an hour, they'd still get the benefits!
    A PC declaring that they are taking a long rest at the onset of combat is about as useful as Michael Scott walking into the office and shouting "I declare bankruptcy!" To paraphrase Oscar Martinez, "I just wanted to let you know that you can't just say the word 'long rest' and expect anything to happen."

    In either case, it sounds like you think you get to count the 59 minutes of adventuring activity as part of your 8 hours of long rest. This is not correct. You still have to relax for a full 8 hours outside of those 59 minutes.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Agreed, but slight correction here. It's sleep for 6 + 1.01 hour of non-strenuous things + 59.99 minutes of strenuous activity, will also technically count as a long rest.
    As written in the PHB a long rest is 8 hours of rest, of which two can be standing watch. It can be interrupted by 1 hour of walking, but that hour is not part of the rest time. So 4 hours of rest interrupted by 1 hour of walking followed by 4 hours of rest would be a long rest. 4 hours of rest interrupted by 1 hour of walking followed by 3 hours of rest would be a short rest.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Just to add to this discussion: it seems awfully metagamey to start resting, have three hours pass, wait for the DM to describe what's happening (such as "your sleep is interrupted when 5 hellhounds approach your camp, growling and howling"), and then respond with whether character was taking a SR or a LR.

    Essentially you're deciding: "is this enough to prevent my LR all together, or will we be able to continue after dealing with this?" Then, after processing that information, choosing what your character was doing prior to the interruption.

    So the intent of the PCs is important prior to starting the rest, because their characters shouldn't know if they're waking up because Steve is snoring, or because Steve was just cut in half by a orc.

    Deciding whether or not your character was short resting or long resting, after knowing what interrupted your rest is completely against in-game RP.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleon_in_rag View Post
    As written in the PHB a long rest is 8 hours of rest, of which two can be standing watch. It can be interrupted by 1 hour of walking, but that hour is not part of the rest time. So 4 hours of rest interrupted by 1 hour of walking followed by 4 hours of rest would be a long rest. 4 hours of rest interrupted by 1 hour of walking followed by 3 hours of rest would be a short rest.
    I think Leon was referring to the PHB errata that states a LR requires 6 hours of sleep. Per the errata:

    "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as read- ing, talking, eating, or standing watch.”

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    I think Leon was referring to the PHB errata that states a LR requires 6 hours of sleep. Per the errata:

    "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as read- ing, talking, eating, or standing watch.”
    Leon stated:

    It's sleep for 6 + 1.01 hour of non-strenuous things + 59.99 minutes of strenuous activity, will also technically count as a long rest.
    Any strenuous activity is an interruption. If you are giving a 20 minute speech and I interrupt you for 5 minutes, the total time would be 25 minutes. So Leon's example would require an additional 59.99 minutes of sleep or non strenuous activity for a total of 8 hours, 59.99 minutes.

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    Default Re: Can an interrupted long rest be treated as a short rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleon_in_rag View Post
    Leon stated:



    Any strenuous activity is an interruption. If you are giving a 20 minute speech and I interrupt you for 5 minutes, the total time would be 25 minutes. So Leon's example would require an additional 59.99 minutes of sleep or non strenuous activity for a total of 8 hours, 59.99 minutes.
    Apologies. Leon is in error as well:

    "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as read- ing, talking, eating, or standing watch.”

    Here are the requirements for a long rest:

    - it's at least 8 hours
    - at least 6 hours are sleep
    - no more than 2 hours of light activity

    Edit: just reread the errata that it only changed the first sentence. Can still be interrupted and yes, you would need to tack on the interruption. Apologies again.
    Last edited by RSP; 2018-02-18 at 08:23 AM.

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