The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    At this point I'm really only reading it to see how it ends even though I doubt it will be satisfying in the slightest. It had a lot of promise. At least we've got Dr. Stone and One Piece.
    My experience after the Goldy Pond arc felt like Bleach all over again after its Soul Society arc, it's not even engaging enough for me to discuss on a week to week basis. Same goes for Dr. Stone to me after the Stone Wars concluded. It's sad because I felt these two recent mangas really did a good job trying to break the shounen mold.

    AssClass was a fun read from start to finish, but I wonder how much of that is just due to being able to binge read it to the end.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    My experience after the Goldy Pond arc felt like Bleach all over again after its Soul Society arc, it's not even engaging enough for me to discuss on a week to week basis. Same goes for Dr. Stone to me after the Stone Wars concluded. It's sad because I felt these two recent mangas really did a good job trying to break the shounen mold.

    AssClass was a fun read from start to finish, but I wonder how much of that is just due to being able to binge read it to the end.
    Goldy Pond had some of the rot in it, all the new characters really ushered it in.

    Dr. Stone, you should give another shot. The space between story arcs was a little slow but they're on a new mystery and it feels like the Stone War arc all over again.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Imagine if this series had good pacing. Imagine if we got all the proper build up, we got to see that symbol before literally ever, and that we got to linger on it and think about the puzzle, and the big reveal was at the end of a chapter instead of here, at basically the start, so we can catch up to the random out of nowhere flashback-forward that doesn't matter.

    Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but this ****ing sucked.


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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    I mean, I guess it's a kind of interesting approach to the whole four dimensions thing, saying going back in time is the 'eighth wall' but.. Yeah, the way it's presented is not great. Maybe one could have figured it out from the riddle (I don't think the sudden important symbol would have been much use) but it doesn't feel like a fair 'figure it out, readers' puzzle.
    But hey, on a positive note, it seems they're almost done with this!
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Imagine if this series had good pacing. Imagine if we got all the proper build up, we got to see that symbol before literally ever, and that we got to linger on it and think about the puzzle, and the big reveal was at the end of a chapter instead of here, at basically the start, so we can catch up to the random out of nowhere flashback-forward that doesn't matter.

    Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but this ****ing sucked.
    This is probably the pure distillation of this series in in one post. Part of me is hoping that some inevitable anime filler might actually smooth the story out in adaptation.
    Last edited by Dragonus45; 2019-06-04 at 08:02 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    This is probably the lure distillation of this series in in one post. Part of me is hoping that some inevitable anime filler might actually smooth the story out in adaptation.
    I've never really read a series that made me go "wow take your time don't go so fast we'll get there when we get there" but there you have it I guess. They sped through all the interesting stuff that could have been really good world and character building to make all these revelations matter but they just didn't.

    I fully expect there to be some sort of story behind this. Like, a ****ing "hey so Promised Neverland's mangaka is dying so he had to finish it immediately" or there was some sort of meddling involved due to fear of it not sustaining the fanbase. Because this feels unprecedented to me.


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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    I've never really read a series that made me go "wow take your time don't go so fast we'll get there when we get there.
    Weren't you in the Bleach threads? I guess YMMV. Also, One Piece Wano Arc feels pretty rushed too to be honest.

    I could've sworn I read somewhere that the author is wrapping the series up and not wanting to stretch it further. Something like 20 or so volumes to go before it ends. The thought made sense, I guess, considering the bazillion IPs across different media that clearly overstayed their welcome.

    Gracefield Arc is tightly packed at 37 chapters (technically less, if you separate theintro as its own arc), but the pacing worked then because it fit the scale of the story. The recent explosion of worldbuilding stuff in combination with the sudden introductions of the Civil War subplot AND the Seven Walls subplot AND the Search for Mujika subplot just felt too much stuff is going on all at once.

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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Weren't you in the Bleach threads? I guess YMMV. Also, One Piece Wano Arc feels pretty rushed too to be honest.

    I could've sworn I read somewhere that the author is wrapping the series up and not wanting to stretch it further. Something like 20 or so volumes to go before it ends. The thought made sense, I guess, considering the bazillion IPs across different media that clearly overstayed their welcome.

    Gracefield Arc is tightly packed at 37 chapters (technically less, if you separate theintro as its own arc), but the pacing worked then because it fit the scale of the story. The recent explosion of worldbuilding stuff in combination with the sudden introductions of the Civil War subplot AND the Seven Walls subplot AND the Search for Mujika subplot just felt too much stuff is going on all at once.
    Yes and that's irrelevant. Promised Neverland is not Bleach and has different problems from Bleach, that could be solved in different ways. Bleach's issue is definitely not that the final arc was rushed, especially since it took a year or two to finish. The Wano Arc feels a bit rushed but that's because it is intended to match a three act kabuki play, so it actually has a specific sort of pacing Oda's looking for. Whether it works or not we'll see.

    Yeah, that stuff should have been spread out. Rushing through these situations is incredibly negative for the series. And yeah, I know they said they didn't want to stretch out the series... but the end result is basically just as bad as a Never Ending Nothing series like Souma's Food Wars. The Promised Neverland had so much promise in those first 37 chapters, and a little bit after that, but once they hit Goldypond things slowly but surely slipped downward.

    It is fitting in a way that a series about the Neverland, the place we'll never really be able to go, has flopped right at the finish line. It was a false promise from the start, as the title itself said.


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  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Reality getting wonky at the end of the journey reminds me of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (or rather the Voyage of Mel Din, and all the works it ever inspired)

    I'm happy that they did figure out something in the end - the reality having no sense whatsoever would be dissapointing. So I'm postponing my judgement for another chapter.

    I'm also curious what happens in real space in the meantime.

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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Ah. Obvious in hindsight.

    The DM I play with loves to pull this kind of stuff.

    And now Squiggle is a tesseract.

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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Beautiful, beautiful art.

    I have no interest in what's happening. Norman prepares for war as Emma and Ray (who I still need to shuffle my brain around when I name since he looks identical to one of my own characters in my novel) learn the secret to the seven walls.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    A new chapter approaches!

    Not much! Don and Gilda are having a hell of a time doing this and end up getting found up. I bet the wolf girl doesn't care though. She seems like someone who wants the demons to stay alive so she can hunt them herself, to me.


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  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    A new chapter approaches!

    Not much! Don and Gilda are having a hell of a time doing this and end up getting found up. I bet the wolf girl doesn't care though. She seems like someone who wants the demons to stay alive so she can hunt them herself, to me.
    You know, if you are that stupid and/ or careless the whole 'elite children' bit falls somewhat apart...
    I guess she can't be working against them or they would be done for but I also have no idea what her agenda is.
    Don trying to befriend her was kind of cute, though.
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    New chapter!

    We learn Ayeshi's backstory and... I just... I don't know. I don't know. This is a cute and nice story about how a factory farm worker saw a baby and is like "... gonna steal it because it's like me" and that's cute and powerful and is the first real sign that demons can be actual good people.

    I just don't know though. I don't know if this sort of presentation is GOOD or not. A part of me still feels like Emma is wrong headed to be trying this, that some demons do NEED to die. The Promise isn't binding in any real sense at all, Goldypond is proof of that. It might be that the elevators stopped working because Goldypond being a human hunting ground means The Promise is broken and thus travel between the two worlds is cut off. Who knows, but nothing the series has done has shown us that The Promise is anything more than that. A promise.

    Also again I cannot stress enough SONJU SAID HE WOULD GO BACK TO HUNTING HUMANS, just only after they've become "wild" instead of domesticated. He's one of the people with evil-blood like Mujika and Mujika doesn't seem overly concerned about his saying that. The series goes out of it's way to show us Sonju saying this! So ultimately Emma IS wrong, this won't work at all. But that raises the question of whether killing an entire species of things "just because they're bad" is good or not... and...

    I mean, yes. The demons are absolutely destructive in every single way. There's nothing inherently wrong with having to eat to live, and even in the real world the line between sapience and sentient in food stuff is a hotly debated thing with no real splitting point... except that the demons HAVE to eat human meat, unless they have evil-blood, and almost all of them will eat human meat after anyway since it's the tastiest thing and even their most peaceful religion based AROUND the evil-blood holds that hunting wild humans is okay. So yeah, no, exterminating them all is... good. Like overall in general. Yes Ayeshi's dad was a nice one, but I'm not sure that matters! He's an individual on a bad side, and there being good people in bad sides doesn't change the fact that they're bad.

    I'm just not sure with this series. I don't know how to feel because it's too closely tied with my own thoughts about the world in general. I guess the fact that demons ARE obligate human-eaters unless they have evil-blood means that it's less bad than if they chose to eat humans when there are other options, so saying killing all demons is negative whereas saying killing all nazis would be good.

    Honestly given the fact that the royal family killed all the evil-bloods beyond Mijuka makes it clear that at least from their perspective, it was a Choice.

    So I guess what I'm saying is eat the rich. Anyway it was a good chapter.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-06-24 at 08:31 AM.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    I'm not sure if I want to discuss this because I feel like we're just way too close to real world stuff here..

    I think the backstory was well done and compelling enough for how short it was, but it still doesn't make up for the lack of character the demons should have gotten instead of the effing time skip.
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    I'm not sure if I want to discuss this because I feel like we're just way too close to real world stuff here..

    I think the backstory was well done and compelling enough for how short it was, but it still doesn't make up for the lack of character the demons should have gotten instead of the effing time skip.
    Extremely agreed on that last bit. Would have been nice to get all this characterization for the demons earlier and stuff.

    It's something we mentioned before, but this series feels afraid of lingering too long. It's afraid of falling into slow pacing. Unfortunately, for a cerebral story like this, especially one that is earnestly trying to sell "These demons that implicitly have to eat humans are worth saving as a whole", you need to have a slower pacing so you can dish out that information and make it settle.

    Things are just rushing too much.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    The sort of rushed pacing towards a hasty wrap up is the kind of of thing I normally associate with a series that just found out it has like 4 chapters to end its story more then a popular series with a big fan base and all the good will in the world to ride on while it tries to establish the more complicated characterization for its villains that really should have happened during the time skip. I wonder why its in such a hurry to end in an industry that usually just wants to run on to long?
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    The sort of rushed pacing towards a hasty wrap up is the kind of of thing I normally associate with a series that just found out it has like 4 chapters to end its story more then a popular series with a big fan base and all the good will in the world to ride on while it tries to establish the more complicated characterization for its villains that really should have happened during the time skip. I wonder why its in such a hurry to end in an industry that usually just wants to run on to long?
    It was mentioned at the start of the series that the mangaka knows how they want the series to end from the beginning. It may just be they are following their draft and not letting the needs of the story that crop up as it plays out take precedence over what they had in mind.

    As a writer myself, I definitely understand that. You want to Do A Thing, but sometimes as you write you realize that that thing you want to do isn't going to work or play out the way you want. It's just a natural effect of taking an idea and actually putting it to paper. Once you hit that point you've got two options. You either go with the flow and adapt, change on the fly. Or you try to force it. Both have positives and negatives, and it takes a very good writer to manage either result. Lean too far on the left and you get Bleach or Naruto, completely muddled and forgetting what their beginnings had been. Go to far to the right and you get Neverland, a series that is actively sawing it's foot off to fit the boot it wants, and there's nothing we can really do to stop it.

    Earlier on in this series life span I mentioned that I didn't think it would ever leave the farm. I kinda wish it didn't, in a way.


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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    It was mentioned at the start of the series that the mangaka knows how they want the series to end from the beginning. It may just be they are following their draft and not letting the needs of the story that crop up as it plays out take precedence over what they had in mind.
    That almost feels backwards though, because one of the things that frustrates me most is how little effort it feels has been put into setting up the stuff with the demons not all being so bad on an individual level all the time. If this was always meant to be the ending you would think that it would feel more natural in the story and less rushed.
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    That almost feels backwards though, because one of the things that frustrates me most is how little effort it feels has been put into setting up the stuff with the demons not all being so bad on an individual level all the time. If this was always meant to be the ending you would think that it would feel more natural in the story and less rushed.
    Well here's the thing. In the process of creating the story, the "story overview" was likely ended with "Emma stops everyone from killing the demons, they work out a new Promise that fixes everything mostly". But the devil (or I guess I could say demon) is always in the details. Just because something looks reasonable on the overview doesn't mean it'll work out.

    To peel back the curtain a bit on my thoughts on this; my original manuscript, from the entire start, had the overview point of "main character dies and wakes up as a ghost in the city where all the action happens". As far as an overview goes, it looks simple and clean and efficient, and my build up to it was well executed and well done.

    The problem is that the actual plot point Was Inherently Bad, regardless of how well I could executed it, so I ended up scrapping that. In the case of Neverland, their overview likely said as above, Emma stops everyone from killing the demons and makes a new Promise. But when it came time to create those details... the mangaka realized that they might not actually to write it, and had to decide on how to go from there. They chose to first to keep that plot in mind, and then chose to rush it to keep the pacing "tight"... which unfortunately caused the writing to suffer on this aspect of the story.

    Sorry if that got all rambly. what I mean is, just because they planned it out in advance doesn't mean the execution is good. Just because the overview is solid and makes sense doesn't mean the details that lead to it happening will play off well, even if they're written well. And tragically in this case they're not written well on top of that.


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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    New chapter!

    Geelan is ****ing dead. So Norman's plan has immediately failed... unless him becoming wild was part of his big plan. We'll see.

    And we meet God! Who is a demon, and pretty clearly wants to eat Emma. I imagine that'll be the cost of the Promise. You can only COME here if you've given up your sense of self entirely after all.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Another problem of this pacing is that I can't remember names of people I've seen once, so I had genuinely no idea who Geelan was anymore.
    No idea if he's actually gone or if it's just a plot to confuse the royals. Well, we'll see.

    I'm not saying they don't want to eat her but... Okay, I guess I can very much see Emma paying that price if it gets her what she wants. But this seems like a weird time for an event that should end the story. Unless we get a whole new story of people living with the new promise in a new world with the memory of Emma sacrificing herself.

    Also, how did a parasite become God? FMA style?
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Another problem of this pacing is that I can't remember names of people I've seen once, so I had genuinely no idea who Geelan was anymore.
    No idea if he's actually gone or if it's just a plot to confuse the royals. Well, we'll see.

    I'm not saying they don't want to eat her but... Okay, I guess I can very much see Emma paying that price if it gets her what she wants. But this seems like a weird time for an event that should end the story. Unless we get a whole new story of people living with the new promise in a new world with the memory of Emma sacrificing herself.

    Also, how did a parasite become God? FMA style?
    Well I mean the God in FMA is like... actually the big G God, is the thing. Not a parasite, just divinely rude.

    If I had to guess, the current God is who he is because of The Promise.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Wasn't he 'just' the god of alchemy, or something? It's been too long. Or maybe that is the only god in that world.

    I'm really not too fond of this story's mix of science and magic. A lot of it seems super mystical but then they throw in some science and it's meant to make sense (?)
    I'm just afraid we'll get an unsatisfactory answer to what this god is and how it came to be.
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Wasn't he 'just' the god of alchemy, or something? It's been too long. Or maybe that is the only god in that world.

    I'm really not too fond of this story's mix of science and magic. A lot of it seems super mystical but then they throw in some science and it's meant to make sense (?)
    I'm just afraid we'll get an unsatisfactory answer to what this god is and how it came to be.
    The first line The Truth speaks in FMA is "I am God, I am The World, I am You, I am... The Truth" which is five hundred percent a very big G God thing to do. I am that is, after all. And I mean spoilersspoilers and such make it abundantly clear.

    Yeah, Neverland has definitely fallen off the deep end and is now just careening down. It's a shame, really.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    ...I MEAN OKAY, Neverland. SURE. FINE. Let's have this now.

    New chapter; flashback to 1000 years ago when the Promise was made. And a realization that there are actually TWO promises. The physical one we made with demons, and the actual magical one we made with God.


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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    I hope and pray this is not going to be a whole arc... I mean, I'm not opposed to exploring that time period but if we're getting a long arc in the middle of the climax... Eff you.
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    I hope and pray this is not going to be a whole arc... I mean, I'm not opposed to exploring that time period but if we're getting a long arc in the middle of the climax... Eff you.
    This chapter is marked with a "part 1" signifier. This could be foreboding.


    Corvo-Zodi by Cuthalion. I'm not a murderer, I'm a good person! *kills everyone*
    Sig Banner by Pinkhaired August. No Regrets.

  29. - Top - End - #269
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kato's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Germany
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    This chapter is marked with a "part 1" signifier. This could be foreboding.
    Well, it wasn't so bad.

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    Seems like a good plan... except for all the braindead cattle that will likely die right away but... I guess there's no other real future for them.
    But what about the not-so-bad demons until Musica can spread her ability? What if she wasn't around? So you accept the demons probably slaughtering each other until a last few survive?
    "What's done is done."

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  30. - Top - End - #270
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    LaZodiac's Avatar

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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: The Promised Neverland: Promises kept and broken (to be edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Well, it wasn't so bad.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Seems like a good plan... except for all the braindead cattle that will likely die right away but... I guess there's no other real future for them.
    But what about the not-so-bad demons until Musica can spread her ability? What if she wasn't around? So you accept the demons probably slaughtering each other until a last few survive?
    Spoiler
    Show
    I mean, it's bad in the fact that I ****ing hate this flashback. It's blessedly short, but this just feels dumb. I'm kinda glad that it's showing that being willing to compromise with actual legitimate monsters is... you know, inherently bad, but otherwise it's kinda just bad. I figured the farm promise was just an on paper promise, and the gang of knights would make a promise with God to find a way to not be eaten and they'd become the Evil Blood Tribe as a result or something. This is just... a little lame, I guess, as far as backstories go. Minerva was a piece of ****!

    Also yeah no Emma's wish, the way it's worded, likely means that her group will be forced to stay in the demon world. That'll be the reward, Emma and her crew need to stay here. There's nothing else I can even think of that'd fit, and her phrasing all but makes it explicit.

    Also also, yeah no all the factory farm children are just going to die. The human world is going to wake up one morning to thousands of dead baby corpses being found in a random field and it's going to be hell on earth.


    Corvo-Zodi by Cuthalion. I'm not a murderer, I'm a good person! *kills everyone*
    Sig Banner by Pinkhaired August. No Regrets.

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