General Anime/Manga Discussion 15: The Beach Episode

[Prime32]

Anyways, had a request for everyone: Could you all give me some recommendations for good harem animes that have some action in them. Recently watched High School DxD and quite enjoyed it. I've watched Monster Musume as well(I think that was the name, there are multiple monster girl animes that start with "monster", and maybe a half dozen more, most of which didn't leave enough impression to remember their names. But yeah, I'd like to watch some more, just having trouble separating the wheat from the chaff, I've gone through a dozen recently that I couldn't make it past the 2nd or 3rd episode before I gave up on them.

Invaders of the Rokujouma is fantastic. The first book was pretty generic so that the story could be wrapped up quickly if need be, but it gets steadily better. It focuses less on romantic competition, and more on the characters joking around and treating each other like family. The interactions are heartwarming and the action is blood-pumping.

There's an anime adaptation of the first six books. Not only do the books themselves have an official English translation but it's 30 volumes long, making it one of the most complete LN translations available... and most of it is free (though the free version leaves out some illustrations).

[ellenate]

*Nods* , the rules do not matter in Code Geass, why you made the move with the rules that do not matter is the thing about Code Geass. What was your wish, desire, goal, whatever, why did you make that choice which animating forces did you listen to, animating forces which are like devils or witches inside ones own mind. (The technical term being the Greek Word Daemons, as in invisible spirits beyond the senses yet these invisible spirits have power to modify one's fate.)

The rules of chess, or the mechanics of Nightmare Frames do not matter, it is why you play the game that is what matters. What do you get out of it.

(Plus silly theatrics)

lol

First, I disagree that the existence of a sequel means that the original work is necessarily incomplete. The Bourne trilogy is a complete work regardless of the subsequent entries. Jaws is a complete work despite the existence of Jaws 2+. Ghost in the Shell ('95) is a complete work despite the existence of Innocence and the various other works in the franchise. Jurassic Park is a complete work despite that there's been a bunch of other Jurassic Park movies. The Matrix is complete without the rest of the trilogy. These works tell complete stories with natural and definite endings that provide fitting conclusion to the plots, themes, and character arcs and require no additional elaboration. Because someone decided to make sequels, there is now a larger story that may or may not be complete (see: OT vs. the Star Wars franchise in general), but that does not mean the original story is not complete in itself.

Maybe we just disagree on whether there's a meaningful distinction between a work that "stands on its own" and a work that is "complete in itself". I don't think there is one.

It's really not a matter of debate, it's incomplete by definition.

I have the sneaking suspicion that you meant "unsatisfying" when you said "incomplete".

Second, the movies are not just a direct sequel to the show - they reboot and retell the Madoka Magica story with slight alterations before moving on to Rebellion. So Rebellion is most accurately a direct sequel to the previous movies, not to the TV show.

That's a reach...

ETA: None of this is to say that I'm not going to watch the movies

Why bother with the first two movies, if you've seen the show already? Just jump straight to Rebellion, unless you just want to "set the mood".


I kind of did that for the new flcl's... which were letdowns, but the original still holds up.

[Drascin]

It's kinda hard to argue Rebellion "completes" Madoka when Madoka the TV series and Rebellion have largely opposite thematic standpoints, I find.

[ellenate]

It's kinda hard to argue Rebellion "completes" Madoka when Madoka the TV series and Rebellion have largely opposite thematic standpoints, I find.

yeah, it's a continuation. i did call it sequel bait.

[mallorean_thug]

I recently rewatched Rebellion to check if I was just being too harsh on it when it first came out.

I was not, imo.

It's not essential viewing, it wasn't planned alongside the tv show, and it actively sabotages the ending of the tv show.

Like, if you want to participate in the /discourse/ obviously you have to watch it, but I would recommend against it if you can manage to restrain yourself.

[Lethologica]

It's really not a matter of debate, it's incomplete by definition.

I have the sneaking suspicion that you meant "unsatisfying" when you said "incomplete".

The Fellowship of the Ring is satisfying but not complete, so no, that is not what I meant. In fact, I was perfectly clear about what I meant:

These works tell complete stories with natural and definite endings that provide fitting conclusion to the plots, themes, and character arcs and require no additional elaboration.

There's nothing to sneak around.

You seem to be operating under a definition like "encompassing all material in the largest story arc." It's difficult to tell, though, because you never actually provided a definition before asserting that you were correct by definition.

I should further add that Gen Urobuchi came up with the idea for Rebellion only after learning that a sequel would be produced, so it's not the case that Rebellion was something the show meant to include but ran out of time or money to address, as you originally speculated. And what happens when Shaft gets around to making that 2015 concept movie into a new Madoka project? Does the film trilogy become incomplete? I think your position is not founded on the content of the work itself and therefore cannot say anything valuable about the work.

That's a reach...

Not really. For example, the OPs of the first two movies foreshadow the events of Rebellion, showing that the movies were filmed with the whole in mind. As already stated, this was not the case for the show.

[Aotrs Commander]

Brotherhood, next three episodes (to 46)

Spoiler

Show

Hohenhiem brings Al up to speed. It is reevealed that what the bad guys are waiting for is just the right day.

Ed reappears with those two humonclous guys, apparently mostly healed.

Ling-Greed guts rthe last of the former greed's friends, but surprise! He is the old Greed sorta after all and with a bit of proding from Ling, goes berserk on Bradley.

Olivia meanwhile protects her family in her own special way - seizeing control of her family and beating the snot of of Alexander. (The family are very blasé about it all.) Liiiittle disappointed, if I'm honest, I WOULD like to see Olivia actually taken down a peg or two, she's drifting back a little too much towards irritating, but whatever. (Also, her derision at Alex refusing to kill unarmed civilians - especially since it is obviously solely for no reason than it was the bad guy's plan they are all actively working to stop - is really quite worth of comtempt in and of itself. Though I suppose, to be fair to this show, that might be what I'm supposed to think and she's actually angry at him for, I dunno, not pulverising the military there and then or something. That might actually be plausible, but I guess we might see later.)

May runs into some really nice people on the way back to Xing and this and a few words from Envy have her turning right around. (Good girl. Not the smartest move Envy made, there, honestly.)

Ed and co run into Ling, temporarily in control and also get the information out. Which is that Father is planning to open the gate, though for what purpose is still a big murky. Greed refuses to joi Ed when offered, and sneeringly suggests they joib him. Ed is like "okay, sure, why not?" which actually blindsides Greed for a moment.

The next bit is basically all the little pieces falling into place, with everyone sneaking information around (Izumi delivering the message from Al to Briggs is... Well, that's a hell of a courier.)

Then: small timeskip.

Winry is deposited home sneakily by Miles as they move to the "training exercise" with Grumman's eastern forces. Winry goes home and gets about half-way naked before realised Ed is in the room, getting an eyefull. Hilarity happens.

Grumman manages t trick Bradley - who had come to oversee the training exercise, ready to step in the the coup started - into rushing back to prevent an Ishvallen attack on Central. (Plausible since gathering his coutnrymen is what Scar has been doing.) But it's a trap, and he gets all blowed up. (There's no way he's actually dead, of course; I'll be astonished if they actually got him, but the military, none the wiser, actually THINK that he's dead.)

Bad news, Gluttony and Price capture Al in a moment of soul-tugging incuded weakness.

Olivia, warned by Mustang of Celim's true nature, is about half-a-step away from assuming control when Father steps in with Sloth.

Fairly eventful, but that's about all I could manage today; look like from next episode, the midden is defintely hitting the windmill at great velocity.

[John Cribati]

I had to watch a second time to understand the root cause of why Olivier doesn't respect Alex. Alex actually said as much himself- he saw the military was doing wrong and then went home to cry about it instead of, y'know, trying to do something to stop it. That was the "battlefield" he chose to run away from.

Spoiler: Spoiler, but just a little bit

Show

Olivier actually has a lot in common with Kimblee in that regard- it's not so much that they hold people to some kind of high standard, they're both more about making sure you live up to the standards you set for yourself, fighting for what you believe in and so on. Kimblee just adds that extra psychopathic "and if you don't like my ideals, fight me and prove that yours are stronger. What's that? You're dead? Guess that means I'm right!"

[Ramza00]

I had to watch a second time to understand the root cause of why Olivier doesn't respect Alex. Alex actually said as much himself- he saw the military was doing wrong and then went home to cry about it instead of, y'know, trying to do something to stop it. That was the "battlefield" he chose to run away from.

To better understand Olivier Mira Armstrong and her dislike for Alex you have to wait till Episode Spoiler for it is better explained by comparison.

Spoiler: The Episode of Brotherhood I am referring to

Show

Olivier was angry not at Alex for finding Ishval vile, but instead for doing nothing about it. Crying about it and still being part of the military was the worse choice in Olivier's mind.

We understand this by Olivier talking to the Central soldiers and them questioning what their duty / obligation was as soldiers vs their duty / obligation to their families, their own dreams, etc.

John Cribati your comparison to Kimblee is apt, but while Kimblee wants to see things for the joy / beauty of experience, Olivier is all about duty / obligation to one's animating forces and finding a way to make those dreams a reality which is what Olivier see as the obligation of being human, to make your dreams a reality.

The episode I am referring to is Episode 57, but there are also several other episodes with this theme prior to 57 with the Sloth vs Armstrongs fight.

Obeying a superior you do not believe in is Sloth in Olivier's mind, it is literal indolence (wanting to avoid activity or exertion; lazy) just like "Sloth the Indolent." Remember what Sloth is always saying "What a Pain" or he wants to finish his "bothersome" task so he can "sleep."

Life is full of contradictions, and just checking out and crying like Alex did Oliver sees as shameful. It would have been better for Alex to done a rebellion for him checking out did not change the outcome of Ishval.

----

Death is not something to be feared with the Briggs mindset for Death is bad, but instead because Death is giving up any of your ability to control and affect the world.

[ellenate]

...

There's nothing to debate it is incomplete.

You seem to be operating under a definition like "encompassing all material in the largest story arc." It's difficult to tell, though, because you never actually provided a definition before asserting that you were correct by definition.

I don't know how difficult it was, seeing as you figured it out. I mean you were countering it with the, "the movie isn't sequel of the tv show, so the tv show is complete" argument. (and i stand by that being a reach)


Your argument amounted to, "there was a narrative that came to a resolution, so it's complete". That logic could be used to say a series of episodes (lets say ep.4-6) was "complete".

also

The Matrix is complete without the rest of the trilogy.

No it's not, that's why they and you call it a trilogy.

Spoiler

Show

i swear i've heard this exact argument somewhere before.

[Lethologica]

Well, if there's nothing to debate, I'm perfectly happy to walk away. The rest of your post can't have been debating the point, of course, so I don't need to address it. Right?

[Starwulf]

"Is This a Zombie?" is exactly what you need.

Is that getting another season? I seem to recall looking it up after I watched it a few months ago and seeing that it wasn't very likely. I definitely enjoyed it though :).

Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen is fairly enjoyable and does have something of a harem comedy within it. It's mostly a period romance set in a fantasy version of China composed of petting-zoo people, aside for the amnesiac protagonist who's entirely human and has a mask stuck to his face. It's a sequel to the original Utawarerumono technically, but it's not really necessary to have seen it to enjoy Itsuwari no Kamen as it's own story albeit with modest cameos and allusions to its predecessor. Kamen's a better series by virtue of being more lighthearted and a more fun protagonist all-around in my opinion, though it goes into similar territory as it gets into war and internal strife.

If you haven't seen Martian Successor Nadesico, it's a satiric riff on mecha shows where the harem comedy is somewhat taken to absurdity to undermine the apparent seriousness of the conflict that I'd almost hesitate to call it harem, but it definitely ostensibly looks and acts like one albeit by the definition of the 90's. It's a fun show anyways, especially if you're aware of the tropes its making fun of and see how its doing it.

I liked Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut despite being a fairly generic LN harem magical school fantasy anime with a Mary Sue protagonist. The action is still kind of cool to watch and the universe is made around doing traditional fantasy adventure things - like dungeon diving - but with mecha and androids around and I found that neat in its execution if somewhat under-explained. It's also just well paced, as to be pretty watchable.

I agree with Is this a Zombie? as well, and there's also Kono Subarashii Sekai ni Shukufuku o! if you possibly haven't seen it.

I'll check out the 1st and 3rd series you mentioned. Martian Successor Nadesico I watched many, many years ago(like...in 2000-2001). It was great, though I don't remember much due to a combination of it being a long time ago, and the fact that every time I watched the series I was...influenced by herbal supplements ^^.

Try Heaven's lost property.

High school DXD, as far as i've seen does the harem/action blend the best. Everything else comes off as too silly or just has bad writing.

I actually just watched Heaven's Lost property. It was pretty good, though I started to suspect/figure out what was going on by the end of the 1st season iirc.

I got around to watching Rewrite recently. I don't regret it, but I'm also not trying to convince anybody to watch it. You just reminded me of it, I suppose.

Never heard of it, I'll check it out! I'm always open to watching new anime, I've been on quite the binge recently, I've mowed through maybe 20 or 30 different series in the last 6 months, though to be fair most of them only had a single season.

Controversial suggestion: I think you might like False Love: Nisekoi. And "We Never Learn" is a new one that's coming out. They aren't perfect, but in terms of being harem series that do actually try to have a plot sometimes, they're kind of the cream of the crop.

You could also go back into like, the before times with To-Love-Ru (not Darkness) and Ah! My Goddess, or Tenchi Muyo.

I"ll check out False Love and We Never Learn and To-Love-Ru. I watched Ah! My Goddess and ALL of the Tenchi Muyo's in my late teens(and each successive one as they were released). One of my most favorite cats of all time was named Ryoko...miss her so much, she was a beautiful black cat that was a polydactyl(not sure if that's spelled right of it needs a hypen). Had 6 toes on both front paws, and 7 or 8 on the back(it was crazy. The vet said he'd never seen a cat with that many toes in his life, and he(the vet) had been practicing for decades). She was an outside cat and disappeared shortly after I met my wife :-(.

How did you not suggest THE action harem, that is Ranma 1/2. Shame on you
No, really, Starwulf, if you haven't seen it and you can stomach thirty year old animation (it's not that bad) go and watch it.

For lesser quality... I felt like Shinmai Mao no Testament (Testament of Sister New Devil) is a slightly worse version of DxD, so if you liked that, you might like this, too.
Seitokai no Ichizon is... a bit tamer (?) with more focus on the fighting. It's not great but it's an action harem.
Sekirei is low on the action, in general, instead being mostly ecchi and comedy.
And if you're fine with dropping the action and want just harem comedy fun, give The World God Only Knows a shot. It's a treat, if you like harems, imo.

Ranma 1/2 is amazing, though to be honest I don't quite recall it being a harem. I mean I know Ranma had a lot of females vying for him, but I can't recall him ever particularly reciprocating. Hehe, Shampoo was my favorite of the females though, but I may be biased a bit since her introduction episode was the first anime I ever got my wife to watch :).

Ah, I think we did this before and I forgot. Also, you should really go and fix that It deserves its popularity even after 30 years.


Something else I remember, albeit somehow arguably even... uh... let's say flatter than average, there's Maken-Ki as action/ecchi/harem/comedy. But honestly, it's mostly ecchi.

And if you care for reverse harem with mostly comedy, Ouran High is your go-to, I think.

I need to finish up Ouran High, I started it on Netflix a few months ago but got distracted by something or another and never went back. It was interesting, albeit a bit over the top at times ^^. I'll check out Maken-Ki as well!

Thank you all for the suggestions, I'll have an awful lot of anime to watch now :)

[Kato]

Is it really required for a harem anime that the affection is mutual? Maybe my view is distorted because Ranma has always been my prototypical harem and yes, there are for the most part only one sided affections. But the huge web of relationships, many of them romantic puts it pretty definitely in the genre imo.

Also, as I said, Maken-Ki fits roughly in the same genre as DxD but it's not as good. If the first two or three episodes don't catch your attention, Starwulf, don't keep going.

Also also, I remember reading the first few chapters of We never learn when it was new. It was fine but it did not really have anything to keep me reading. Does it get better / should I give it another shot?

[Rodin]

Is it really required for a harem anime that the affection is mutual? Maybe my view is distorted because Ranma has always been my prototypical harem and yes, there are for the most part only one sided affections. But the huge web of relationships, many of them romantic puts it pretty definitely in the genre imo.

Given that SAO is described as a harem and the object of affection is married within the first season, I'd say not. A lot of harem protagonists are completely love-oblivious, after all.

I would say that you can have a huge web of relationships without it being a harem. Like School Rumble, which has pretty much every character get romantically interested in multiple other characters at some point in the story, but there's never the "everybody interested in protagonist" vibe that defines a harem series.

Can't speak to Ranma though as I've never actually seen it. I should look it up one of these days, it's just one of those shows that I've never had readily available to watch. Then again, it is Rumiko Takahashi so I've probably seen most of it by proxy from her other works.

[LaZodiac]

Is it really required for a harem anime that the affection is mutual? Maybe my view is distorted because Ranma has always been my prototypical harem and yes, there are for the most part only one sided affections. But the huge web of relationships, many of them romantic puts it pretty definitely in the genre imo.

Also, as I said, Maken-Ki fits roughly in the same genre as DxD but it's not as good. If the first two or three episodes don't catch your attention, Starwulf, don't keep going.

Also also, I remember reading the first few chapters of We never learn when it was new. It was fine but it did not really have anything to keep me reading. Does it get better / should I give it another shot?

It gets better over all, but it's like Nisekoi where it randomly shifts from "a genuinely human take on this sort of story featuring never before seen ideas that actually get to the core of these characters" to "This woman's pants are so tight and thin you can see the contour of her underwear even in a distance shot where such detail should be impossible."

[Reddish Mage]

Ranma 1/2 is amazing, though to be honest I don't quite recall it being a harem. I mean I know Ranma had a lot of females vying for him, but I can't recall him ever particularly reciprocating. Hehe, Shampoo was my favorite of the females though, but I may be biased a bit since her introduction episode was the first anime I ever got my wife to watch :)

Ranma 1/2 , alongside Oh/Ah My Goddess! are two harems before the formula solidified (probably based on Tenchi Muyo).

This may be why Ranma 1/2 doesn't feel like a harem even though all the elements are there: Ranma lives with a lot of females in an untraditional cohabitation arrangement. He is pursued by multiple love interests. Even many of the lesser tropes are found: Ranma is frequently found in compromising or scandalous positions by his cohabiters, he is occasionally put in a position where he has to judge among his potentials and can't make up his mind, and he cannot admit his affections. The problem is harems are such a formulaic and cookie-cutter form of anime that it just something like Ranma 1/2 that just doesn't have the same pace and story beats doesn't feel right.

I don't recall reciprocating harem kings being a requirement. You mostly get male leads that are unusually uncomfortable with female contact or affection. Also, Ranma and Akane have had multiple affectionate interactions. Those rare affections, however, never stick (also for half of those Ranma is female at the time). Remember Ranma and Akane's first kiss? It was one of those "accidental kisses" and Ranma was a girl. Therefore, Akane claims it doesn't count.

By the way, I don't think there has been an interesting harem for years now. Since Highschool DxD brought harem to its raunchiest extreme there's hasn't been anything that even warrants a blip on the radar.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, Ranma 1/2 doesn't necessarily feel like a harem show because Ranma/Akane are pretty much the main pair and it's clear from quite early on. Everyone else is just additional complications on top of the basic Takahashi "just get on with it and admit you like each other plot".

[Pendulous]

See, this is one of the problems I have with the tag of "harem". Ah My Goddess cannot possibly be a harem, because the relationship is established immediately. I don't care if the whole damn planet wants to bone Keiichi, he's with Belldandy. "Harem" implies that there or more girls are into the guy, but also that there is actually a possibility that any one of those can happen. I guess by this logic, Rosario Vampire also would not be a harem.

I haven't seen Ranma, though I plan to, so I can't comment on that. But there's also a show like Mayo Chiki, where, while the relationship is not present in the beginning, the end result is obvious. Also, the other "interests" are barely more than a blip. Plus, the manga is much more harem-oriented than the anime, so the tag shouldn't translate over if the tone has changed, or they didn't get that far. Like "Working!!", a fantastic show. Season 1 shouldn't be listed as romance. It doesn't really ramp into that until later in the series.

By every definition of harem, Toradora should be counted as a harem, and it clearly isn't.

[John Cribati]

I remember reading a harem manga a long time ago, about a man named Kaoru who used to be part of a rich Jaoanese family that fell off somehow, but a girl from another rich family had been betrothed to him, and left the family to find him. Or something like that. It's been a while. But even though their relationship was established, there were still a bumch of girls after Kaoru.

EDIT: A quick Google search had provided me the name: Ai Yori Aoshi

[Kitten Champion]

I would argue Tenchi Muyo! isn't harem.

Only two of the characters have any romantic interest in the male lead, the rest simply orbit around him doing their own shtick of which Tenchi is occasionally dragged into. Most of the comedy is based on how unimportant Tenchi's thoughts and feelings are, he's just another thing for Aeka and Ryoko to engage in over-the-top fights over. Which makes it at most an unconventional love triangle, with the love aspect dwarfed by the associated conflict.

Contrast it with Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari, Tenchi Muyou! GXP, or Dual! Parallel Trouble Adventures and it's a very different series really.

[ellenate]

I would argue Tenchi Muyo! isn't harem.

Only two of the characters have any romantic interest in the male lead, the rest simply orbit around him doing their own shtick of which Tenchi is occasionally dragged into. Most of the comedy is based on how unimportant Tenchi's thoughts and feelings are, he's just another thing for Aeka and Ryoko to engage in over-the-top fights over. Which makes it at most an unconventional love triangle, with the love aspect dwarfed by the associated conflict.

Contrast it with Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari, Tenchi Muyou! GXP, or Dual! Parallel Trouble Adventures and it's a very different series really.

Watched Dual recently, didn't know it was connected to tenchi. I Always avoided that franchise. Back when it was airing on tv, it felt so zany, and with little story to speak of.

I wouldn't consider it a harem either. Feelings between parties should be reciprocated on some level, if it's just used as a punchline it's a comedy. Maybe there's a such thing as a romantic harem.

[Drascin]

See, this is one of the problems I have with the tag of "harem". Ah My Goddess cannot possibly be a harem, because the relationship is established immediately. I don't care if the whole damn planet wants to bone Keiichi, he's with Belldandy. "Harem" implies that there or more girls are into the guy, but also that there is actually a possibility that any one of those can happen. I guess by this logic, Rosario Vampire also would not be a harem.

Thing is, in most classic harem shows "which couple wins" is in fact traditionally obvious since the very start. Ranma never made it even slightly hidden that Akane and Ranma would end up together. Fushigi Yugi is very harem-ish in that every single dude who has a name ends up falling for Miaka and vying for her affections, but the fact that she will end up with Tamahome is 100% obvious since episode 2 (of a 50+ episode series). And so on. They just milk the "oh, compromising situation!" and "oh, maybe someone else has a chance - haha just kidding, no freaking way" episodes until the series runtime ends.

[oxybe]

Ranma also focuses far more on the characters and the situation than the will-he-choose-me subplot. Each character is very willful and frank in their wants.

While there's some subtlety, you generally know the motivations for every character and when they appear on screen it's usually to cause a complication or because of a complication is currently going on and are going to drag the main cast into their problem. They're not just there to be arm candy.

If Shampoo appears, you can usually expect her to either try to violently drag Ranma back to china or do something to remove Akane from the picture. If she's there looking for help, something bad has probably happened. While the motivation for Shampoo is her crush on Ranma, the plot is focused on dealing with the antics of the human wreckingball that is Shampoo, rather then her pining for Ranma. Either way, you have a hook for one or two 20min episodes before she slinks backstage and something else can happen. We'll say Kuno decides to challenge Ranma for Akane, much to her annoyance.

This is because Ranma is episodic rather then arc-focused, so characters can come in and out of the scene and plot as needed. It's not like in Love Hina where the MC is largely forced to be around the various girls at all times. You don't have the overbearing presence of 6-7 characters on screen or just out of frame. You'll have Ranma, probably Akane, the week's antagonist (be it a sometimes ally like Shampoo or Ryouga or a more direct one like the Principal or the Gambling King) and maybe a second antagonists or secondary protagonist. anyone else is either there because it's normal (something happens at the Tendo house) or because of a one-off gag that will probably send them flying off-screen in a moment.

Add a large cast of colourful characters you can mix and match motivations and you have the makings of a long running series.

Ranma did lay down the foundation for harem anime, esp in the ones that basically have a grabbag of one-note tropes hanging around the MC's neck, but that's more due a particular refinement of a strain of the formula in a given direction over time and iteration rather any fault of Rumiko Takashi's classic.

[deuterio12]

Ranma did lay down the foundation for harem anime, esp in the ones that basically have a grabbag of one-note tropes hanging around the MC's neck, but that's more due a particular refinement of a strain of the formula in a given direction over time and iteration rather any fault of Rumiko Takashi's classic.

Gundam came out in 1981, and Gundam ZZ in 1986, while Ranma only aired in 1989.

There may've been even earlier harem anime, but Judau was already surrounded by women and girls fighting for his attention every episode before Ramma.

[Aotrs Commander]

Hrm. Yeah. Glitter Force Doki Doki just really isn't as good as Glitterforce. It's schmaltsy to the point of cliché, but without any of the previous show's self awareness (or any of the genuinely funny lines). It's... A lot more like I expected Glitter Force to be, actually. By the time I'd watched episode six, I was desparte for them to start doing group transformations, because the invididual ones were... Boring. (And given that Glitter Force's could a be little cringey for some of them but all of them were better than Doki Doki's). The daft insistance of spelling out "love" every time, not to mention slapping te charm and futsing with the touch screen to make their attacks (in between a bad guy firing an attack) stretchs credibilit beyond breaking point, even for Glitter!BatClara.

But episode five and six at least did break for some plot and old bad chap Bel (Bell? I dunno, and it's not worth effort to look it up, honestly) doesn't frack around - or bother with the minions doing the fighting for him, so there's that.

Also, the baby is the princesss girls. No, the baby is the princess. She hatched out an an egg, she can fly and has the same hair and eye-colour. Seriously, the baby is the... nevermind.

Okay, now she's crying, an she's not hungry or tired. Change her nappy. Change her nappy. Change her- and now she's gone to sleep with a nappy full of crap, good job Our Heroes. Ye gods, even I knew this at that age.

Jonathan, mate. Look, stop being evasive for the sake of being evasive. It's not funny, youre not mysterious and your apparent lack of fracks to be giving isn't entertaining. Stop it.



It's not quite bad enough to de-regulate itself from Cleaning the Room Telly, but it doesn't stand up or is as entertaining as Glitter Force. (I mean, it's not the voice cast's fault, there's only so much they can do with the banal dialogue about friendship and not giving up and stuff that's so rote and done so much better by so many other shows (MLP, for a kick-off).)

[Kato]

Gundam came out in 1981, and Gundam ZZ in 1986, while Ranma only aired in 1989.

There may've been even earlier harem anime, but Judau was already surrounded by women and girls fighting for his attention every episode before Ramma.

Not to discredit Judau's favor with girls but I despite some scenes I never felt like ZZ was focusing on the romance, where Ranma is all about rivalries and love interests.
Of course maybe it's my fault for watching Ranma way before Gundam.

[deuterio12]

Not to discredit Judau's favor with girls but I despite some scenes I never felt like ZZ was focusing on the romance, where Ranma is all about rivalries and love interests.
Of course maybe it's my fault for watching Ranma way before Gundam.

Haman's the big bad in Gundam ZZ and she basically throws away her chance at ruling the Earth Sphere and eventually her own life just because she's got a massive crush in Judau. All the while all her female ace pilots keep messing up when going after the protagonist because they're all heads over heels over Judau.

Then there's Mashymre Cello


Mashymre Cello is the secondary male character that's madly in love with one of the harem women ( again Haman) but she only shows any interest in him as far as getting Mashymre Cello to do her dirty work, just like there was that duck dude that Shampoo (ab)used as a lackey.

Did I mention there's roses everywhere?

It's just that in Gundam ZZ the crazy girls actually get a lot of people killed in their rampages instead of violence just being played for laughs and nobody getting seriously hurt. Shampoo casually crashes through walls and there's no broken bones when she's pissed, Haman drops space colonies in cities reaching kill counts in the millions when Judau looks at other women instead of her. Akane and Shampoo brawl over Ramma then walk it out, Puru and Puru II literally fight to the death over who gets to be Judau's new little sister (after they think Judau's actual sister is already dead).

Plus it should be pointed out that the central theme of most gundam shows has always been human relationships, with the giant robots being just bait. G Gundam literally ends with the big devil being defeated by the power of concentrated love!

[ellenate]

was watching two animes and they flipped on me

b the beginning

and prison school


B started off so strong, and that fight in ep. 3 was beautiful... but then nada. It didn't even get bad per se. I usually say 25 but i think it could've gone 50 eps easy. Why do they feel the need to always rush through material?

Is the 50 episode treatment dead nowadays? I rarely ever see them. Iron blooded orphans got it (which is strange considering how rushed that first season felt)

Prison school was just my comic relief as i felt B was going to be heavy, i never expected i'd like it so much. The chairman is such a unique character, maybe it's his voice, or that he never breaks the straight face menacing demeanor while doing lewd things. I really want to see that season two but it felt like more of a joke than something we'd actually get...

[Rysto]

The 50 episode treatment isn't dead. However 50 episodes is a huge commitment so you're not likely to see it these days except in shows with mass appeal: stuff like Precure or big shonen titles. Even the latter isn't guarantee -- big titles like My Hero Academia or Attack on Titan only seem to get 1-2 cours at a time.

[Ramza00]

Is the 50 episode treatment dead nowadays? I rarely ever see them. Iron blooded orphans got it (which is strange considering how rushed that first season felt)

The 50 episode treatment is not dead but the economics of the 50 episodes and anime as a whole is different than it used to be. There is no specific date things change for gradual change is the norm with the world.

If you are going to do 50 episodes it has to be "cheap content" that does not need much storyboarding, planning, detail, etc.

Or already have content that is storyboarded, with a written story, etc. Aka you are just breathing that existing content into life and thus it is cheaper to produce.

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Likewise Japan has always sold ad time in 13 week periods called cours (also can be translated as kuuru) this is a 3 month period similar to the US seasons but with American TV seasons are sometimes not like the weather seasons but can be half a year or a year of tv of indeterminate length.

Well with the increase of people getting anime via streaming and not just broadcast tv moving to a more miniseries format of 13 or 26 episodes (fall / spring) has more economic incentives than it did in the decade priors even though Japan was always more willing to do 13 or 26 episodes than the US.

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My point here even though those two points seem contradictory is the 50+ episode format is getting streched and changed due to multiple factors from multiple sides. The same applies to other tv industries such as the US though.