[Drop Dead Studios] Time Handbook Open Beta- Alternate Timeline

[meat_shield]

Glad to hear that feats, items, ect are going to make an appearance. In regards to the more archtypes - not sure there was much to do here. Symbiat got one, HW got a new tradition, Incanter is an odd class to give an archtype to due to specializations which allow a lot of flexibility already. Symbiat fits the best IMO though a case could be made for Fey Adept or Thaumaturge archtypes that are Time focused.

As for the talents - I do not like the new Haste and Slow options as I can't see me ever really using the new Haste or Slow option especially at later levels. I do like the direction though, I wanted to see more options for both Haste and Slow. Any easy solution would be increase the movement speed granted by Haste to some scaling numeric value (similar to some of the Fate talents and how they change the area of your Consecrations, IE Exalted Consecration). You could do the same to the attack bonus or penalty (for slow), allow haste to bump you up above the next person in initiative (or move targets below the next person in initiative - and maybe a way to move them further down /w further spell points or talent investment). There is a lot here you could do to the core Haste/Slow talents to give other
options if someone wants to really focus on them. Aside from that options around the existing talents like Fast Time (instead of rounds what about having a way to do minutes, hours or days via higher CL, more spell points, additional talents/advanced talents, ect ? Might add a MSB chk to this though). Shift Time also has a lot of options - maybe a way to down grade the action lost, if they take a standard they give up a move next turn, banking "actions" stolen /w steal time. Just some options and ideas I had -

[khadgar567]

agreed with meat_shield i to like to see some updated haste talents with option to do more then single action worth of action like ability to pull two turns worth of action by spending 5 spell points. or slowing that raging barbarian to no action state so your rogue can cup de grace him without fear of getting smashed in to fine rogue paste.

[Danielxxi]

I posted this in the document itself but I want to post it here as well:

I would really like to see more content for the classes in Spheres of Power. Right now this book is looking more like a Champions of the Spheres product than a SoP product. That is not to say I don't crave CotS products, I definitely do, I just don't want it to take the place of one of the sphere handbooks.

I personally would like to see at least : 1 archetype for one of the full caster classes introduced in SoP (though 1 archetype for each would be even better) and 1 or more new Incater specializations.

I would also like to see less mixing of other sphere abilities into the archetypes and talents. warp shows up far to often in this book when the focus is supposed to be on the time sphere.

This is exactly what I think when I read the archetype section of the document.

This is a book for casters, and it was very disappointing to find only archetypes for non casters.
There are:
0 High – Casters
1 Medium-Caster
2 Low-Caster
6 Non casters

Mosts of this archetypes are ok, but I think that this is not the book for them.

In my group we coincide that the classes more associated with time magic are Spheres Oracles, Sphere wizards and incanters. And there must be at least options for two of them.

The question here is: Why do yuo thins that, for example, a figther is more related with time magic than an oracle or an incanter?

I think that most of the archetypes in a book about time magic should be for high o medium casters.

Ssalarn, I want to start by thanking you for your hard work on this.
…

Advanced Talents:
Age Control - CL15 - A permanent version of the Age talent.
[This is mostly a flavorful thing so that wizards don't need to become liches for their immortality, and already has precedence with the Elixir of Immortality in Alchemist Sphere available at lvl 10. The only difference being that the EoI requires 50k gp per application to return to young. So raising the level requirement to do it for free (or otherwise introducing a cost) does not seem unreasonable.]

There are options at least for alchemist, oracles, wizards, and witch to do this. Although most of
them at level 20, it would be nice to have something like this at CL 15.

[stack]

Every new talent is an option for the full casters, in one respect. I would not want to see archetypes for the sake of checking off boxes. In fact, a few of the current archetypes seem to be a bit of a stretch.

[meemaas]

Every new talent is an option for the full casters, in one respect. I would not want to see archetypes for the sake of checking off boxes. In fact, a few of the current archetypes seem to be a bit of a stretch.

Honestly, what would you give a Full Caster that isn't already better off being a talent (if it isn't already) anyways? I for one like what is there, but I think that the people that are complaining about a lack of full casting archetypes should be recommending their ideas for them instead of complaining.

[EldritchWeaver]

I think that the people that are complaining about a lack of full casting archetypes should be recommending their ideas for them instead of complaining.

That's kinda like saying that people who dislike the food the cook in a restaurant provided to them have to give (improved) recipes in order to be allowed to complain.

[meemaas]

That's kinda like saying that people who dislike the food the cook in a restaurant provided to them have to give (improved) recipes in order to be allowed to complain.

I'm making this recommendation because the reason for no Full Caster archetype is likely the fact that the Author couldn't come up with one that was both relevant and thematic, with abilities that deserve to be class features instead of talents. I mean, I could be wrong, but that's likely it. Ssalarn is a good author, and his work has been exemplary so far, so I trust that if he had a good concept for a Full Caster archetype, he would have written it already.

As that is not the case, our only recourse is to bounce our own ideas towards him, hoping something sticks and gives him the inspiration he needs.

[khadgar567]

I'm making this recommendation because the reason for no Full Caster archetype is likely the fact that the Author couldn't come up with one that was both relevant and thematic, with abilities that deserve to be class features instead of talents. I mean, I could be wrong, but that's likely it. Ssalarn is a good author, and his work has been exemplary so far, so I trust that if he had a good concept for a Full Caster archetype, he would have written it already.

As that is not the case, our only recourse is to bounce our own ideas towards him, hoping something sticks and gives him the inspiration he needs.

gotta agree with you there but the problem is a lot of home brewers cant word their ideas same style as Ssalarn or other pros b creating spheres and talents harder then you think as you gonna need to balance them so perfectly that you have no perfect only road to munckinville. c even you create the sphere there in no way you can get some peach data because the whole community is still prefer to you use the same old spell list the wizard of coast pooped when they first founded by Gary gygax.

[master4sword]

I know my players were hoping to see an attack-action-friendly Haste talent, ever since they realized that Haste doesn't provide extra attacks to characters using most Spheres of Might content. Perhaps a talent that adds an extra attack during an attack action (and of course specifies that the extra attack is not an attack action for the purposes of everything, much like how sphere TWF works)?

Improved Age could be a fun advanced talent (as the Age base talent, but permanent for extra spell points - permanently age or de-age someone).


Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

[khadgar567]

How about true memory using mind and time sphere to perfectly recall the memory you have or casted on target with cost like 5 points as advance talent since we have refrain and greater refrain we kinda need a talent to remember the old memories so we can regrab the old skills.

[Ssalarn]

Personally I would be happy if the content I asked for were added. As I said, I do actually like the champions content as long as it doesn't take the place of SoP content.

If you know anyone who does not have Spheres of Might and was not interested in it I would talk to them about it though as the amount of champion content will still be pretty high

I'm looking into adding a couple more archetypes covering more of the full casters, but those tend to be the classes that are either hardest to archetype or least need it, so we're looking for good needs that we can meet so we aren't just throwing in materials for the sake of throwing in materials.. I'm also hoping to drop in a few other specfic requests (a talent for aging objects, some tweaks to time clone, feats, and a couple other items), so I'm hoping I can push that update out before next week. Unfortunately I wasn't able to run an update over the weekend as anticipated, largely due to not having a single free minute.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Full-CL Time archetype myself (or adjusting the Symbiat to be one), but that said, writing Time talents is damned hard. Most time effects are potentially game breaking, and building something around that is inviting the ban hammer from the GM.

Time is a really interesting sphere. One of the things I've spent a lot of time () discussing with Adam and certain other members of the team is kind of the end goal of this book, and what we want to do with it. There's a lot of things you could do with Time that would be really cool... and would never get used at the table because they'd invoke serious GM wrath. As cool as big rewind powers (days/years/months but really even something as short as an hour) can be, they're also the kinds of things where the GM or another player might feel inclined to clobber you with a CRB over because you literally just erased some to all of the night's session, for example. We really want a book that's going to be used, and we thought that one of the best ways of making sure that's the case is to let people dabble in Time with all kinds of different builds and concepts; champion classes, class options, Dr. Who inspired traditions and archetypes, etc.

[Kaouse]

I would like to note that my group plays with a character using a third party Time Domain, which allows them to, once per week, turn back time for 1 combat round or 1 non-combat minute. It's certainly seen it's fair set of use, that's for sure. It's really useful as an "Oh Shi-" ability, and can really help negate some awful rolls. Plus, the once per week restriction really keeps it from being spammed every session, allowing the plot to progress.

[A.J.Gibson]

Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

Time Stop is very strong, even by advanced talent standards. The only way it can be balanced is if you can only take limited actions only, like only being able to buff yourself. Once you've done that, however, it's easier to write the talent as 'you can do X hyper fast' and reflavor it as a time stop. It ends up being more balanced and you can make it more accessible at low level.

[unseenmage]

...

Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

While I'm busy trying to find the spheres version of the old 3.x web content Teleeport Through Time and the associated Create Time Portal feat...

[Scowling Dragon]

How about some official "Travel through Time" Talents?

[digiman619]

How about some official "Travel through Time" Talents?

Personally, I think that if that sort of time travel shows up, it'll be an incantation rather than a talent, even an advanced one.

[khadgar567]

Personally, I think that if that sort of time travel shows up, it'll be an incantation rather than a talent, even an advanced one.

agreed i dont want carbon skin nanotube armor on my incanter just because he can time travel to akiton for breakfast.

[The Vagabond]

I'm looking into adding a couple more archetypes covering more of the full casters, but those tend to be the classes that are either hardest to archetype or least need it, so we're looking for good needs that we can meet so we aren't just throwing in materials for the sake of throwing in materials.. I'm also hoping to drop in a few other specfic requests (a talent for aging objects, some tweaks to time clone, feats, and a couple other items), so I'm hoping I can push that update out before next week. Unfortunately I wasn't able to run an update over the weekend as anticipated, largely due to not having a single free minute.

Time is a really interesting sphere. One of the things I've spent a lot of time () discussing with Adam and certain other members of the team is kind of the end goal of this book, and what we want to do with it. There's a lot of things you could do with Time that would be really cool... and would never get used at the table because they'd invoke serious GM wrath. As cool as big rewind powers (days/years/months but really even something as short as an hour) can be, they're also the kinds of things where the GM or another player might feel inclined to clobber you with a CRB over because you literally just erased some to all of the night's session, for example. We really want a book that's going to be used, and we thought that one of the best ways of making sure that's the case is to let people dabble in Time with all kinds of different builds and concepts; champion classes, class options, Dr. Who inspired traditions and archetypes, etc.

I suppose a question is "What is Time" before you do this stuff.

For me, Tabletop RPG's, Video Games, and honestly most non-time-travel media uses what I like to call a "Watershed" type of time. That is to say, the past has happened, and the future will happen, but two different courses of events can lead to the same moment in time. It's a weird concept that I haven't fully solidified, but I had some ideas.

Spoiler: Rundown of various scenarios

Show

You travel back in time to kill hitler, you remain.
Your timeline is erased, you remain if you're not in that section as individuals are removed from time.
Think of time as a subway map that branches and twists: You can take two routes to reach your destination, but the destination can also be the same both ways.
In addition, the past can change seemingly suddenly as well. If you've watched something written by the seat of its pants, or perhaps had a major retcorn, this is what happens when inconsistencies in writings occur.
Yesterday is fluid, but so is tomorrow. Parallel universes split and combine like paths, all leading forward. You rarely can fight that.

One thing I will say about the previous playtest, it had some interesting Sphere archetypes. Most of the talents were pretty poor, and honestly it wasn't that great, but the Self-Taught tradition was absolutely amazing, and I rather like the Tempoet.
Continuing from the previous playtest, I found the idea of a Debuff for a Buff an interesting idea that I'd have liked to see played more with. I have a half-baked concept for a "Stutter" similar to Quantum Break's in flavor, which grants a number of debuff/buffs to pass around according to your caster level, as you make areas of "Stutter" where these effects happen.
A second idea would be "How do we turn our enemies into assets?" Things like turning previous movement actions into hazards, making attacks "Echo" into following rounds as you reposition the enemy into their own attacks, ect.
One thing I'd really kinda stay away from is Action economy, despite being thematically appropriate. At most, I'd say perhaps allowing to some abilities to go faster, but even then I'm slightly worried.

The reason I, personally like the Sphere System (And I rather enjoy Vancian casting for encouraging a wide array of character abilities) is that it opens up options that simply are not viable in the standard pathfinder system. If we create a mechanical identity of the Time sphere to be turning an enemy's assets against them, then we have an interesting mechanical identity that isn't "Oh, I go into the past and prevent things from happening!"

Honestly, I have a dozen talent ideas in my head that I'd like to see come to fruition. If I listed them, would you place them under consideration, and what would I have to do to make them not considered copyright?

[EldritchWeaver]

I found the idea of a Debuff for a Buff an interesting idea that I'd have liked to see played more with. I have a half-baked concept for a "Stutter" similar to Quantum Break's in flavor, which grants a number of debuff/buffs to pass around according to your caster level, as you make areas of "Stutter" where these effects happen.

What you describe is not the old way how those talents worked. You gave a target both a buff and debuff at once. Which is an idea I never liked. Why would you debuff your teammates? Why would you buff your enemies? To artificially increase difficulty?

What might work would be general talent which allows you to join two time talents and you can choose the squares where which talent is active. But do we actually have area of effect stuff instead of merely using specific target? If we only have Group Time, then all such a talent does allow is to save time and spell points. Which might be too good then as well.

[/QUOTE]Honestly, I have a dozen talent ideas in my head that I'd like to see come to fruition. If I listed them, would you place them under consideration, and what would I have to do to make them not considered copyright?[/QUOTE]

Feel free to post them anyway. I'd be interested in seeing ideas.

[The Vagabond]

What you describe is not the old way how those talents worked. You gave a target both a buff and debuff at once. Which is an idea I never liked. Why would you debuff your teammates? Why would you buff your enemies? To artificially increase difficulty?

For me, at least, it seemed like an interesting trade. Then again, I've always been a sucker for "Great Power at great cost" stuff.

What might work would be general talent which allows you to join two time talents and you can choose the squares where which talent is active. But do we actually have area of effect stuff instead of merely using specific target? If we only have Group Time, then all such a talent does allow is to save time and spell points. Which might be too good then as well.

Feel free to post them anyway. I'd be interested in seeing ideas.

I suppose I should explain it with the ideas I have. It's an idea that perhaps could probably be better suited with the Fate sphere, but I just find it makes more sense for the idea behind the Time Sphere I have.
Either way, the idea was that the economy of actions would make it a smart idea: In exchange for being able to use certain abilities as a free action, people suffer.

Spoiler: New Time Talents

Show

New Time Talent Descriptor: (Stutter)
Stutter talents only function in an area of Stutter, as defined below. Unless an action is listed, using a Stutter Talent expends an Attack of Opportunity. You can use any stutter talents in anyone's stutter, not just your own, and any creature can end the effect of a stutter as a move action, by either making a MSB check vs their MSD, or certain skill checks against their MSD (Use Magic Device, Knowledge (History), or Heal). Unless stated otherwise, each stutter talent requires a will save. Should a creature leave a Stutter, all Stutter effects cease on the target.

Create Time Stutter
A quick TL;DR would be that this turns the area within close range into an area of “Stutter,” where a character can use their talents to apply combo buff/debuffs using their Attacks of Opportunities, Once per round at 1st level, increasing by one at level 4 and every 4 levels after. Not sure what the base effect would be.
Spend spell points to reduce concentration action (From standard to move, Move to Swift, and Swift to Free) but not make it last for minutes/level.
(Originally thought about making it a free action, but I think AoOs are a more interesting idea.)

Alter History:
With talents marked as (History), You can make small changes to what is observed in history to grant allies various benefits. To change history in this way is a lengthy, strenuous endeavor, and usually requires any targets of the effect to sit down and communicate with each other for 10 minutes to make sure the past remains stable. If communication does not occur, then the sphere effect fails and all creatures are nauseated for 1 hour per caster level. You can affect a number of creatures with this equal to your caster level or casting modifier, whichever is higher.

Trail Past (Time):
When the selected creature takes uses their move action to move, they continue to occupy the squares they walked through until the end of their next turn, and count as passing through the squares until the end of your turn.
This lasts until you end concentration or (If you spend a spell point) 1 round per caster level

(Use it to make walls of meat as a buff! Use it to make following the Wizard easier, or to make attacking a fleeing opponent easier)

Echo Attack (Time):
As a standard action, the selected creature’s attack echo into the following turns. The creature’s first attack action or attack equivalent (Whether it be making a trip attempt or similar) continues to take effect the following turn, affecting the targeted square the creature/item target is in once per round.
This lasts until you cease concentration, or 1 round/CL if you spend a spell point.
(This is essentially a way to turn an enemy’s action against them, or bolster your own creature’s actions. Reposition an enemy into their own trip attempt, have your Barbarian grapple a creature each round without having to spend his own action, ect.)

Ranged Attack Echo (Time):
When a creature makes a ranged attack against you or any other creature, as an Immediate action, you can stretch that ranged attack between the attacker and the target. Any creature who passes through that line of effect takes damage as if hit by that ranged attack, along with any negative effects (Ref save for half? Or no damage)
This lasts until the start of your turn unless you concentrate on it, or spend a spell point for it to last for 1 round per level.

(Same as Echo Attack)

Lingering Area (Time)
As a standard action (Or immediate action if you spend a spell point), you may select an 10 foot radius area. Any splash weapons or area-affecting spell/effect lingers in the area. Anyone who starts their turn in the area, ends their turn in the area, or passes through this area takes damage from the effects that have occured in this area. This lasts until the start of your next turn, though you can spend a spell point to extend its effects for another round. A given creature can be affected by a given effect in this area once per round.

(Turn an allies destructive blast into a lingering effect! Or your Alchemists splash weapons, or a dragon’s breath attack! Toss a Wizard into the fires of his own fireball for irony’s sake!)

Delay Pain at the price of blood (Time):
You cause the selected creature to delay any damage it might take until the end of this effect. They take no damage as long as this effect lasts on them until the spell ends. Once the spell ends, they take any damage they might have ignored at as Bleed damage. They continue to take this damage each round until the bleeding stops. This effect lasts as long as you concentrate, up to 1 round per 2 caster level.
(An interesting effect)

Delay Death (Time):
When an attack would reduce a creature to 0 HP, they can spread the damage across the next couple of rounds. Each round, you take 5 bleed damage per character level. This bleed damage does not end until you take a number of points of bleed equal to the damage taken. This lasts until you have taken bleed damage equal to the damage you would have taken.

Steal Future (Time):
You grant the selected creature a standard action on your turn to spend however they would prefer. They must then perform the standard action before this spell ends in the same location, or they take 1d6 damage per caster level (Will save to ignore initial effect). This lasts for concentration or 1 round per 2 caster level.

Stuttered Vision (Stutter):
A single creature is blinded until the start of your next turn. However, a the afflicted character can select one of two effects to benefit from:
All lethal damage it takes is rendered into nonlethal damage. This effect lasts for 1 minute, at the end of which all nonlethal damage becomes lethal damage.
Gain the benefit of the time sphere’s Haste ability.

Time Drain (Stutter):
All creatures in your stutter (Both ally and enemy) treat the duration of some buffs as lasting rounds per level, rather than hours per level. You can affect things with a duration measured in minutes at CL 1, measured in 10 minute increments at CL 7, things measured in hours at CL 14, and things measured in days at CL 21. This lasts for 1 round per 2 caster levels or concentration, whichever is shorter.

I bought it yesterday (Time):
You cause the selected mundane item to become un-purchased. This turns the item into a number of gold pieces equal to the selling value. You can also spend a spell point to target a number of gold pieces equal to the value of another mundane item, retroactively purchasing it. This item appears where the gold pieces would be.

Echoing Self (Stutter):
A single target suffers spell failure chance from hearing their own words echoed as their past occurs with the present, and a shadow of their actions occurs in tandem. This renders the target unable to speak unless the spend a move action to focus themselves, and applies 20% spell failure chance on any effect with Vocal components. However, this also applies a 20% miss chance to the selected target, as the creature cannot see themselves. The miss chance and spell failure chance increase by 5% per 3 caster levels up to a maximum of 50%.

Pause Movement (Time):
You stop the movement of any inanimate object in in a 10 foot radius within close range. This allows you to cross any rapturous surfaces, and ignore any reflex saves required by a given effect.

Did we drink that? (History):
By spending 5 minutes talking with each character, you can regain a small number of consumable alchemical remedies. You regain a total number of alchemical remedies expended within the last 24 hours whos total value equals to 25 gp per caster level. This increases by 25 gp at level 5 (To 50 gp per caster level), and by 25 every 5 caster levels after.
You can take this talent a second time, this time affecting magical items worth half the value of a mundane item.

Long Rests (History):
Regain HP and ability damage as if you rested for 1 day per 6 caster levels (Minimum 1 day). This does not regain Spell Points, Spell Slots, or any daily usage abilities.

Slow and Steady (Stutter):
A single target suffers slow as your sphere ability, and gains finer control with their reduced speed. While under the slow effect, the target rolls twice and takes the better result on all skill checks and attack rolls.

Were we friends? (Stutter):
All creatures within your stutter treat all other creatures as both allies and enemies. This means that you cannot exclude anyone if it excludes only allies, count as flanking with an enemy, and suffer the pain and boons from any war sphere talent that affects both allies and enemies.

Exchange Power (History):
Allies can exchange spell points with each other, and exchange certain limited-use abilities with each other at a rate of 1 point in your ki pool, 1 point from your arcane pool, 2 rounds of barbarian rage, 2 rounds of bardic performance, one use of channel energy, 1 grit point, one use of smite evil.

Exchange Pain (History):
You can transfer damage between creatures up to your caster level. Allies can heal damage by applying damage to other creatures equal to the damage healed.

Spoiler: Some advanced talent concepts

Show

Or did I buy it tomorrow?:
Prerequisite: I bought it yesterday
Your I bought it Yesterday ability now affects magical items. Mundane items are un-purchased at their base GP value. You can select this a 2nd time, to sell magical items at their base value.

Or are we going to?:
Prerequisite: Did we drink that
The talent can now affect magical potions. If taken a second time, it can be used on all kinds of mundane expendable items. If taken a third time, it can be used for all magical expendable items.

I ended up whipping up twice as many as I thought I had. I’m actually rather shocked.
For full-caster archetypes, I can see ways to manipulate money, or harder, HARDER uses of time-travel can be used (The stuff you don't want to pass out as a magical talent).

Also annoyed by the fact that I didn't make as many time talents as I'd have liked.

[khadgar567]

Looks good for me. Looks like time handbook 2 to has its talents ready.

[mrguymiah]

*snip*

I absolutely adore this. It's a great way to handle "changing the timeline" without forcing a rework of a bunch of things. We don't need the details, we just need the effect.

[Tariyan Draegr]

My I suggest a change to the Form Mind Blade ability like the following:

Mental Weapons: Choose one of the following groups.
* Form Mind Blade, Shape Mind Blade, Throw Mind Blade, Enhanced Mind Blade
* Empowered Strikes, Enhanced Strikes, Psychokinetic Discharge
* Form Mind Bolt, Shape Mind Bolt, Launch Mind Bolt, Enhanced Mind Bolt
*Psycrystal Affinity, Psycrystal Augment
* Form Panopoly of Blades, Psychokinetic Throw, Enhanced Armory

You gain the chosen group of class features. You may take blade skills or their equivalents as though you were a member of the archetype the class feature originally came from (i.e., if you took the Form Panopoly of Blades class feature, you may choose Armory Tactics as though you were a Psychic Armory).

This replaces the Form Mind Blades, Shape Mind Blade and Throw Mind Blade and Enhanced Mind Blade class features, but count as those features for requirements and prerequisites.

This was a suggestion made by Brendan Eichler in the Time Handbook. I wanted to second this since Ssalarn deleted it for good reason but he did mention that he archived this but I figured it would be good to post this in the GitP forum for more discussion.

I do also say I LOVE this idea immensely since it allows you to get the most out of the really cool soulknife archetype but I do know that writing out all of these abilities take up word space so I wanted to suggest that you have the base wording of the current soulknife arcehtype but maybe include this as an optional rule with a link to the ability if this option seems suitable for the archetype.

[khadgar567]

@Tariyan Draegr the whole mind blade this mins blade that options gonna require a new sphere as current mind sphere is kinda focuses toward mental manipulation so how about waiting until expansion books finish and city of seven seraphs hit the shelf then ask this question again on main ask me anything threat one more time.

[Tariyan Draegr]

@Tariyan Draegr the whole mind blade this mins blade that options gonna require a new sphere as current mind sphere is kinda focuses toward mental manipulation so how about waiting until expansion books finish and city of seven seraphs hit the shelf then ask this question again on main ask me anything threat one more time.

I have no idea what you just typed but the mind blade and these options are for the soulknife presented by dreamscarred press. These options are presented in the various splat books and aren't involved with the mind sphere in anyway

[khadgar567]

I have no idea what you just typed but the mind blade and these options are for the soulknife presented by dreamscarred press. These options are presented in the various splat books and aren't involved with the mind sphere in anyway

they are psionic powers and we lack the psionic sphere in current content. so wait until expansion books and city of seven seraphs done. then ask this in the main ask me anything threat. Is what i was saying in previous post.

[Tariyan Draegr]

they are psionic powers and we lack the psionic sphere in current content. so wait until expansion books and city of seven seraphs done. then ask this in the main ask me anything threat. Is what i was saying in previous post.

You don't need a psionic sphere though. The issue that was brought up was that in its current form, the current archetype cuts off access to every other soulknife archetype which is a big part of the class. This person presented a solution and I was merely bringing attention to it since it's an issue that can be solved within the book via a rewording of the ability as suggested or as an optional rule included in this splatbook. There is no reason to wait until more expansion books and Co7S to be done to address this because this may not even be an issue to consider in those other books.

[digiman619]

Re: the idea of a "psionics sphere" because of a soulknife archetype is kinda dumb. I mean, if your game has both psionics and SoP, I'm sure there's room for crossover and for psionic rituals and incantations, but psionics is balanced by a ever increasing power point cost and PP pool. I'm sure you could try and hack a way to convert spell points into PP, but PP and SP aren't interchangeable; a spherecaster with no SP still has options, but a psion with no PP is totally tapped. Besides, outside of the Gifted Blade archetype Soulknives can't even manifest anyway.

[khadgar567]

Re: the idea of a "psionics sphere" because of a soulknife archetype is kinda dumb. I mean, if your game has both psionics and SoP, I'm sure there's room for crossover and for psionic rituals and incantations, but psionics is balanced by a ever increasing power point cost and PP pool. I'm sure you could try and hack a way to convert spell points into PP, but PP and SP aren't interchangeable; a spherecaster with no SP still has options, but a psion with no PP is totally tapped. Besides, outside of the Gifted Blade archetype Soulknives can't even manifest anyway.

Exactly my point that's why i said wait until books and city of seven seraphs to finish then ask for new sphere requests?

[Tariyan Draegr]

Exactly my point that's why i said wait until books and city of seven seraphs to finish then ask for new sphere requests?

But we're not asking for a new sphere. I don't understand what you're trying to convey as I feel as though you've missed the point entirely of what I originally posted.