5e Blackguard[PEACH, Open WIP]

[demonslayerelf]

Allo all. I tried this a while back, if this seems familiar to anyone. Fact was, I tried to make it a perfect replica of 3.5's blackguard, with smite, sneak attack, etc., and it worked out pretty poorly. This time through, I decided to make it wholly unique. In the process, it became less "Anti-paladin" and more "Hell Knight", which I think helps it out quite a bit. It isn't done, but much like most of my projects, I find myself slowly losing ideas over time, and it will likely require much more time to be truly complete. I wanted to throw it out for you all to see it, get some feedback, but also to just hear if anyone has ideas.

Anyway...

Here it is.

Feedback is always appreciated.

[ShadowSandbag]

First thing i see is that the ability is sometimes called shadow claw, sometimes called Shadow Hand, you should make that consistent.
I would add the proficiency dice numbers to the sheet like Maneuver die for people who don't have the DMG handy.
Hellfire Orb is too powerful in my opinion, 2d6(minimum) damage isn't great, but its a 15-ft AOE with no cost if I'm reading correctly
Same with Shadowfire, I think the solution is to buff them both a bit and have them cost a point to use.
Ill Rigger is worded oddly, if someone normally had a +# and I have a +3 WIS modifier, it would do nothing, but if I only have a +1 WIS modifier then they would only have +2.
Abyssal Shadows suffers from the same problem as the earlier shadow claw abilities where at the moment it is a strict upgrade over using the normal shadow claw attack since it is free. Since it also gives healing and lowers MAX HP, it should cost something to use.

As an action on the turn or turn after the blackguard kills a creature in a painful or excessive way, such as torture or large amounts of damage in excess of what is necessary, the blackguard may revel in their slaughter, and regain 1 cruelty point. If the creature was a beast, celestial, or humanoid, the blackguard gains an additional point. If the creature was good-aligned, they gain an additional point.

This needs a more specific trigger. What counts as excessive damage in combat?
Fiendish Transformation is listed on the table as the capstone but has no description anywhere.

The first part of Fell Hand seems like a lot if I'm reading it right. Is it just I roll a d20+Str and i reduce the damage by that much? That's how it is written now and is way too strong.
Abyssal Constitution is really strong, I'd say you can roll twice and take the better of them, and limit it to 2 times a long rest.
Abyssal Spellcraft just doubles the number of spells they have per day right now, which is really powerful. The part about regaining one spell on short rest is good and I would expand on that to replace the first part of the feature. The thing about cantrips is nice, but is useless at levels 5,6,7,11, 12, 17,18,19 & 20.
Shadowcasting has no entry
Limited Magic Immunity is also really good as it is now. I would change it so that you automatically pass any saving throws for spells of that level or lower, but in exchange it just gives up the spell slot, no cruelty.
Succubus is fine but I would remove the disadvantage on the initial saving throw.
Yugoloth is good, but needs a bit of clarification, on first reading i thought that the blackguard gets to cast sanctuary on their allies equal to WIS mod, not that the sanctuary on the Blackguard affects the one creature and a number of the creatures allies

After this it goes off the right side of the page and needs reformatting and only the Devil has a level 18 ability.

Overall I like it alot, it has some real neat things going for it but does need some more work done. Great job!

[demonslayerelf]

First thing i see is that the ability is sometimes called shadow claw, sometimes called Shadow Hand, you should make that consistent.
I would add the proficiency dice numbers to the sheet like Maneuver die for people who don't have the DMG handy.

Good notes, I'll put the die value next to the number on the table.

Looking at the Shadow-Claw/Hand thing, though, that's because they ARE two different things... Sort of. Shadow Claw is the ability, but the blackguard always has their "Shadow Hand" from 2nd level forward. It's basically a permanent mark that they hand, and that they turn into claws and flames and stuff.

Hellfire Orb is too powerful in my opinion, 2d6(minimum) damage isn't great, but its a 15-ft AOE with no cost if I'm reading correctly
Same with Shadowfire, I think the solution is to buff them both a bit and have them cost a point to use.

Keep in mind that Cantrips exist. At 5th level, you could throw an orb, hit about 3 people with some halving the 2d6 damage. Or you could Poison Spray them, Create a Bonfire on them, etc.

Shadowfire is also just a little bit weird, because it's a bonus action to deal(At 5th level) 3 damage to upto 5 people within 15-30 feet.

The point is that both have lower damage, but effect more people, when compared to their contemporaries(Cantrips to Hellfire Orb and Shadow Claw to Shadowfire.)

Abyssal Shadows suffers from the same problem as the earlier shadow claw abilities where at the moment it is a strict upgrade over using the normal shadow claw attack since it is free. Since it also gives healing and lowers MAX HP, it should cost something to use.

The difference is that it takes your action. You could attack someone with two swings of a big sword for 2d8+10 or so damage, or you could do just 2d8(At 11th level) damage, heal 1d8, and reduce their max hitpoints by 2d8. In a combat, that really doesn't come up unless someone tries to heal the creature, so you're basically trading some damage for healing(Which you can do with Cruelty points, anyway), and stopping them from healing a bit of their health back.

The shadow claw is also a bonus action, not an action, so... There's not really competition there.

Ill Rigger is worded oddly, if someone normally had a +# and I have a +3 WIS modifier, it would do nothing, but if I only have a +1 WIS modifier then they would only have +2.

I think I fixed the phrasing on it; It was supposed to go down to 0, not stop short, I think I fixed it.

This needs a more specific trigger. What counts as excessive damage in combat?

That's up to the DM. I mean, I don't think I could provide one that works well. For instance, if I just gave a number(Say, 30 extra damage), that's nothing compared to a Dragon's health, so it misses the point, while that's far in excess of what a Goblin would need for it to trigger. If it's proportional to max health, then you could say it was "Just enough to be excessive", which is weird. If it's obviously way more than necessary, you get points back.

The first part of Fell Hand seems like a lot if I'm reading it right. Is it just I roll a d20+Str and i reduce the damage by that much? That's how it is written now and is way too strong.

When combined with other stuff, maybe... I mean, it's only 16ish on average, with a 20 strength score. For something once a round, twice per day, I don't think that's actually so bad. It's one relatively heavy hit at low levels. At higher levels, it almost feels like too little...
What would you think about having two proficiency dice+strength, instead? At low levels, that's 10(2d4+5), and at higher levels, it's 18(2d12+5).

Abyssal Constitution is really strong, I'd say you can roll twice and take the better of them, and limit it to 2 times a long rest.

I'm honestly missing how it's so powerful. It's basically just double advantage on a very specific roll. Are you misinterpreting it as a "Triple the effect", more or less?

Abyssal Spellcraft just doubles the number of spells they have per day right now, which is really powerful. The part about regaining one spell on short rest is good and I would expand on that to replace the first part of the feature. The thing about cantrips is nice, but is useless at levels 5,6,7,11, 12, 17,18,19 & 20.

It's intended to be powerful. The Night Hag is supposed to be the "Caster" subclass, so them getting twice as many spell slots(Still less than an actual spellcaster by a wide margin) isn't actually so big. They still learn very few spells with a very limited casting ability.(I mean, when you get the ability, it's really just another cantrip).

Yeah, you're right about the ritual. I'll change it to... Something. Probably some extra damage.

Limited Magic Immunity is also really good as it is now. I would change it so that you automatically pass any saving throws for spells of that level or lower, but in exchange it just gives up the spell slot, no cruelty.

That's a good idea. I'll probably move the current ability to a higher level ability for the subclass, since I really like it. :P

Succubus is fine but I would remove the disadvantage on the initial saving throw.

Noted.

Yugoloth is good, but needs a bit of clarification, on first reading i thought that the blackguard gets to cast sanctuary on their allies equal to WIS mod, not that the sanctuary on the Blackguard affects the one creature and a number of the creatures allies

I will try to find a better way to phrase it.

After this it goes off the right side of the page and needs reformatting and only the Devil has a level 18 ability.

Fiendish Transformation is listed on the table as the capstone but has no description anywhere.

Shadowcasting has no entry

Yep, it's still getting worked on :P
Those are basically just my little "Hey, use this name!" markers.

Overall I like it alot, it has some real neat things going for it but does need some more work done. Great job!

Much appreciated, thanks for going through this so thoroughly.

[ShadowSandbag]

Looking at the Shadow-Claw/Hand thing, though, that's because they ARE two different things... Sort of. Shadow Claw is the ability, but the blackguard always has their "Shadow Hand" from 2nd level forward. It's basically a permanent mark that they hand, and that they turn into claws and flames and stuff.

Ah, that makes sense. I would add a Shadow Hand Description separate from the claw and add the claw to the table.

Keep in mind that Cantrips exist. At 5th level, you could throw an orb, hit about 3 people with some halving the 2d6 damage. Or you could Poison Spray them, Create a Bonfire on them, etc.

The difference is that as far as I can think, all Cantrips are single target and have a save that makes it 0 damage/require an attack roll. As is this is strictly better than a cantrip but with the same availability.

When combined with other stuff, maybe... I mean, it's only 16ish on average, with a 20 strength score. For something once a round, twice per day, I don't think that's actually so bad. It's one relatively heavy hit at low levels. At higher levels, it almost feels like too little...
What would you think about having two proficiency dice+strength, instead? At low levels, that's 10(2d4+5), and at higher levels, it's 18(2d12+5).

Reducing damage by 16 at level 3 twice per short rest is still really strong. I would make it one proficiency die+level, maybe increasing to two at level 10.

I'm honestly missing how it's so powerful. It's basically just double advantage on a very specific roll. Are you misinterpreting it as a "Triple the effect", more or less?

Double advantage on all healing rolls is still really strong IMO. Life Clerics are the go-to healers and they don't get anything close to that. That changes from an average of 3.5 on a d6 to a 4.9, which is pretty substantial.

It's intended to be powerful. The Night Hag is supposed to be the "Caster" subclass, so them getting twice as many spell slots(Still less than an actual spellcaster by a wide margin) isn't actually so big. They still learn very few spells with a very limited casting ability.(I mean, when you get the ability, it's really just another cantrip).
.

Alright, but at the moment it stands out as the strongest subclass by far.

In doing so, the blackguard's chosen creature and a number of the creatures allies equal to the blackguard's wisdom modifier treat the blackguard as being under the effects of Sanctuary.

I think that fixes the issue here and makes it clearer.

Like I said, i really like the class overall and hope to see more of it when you finish it. Please send me a DM or post it again when it is finished, I hope to see it!

[demonslayerelf]

Ah, that makes sense. I would add a Shadow Hand Description separate from the claw and add the claw to the table.

Good note, Ima do that.

The difference is that as far as I can think, all Cantrips are single target and have a save that makes it 0 damage/require an attack roll. As is this is strictly better than a cantrip but with the same availability.

Not quite. Most cantrips hit one person, but two things. 1- Those hit for more damage most of the time(Fire Bolt, Booming/GF Blade, Primal Savagery, Eldritch Blast...) and 2- Have the possibility of critting.
Likewise, there are also multi-target cantrips. I can name 2 without looking, both of which have higher damage at all points.(Acid Splash, Poison Spray) The difference is that Hellfire Orb halfs on a success, rather than no damage on a success, and has a large radius, while dealing a bit less damage. At level 5, HFO is at 2d6. At 5th level, Poison Spray is 2d12, and Acid Splash is 2d8. They just hit fewer people. At 20th level, it's 2d12 versus 4d12 and 4d8.

So, maybe it's a little bit better than a cantrip? But don't get me started on how a Warlock can do the same thing, but grossly more powerful. I know that's deflecting a little, but holy s#%*, I think that's worth mentioning.

Reducing damage by 16 at level 3 twice per short rest is still really strong. I would make it one proficiency die+level, maybe increasing to two at level 10.

Oh, I like that. At 3rd level that's 1d4+3... Which is pretty underwhelming, actually. And at 20, it's 1d12+20 damage... Hrm... Ima have to really think on this one.

Double advantage on all healing rolls is still really strong IMO. Life Clerics are the go-to healers and they don't get anything close to that. That changes from an average of 3.5 on a d6 to a 4.9, which is pretty substantial.

True, but it's only healing themselves. This wouldn't really change the cleric's roll, just reduce the number of people they need to be really concerned with. I think I might change it to rolling it twice, though. I'll think on it.

Alright, but at the moment it stands out as the strongest subclass by far.

I think that's because you haven't seen the other's higher level abilities. In true spellcasting fashion, the Night Hag subclass won't get as many powerful abilities. They'll get some, but it's not going to be as good, because they get the big boosts to spellcasting as they level up.

Like I said, i really like the class overall and hope to see more of it when you finish it. Please send me a DM or post it again when it is finished, I hope to see it!

Many thanks again, ShadowSandbag. SSB? SS? I dunno how to acronym. But thanks, I'll try to remember to :P