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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    If I read him right, Fizban is sad that two-handed power attack is the only melee strategy anyone has any time for in 3X. (But two-weapon fighters can suck it, apparently). So setting aside martials vs casters, let's imagine a semi-elegant mechanism where fighty-guys can do stuff besides maxx out Power Attack with a two-handed weapon.

    Let's say that instead of a bunch of Bonus Feats, or maybe on top of them, you have Fighting Styles. Warriors get 2 Fighting Styles, and you can mix and match.

    First post, let's make our list. I've included some basic ideas about how each would work.

    NOTE: I'm using 1/2 BAB as a scaling factor for a lot of things, but that doesn't give you anything at first level, or for the first two levels if we let 3/4 BAB types into the Beatstick Brotherhood. So I'm making it 1/2 BAB +1. (This is an errata-in-advance in case I copy and paste something that I didn't update.)

    Some things might require you to take away from the basic Fighter package (a Fighting Style that allows Heavy Armor Proficiency is pretty sad if you already have HAP.). I'd say force a trade for a Feat in those cases.

    General tweak: Some "feats" come online automatically when you hit +1 BAB. Power Attack, Combat Expertise, ("Feat Tax Refund")

    1. Barbarian Rage

    2. Two-hander. Maybe 2HPA at x1.5? Maybe PA at x1, AC-to-damage at x1, stacking?

    3. Two-weapon style (includes using one weapon for Combat Maneuvers)

    4. Shield Mastery (Add ½ BAB +1 to touch AC, reflex saves). (Includes Heavy Armor Proficiency)

    5. Swashbuckler. Free Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse, ½ BAB +1 to AC, +DEX to damage

    6. Archer. Free Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

    7. Weapon Specialist. Bonus +½ BAB +1 to hit, +½ BAB +1 to damage

    8. Defender. You prevent attacks on your allies, by taking those attacks instead. (Includes Heavy Armor Proficiency) Includes Combat Reflexes, maybe a mutant CR that uses 1/2 BAB + 1 instead of Dexterity?

    9. Martial Artist. Monk unarmed strike progression, flurry of blows.

    10. Master Wrestler. Your grapple does Strength damage (as unarmed strike, d2 for Small, d3 for Medium). Recovery is 1 point per hour, not per day.

    Is there a style that should be on the list?

    EDIT: Suggested styles
    11. Crossbow. Is this that different from Archer? You'd want something to get around your action-economy problems (loading as a full-round, standard or move action), something to add Dex to damage. Or is that why you stack it with Weapon Specialist.

    12. Thrown Weapons. What do we need here?

    13. Reach weapons. Something about whacking adjacent enemies with the blunt end?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    Is 1/2 BAB +1 to AC bad?

    Too much? Nobody can hit anything, so it slows down combat?

    Not enough to matter?

    Irrelevant because spells bypass AC anyway?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    If you are going to do this, I strongly recommend looking into Spheres of Might. Even if you don't end up using it, it will definitely send you in the right direction regarding this.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aipaca View Post
    If you are going to do this, I strongly recommend looking into Spheres of Might. Even if you don't end up using it, it will definitely send you in the right direction regarding this.
    Well, I want to see how far we can get by deploying a simple idea: 1/2 BAB (+1) as a scaling factor.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Jun 2017
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    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    Forgot: Crossbows, Thrown Weapons, and Reach Weapons. Sure, reach weapons usually end up something like a defensive build. Also the defender thing looks really good until you realize that you shouldn't be able to let your opponents get too close to your squishy allies.

    Also missed:
    1) Range (Presumably it'd only work on close allies, but a RAW reading allows you to protect anybody, anywhere. Pretty cool if the all-mighty lich king has a bunch of skeletons "defending" him in the basement of his sanctum. Muahahaha!)
    2) AC: Does the defender's attack roll go vs your AC or his target's AC? Can the enemy orc barbarian keep beating on your wizard's AC and completely invalidate yours?

    Oh yea, and don't steal the barbarian's only worthwhile class feature
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post
    Well, I want to see how far we can get by deploying a simple idea: 1/2 BAB (+1) as a scaling factor.
    Why are you giving a bunch of martials commoner progression?

    Also shouldn't this be in the homebrew forum?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    killing and eating a bag of rats is probably kosher.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking), and your humility is stunning

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    Forgot: Crossbows, Thrown Weapons, and Reach Weapons.
    Thanks.

    Sure, reach weapons usually end up something like a defensive build. Also the defender thing looks really good until you realize that you shouldn't be able to let your opponents get too close to your squishy allies.
    They usually find a way, and generally in 3X the only way a martial has to stop them is to drop them to 0 HP. Defender and reach weapons could synergize.

    Also missed:
    1) Range (Presumably it'd only work on close allies, but a RAW reading allows you to protect anybody, anywhere. Pretty cool if the all-mighty lich king has a bunch of skeletons "defending" him in the basement of his sanctum. Muahahaha!)
    Close allies. I was originally thinking 5', but it should be any square or hex you would normally threaten.

    2) AC: Does the defender's attack roll go vs your AC or his target's AC? Can the enemy orc barbarian keep beating on your wizard's AC and completely invalidate yours?
    Well, sequentially.

    DM: Orc attacks the wizard.
    Fighter: Nope, I use Defender.
    DM: OK roll (Mechanic TBD. Pathfinder's CMB vs CMD? Fighter succeeds)
    DM: Ok, Orc attacks fighter.


    The whole point is that the Defender soaks up attacks (because you've got the HP and AC to handle it) so that the squishies don't have to.

    Oh yea, and don't steal the barbarian's only worthwhile class feature
    Well, the barbarian is a full BAB, so he gets to stack Rage with 2HPA, or one of the others. Otherwise taking away 2HPA for x2 damage makes the Barbarian suck. Barbarians get to choose 2 Fighting Styles, no doubt.

    Why are you giving a bunch of martials commoner progression?
    I will edit the original post. The Fighting Style is meant to stacks with your BAB. So a 4th level Weapon Specialist is attacking at +7 (BAB +4 WS 1 + (1/2 of 4)), just counting BAB and Fighting Style.


    Also shouldn't this be in the homebrew forum?
    Yes. But I wanted the posters in Fizban's thread to take a look, and I wanted to move the discussion away from that thread which is becoming unfriendly.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: More ways to beatstick good. Thread inspired by Fizban's. Half-baked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    Reach Weapons. Sure, reach weapons usually end up something like a defensive build.
    Do polearm warriors need a separate Style? I'm thinking they take 2 of the 3: 2HPA, Weapon Specialist, Defender.

    What else do they need?
    Attacking adjacent enemies: BAckup weapon (Quickdraw feat tax), or a feat to use the butt of their polearm for d6 + 1.5 Str (feat tax)

    Improved Trip/Disarm shenanigans. More feat taxes.

    Feat taxes are bad, but they get Combat Expertise for free at +1 BAB, so needing a feat for Improved Trip/Disarm is not AS bad.

    ACtually, would anyone miss Quick Draw as a separate feat, or can I just throw it in the package everybody gets at +1 BAB basket along with Power Attack (1:1) and Combat Expertise?

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