Diablo III: 4 - Necros Aren't Just for Posts Anymore!

[Lord Torath]

Previous Threads:
Diablo III: 2 - Don't Forget to Eat Today
Diablo III: 3 - Kanai Fix It?

Well I still die a lot as Wizard :P

I think this season's free set for Wizards is Firebirds so if you want to fix that "dying" problem you'll be covered.

Hah! At GR65, I could kill the Rift Guardian in 3 seconds! But I couldn't stay alive long enough to reach him going solo! I had to switch to a Delsere's Lightning Ball Build to get any further. I managed to solo GR75, and completed the Guardian chapter of the Season Journey. Now I'm switching to a Hardcore Crusader (Currently up to level 40).

The discussion at the end of the last thread focused on the pros and cons of D3 relative to other games in the genre (D2 et. al.) Carry on!

[Rynjin]

Haven't played the other two, alas, so I can't comment.

I will say in Diablo 3 I'm kid of addicted to extra life abilities, I just think they're really neato. Especially since when I'm playing with friends we inevitably pop into PvP to kill some time every now and then.

I think we've determined my Holy Shotgun Crusader is the undisputed king of PvP. You either let him attack you (and die) or attack him (and trigger an automatic Holy Shotgun, aka "die"), or give up.

[Psyren]

I'm having fun with Grim Dawn but honestly, I'm just killing time until Diablo 4. And I even think the Auction House wouldn't be a terrible idea if they combined it with the current loot model where it would be a nice bonus rather than mandatory to progress. But perhaps what Diablo really needs is a reboot and some serious retconning.

I will say in Diablo 3 I'm kid of addicted to extra life abilities, I just think they're really neato.

By this do you mean the cheat death stuff like Unstable Anomaly? Because if so I agree, although some classes definitely get the short end of the stick with their abilities. The necro is one of the worst, as theirs eats all their pets, punishing some builds disproportionately.

I think we've determined my Holy Shotgun Crusader is the undisputed king of PvP. You either let him attack you (and die) or attack him (and trigger an automatic Holy Shotgun, aka "die"), or give up.

Have they tried using a build with tons of invincibility frames or outranging you, (or both, e.g. Uliana Monk?)

[Rynjin]

By this do you mean the cheat death stuff like Unstable Anomaly? Because if so I agree, although some classes definitely get the short end of the stick with their abilities. The necro is one of the worst, as theirs eats all their pets, punishing some builds disproportionately.

Correct. It's part of the reason I like Crusader, because you can easily get 3-4 of them.

Have they tried using a build with tons of invincibility frames or outranging you, (or both, e.g. Uliana Monk?)

Both of the people I play with usually play Wizard, and I generally chase them down on my horse.

[Psyren]

Yeah, that would explain it - I don't PvP much at all, but a Wizard's burst is very weak. It's either easily avoided (Meteor, Orb) or very close range with no iframes protecting them (Explosive Blast, Energy Wave, Archon) - both of which would let you run up and shotgun their face off easily.

A build with extreme range or substantial iframes would be needed to properly challenge a shotgun crusader. Again, I don't PvP, but I'd probably try something like Uliana Monk, Jade/Chicken WD, Leapquake Barb, or just about any DH build other than Natalya.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My Frozen Core wizard might give the shotgun crusader a run for his money, unless you've got some immunity to cold/freezing thrown in there somewhere. Her whole shtick is making sure you DON'T get close, and peppering away at you from range. Frozen Orbs + Slow Time + Des = fun times.

[Psyren]

My Frozen Core wizard might give the shotgun crusader a run for his money, unless you've got some immunity to cold/freezing thrown in there somewhere. Her whole shtick is making sure you DON'T get close, and peppering away at you from range. Frozen Orbs + Slow Time + Des = fun times.

I imagine his shotgunsader uses Akkhan, which is part of the reason why he fries wizards so easily. Akarat's Champion makes you immune to CC, and Akkhan builds strive for near-100% uptime on it. Ergo, since you can't keep your distance and you have no iframes to survive up close, you would get stomped quickly in PvP. Even for Wizard builds that do manage a lot of burst, Akkhan also has multiple cheat death mechanics as Ryn mentioned above, allowing them to stay in the wizard's face until the job is done.

This is mostly theory of course - I haven't seen the actual builds being used here (and again, I don't PvP much, I just know the abilities being used.) I'm assuming things like no major gear disparity and roughly equal skill.

[Tvtyrant]

I finally got my witch doctor to level 70 today! Need to go get Kanai's Cube next, and grinding set blueprints for helltooth.

I see what people mean about CC declining. I used my pure CC+Gargantuan build all the way up to 70, but bounties are so hard that way I finally gave up and moved over to a more DPS heavy build.

[Lord Torath]

Congrats! I've got my HC Crusader up to 66. Four more levels until I can start getting Set gear. Currently I'm using a Blessed Hammer build. What I end up with will depend on what gear I find.

Oh, I got two Primal Ancients so far this season: Death's Bargain pants and the Butcher's Sickle. Why couldn't they give me something useful?

[Tvtyrant]

Congrats! I've got my HC Crusader up to 66. Four more levels until I can start getting Set gear. Currently I'm using a Blessed Hammer build. What I end up with will depend on what gear I find.

Oh, I got two Primal Ancients so far this season: Death's Bargain pants and the Butcher's Sickle. Why couldn't they give me something useful?

I haven't gotten any primal ancients.... Is T4 not high enough?

Also getting a good set to drop seems impossible. I spent 12 hours grinding T4 rifts and bounties and none of the sets were even class specific.

[tyckspoon]

I haven't gotten any primal ancients.... Is T4 not high enough?

Also getting a good set to drop seems impossible. I spent 12 hours grinding T4 rifts and bounties and none of the sets were even class specific.

Primal Ancients unlock when you clear a Greater Rift level 70 or higher while solo. They're a reward/thing to chase for further improvement for players who have already found the items they need for their builds and are looking to squeeze out a further edge by getting better versions of those items, mostly.

Sets just need persistence. They're a lot easier to gain once you can get up to T6-ish and farm the associated rift/Greater Rift difficulty levels, but you have kind of a chicken/egg situation there because that requires good legendary properties and/or set bonuses to achieve, so.. have patience, keep trying, and don't be afraid to cobble together a build using the legendary items you do get while trying to turn up sets. (And don't forget Kadala and the Cube recipe for turning a set item into a different piece of that set when the game inevitably gives you three sets of the same boots.)

[Psyren]

I haven't gotten any primal ancients.... Is T4 not high enough?

Primal Ancients unlock when you clear a Greater Rift level 70 or higher while solo. They're a reward/thing to chase for further improvement for players who have already found the items they need for their builds and are looking to squeeze out a further edge by getting better versions of those items, mostly.

To add to tyckspoon's explanation, GR 70 = T15, so you need to at the very least be able to handle T13 solo. Remember also that every 2 Torment levels, monster health and damage double.

Sets just need persistence. They're a lot easier to gain once you can get up to T6-ish and farm the associated rift/Greater Rift difficulty levels, but you have kind of a chicken/egg situation there because that requires good legendary properties and/or set bonuses to achieve, so.. have patience, keep trying, and don't be afraid to cobble together a build using the legendary items you do get while trying to turn up sets. (And don't forget Kadala and the Cube recipe for turning a set item into a different piece of that set when the game inevitably gives you three sets of the same boots.)

You can also play Seasons for a leg up via Haedrig's Gift, i.e. free set.

But tyckspoon is correct again, Kadala and the Cube are your best tool for cutting through the RNG problems. Neither care about difficulty either - you will have the same shot at good loot from them on T4 that you would on T10.

[Tvtyrant]

I am rather irritated with the game right now. I am now paragon 200, and have two torment 7+ solo characters. My witch doctor who relies on pets and DoT effects with helltooth, and my Barbarian charger with raekor.

The stupid barbarian got 4 pieces of the raekor set in like an hour, and no deals 50+ million a hit while the witch doctor grinding has taken 20+ hours to get a similar total output (but really 700k a hit with many hits a second).

Darn RNG.


Edit: Weird glitch has made me rich. On a bounty in act V the goblin that opens the vault would keep showing up in the same place right before the boss. It would reset the bounty and then be there again, so financially I am set.

[Lord Torath]

My HC Crusader is finally up to Torment 2. She's got Faithful Memory burnt into the cube, but I have yet to find any of the Seeker for the Light set. Currently wearing Roland's shoulders, and Blackthorn's chest armor. And I only have one ring/amulet with a socket, so I'm rocking Bane of the Powerful 15 (although I just found Bane of the Trapped, and have it at Rank 5). I've got everything I need for a Hellfire amulet except for the 5 million gold to buy the recipe...

Edit: I'm now up to almost 200 paragon levels on my HC Crusader, and I'm going with a Blessed Shield build. I've got Gyrfalcon's Foot, so I'm not spending any wrath. I've got Molten Wildebeest's Gizzard up to Rank 25, which generates a shield equal to double my life per second. Combined with my cubed Boots of Disregard and the rest of my gear, I'm rocking 92,000 life per second, giving me a shield of 184,000 life. Am I better using Ashnagar's Blood bracers (increases shield effectiveness by 75-100%) or the Aquila Cuirass for 50% damage reduction?

*New thing I learned today: There is no "beast" in the correct spelling of "wildebeest".

[Psyren]

Aquila Cuirass definitely. Blood Bracers, in addition to being wizard-only, don't work on the Gizzard's shield. It only works on shields that come from skills, e.g. Galvanizing Ward and Magic Weapon -> Deflection.

You didn't mention your set but it goes without saying that Akkhan is the best one (save LoN) for a Blessed Shield build, to the point that even the non-set matching item Bracers of Akkhan works with it.

[tyckspoon]

Am I better using Ashnagar's Blood bracers (increases shield effectiveness by 75-100%) or the Aquila Cuirass for 50% damage reduction?

Aquila Cuirass is an excellent defensive item for resource-free builds. Although the torso slot is almost uniformly eaten by a set chestpiece, which means you'll probably be Cubing it eventually. As for comparing shield efficiency, consider that 50% damage reduction means your shield can absorb 100% more damage anyway.

[Lord Torath]

Good points. I figured I'd cube or wear a Ring of Royal Grandeur (when I find it) to allow me to wear the Cuirass instead of the Akkan chest piece (currently wearing Roland's chest armor, as I haven't completed the Akkan set, yet. Still need the helmet and the breastplate). That lets me keep the Boots of Disregard for that high Life per Second. Currently I've got Dovu's Energy Trap cubed, and I'm wearing the Endless Walk and an Ancient Wailing Host for jewelry.

I think an Akkan Bombardment-Steed Charge build could be fun too. Assuming I can assemble the right gear....

[Psyren]

The boots don't scale with difficulty unfortunately, so they get eclipsed quickly - particularly as you start taking several orders more magnitude of damage in a second than they can regen. As you get higher up, they provide less and less benefit, even with the MWG gem.

When you finally do replace them in your cube with Aquila, you'll realize an even stronger benefit - being able to drop RRoG for a better ring. Specifically, you'll be able to use either Unity or OROTZ there instead, and thus achieve 100% uptime on Akarat's Champion much more easily (or 75% DR, if cooldowns aren't an issue) while also wearing your Compass Rose and CoE for big damage. This also lets you drop MWG for a better legendary gem. I would say the top 3 are Bane of the Trapped, Gogok of Swiftness, and Bane of the Powerful/Stricken in that order. (Powerful below GR70 and for speedfarming, Stricken above it).

[tyckspoon]

When you finally do replace them in your cube with Aquila, you'll realize an even stronger benefit - being able to drop RRoG for a better ring. Specifically, you'll be able to use either Unity or OROTZ there instead, and thus achieve 100% uptime on Akarat's Champion much more easily (or 75% DR, if cooldowns aren't an issue) while also wearing your Compass Rose and CoE for big damage. This also lets you drop MWG for a better legendary gem. I would say the top 3 are Bane of the Trapped, Gogok of Swiftness, and Bane of the Powerful/Stricken in that order. (Powerful below GR70 and for speedfarming, Stricken above it).

Justice Lantern is a decent toughness option if you have a spare ring space as well, and allows you to have its benefit in multiplayer when you can't carry around an invulnerable follower to wear the other Unity. OROTZ is not as great for a Blessed Shield build as it could be - the fixed properties on it are nearly ideal, but IIRC the Legendary trait (reduced cooldown when you use a resource-spending attack) no longer triggers with free Blessed Shield. If I'm wrong, then yeah, OROTZ is great and 100% uptime Akharat's Champion - Prophet is a huge survival benefit too.

[Psyren]

Justice Lantern is a decent toughness option if you have a spare ring space as well, and allows you to have its benefit in multiplayer when you can't carry around an invulnerable follower to wear the other Unity. OROTZ is not as great for a Blessed Shield build as it could be - the fixed properties on it are nearly ideal, but IIRC the Legendary trait (reduced cooldown when you use a resource-spending attack) no longer triggers with free Blessed Shield. If I'm wrong, then yeah, OROTZ is great and 100% uptime Akharat's Champion - Prophet is a huge survival benefit too.

Other way around I think - it used to not trigger but now it does. If I'm wrong though then yeah, JL works instead.

EDIT: Yeah just checked and OROTZ doesn't work on it. Sadpanda.

[Traab]

Heh, I finally bit the bullet and bought the necro class. Speaking from the lofty level of 12 I have to say so far its a lot of fun! Corpse explosion is handy for slaughtering those tightly packed swarms, bone spear is a hefty chunk of damage, and my little aoe bone spikes attack is a handy dandy little generator. Also am glad to have my skeletal pets back. Thats big fun.

[Lord Torath]

Obsidian Ring o'th' Zodiac works great with the Blessed Hammer build, though, so when I get enough of the gear, I'll go with that. I've got about half the gear I need for Blessed Hammer, but I specifically still need Johanna's flail and shield, which seem to be pretty rare.

I've completed GR35 (Torment 8) with 7-8 minutes to spare, and I usually don't trigger my regular Cheat Death (I've never triggered Akkarat's Champion's cheat death). But I'm still playing T7. And Kadala has not been much of a friend to me lately.

So Boots of Disregard are worth 10-40k life per second and 20-80k life in my shield. Aquila Cuirass is worth about 500k life (I currently have about 800k health, and a shield worth about 180k). Seems pretty strongly to favor Aquila. If and when I find it, anyway.

I'd kind of like to swap out the Gizzard for the Gogok of Quickness or Zei's Stone of Vengeance, but the high regen from the gizzard is hard to give up on Hardcore...

[Psyren]

Don't forget that damage reduction (Aquila) also effectively doubles your life regen. You recover the same amount of health, but only feel half the incoming damage.

If you're playing on Hardcore you should absolutely have a defensive gem, the opportunity cost of a random death is far too high in terms of time lost. MWG and EA are both fine.

[Lord Torath]

Finally found Aquilla, and a pair of Unity rings. My incoming damage has been reduced by a factor of 4! I managed to clear a GR60 solo, which allowed me to jump into a Public T13 Game. A few Rifts and Vaults (and a Not-the-Cow Level) later, I've got everything I need to the Holy Shotgun build, and everything except Johanna's stuff for the Blessed Hammer build. I've heard about the Holy Shotgun build, but never actually played it. I think I'm going to give it a try.

I've been using Leoric's Crown with a FR Diamond and the RoRG (since I didn't have Akkan's helmet) to help with cooldowns, which left be about a 3-second gap between the end of Akarat's Champion and when I could restart it. Now that I've found Akkan's helm, the gap has increased to about 6-7 seconds.

I finally found a Witching Hour belt. I've been using Krelm's Buff Belt, for that +25% movement speed I get as long as my MWG-generated shield is still operating. Witching hour greatly increases my Critical Hit damage, but I kind of miss the speed.

I want more slots in my armory. I've got a Blessed Hammer build, a Blessed Shield build, a Gold Blessed Shield build (Boon of the Hoarder instead of Bane of the Powerful and Gold Wrap instead of Krelm's Buff Belt/Witching Hour). Then I want to try the Holy Shotgun build. But I also want co-op builds, where it switches out Unity for something else for each of my builds (Justice Lantern for Shotgun, maybe Convention of Elements for other builds), which doubles the number of slots I need.

[Psyren]

@ Space: I do a character of each gender and two sets per character. That generally gives me plenty of Armory space to go around, plus I get to enjoy the differing aesthetics (voice lines, animations, and models) of each one.

Spoiler: Vorthos Nerd-gasm

Show

Several of the Diablo 3 VAs show up in other games and even some other media, so it's always fun to recognize them. Plus, IMO, some sets look better on a specific gender; for example, Uliana looks downright comical on a female monk due to the oversized helmet/chest/shoulders, but on the male monk it fits better and gives them a wicked looking chest tattoo. Another example is Immortal King (Queen in my case) - the IK helm looks boss on both barbarians, but for the female one in particular you get all her bright red hair flowing out the back and it fits pretty well. In addition, some of the sets were passed down from their previous owner who had a specific gender, so my inner Vorthos likes the idea of continuing that tradition since it would make sense for the gear to be made with that in mind. Invoker is an example of that; the previous owner was canonically a femsader so I can view it as having got passed down to mine. Finally, I also like defying stereotypes in some cases, i.e. making the female the big melee bruiser (Rolands, Invoker) while the male is the less physical caster (Light, Akkhan).

@ Holy Shotgun - I had actually forgotten that one got buffed and it should work with OROTZ. I should have all the pieces so I'll try it this evening.

[Lord Torath]

I finally cleared a GR70 solo Hard Core! And even better, the next rift I ran got me a Primal Ancient Johanna's Argument!

Edit: So, uh, funny story... My hardcore crusader is no longer quite as hardcore as she used to be. I should have waited another half second before charging into that next group of baddies in that last GR70...

So now I'm starting a new one. All the way up to level 12. Fortunately I had a Hellfire Amulet, and when you combine that with Byorsky's Chip and 528 paragon levels, baddies kill themselves just by attacking you. Kinda fun.

On the plus side, I was NOT, in fact, wielding my PA Johanna's Argument (still sporting the Blessed Shield build), so I didn't lose that. And I already found a low-level Leoric's Crown, so putting a Flawless Royal Ruby in there nearly doubles my XP gain. If only I'd level a Gem of Ease up to 25....

[Kadesh]

So, given that there's not been much activity on hear, I'm not sure if this is technically Necro. Anyway, hope I can have a bit of help with trying to gear a prospective Necromancer. I'm a fan of Legacy of Nightmare builds, and want to make a Melee Necro-Cursemancer out of it. I've tried a Trag'oul's build before, but don't really like it. That said, with the current Season being about Bounties, I thought why not try and get a Speedy build with it as well. I have next to no interest in tabling, so that's not a concern, and more about seeing if I can gear for this badlad.

I've come up with the following theorycraft while I level (as well as having come to the conclusion that there is too much gear with not enough effect for a Necromancer - condensing some of the builds and giving new mechanics would be a neat improvement IMHO). I'd put a link, but I don't have anywhere near the gear.

Skills

Actives; LMB; Grim Scythe (Frost Scythe), RMB; Bone Armour (Harvest of Anguish), Devour (Devouring Aura), Decrepify (Dizzying Curse), Leech (Osmosis), Frailty (Aura of Frailty)
Passives; Fueled by Death, Swift Harvesting, Spreading Malediction Draw Life

Gear

Head; Andariel's Visage (Guaranteed +Cold Damage and Increased Attack Speed)
Shoulders; Pauldron's of the Skeleton King (I don't like to switch gear - helps with Grifting and frees up a passive slot, gives increased resilience in the form of Guaranteed Armor and Vit)
Chest; Requiem Cereplate (Devour keeps Health and Essence topped up)
Bracers; Ancient Parthan Defenders (Increased Damage Resistance while there are Stunned enemies nearby
Gloves; Frostburn (+Crit Chance, Cold Damage and Chance to Freeze enemies)
Waist; Dayntee's (Additional Damage Resist)
Legs; Depth Diggers (Obvious)
Boots; Illusory Boots (for just ghosting between elite packs)

Weapon; Rimeheart (Shattering Frozen enemies from Frostburn Gloves)
Shield; Lidless Wall (+Cold Damage, +Int, +Essence to have more lee-way with Aquila Cuirass)

Rings; Legacy of Nightmares
Amulet; Wisdom of Kalan; Additional damage resist from Bone Armour

Cube
- Trag'ouls Corroded Fang; does this provde bonus damage to cursed enemies despite not using Cursed Scythe? If not, what else to go for?
- Aquila Cuirass; none-resource build? Are you surprised? (Cereplate has one more minor affix, hence why that's being used)
- Ess of Johan; gathering up hordes into nice compact curseable blobs

Harvest of Anguish gives me a move speed bonus, as does Fueled by Death combined with Devouring Aura. Liberal use of the Ess of Johan to blob and curse enemies; Decrepify's rune triggers Ancient Parthans (which goes off even more thanks to Swift Harvesting and Frost Scythe's attack speed buff); Leech helps with resilience between the kills and when fighting the Rift Boss, while Frailty is obvious. I was stuck for a better Rune, although faster clears with exploding enemies might be fun.

Frostburn+Rimeheart+Grim Scythe seems pretty fun to me.

What Gems should I go for? Trapped and Stricken are going to be necessary. I'd love for an excuse to use Iceblink, but is Gogok going to be too necessary do you reckon?

Thanks!

[Psyren]

It's tough for me to visualize the whole build from all that text. Want to plug those skills/items into https://www.d3planner.com/ and link the result?

It appears to be a generator-only build so I would recommend Simplicity's Strength as your third gem, which is both offense and defense in one tidy package.

[lord_khaine]

But perhaps what Diablo really needs is a reboot and some serious retconning.

This kinda.

It is a bit of a problem, that each game kinda needs to go further somehow.
And here in the last game it was suddenly no longer enough to defeat Diable. It had to be a fusion of all the prime evils.
There isnt that many places this can go now.

[Keltest]

This kinda.

It is a bit of a problem, that each game kinda needs to go further somehow.
And here in the last game it was suddenly no longer enough to defeat Diable. It had to be a fusion of all the prime evils.
There isnt that many places this can go now.

Last I heard, theyre done with Diablo as the main antagonist of the series, and any further games are going to examine other aspects of the world.