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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Following the advice from the other thread, here's two separate spells -one for providing (or enhancing) sentience and one for turning a creature Good.

    Awaken, Greater
    Necromancy ([Good])
    Level: Creation 6, Knowledge 6, Sor/Wiz 7
    Components: V, S, DF, XP
    Casting Time: 24 hours
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature or object touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Calling upon the powers of good, life, and creation, you grant a creature an immortal soul - or gift a sentient creature with greater mental acuity.

    You awaken a nonmagical object or a creature with less than 3 intelligence (including a mindless creature) to humanlike sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the creature’s current HD, or the HD the object will have once awakened).

    The newly awakened creature is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. Creatures you awaken become free-willed if they were originally under another creature's control (e.g. undead created with animate undead, most golems, etc.).

    An awakened object has characteristics as if it were an animated object, save that if it is a plant it gains the plant type and a Constitution score equal to 10 + its CR. You cannot awaken an object larger than one that a spellcaster of your level could animate with animate objects.

    Awakened animals and vermin become magical beasts with the augmented subtype.

    Awakened creatures gain Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of 3d6, with an additional +2 Wisdom for awakened animals, plants, and vermin. Recalculate skill points appropriately.

    Awakened mindless creatures lose the mindless quality and are therefore are susceptible to mind-affecting effects, unless they are also immune by virtue of their type (i.e. constructs and undead). They gain feats and skill points according to their type, Intelligence score, and Hit Dice. Awakened undead have vague memories of their former life and select feats and skills appropriately.

    An awakened creature's class skills are any skills listed in its monster entry, and either all class skills from its past life (if undead) or all skills from one of your classes (if non-undead).

    An awakened creature can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount unless its master has Improved Familiar or an equivalent feat, at the DM's option.

    An awakened non-undead creature can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). An awakened undead creature speaks one language from its past life, plus one additional language that it could have known at character creation in its past life per point of Intelligence bonus (if any).

    Enhance Sentience
    You may also use this spell to grant insight to a creature that already has an Intelligence score of 3 or greater. When you cast it in this way, increase all of the target's mental ability scores to 10 (recalculating the creature's skill points if its Intelligence increases).

    XP Cost
    250 XP to awaken a creature or object, or 5,000 XP to enhance a creature's sentience.

    Conversion
    Divination
    Level: Chaos 5, Evil 5, Good 5, Law 5
    Components: V, S, DF, XP
    Casting Time: 24 hours
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None; see below
    Spell Resistance: No; see below

    You convert a creature to your ultimate cause by forcing it to confront external (or internal) truths.

    This spell converts a creature's moral (good vs. evil) or ethical (chaotic vs. lawful) alignment to chaotic, evil, good, or lawful, as appropriate to the domain granting this spell. There are multiple methods by which the spell can accomplish this goal, but due to the casting time the target creature must generally be willing or helpless. Creatures that already possess the desired alignment are immune to this spell.

    As a divination effect this spell simply reveals subjective or objective truths about the cosmos or the target's own nature. Unless otherwise specified the spell does not permit a saving throw or spell resistance, and it may influence creatures immune to mind-affecting effects. However, mindless creatures lack all comprehension of morals and ethics and are therefore immune.

    Adopting the new alignment generally (but not necessarily) makes a creature friendly towards you and other similarly-aligned creatures.

    This spell may cause alterations in class, race, or other qualities at the DM's option. For example, a paladin converted to evil might immediately convert some or all of their paladin levels to blackguard levels (exchanging feats and skill ranks as appropriate to meet blackguard prerequisites), or an [Evil] outsider converted to good might gain the Ascendant Fiend template. An atonement spell may be required to access new class abilities, at the DM's option.

    As an instantaneous effect this spell cannot be directly reversed (save by other castings of conversion), though it is entirely possible for the subject to become embittered, serene, corrupt, or otherwise regain its original alignment through the normal course of events.

    Whenever you cast this spell to convert a creature to a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful alignment, it is a spell of that type.

    Divided Self
    The creature enters into a mental battle against its own inner demons (or angels). Treat this as though it had looked into a mirror of opposition, save that the creature's mind is transported to the Astral Plane (as if by astral projection) where it begins an encounter with its duplicate (both at full health, with a full complement of prepared spells etc.). The duplicate's level is equal to your caster level rather than the subject's level. If the creature wins, it is awarded XP as appropriate, returns to its body, and becomes immune to this version of the spell. If it loses, it succumbs to its suppressed alignment tendencies and awakens back in its body with the new alignment.

    Enlightenment
    The creature has a sudden epiphany into the benefits (spiritual, material, or otherwise) of the desired alignment, and immediately changes its alignment appropriately. This version of the spell allows both a Will save (with a +4 bonus) and spell resistance to negate the effect, and a creature that successfully saves or resists becomes immune to this version of the spell.

    Persuasion
    For the next 24 hours, all creatures gain a +30 circumstance bonus on Diplomacy checks made to persuade the target to adopt the new alignment. After this time expires, the target becomes immune to this version of the spell if it has not changed its alignment.

    Vision Quest
    The creature falls unconscious and experiences several lengthy and powerful visions, inspiring it to become an hero or villain of the new alignment. After 24 hours it awakens with the new alignment and immediately gains a level in a PC class of the DM's choice (a creature with one or fewer Hit Dice may instead exchange that Hit Dice for a level in a PC class). Additionally, the target gains the elite array for its ability scores (before adding racial modifiers). Creatures with levels in a PC class are immune to this version of the spell.

    Wages of Freedom/Order/Sin/Virtue
    The creature is constantly beset by attacks of conscience, corrupting impulses, or similar thoughts (all of which are genuinely inherent to the creature, albeit magnified by the spell). Treat this as a geas/quest to act in accordance with the desired alignment, save that the duration is instantaneous, the creature also suffers penalties as for a lesser geas, and whenever it triggers penalties from the effect it suffers a nightmare the next time it sleeps. This effect continues until the creature chooses the adopt the new alignment of its own free will. A creature that dies while under this effect makes a Will save; if successful it becomes immune to this version of the spell (assuming it is later restored to life) but if it fails it rises as a ghost under this effect on the next night.

    XP Cost
    250 XP.
    Last edited by rferries; 2018-03-21 at 03:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    much better this time as the name of the spell and what it does finaly mach instead of this is mind rape for greater good the old spell does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    To succeed, you must make a Will save
    Why is the caster making a will save? The affected creature should be making the will save. In the case of objects, I'd rule that they need to be affected with animate objects and then this spell, and this spell effectively works as permanency.
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    Going to see how well I am at making homebrew.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    killing and eating a bag of rats is probably kosher.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking), and your humility is stunning

    "I hope that you don't get the impression that I would munchkin the rules if I was in a D&D world IRL... Even though I totally would" -Myself

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    much better this time as the name of the spell and what it does finaly mach instead of this is mind rape for greater good the old spell does.
    Thanks, good to know it's looking better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    Why is the caster making a will save? The affected creature should be making the will save. In the case of objects, I'd rule that they need to be affected with animate objects and then this spell, and this spell effectively works as permanency.
    It's based off of awaken, so the wording is copied from there. Similarly, awaken can animate trees (which are objects by RAW) so I think animate objects can also be skipped in this case. Besides, animate objects + permanency should be a combo that works on its own to get you a loyal set of constructs (or at least it works that way in Pathfinder, I believe).

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    One bit of wording I'd add is making it so that Coversion lets you reselect levels, feats and class feature options with Alignment requirements to similar ones fitting your new alignment, because it otherwise ruins PCs who get hit with it that have an Alignment requirement. To avert metagaming, the build change could be defined by the DM, being used as the foe for the Divided Self version of the spell.

    This also makes Divided Self much more likely to succeed against the sorts with the most reason to have it used on them, as it averts the awkward "your copy has vastly fewer meaningful abilities because they're an invalid Alignment" thing that renders Mirror of Opposition nearly useless against Paladins.
    Last edited by Morphic tide; 2018-03-21 at 01:41 PM.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    One bit of wording I'd add is making it so that Coversion lets you reselect levels, feats and class feature options with Alignment requirements to similar ones fitting your new alignment, because it otherwise ruins PCs who get hit with it that have an Alignment requirement. To avert metagaming, the build change could be defined by the DM, being used as the foe for the Divided Self version of the spell.

    This also makes Divided Self much more likely to succeed against the sorts with the most reason to have it used on them, as it averts the awkward "your copy has vastly fewer meaningful abilities because they're an invalid Alignment" thing that renders Mirror of Opposition nearly useless against Paladins.
    I've added a clause about new builds (thanks for pointing that out!), but I don't think it actually applies to Divided Self. A mirror of opposition duplicate "has all the possessions and powers of its original", no mention of needing to meet the prerequisites for those powers.

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    .
    While Conversion spell is highly inspired and well thought out mechanically, I find it to be missing the point on several angles:
    1. A good preacher lets "the words of god" speak for themselves, converting listeners by sheer power of persuasion. A 24-hour ritual (vs. a willing or helpless target) just doesn't paint that picture.
    2. It's hard for me to see how an effect that targets an individual and doesn't require an attack roll would also not allow SR.
    3. There seem to be too many different ways for achieving the same result. I find it to be an unnecessary complication.
    4. I hope that the Chaos/Evil/Good/Law distinction doesn't stand for domains, because the official rules offer some backdoors for gaining domains.


    This is how I'd do it:


    Enlighten the Infidels
    Divination
    Level: Cleric 5
    Components: V, S, F (holy symbol)
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: Target Creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: No
    SR: Yes

    This spell converts a creature's moral (good vs. evil) or ethical (chaotic vs. lawful) alignment to that of the caster's deity, provided the caster shares alignment with his/her deity.
    The spell channels and amplifies the caster's reasoning and persuasiveness vs. the target creature's life experiences and inner conviction, forcing it to confront external (or internal) truths.

    One axis is affected per casting, even if the caster has a dual alignment extreme (e.g. LG) or no alignment extreme (N).

    To find out if the target is affected or not, make an opposed check between the caster's Diplomacy skill and the target's level (1d20 + HD + Wis-mod) or Sense Motive check (whichever's higher).
    If the caster prevails, the creature has a sudden epiphany into the benefits (spiritual, material, or otherwise) of the desired alignment, and immediately changes its alignment appropriately.
    If the target prevails, it becomes immune to the spell by that caster, until such time when the caster either gains a level or additional ranks in Diplomacy.

    Adopting the new alignment generally (but not necessarily) makes a creature friendly towards you and other similarly-aligned creatures.

    As a divination effect this spell simply reveals subjective or objective truths about the cosmos or the target's own nature. Therefore it may influence creatures immune to mind-affecting effects. However, mindless creatures lack all comprehension of morals and ethics and are therefore immune.

    Creatures that already possess the desired alignment are immune to this spell.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    While Conversion spell is highly inspired and well thought out mechanically, I find it to be missing the point on several angles:
    1. A good preacher lets "the words of god" speak for themselves, converting listeners by sheer power of persuasion. A 24-hour ritual (vs. a willing or helpless target) just doesn't paint that picture.
    2. It's hard for me to see how an effect that targets an individual and doesn't require an attack roll would also not allow SR.
    3. There seem to be too many different ways for achieving the same result. I find it to be an unnecessary complication.
    4. I hope that the Chaos/Evil/Good/Law distinction doesn't stand for domains, because the official rules offer some backdoors for gaining domains.
    1. Yep, that's the intent of the persuasion version.

    2. In line with the "this is not a mind-affecting spell" clause and the whole "proselytising, not mind-controlling" aspect, I felt it shouldn't allow spell resistance except for the more direct/aggressive versions (e.g. the enlightenment version). Although you use magic, it's to create a non-magical effect (same as acid fog, glibness, etc.), if that makes sense.

    3. In the original thread it was pointed out that you could simply jam a helm of opposite alignment on a foe's head until they rolled a natural 1 on their saving throw. This spell allows you multiple attempts to influence a foe, but it can't be "spammed" - once a foe has resisted all the different versions they're immune to further attempts to "brainwash" them into being your alignment.

    Plus, I quite like the flavourful options of binding (the core spell) so I tried to duplicate that :)

    4. It's beyond the scope of my homebrew to account for all possible tricks, so the Archivists are free to start their alignment-modifying empire with my blessing :D

    This is how I'd do it:

    Enlighten the Infidels
    Divination
    Level: Cleric 5
    Components: V, S, F (holy symbol)
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: Target Creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: No
    SR: Yes

    This spell converts a creature's moral (good vs. evil) or ethical (chaotic vs. lawful) alignment to that of the caster's deity, provided the caster shares alignment with his/her deity.
    The spell channels and amplifies the caster's reasoning and persuasiveness vs. the target creature's life experiences and inner conviction, forcing it to confront external (or internal) truths.

    One axis is affected per casting, even if the caster has a dual alignment extreme (e.g. LG) or no alignment extreme (N).

    To find out if the target is affected or not, make an opposed check between the caster's Diplomacy skill and the target's level (1d20 + HD + Wis-mod) or Sense Motive check (whichever's higher).
    If the caster prevails, the creature has a sudden epiphany into the benefits (spiritual, material, or otherwise) of the desired alignment, and immediately changes its alignment appropriately.
    If the target prevails, it becomes immune to the spell by that caster, until such time when the caster either gains a level or additional ranks in Diplomacy.

    Adopting the new alignment generally (but not necessarily) makes a creature friendly towards you and other similarly-aligned creatures.

    As a divination effect this spell simply reveals subjective or objective truths about the cosmos or the target's own nature. Therefore it may influence creatures immune to mind-affecting effects. However, mindless creatures lack all comprehension of morals and ethics and are therefore immune.

    Creatures that already possess the desired alignment are immune to this spell.
    This looks good!
    Last edited by rferries; 2018-04-22 at 06:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    2. In line with the "this is not a mind-affecting spell" clause and the whole "proselytising, not mind-controlling" aspect, I felt it shouldn't allow spell resistance except for the more direct/aggressive versions (e.g. the enlightenment version). Although you use magic, it's to create a non-magical effect (same as acid fog, glibness, etc.), if that makes sense.
    Ok, maybe the 24-hours casting time makes it reasonable.



    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    1. Yep, that's the intent of the persuasion version.
    The +30 modifier seems to make that option a guaranteed success, given that you already have the target helpless (i.e. unable to escape to avoid Diplomacy checks).



    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    This looks good!
    Thanks.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Greater Awaken, Conversion (spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    The +30 modifier seems to make that option a guaranteed success, given that you already have the target helpless (i.e. unable to escape to avoid Diplomacy checks).
    There's no explicit DC for "changing someone's alignment". It's up to the DM:

    1) DC 50 (as for changing a creature from hostile to friendly)

    2) DC = opponent's level + Wis or Cha, as for your spell

    3) DC 150 (as for changing a creature from hostile to fanatic)

    4) A series of diplomacy checks to shift the target from hostile to friendly/fanatic step-by-step, which must be performed by different creatures since Diplomacy retries by the same character don't always work.

    5) Some other DC

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