The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Why not make the cane into a lightsaber? The only thing cooler than sword cane is a laser sword cane.
    I am not crazy! I prefer "reality impaired".

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    I'm pretty sure they're basically the same thing? IIRC, Dooku had a cane lightsaber and it was just a cane he pulled his hilt out of.

    Anyhow! I think I'd prefer Kikari to have had the cane and compartment the whole time, just because it makes more sense lore-wise.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    I intended to post this evening, but I got volunteered for stuff. Sigh.

    Posting delayed to tomorrow, apologies.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    I'm pretty sure they're basically the same thing? IIRC, Dooku had a cane lightsaber and it was just a cane he pulled his hilt out of.

    Anyhow! I think I'd prefer Kikari to have had the cane and compartment the whole time, just because it makes more sense lore-wise.
    Alright, then. If it's all the same to you, I'll switch that to a quick check for force-sensitives in the surrounding area. Would you like to make the opposed checks for Kikari to try and hide? If nothing else, UTF-v-UTF is a lot closer than Stealth-v-Perception was...

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Sure, why not?

    (1d20+16)[21]

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    You've... offended the forum roller somehow, I see... (1d20+19)[27] But now that I've said that, this is going to be a 1, isn't it?

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    At least i'm getting the bad ones out early.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    So, a few things.

    Spoiler: Concealed items
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    1) You can only conceal a weapon if its object size is smaller than yours. However, Lightsabers are weird, because the size in their weapon listing is about how big they are when they're activated, rather than when they're deactivated. Hiding an 'on' lightsaber on your person is about as difficult as hiding a spear, or a riot shield, and is far more difficult than hiding a deactivated lightsaber. How big is an unlit lightsaber? If we look in the holster section, it gives me the impression that an unlit lightsaber is the same size as a Tiny Weapon, or roughly the size of a dagger, or a very small pistol...which makes sense to me as far as comparing it to other weapons.

    2) BUUUUUUUUT weapon size is not reflective of weight/volume on the creature scale; rather, it is purely a reflection of how difficult it is to wield. A quarterstaff is a Large weapon, but it is not a Large object or the size of a Large creature, because Saga was designed on a bender. Looking at the Outlaw Tech section, it looks like weapons in general have an Object Size two size smaller than their Weapon size. This means that as far as the system is concerned, a spear or a riot shield or a shortsword or a lit lightsaber is a Tiny object that you can conceal on your person (albeit with difficulty), which makes sense when I picture it in my mind. Meanwhile, an unlit lightsaber is a Fine object on part with a pocket knife or a very small pistol or a cell phone.

    3) Concealed Holsters are not for concealing objects better, they are for having a place you can hide a concealed weapon where it can still be drawn easily, in exchange for making it slightly easier to find. Normally, drawing a concealed weapon is a Standard Action; however, if you're using a Concealed Holster, then for -5 to the stealth check to hide it, you can instead draw it as a move action. This is better for combat, not for item concealment.

    4) Some items, even more so than other items their size, are designed to be hidden, and gain a bonus beyond their physical size. The hold-out pistol is a good example of this. Not much more to say because it isn't relevant to Kikari's situation here, so moving on.

    5) Searching somebody for a concealed object is not merely glancing at them and saying "he's got a lightsaber up his sleeve!" although it can be if you're really good (or they're really bad). Finding a concealed object is part of the Search function of the Perception skill, and requires an intentional Full Round Action to examine the area. It covers a single square or a single cubic meter (depending on what kinda search you're doing), and you get +10 if you're getting handsy. An alternative is the Quick Search, which is more or less a glance over a 5-square area/5 cubic meter volume as a full round action, in exchange for a -10 to the check. Since this is a glance, it's a better representation of somebody just looking you over and happening to spot a concealed weapon (although because it's only a single square, they probably do it quicker - a swift action, or maybe even a free action?).

    TL;DR for just looking at somebody, doing a quick glance to see if they've got a hidden weapon, it should be that person's Stealth score, plus the object's size (+10 fine, in this case) minus concealed holster (-5), plus any bonus from the item's design (+0 in this case), vs the searcher's perception score -10 as a swift action (or the searcher can glance over 5 people in this quick manner as a full round action). All of that being said even if that's how it was being handled here, it wouldn't matter; at the end of the day, Kikari isn't good at hiding things on her person beyond being slightly sneakier and better than most people, while Zavi (among other things) is an absolute beast at perception (via UTF).

    Jhriss has a much better chance of his hidden weapon going unnoticed, but that's because smuggling things is what he's made for. +21 Stealth (+26 when his camo is able to help out), and not only does he have a Hold-Out Pistol (which has a +5 due to good design), but it's also miniaturized. This makes it a Diminutive weapon and a "one size smaller than Fine" object, giving him +10 to conceal it from weapon size (since it's an object four sizes smaller than him). So he's looking at +21 in general, another +5 if he's got his poncho helping, another +15 for this particular weapon, and maybe a -5 if he's hiding it in his concealed holster. At absolute worst, that's +31 to hide his hold-out pistol; at best, if he's hiding it not in the holster, and his poncho can help, that's +41. That means that a quick glance even from somebody as skilled as Zavi isn't going to spot Jhriss' concealed hold-out pistol in its holster, even without the poncho (+9 vs +31 doesn't go too well). But if Zavi is taking his time and getting handsy, he's gonna have +29, which makes it more of a toss-up...unless Jhriss dons the poncho and hides it somewhere besides the holster, at which point he's got +41, which still ends up giving him a 91% chance of sneaking it by.


    Spoiler: Two million credits, you say?
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    That's enough to buy a used Corellian Corvette and 89 R2 units to operate it. Now we're cruising the galaxy in style.

    Oh, we don't wanna blow a ton of money on a gigantic used ship and a bunch of droids that can't help us fight much? Okay, how about this: buy a brand new Corellian YT-1300, two R2 units to fly it (with us 5 as passengers), and then fill the cargo with 22 HK-50 models.

    Okay, so maybe that's essentially the same plan with a little more firepower, but you guys don't wanna be flying around the galaxy with a small army of assassin droids watching you sleep - not the most subtle way to reestablish our criminal empire, after all. So let's go subtle: Boba Fett (or some equivalent in this time period/galaxy sector) is a CL 15 badass. For such a badass as he, a hellishly difficult Assassination Job (like prominent senators behind several layers of security, or crime lords with small armies of minions, or Sith Lords full stop) is going to cost 34000 credits or thereabout. We can hire Boba Fett for 58 jobs of this nature.
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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Who'd use HK-50? Cheap knock-offs.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    Who'd use HK-50? Cheap knock-offs.
    The problem is that the superior HK units have programming that grows with experience...meaning the base unit is fit as a charscter, but isn't super-dangerous initially. HK-50s are built to be mid-tier badasses from the get-go, but never improve. Besides, we can't afford the perfection of HK-47, it's like a Stygian stealth field for a ship.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    For the record, AV, despite your choice of pronouns, Zavi is not a man.

    Spoiler: Concealed Items
    Show

    It's somewhat of a reach to assume that the lightsaber size can be inferred from the size of it's 'holster' - especially as lightsaber holsters are basically just clips (instead of holders containing most of the lightsaber hilt) and smaller relative to the weapon's size than holsters for other types of weapons.

    Using the Outlaw Tech's size guide, an unlit standard lightsaber would likely come under the 1-1.9kg / small/diminutive category (matching it's 1kg listed weight). Which matches what I remember of lightsaber hilts rather better than being 'around the size of a pocketknife or cellphone' - single-bladed lightsabers have two-handed hilts (with some hilt left over even with two hands on it) that can be wielded one-handed because the lack of physical blade keeps the overall weight down, not because they're small. So Kikari would be getting a 5 point bonus, exactly balanced out by the penalty for the concealed holster. (A Short Lightsaber, on the other hand, would rank in as 'fine' and give the extra 5 point bonus to the stealth roll.)

    Spotting concealed items actually comes under two sections of the Perception skill - Notice Targets can do it as well. (That the rules for finding concealed items turn up at twice, 2 paragraphs apart, in the same skill, only reinforces your 'bender' design theory.) The Notice Targets bit adds the following:
    If you win the opposed check, you notice the concealed object. If you win the opposed check by 5 or more, you can tell what kind of object is concealed (for example, distinguishing a blaster from a datapad).
    Which I'll admit I didn't remember earlier. But hey, good to know what the actual rule is.

    As to which 'search' Zavi would have used, the answer is 'regular'. Aside from me not typically using things from Scum and Villainy (like the Quick Search) unless I was deliberately looking for them, it explicitly covers more squares instead of saving time - and even if we did homerule in a timesaving version, why would Zavi use it? A full round is only, what, 6 seconds long? (It's 10 rounds to the minute like 3.5e, right?). Zavi's been talking way longer than that, and talking doesn't interrupt an action. She had plenty of time to check Kikari out properly.

    That said, even if we take all of your conclusions as gospel, Zavi would still have spotted the lightsaber (albeit not quite well enough to tell it was a lightsaber.)



    Although you're more or less correct on the permutations of Zavi searching Jhriss, I doubt you'd get to include the bonus from the Poncho while being frisked (since you have to be willing, pinned or helpless, she'd be able to either check under the poncho or just remove entirely for the search). Still favours Jhriss most of the time, though, just not to a 91% success rate.

  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by whoiam View Post
    For the record, AV, despite your choice of pronouns, Zavi is not a man.
    Ah, apologies. I'll try to be better about that going forward.

    It's somewhat of a reach to assume that the lightsaber size can be inferred from the size of it's 'holster' - especially as lightsaber holsters are basically just clips (instead of holders containing most of the lightsaber hilt) and smaller relative to the weapon's size than holsters for other types of weapons.

    Using the Outlaw Tech's size guide, an unlit standard lightsaber would likely come under the 1-1.9kg / small/diminutive category (matching it's 1kg listed weight). Which matches what I remember of lightsaber hilts rather better than being 'around the size of a pocketknife or cellphone' - single-bladed lightsabers have two-handed hilts (with some hilt left over even with two hands on it) that can be wielded one-handed because the lack of physical blade keeps the overall weight down, not because they're small. So Kikari would be getting a 5 point bonus, exactly balanced out by the penalty for the concealed holster. (A Short Lightsaber, on the other hand, would rank in as 'fine' and give the extra 5 point bonus to the stealth roll.)
    Also certainly a fair way to look at it. I guess part of the issue is that it's right on the edge by both size and weight, not to mention that those size rules aren't exactly super-consistent (since size has more to do with Volume than Weight, and density variation causes...issues):

    Spoiler: All Examples
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    Advanced Melee Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Vibrodagger 1.0 Tiny Small
    Electrostaff 2.0 Large Medium
    Double Vibroblade 4.0 Large Medium
    Shockstaff 3.0 Large Medium
    Vibrosword 3.0 Large Medium
    Vibrorapier 1.4 Medium Small
    Shockwhip 2.3 Small Medium
    San-Ni Staff 2.2 Large Medium
    Shock Stick 1.4 Large Medium
    Static Pike 1.8 Large Medium
    Vibrolance 2.0 Large Medium
    Electropole 1.3 Medium Small
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Exotic Melee Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Amphistaff 2.0 Large Medium
    Cesta 1.8 Large Medium
    Arg'garok 2.0 Large Medium
    Shyarn 1.0 Tiny Small
    Zhaboka 2.0 Large Medium
    Felucian Skullblade 0.5 Small Tiny
    Neuronic Whip 0.5 Medium Tiny
    Ryyk Blade 1.5 Medium Small
    Garrote 0.5 Small Tiny
    Gruush 2.0 Large Medium
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Exotic Ranged Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Flamethrower 7.0 Medium Large
    Aurial Blaster 1.0 Small Medium
    Sith Lanvarok 5.8 Medium Large
    Deck Sweeper 4.5 Large Medium
    Neural Inhibitor 1.0 Medium Small
    Concealed Dart Launcher 0.5 Small Tiny
    Squib Tensor Rifle 7.2 Medium Large
    Verpine Shatter Gun 1.0 Medium Small
    Bo-Rifle 8.0 Medium Large
    Special Operations Blaster System 5.0 Medium Large
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Grenades Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Thermal Detonator 1.0 Tiny Small
    Remote Detonator 1.0 Tiny Small
    Electronet 5.0 Medium Large
    EMP Grenade 0.5 Small Tiny
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Heavy Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Grenade Launcher 5.0 Medium Large
    E-Web Repeating Blaster 38.0 Huge Large
    E-Web Missile Launcher 42.0 Huge Large
    Heavy Blaster Cannon 22.0 Huge Large
    Merr-Sonn PLX-2M Portable Missile Launcher1 48.0 Large Large
    Flamethrower2 0.5 Large Tiny
    Tactical Tractor Beam 25.0 Huge Large
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Lightsabers3 Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Lightsaber 1.0 Medium Small
    Short Lightsaber 0.5 Small Tiny
    Double-Bladed Lightsaber 2.0 Large Medium
    Lightfoil 0.5 Medium Tiny
    Archaic Lightfoil 0.5 Medium Tiny
    Crossguard Lightsaber 0.7 Medium Tiny
    Dual-Phase Lightsaber 0.5 Medium Tiny
    Dueling Lightsaber 0.3 Medium Tiny
    Great Lightsaber 5.0 Large Large
    Guard Shoto 1.0 Small Small
    Lightsaber Pike 2.0 Large Medium
    Lightwhip 1.0 Medium Small
    Long-Handle Lightsaber 2.0 Large Medium
    Modern Lightfoil 0.5 Medium Tiny
    Retrosaber 0.8 Medium Tiny
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Mines Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Antivehicle Mine 0.5 Diminutive Tiny
    Antipersonnel Mine 1.0 Tiny Small
    Detonite Cord 1.0 Tiny Small
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Pistols Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Heavy Blaster Pistol 1.3 Medium Small
    Sonic Stunner 1.0 Tiny Small
    Heavy Sonic Pistol 1.0 Medium Small
    Merr-Sonn Model 434 1.2 Medium Small
    Bluebolt Blaster Pistol 1.6 Medium Small
    Snap-Shot Blaster Pistol 1.0 Tiny Small
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Rifles Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Sonic Rifle 5.0 Medium Large
    DSR-X Disruptor Rifle 6.0 Medium Large
    Snare Rifle 5.0 Medium Large
    ARC-9965 5.0 Medium Large
    Double-Barreled Blaster Carbine 1.9 Medium Small
    SG-4 Blaster Rifle 5.0 Medium Large
    Interchangeable Weapon System 5.0 Medium Large
    Variable Blaster Rifle 5.0 Medium Large
    Concussion Rifle 2.1 Large Medium
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Simple Melee Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Club/Baton 0.5 Small Tiny
    Knife 1.0 Tiny Small
    Quarterstaff 1.8 Large Medium
    Spear 1.5 Medium Small
    Stun Baton 0.5 Small Tiny
    Riot Shield 6.0 Medium Large
    Dire Sword 4.0 Large Medium
    Double-Bladed Sword 2.0 Large Medium
    Wan-Shen 2.0 Large Medium
    -------------------------------------------------------- -------- ---------------- ----------------
    Simple Ranged Weapons Weight Stated Size OT Size
    Sling 0.3 Small Tiny
    Bow 1.4 Medium Small
    Net 4.5 Large Medium
    Razor Bug 0.5 Small Tiny
    Thud Bug 0.5 Small Tiny
    Repeating Crossbow 1.2 Medium Small
    Crossbow 1.8 Medium Small


    10/22 Advanced Melee Weapon sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    7/17 Exotic Melee Weapon sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    10/20 Exotic Ranged Weapons sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    11/15 Grenade sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    12/17 Heavy Weapon sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    2/15 Lightsaber sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    6/15 Lightsaber sizes are in line with OT guidelines if the hilt is one size smaller than weapon size.
    7/15 Lightsaber sizes are in line with OT guidelines if the hilt is two sizes smaller than weapon size.
    7/11 Mine sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    25/31 Pistol sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    30/39 Rifle sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    17/26 Simple Melee Weapon sizes are in line with OT guidelines.
    4/11 Simple Rifle Weapon sizes are in line with OT guidelines.

    1: There is one item in that table that is technically the correct size, but it's mentioned for another reason: while every single one of the Huge weapons actually fall into OT Large, there's one Large weapons that's right on the edge of being OT Huge.

    2: Given that its frickin' ammunition weighs 20 kg, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the half a kilogram the Flame Cannon allegedly weighs is a misprint. I'm also gonna assume that it's actual weight is appropriate for a Large weapon. It's in the book, too, not just wikis (although fun fact, the wiki has it listed as huge, maybe for non-tripod size? Idk, but all the other Huges are Large weight, so... *shrug*).

    3: Most lightsabers have a listed weight that would indicate a size one smaller than their weapon size, so I think the weight is just the hilt (and the blade, while taking up space and making it more difficult to wield, doesn't weigh anything), so I won't be including those on the list. Rather, I am pretending that all Lightsaber official sizes are one smaller, and seeing what's wrong then.


    FWIW, while most of the "one size difference" sabers at the low-weight end of their smaller size, core at wholy consistent with this assumption, and the "two size difference" and "no size difference" sabers are scattered through the rest of Saga.

    Spotting concealed items actually comes under two sections of the Perception skill - Notice Targets can do it as well. (That the rules for finding concealed items turn up at twice, 2 paragraphs apart, in the same skill, only reinforces your 'bender' design theory.) The Notice Targets bit adds the following: Which I'll admit I didn't remember earlier. But hey, good to know what the actual rule is.
    Certainly useful for going forward, yeah.

    As to which 'search' Zavi would have used, the answer is 'regular'. Aside from me not typically using things from Scum and Villainy (like the Quick Search) unless I was deliberately looking for them, it explicitly covers more squares instead of saving time - and even if we did homerule in a timesaving version, why would Zavi use it? A full round is only, what, 6 seconds long? (It's 10 rounds to the minute like 3.5e, right?). Zavi's been talking way longer than that, and talking doesn't interrupt an action. She had plenty of time to check Kikari out properly.

    That said, even if we take all of your conclusions as gospel, Zavi would still have spotted the lightsaber (albeit not quite well enough to tell it was a lightsaber.)
    Not saying she wouldn't have spotted it - the dice definitely weighed in on that argument. I was just trying to take part in the discussion on hiding weapons on one's person, since it's rather relevant to me going forward.

    Although you're more or less correct on the permutations of Zavi searching Jhriss, I doubt you'd get to include the bonus from the Poncho while being frisked (since you have to be willing, pinned or helpless, she'd be able to either check under the poncho or just remove entirely for the search). Still favours Jhriss most of the time, though, just not to a 91% success rate.
    Yeah, that's probably the most reaching part of it. I could certainly argue the poncho helps for the "somebody's looking at me to try and spot hidden weapons" uses that operate from a distance, but it's a real stretch to assume it would help against a pat-down (like, only thing I can think is if it's floofy enough that searching through it's like looking through a petticoat, but I'm pretty sure ponchos don't have that problem). Still you're right, +36 vs +29 wins ~77% of the time, so it's not that much worse in the long run. It also helps Jhriss that he can hide things as a swift action, and can take 10 even under pressure.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2018-10-13 at 02:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Just for clarity, the wiki isn't 100% reliable. The Inquisitorious and Pistol Lightsabers are fan-made and some crafty little editors have edited pages to refer to their homebrew content without noting it as such (Only on the page itself). For example, references to homebrew base classes and so on. I figure that there may be a few typos as a result of their editing style.
    Last edited by Hazuki; 2018-10-12 at 08:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    Just for clarity, the wiki isn't 100% reliable. The Inquisitorious and Pistol Lightsabers are fan-made and some crafty little editors have edited pages to refer to their homebrew content without noting it as such (Only on the page itself). For example, references to homebrew base classes and so on. I figure that there may be a few typos as a result of their editing style.
    After checking the books more thoroughly, I have two things to report:

    1) Where the wiki is laid out as "source --> weapons in alphabetical order", but the books are laid out in "source --> weapon size --> weapons in alphabetical order", meaning that looking over the books, I can glance at the weights for all the alleged Small or Medium or Large weapons in a particular category at once, which is much better for spotting the weights that aren't in the right category.

    2) Not only were all the weapons in my chart had the same size/weight in the book as the wiki had, but it turns out I actually missed a couple here and there.

    The new examples have been added, and the homebrew examples have been removed.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    Can Gial do that? And how quickly?
    How quickly I don't know, but...if he can make mines out of torpedoes, I think he can make a hole inside a cane.

    Also (though I don't remember the exact DC) I think he can quite easily add the Miniaturised upgrade to the lightsaber, if you want it.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperbolic sine View Post
    How quickly I don't know, but...if he can make mines out of torpedoes, I think he can make a hole inside a cane.

    Also (though I don't remember the exact DC) I think he can quite easily add the Miniaturised upgrade to the lightsaber, if you want it.
    Time isn’t really an issue right now, you guys are going to be holed up for at least a week.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperbolic sine View Post
    How quickly I don't know, but...if he can make mines out of torpedoes, I think he can make a hole inside a cane.

    Also (though I don't remember the exact DC) I think he can quite easily add the Miniaturised upgrade to the lightsaber, if you want it.
    Thanks for the offer! I think the only upgrade Kikari would actually want would be Cloaked, but I think that she'd be wary of lending her lightsaber to anyone in general, let alone a scoundrel she just met.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperbolic sine View Post
    How quickly I don't know, but...if he can make mines out of torpedoes, I think he can make a hole inside a cane.

    Also (though I don't remember the exact DC) I think he can quite easily add the Miniaturised upgrade to the lightsaber, if you want it.
    I tend to avoid Miniaturized on melee weapons because it gives them another debuff for nothing...although admittedly, I'd need to check if that debuff applies to lightsabers.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Turns out I was, in fact, actually thinking of Cloaked.

    Though this begs the question, can a non force-sensitive technician fiddle with lightsabers? I mean, RAW probably yes, but since you need UTF to build them and stuff...
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperbolic sine View Post
    Turns out I was, in fact, actually thinking of Cloaked.

    Though this begs the question, can a non force-sensitive technician fiddle with lightsabers? I mean, RAW probably yes, but since you need UTF to build them and stuff...
    I’m going to say yes unless anyone has a really good reason why not.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    The only precedent I can think of would be in KOTOR II - where Bao-Dur was able to do prep work for the Exile to build/rebuild their lightsaber, but couldn't finish it off himself. Which would suggest something along the lines of 'Gial can make cool lightsaber mods, but someone with the requisite 7 levels of Jedi (i.e. Kikari, since Zavi dipped too much to qualify) is needed to do the final assembly once he's done'.

    On a related note, does Zavi qualify for a free lightsaber? I don't recall the rules explicitly saying that you have to have taken Jedi at level 1 to get the saber, just that you 'start play' with it. Admittedly, my read was 'no', which is why she doesn't currently have one. *shrug*

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by whoiam View Post
    The only precedent I can think of would be in KOTOR II - where Bao-Dur was able to do prep work for the Exile to build/rebuild their lightsaber, but couldn't finish it off himself. Which would suggest something along the lines of 'Gial can make cool lightsaber mods, but someone with the requisite 7 levels of Jedi (i.e. Kikari, since Zavi dipped too much to qualify) is needed to do the final assembly once he's done'.

    On a related note, does Zavi qualify for a free lightsaber? I don't recall the rules explicitly saying that you have to have taken Jedi at level 1 to get the saber, just that you 'start play' with it. Admittedly, my read was 'no', which is why she doesn't currently have one. *shrug*
    My take is you have to start at level 1 Jedi to get a free lightsaber.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundercracker View Post
    I’m going to say yes unless anyone has a really good reason why not.
    The Tapani light foils indicate that non-sensitives can indeed build an entire lightsaber, it's just not as good. Which may be because the Tapani artisans are cranking these things out for profit, whereas the Jedi and Sith are both assembling weapons for personal use. Kind of like the difference between a Ford Mustang which rolls off the assembly line versus a Lamborghini which is built by hand.

    EDIT:
    but someone with the requisite 7 levels of Jedi (i.e. Kikari, since Zavi dipped too much to qualify) is needed to do the final assembly once he's done'.
    You don't need to have any levels in Jedi to build a lightsaber. The requirements are laid out in the sidebar on page 40-7 heroic levels, force sensitivity, and WP(Lightsabers). So my reading is all the UtF checks are needed to create an attuned lightsaber. Just building a lightsaber could be done with the build an object function of the Mechanics skill.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    What are the votes so far? I saw two for Syndicate and one for Hutt.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomLunatic View Post
    EDIT:You don't need to have any levels in Jedi to build a lightsaber. The requirements are laid out in the sidebar on page 40-7 heroic levels, force sensitivity, and WP(Lightsabers). So my reading is all the UtF checks are needed to create an attuned lightsaber. Just building a lightsaber could be done with the build an object function of the Mechanics skill.
    Going back and re-reading that section... Yup, any heroic levels, not Jedi. My mistake!

    But no, the UTF check is not for attuning the lightsaber. The writeup's pretty clear - you make the UTF check for assembly, and have to dismantle and reassemble it if you fail (which takes a day). So anyone trying to assemble the lightsaber without being able to make the UTF check won't ever quite put it together correctly... even if they've made all the parts.

    Attunement comes after assembly and costs a force point (but doesn't require another UTF check).

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by whoiam View Post
    Going back and re-reading that section... Yup, any heroic levels, not Jedi. My mistake!

    But no, the UTF check is not for attuning the lightsaber. The writeup's pretty clear - you make the UTF check for assembly, and have to dismantle and reassemble it if you fail (which takes a day). So anyone trying to assemble the lightsaber without being able to make the UTF check won't ever quite put it together correctly... even if they've made all the parts.

    Attunement comes after assembly and costs a force point (but doesn't require another UTF check).
    That's not entirely true, although it essentially is. Use The Force is a very weird skill that requires the Force Sensitivity feat to use at all. However, UTF is not a Trained Only skill - most of its direct uses are Trained Only, but they're specifically called out as such. That means that any use of UTF not marked as Trained Only isn't and can be used by "anybody"...as long as they have the feat that lets them mess around with the force.

    This creates a very weird edge case, where a character who is Force Sensitive, but has no training in the use of the force, but wants to make a lightsaber, can stumble their way through the process. It's a DC 20 check, and being lvl 7 means a +3 to the check, so the only way you could fail it at that point is if your Cha is 3 or lower, and even that can't stop you forever. Cha 10 and lvl 7 and no training means it takes you an average of 5 days to complete the project, but still.
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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    We good for a time skip to get you guys out of the safe house and back into the thick of things?
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    Malcolm Reynolds avatar by Strawberries

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    ...Did we actually agree what we were going to do once we left the safehouse? I didn't think we had yet...

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    I don't think we even have a consensus on who to go after.

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    Default Re: Episode II: The Gathering Storm OOC Thread 2

    I’ll take that as a no. :)

    Last post is mine so give a shout if you need anything
    Last edited by Thundercracker; 2018-10-16 at 08:19 AM.
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