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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Battlemind Link - Custom Errata for player use.

    So I have a player who has chosen this spell. I’ve seen very little about clarifications and what I have read is not in any common agreement and I would like your opinions of some changes I wanted to make just to clarify the spell but not endanger it.

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-sp...ttlemind-link/

    Spoiler: My errata
    Show
    You fuse your thoughts with an ally’s, allowing the two of you to fight in tandem, perfectly coordinated. If not in combat you and target ally each roll 1d20 and you take the higher roll as well the higher of the initiative modifiers. This will result in both of you having the same initiative. Use standard initiative rules to resolve that tie. If this is a tie with another creature in combat, use the same rules but you both move as one to determine your order in initiative.

    However, during the heat of battle whoever has the lower initiative score increase it to the others and will be placed next to other. This will result in both player’s having the same initiative. Use standard initiative rules to resolve the tie. If this is a tie with another creature in combat, use the same rules but you both move as one to determine your order in initiative. This has three effects

    Melee: If you both make melee attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and use the higher result for that attack roll. Continue this up to the number of attacks you can make with one full round action.

    Ranged If you both make ranged attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and use the higher of the two dice for either attack rolls. Continue this up to the number of attacks you can make with one full round action.

    Spell: If you both cast spells and target the same area or same creature, affected creatures take a -2 penalty on their saving through against the spell. Continue this up to the number of spells you can cast with one full round action.

    If an effect changes an initiative score, you can’t see each other, or either of you is unconscious or helpless the benefits are lost.


    Spoiler: My errata DRAFT 2
    Show

    Changes Bolded

    You fuse your thoughts with an ally’s, allowing the two of you to fight in tandem, perfectly coordinated. If not in combat you and target ally each roll 1d20 and you take the higher roll as well the higher of the initiative modifiers. This will result in both of you having the same initiative.

    However, during the heat of battle whoever has the lower initiative score increase it to the others and will be placed next to other in the turn order. This will result in both player’s having the same initiative.

    You act at the same time. You roll at the same time. You declare your actions to the Game Master and then resolve those actions at the same time.

    This has three effects

    Melee: For each melee attack, you and target ally make an attack roll. Use which ever result is higher. You may continue this up to the number of attacks you can make with one full round action.

    Ranged: For each ranged attack, you and target ally make an attack roll. Use which ever result is higher. You may continue this up to the number of attacks you can make with one full round action.

    Spell: If you both cast spells and target the same area or same creature, affected creatures take a -2 penalty on their saving through against the spell. Continue this up to the number of spells you can cast with one full round action.

    For Example: You want to attack with your sling. Your target ally wants to attack with their bow. You can attack two times in a full around action, your target ally can attack three times. This will offer the benefits of the spell for up to attacks this round. You and target ally make normal attack rolls and take the highest result for two attacks.

    If an effect changes an initiative score, you can’t see each other, or either of you is unconscious or helpless the benefits are lost until these changes are rectified.




    So that’s what I got. I’m sure there may be some holes in it still but I tried my best to keep it a decent spell and make it understandable. If there is a different way to rewrite it please reply. I’d like to present this to my player next week.
    Last edited by killem2; 2018-03-03 at 11:49 PM.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2015

    Default Re: Battlemind Link - Custom Errata for player use.

    I'm not sure your erratta resolves the primary issue with the spell: namely that it is hard to work in a turn based system. Consider the Attack option. Ok, you and your linked ally are going to attack the same creature. You have initiative so you full attack first. You roll die and your ally rolls a die then you pick which one to use. It's all great until you drop the bad guy on your second attack. Now what? Does your ally have to attack the downed creature in order for you to get the bonus? Ok, let's say the bad guy is still up and now your ally is attacking. Do you both roll again or is he supposed to have written the rolls down so that he knows what he's got?

    The mechanic requiring you both to take the same action against the same foe to get any benefit is too fiddly and doesn't play nicely with the turn based system.

    If I were writing unofficial erratta, I'd let you roll twice and take the better number whenever you attack a guy your partner attacked in the last round or a guy who is threatened by your partner. For spells, make it work the same but the foe needs to roll twice and take the worst if you cast a spell targeting a foe who was targeted by your partners spell within one round.

    That's a more significant rewrite and changes the power of the spell a bit but at least it is clear how it works within the turn based d&d system.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Battlemind Link - Custom Errata for player use.

    Thanks Elder_Basilisk,

    Since there is no right or wrong answer when dealing with custom stuff I'll do my best to reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    I'm not sure your erratta resolves the primary issue with the spell: namely that it is hard to work in a turn based system. Consider the Attack option. Ok, you and your linked ally are going to attack the same creature. You have initiative so you full attack first. You roll die and your ally rolls a die then you pick which one to use. It's all great until you drop the bad guy on your second attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    Now what?
    Instead of worrying about the intricacies of turn based let back up to the initiative. Because all we are really trying to do is get both the caster and the ally to do stuff at the same time. If we can have immediate actions in this game we can make this happen, right?

    Spoiler: changes
    Show
    You act at the same time. You roll at the same time. You declare your actions to the Game Master and then resolve those actions at the same time.
    For Example: You want to attack with your sling. Your target ally wants to attack with their bow. You can attack two times in a full around action, your target ally can attack three times. This will offer the benefits of the spell for up to attacks this round. You and target ally make normal attack rolls and take the highest result for two attacks.



    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    Does your ally have to attack the downed creature in order for you to get the bonus?
    Nope, with the above changes, the duo in tandem can simply redirect their next attack (if any) to another valid target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    Ok, let's say the bad guy is still up and now your ally is attacking. Do you both roll again or is he supposed to have written the rolls down so that he knows what he's got?
    I can change the wording to be clearer but I intended this to be a roll for each attack separately and take the best sort of thing. If you have wording that would help I can use it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    The mechanic requiring you both to take the same action against the same foe to get any benefit is too fiddly and doesn't play nicely with the turn based system.
    After looking at it, I see what you mean and I have changed it to have both parties just act at the same time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    If I were writing unofficial erratta, I'd let you roll twice and take the better number whenever you attack a guy your partner attacked in the last round or a guy who is threatened by your partner. For spells, make it work the same but the foe needs to roll twice and take the worst if you cast a spell targeting a foe who was targeted by your partners spell within one round.
    Yeah That was my intention I think my wording is just cluttered and do you mean they reroll their saving throw? Is that needed? Would the -2 be clear enough, I’m not sure adding a complete reroll for the enemy is close to the same effect in terms of power level. A reroll is a powerful mechanic and probably why they didn't make it that way to start.

    Thematically is matches the other mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elder_Basilisk View Post
    That's a more significant rewrite and changes the power of the spell a bit but at least it is clear how it works within the turn based d&d system.
    Thanks, I think can make it work!


    https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-in...o-headed-giant

    A turn based game that actually allows people to act at the same time. I'm not saying it's an exact science but you it what I mean :D
    Last edited by killem2; 2018-03-03 at 08:13 AM.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Battlemind Link - Custom Errata for player use.

    Okay well I didn't get as many replies as I thought it would but I took what I have here to my players and they genuinely we're excited about the changes it kind of got a little bit of a buff with the addition of bringing a lower person to the same initiative in the middle of combat but these guys are all past level 10 now so I don't know how game-breaking that is going to be at this point.


    The players and I kind of agree that it's already gone. 3 ways to end the effect and there's also a multitude of other Battlefield conditions that can cause people not to be able to attack at the same time or do the same action at the same time such as if you get staggered you're going to be limited idiot nauseated that's going to change something and they even brought up if they got feared one person would be running away and it would interrupt what they're trying to do so overall I think it's going to be fine I'll let the community know how the spell works and practice and if any of you have success with it let me know.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

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