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2018-04-11, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Seoul
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Looks like a nice template for a Crusader too.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2018-04-11, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Tainted Raver: Set taint score, but no immunity. Same restrictions to Humanoid/Monstrous Humanoid, permanent Rage is okay, Madness is the usual mixed bag, and moderate fast healing. Keep in mind that this is NOT an undead template-so you get Fast Healing, Rage, Madness, set Taint with no immunity, and that is it. No way is that worth +2 LA; there are already unmodified templates that are far more powerful, and relative to our adjustments here, is not nearly worth +2.
So, I say weak +1 LA. This template pigeonholes you into a handful of builds, and that LA is contingent on avoiding the worst Taint rolls; bad rolls and you might be barely be above LA +0.
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2018-04-11, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- In the Playground, duh.
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
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2018-04-11, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Losing a spell level is potentially worth it, actually. The +6 Charisma gives plenty of bonus slots, while the bonus feats from Taint can give metamagics to help quite significantly, and those bonus slots can plug into optional metamagic variants. People need to actually bother remembering that higher-level spells are rarely needed by intentional design of the game. Losing spell levels impacts tier, yes, but tier is a function of versatility more than power, and trading versatility for endurance is entirely valid as a character choice.
All things considered, +2 LA isn't unusable, owing to the presence of plenty of things to make up for the disadvantages. At LA +2, you lose rather little with fitting build options. A Sorcadin, for instance, loses out on higher level slots and spells known, but gets a considerable number more lower level slots and multiple feats with which to make up the shortfall, as well as a damn impressive Will save.
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2018-04-11, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Yes, but not for +6 charisma, and not on a sorcadin. You don't get enough slots from that, and you need those spells (haste, draconic polymorph, arcane spellsurge--there's always one you need next). An extra +6 to your casting stat works out to +3/4 spell slot of each level (assuming you had enough to get one in the first place). Getting +2 levels of casting works out to six extra slots, of which at least three are of a new, higher level (unless you already had 18th-level casting or better).
If you're comparing 16th-level casting @ 38 Charisma to 18th-level casting @ 16 + 5 + 5 + 6 = 32 Charisma, the comparison is between 6/10/10/9/9/9/9/7/5/-- and 6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/6/4. That's 74 spell slots totalling 284 spell levels versus 75 spell slots totalling 317 spell levels (counting cantrips as 1/2).
I think that's enough reason to once more affirm the old rule: Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels!Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2018-04-12, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
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2018-04-12, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Why am I here?
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2018-04-12, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Last edited by javcs; 2018-04-12 at 11:35 AM.
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2018-04-12, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
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- Karrnath
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2018-04-12, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2018-04-12, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
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2018-04-12, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Why am I here?
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2018-04-12, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- NYC
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Unholy Scion... yeah.
Unholy Scion is legit horror, on several levels -- and since it's in the horror book, I'd argue that it's on point.I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-04-12, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
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2018-04-12, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2018-04-12, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
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- Canterlot, Equestria
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Princess Celestia's Homebrew Corner
Old classes, new classes, and more!
Thanks to AsteriskAmp for the avatar!
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2018-04-12, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Oh, it's certainly not out of place (I mean, it'd probably not be too out of place in BoVD, either).
It's just a little, I don't know ... wtf? Who came up with this?
Especially when the DM springs a particularly young Unholy Scion on the party. That can just get all kinds of mindscrewy. Very much a niche style of game where it's appropriate to use.
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2018-04-13, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Unholy Scion
Unholy scions are the result of humanoids (or rarely, animals) being possessed by evil forces while in the womb, causing them to develop a sadistic disposition as well as supernatural powers. Because that's not quite creepy enough, the powers manifest before the child is born, and its mother is unable to do anything about it despite being aware of it all. Oh, and the infant soul is irretrievably consumed and lost in this process.
That said, I'm going to assume any unholy scions played by people will be at least young adults (or at least, using the stats of one), simply because I'm not aware of any child or fetus statblocks one could apply the template to. It makes it a lot easier to rate, that's for sure.
First of the template's features are a type change to Outsider with the Native and Evil subtypes. It's all of the FoP-qualifying goodness without the banishment vulnerability, what's not to love?
Scions also get to add their charisma modifier to AC as a deflection bonus (obviously great), are immune to poison and mind-affecting effects, get SR 10+HD, have some energy resistances, and receive Fast Healing 4. There's also DR 5 (that increases to DR 10 at 12 HD) but it's overcome by magic or good, making it not that useful.
Less great are the natural weapons (1d4 claws, notable only for being indistinguishable from normal fingers). They don't even get two claws, and apparently can't use it with a one-handed weapon either.
Ability-wise, the scion's mental scores improve considerably (especially intelligence), as does its dexterity.
Scions get several special attacks and qualities worth noting. Familial charm is unrateable, because depending on the base creature you either get a worthless commoner or a dire tiger for a companion. Unholy Strike is interesting, and pretty cool against good opponents, but not a major factor (remember, Evil characters are still quite likely to fight more Neutral and Evil opponents than Good ones).
Finally, there's the Scion's numerous SLAs, which function like a half-fey's or half-fiends: the more HD it has, the more of them it can use. Overall quality of the SLAs is pretty good (Baleful Polymorph, Gate, Major Image, True Seeing, Protection From Good).
Comparing this template to the half-fiend, it gives a slightly better type, doesn't grant wings, gives a better AC boost, has worse stat adjustments, slightly worse DR, better immunities, and better SLAs. I think +3* is completely okay to assign here, but do discuss.Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-04-13 at 12:16 PM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2018-04-13, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
If I were Inevitability, I'd assume that the Scion's mother wasn't a powerful former adventurer, just a random peasant woman or maybe some lord's daughter with an unhealthy fascination with Abyssal magic. If you don't let the Unholy Scion be the spawn of a demon and an epic-level archmage, it's strictly worse than getting Leadership as a bonus feat (no followers and Mom probably doesn't level up with you).
I can't explain the +5 LA, but the unholy scion feels like it fits in with the inspirations for D&D's inspirations more than D&D itself.
There are plenty of medieval stories about demons getting into all sorts of shenanigans with mortals; it wouldn't surprise me if there was some tale of a woman trying to exert sexual agency and getting punished by an incubus, getting saddled with a demon-child who took over her mind until the cuckolded husband destroyed the foul thing (and possibly the mother, depending on how much victim-blaming the author felt like doing).
I could definitely see a WotC author reading a story like that and going "This would fit perfectly into our new horror sourcebook, if I strip out the obvious misogyny!"
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2018-04-13, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Unholy Scions: solid SLAs, immunity to mind influencing effects, fast healing, good abilities, and a grab bag of other bits...initial though would be LA +2; good but not great, with enough accumulated bonuses to be very good but petering out at higher levels, when your SR caps and you really start feeling those missing HD. However, there are some real show stoppers in the SLAs-Major Image, Dominate Person, Gate, Baleful Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, True Seeing without the very expensive components...all easily overlaid by a competent caster, but can be put in the hands of another build entirely while keeping acceptable CL and DCs.
Overall, I would say strong LA +2. The DR is almost worthless, negligible natural weapons, the mandatory SR caps at HD 25, the Resistances are a curiosity at best, and it still locks you into Humanoid, limiting the potential.Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2018-04-13 at 10:59 AM.
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2018-04-14, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2018
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I'm just here to say I've been reading these threads for a while, am a big fan, and was inspired to join these forums on the basis of them alone.
Pathfinder has the Young template, which might be worth considering for discussing young characters. I'd link it, but I can't due to post count. It's +2 DEX, -2 STR/CHA/WIS, and insane class restrictions most players ignore.
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2018-04-14, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Kinda weird that Charisma takes a hit. Whether Charisma is force of personality or just getting people to do what they want, I'd expect kids to have at least average Charisma. Intelligence, on the other hand...
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2018-04-14, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
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- Char
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Not to be mean, but this thread is covering 3.5 books at Inevitability's discretion. Bringing up other things to rate or doing his job for him is frowned upon and off topic. You can suggest what he should cover next, but that is the extent of our power to choose.
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2018-04-14, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
shipping Sabine/Vaarsuvius
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2018-04-14, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
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- Char
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Probably due to tiredness, but it wasn't super obvious to my mind that that's what was being referred to. It seemed more like bringing up something to be rated by the thread. I just remember one time someone else opened with basically the same thing, and went on to do a full LA write up for, wolves I think? It was a few years ago now. I just didn't want a repeat of that happening.
Also that most of the assumptions have been mostly 3.5, so the jump to PF confused me yet further.
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2018-04-14, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Why am I here?
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Hmm... what if I wanted to play a half-dragon unholy scion egg? There are stats for dragon eggs in one of the books, right? If that results in an invalid combo, what about a kobold or lizardfolk egg?
"He's one bad egg."
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2018-04-14, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Seems like it'd be morally easier to Smite an external fetus, with less overall horror invoked.
The fact that the egg is outside the mother also makes the Mom-inion thing less intuitive than the usual setup.
Finally, there's a risk that one of the PCs develops a taste for hard-boiled scion, which would just defeat the horror aspect entirely.
That's terrible.
You're terrible.
(I wish I'd thought of that.)I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-04-14, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Humanoid or Animal only.
Also, that's terrible.
--
If I were to allow a child/adolescent in one of my games, I would likely employ the modifiers as developed for the A Game of Thrones d20/Sword and Sorcery supplement from Guardians of Order. Admittedly, for those rules, "Very Young(Below 7)" only has adjustments of "Discuss with the GM".
But I'd only allow a child as a PC for a small subset of games. Most of which I probably wouldn't be running anyways. An Unholy Scion would be allowable for a somewhat wider set of games, but still, I'd be very cautious about an Unholy Scion PC.
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2018-04-15, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
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Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Would people prefer to see MM3 or Tome of Magic next?
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
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2018-04-15, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006