New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 5 of 51 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141530 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 1511
  1. - Top - End - #121
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    And now, if they had let the kids die, they wouldn't be penniless, now would they?
    So you admit that the punishment should be dealt to whoever perpetrated it, no matter the reason? And thus that Hilgya is responsible for any innocents she may have hurt by acting against teh clan?
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  2. - Top - End - #122
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    And now, if they had let the kids die, they wouldn't be penniless, now would they?
    But by your own logic they were put in a bad situation and did the easiest thing they could to a person not involved to resolve it. In this hypothetical they are just as blameless as you claim Hilgya is for exactly the same reasons.

  3. - Top - End - #123
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    Who said it even had to be one specific thing? Given that Hilgya's already shown herself to be comfortable with murder, and that she defaults to it as a possible solution when given a problem, it's not hard to surmise that she might not have been totally innocent to begin with. Besides, her consistently being a problem would be a much more robust justification than any singular incident would.

    More to the point, that's really not what I was getting at to begin with. The presumption that "she musta done somethin'" is every bit as valid as "we don't see her do anything, so being in an arranged marriage must be a spontaneous act of malice". And that was in turn to point out that the "evil trees" worldview doesn't work, because it's entirely possible (and incredibly likely) for people to be circular in harming each other.
    Problem is, if she had committed a crime, she could be jailed for it. And we'd not be having this conversation. And if she didn't commit a crime, then marrying her off at crossbow point is an absolutely evil and unforgivable act that rightly resulted in the clan losing all it had.

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    But by your own logic they were put in a bad situation and did the easiest thing they could to a person not involved to resolve it. In this hypothetical they are just as blameless as you claim Hilgya is for exactly the same reasons.
    Sure. And they can take it up with the hostage-taker. And maybe with his entire family. Tree of evil, y'know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    So you admit that the punishment should be dealt to whoever perpetrated it, no matter the reason? And thus that Hilgya is responsible for any innocents she may have hurt by acting against teh clan?
    Well, if the clans had their arms twisted - doubtful, but let's go with it - they can take it up with whoever did the arm twisting. Selling the man's body and those of his loved ones to golem makers should restore their fortune and balance in the world.
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2018-04-07 at 09:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  4. - Top - End - #124
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Problem is, if she had committed a crime, she could be jailed for it. And we'd not be having this conversation. And if she didn't commit a crime, then marrying her off at crossbow point is an absolutely evil and unforgivable act that rightly resulted in the clan losing all it had.
    Ah, so it only matters if it affects Hilgya. Gotcha.

    Also, attempted murder is a crime. She attempted to murder Ivan. She committed a crime.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  5. - Top - End - #125
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    I can think of a lot of circumstances in which it's justified to kill someone. (There are a lot in the comic.)

    None where it's justified to kill a family down to the children. (That happens once in the comic.)

    And none where it's justified to force someone into a marriage they don't want. (That is attempted once onstage, once in a flashback, and several other times in the comic--by Tarquin--in addition to the example with Hilgya, of course.)

  6. - Top - End - #126
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Rater202's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Where I am

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    And, pray tell, just what could Hilgya possibly have done to justify being forcibly married off? I mean, without getting into the inane and absurd "She musta dun sumthin!1!" line of thought I somehow had to face in these very threads. What? What warrants being forcibly married off to a turnip at crossbow point?

    Give me one example of thing that might justify marrying Hilgya off that doesn't qualify as "I pulled this from a very special region of my anatomy". Even one.
    Perhaps she did something that caused her family to become heavily indebted to Ivan's but Ivan's family agreed to forgive the debt if one of Hilgya's family's daughter's would be married off to one of the sons of Ivan's family and Hilgya was cosen because it was her debt?

    It's just as plausible based on our knowledge(Literally nothing) on her family's reasoning for marrying her off as them doing it for poops and giggles.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  7. - Top - End - #127
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Perhaps she did something that caused her family to become heavily indebted to Ivan's but Ivan's family agreed to forgive the debt if one of Hilgya's family's daughter's would be married off to one of the sons of Ivan's family and Hilgya was cosen because it was her debt?

    It's just as plausible based on our knowledge(Literally nothing) on her family's reasoning for marrying her off as them doing it for poops and giggles.
    I would suggest it is significantly more plausible, since people almost never do anything just for its own sake.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #128
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Ah, so it only matters if it affects Hilgya. Gotcha.

    Also, attempted murder is a crime. She attempted to murder Ivan. She committed a crime.
    After being forcibly married doesn't count, now, does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I would suggest it is significantly more plausible, since people almost never do anything just for its own sake.
    Still unlikely. The likeliest scenario was a money-for-social-standing exchange, as people pointed out.

    Well, they can't do that. It's wrong. And we know it's wrong because the universe rewarded it by making them penniless.
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2018-04-07 at 10:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  9. - Top - End - #129
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Problem is, if she had committed a crime, she could be jailed for it. And we'd not be having this conversation. And if she didn't commit a crime, then marrying her off at crossbow point is an absolutely evil and unforgivable act that rightly resulted in the clan losing all it had.
    The clan was wrong to do what it did. Nobody's arguing it wasn't. But suggesting the act was totally spontaneous ("hey, you know that Hylgia chick? Yeah, screw her!") is a pretty outlandish claim; it's not unlikely she did something detrimental to them, whether she was justified in doing so or not (this all being before the arranged marriage thing, see). And even afterwards, if they turned around, massed up a sum of gold somehow and hired someone to assassinate Hylgia afterward, by the logic you presented, it'd be A-Okay for them to do so, since Hylgia put them into destitution and ruined several lives in doing so.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  10. - Top - End - #130
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    After being forcibly married doesn't count, now, does it?
    ....yes? You seem to think that one injustice means all crimes committed afterwards are no longer crimes, because..... chaotic neutral? Far be it from me to associate whatever you're using with logic, but I'm not following.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  11. - Top - End - #131
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Rater202's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Where I am

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Still unlikely. The likeliest scenario was a money-for-social-standing exchange, as people pointed out.
    Irrelevant. You asked for one example that was more plausible than them pulling it out their behind. Dismissing a reason where it's ultimately on her becuase it's less likely than one where it's slefishness on the part of her family is moving the Goal Posts.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  12. - Top - End - #132
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Sure. And they can take it up with the hostage-taker. And maybe with his entire family. Tree of evil, y'know.
    I think you mean Hilgya can take it up with the hostage takers. And everyone she hurts because of her marriage, I suppose. And everyone those people hurt because of what Hilgya did to them, and so on and so forth.

  13. - Top - End - #133
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ....yes? You seem to think that one injustice means all crimes committed afterwards are no longer crimes, because..... chaotic neutral? Far be it from me to associate whatever you're using with logic, but I'm not following.
    Right now I'm using chicken with five-spices and sweet paprika plus rice with some pickled veggies.

    What I'm saying is:

    1- No crime would warrant forced marriage.
    2- What she did with Ivan she did under duress.

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    I think you mean Hilgya can take it up with the hostage takers. And everyone she hurts because of her marriage, I suppose. And everyone those people hurt because of what Hilgya did to them, and so on and so forth.
    Well, she already took it up with the clans. But she can take it up with said hostage taker, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Irrelevant. You asked for one example that was more plausible than them pulling it out their behind. Dismissing a reason where it's ultimately on her becuase it's less likely than one where it's slefishness on the part of her family is moving the Goal Posts.
    Fair enough.
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2018-04-07 at 10:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  14. - Top - End - #134
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    It is if she wants back in. The clans are in the wrong here.
    Again, you believe in individual rights for Hilgya but collective responsibility for everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, they did marry her against her will for ***** and giggles. Why else would anyone oppress someone? Or, rather, it doesn't matter why they did it, doing so makes them oppressors and all oppressors forfeit their right both to life and to everything they love.

    As for the oppressed, they gain the right to do to oppressors as they see fit and to do whatever they see fit to escape an oppression.
    And again, your definition of "oppression" and "oppressor" is so broad and vague that you are essentially Calvin in this strip.

  15. - Top - End - #135
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    1- No crime would warrant forced marriage.
    2- What she did with Ivan she did under duress.
    No crime would warrant havign all firstborn children killed. What the clan members did, they did under duress.

    Sounds like one helluva double standard. One set of rules for Hilgya, another set for everyone else.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  16. - Top - End - #136
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No crime would warrant havign all firstborn children killed. What the clan members did, they did under duress.

    Sounds like one helluva double standard. One set of rules for Hilgya, another set for everyone else.
    Well, if they wanted my sympathy, they shouldn't have married Hilgya off by force.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  17. - Top - End - #137
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Right now I'm using chicken with five-spices and sweet paprika plus rice with some pickled veggies.
    That... sounds pretty good, actually.

    What I'm saying is:

    1- No crime would warrant forced marriage.
    2- What she did with Ivan she did under duress.
    She was in no immediate danger, nor was there a threat to her health in the long term other than possible annoyance on account of Ivan. That's... hardly duress.

    Besides, typically when people justify something as being done "under duress", they mean that there isn't time to consider the action at hand (such as in self-defense in a physical altercation) or that there was not a better option available in the long term (there was: just pack up and leave). This doesn't fit in any regard.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  18. - Top - End - #138
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, she already took it up with the clans. But she can take it up with said hostage taker, yes.
    Do the clans get to take it up with Hilgya? Because in this hypothetical the chain of evil is now Hostage Taker->Clans->Hilgya->Clan

    If Hilgya can take revenge on her clan and ignore the guy that put them under duress and not be in the wrong because she was under duress, then surely the clans can do something to Hilgya now (now under duress from Hilgya) and that has the bonus of not even adding another person to the chain! It just repeats on and on forever, the cycle of revenge will never be broken until someone who doesn't want to pay it forward or is unable to is the victim.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2018-04-07 at 10:14 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #139
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, if they wanted my sympathy, they shouldn't have married Hilgya off by force.
    Hilgya can take that up with Bob the Dwarf. If Hilgya wanted sympathy, she shouldn't have tried to murder Ivan or bankrupt the clans.

    Oh, look, a double standard.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  20. - Top - End - #140
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Do the clans get to take it up with Hilgya? Because in this hypothetical the chain of evil is now Hostage Taker->Clans->Hilgya->Clan

    If Hilgya can take revenge on her clan and ignore the guy that put them under duress and not be in the wrong because she was under duress, then surely the clans can do something to Hilgya now (now under duress from Hilgya) and that has the bonus of not even adding another person to the chain! It just repeats on and on forever, the cycle of revenge will never be broken until someone who doesn't want to pay it forward or is unable to is the victim.
    EXACTLY. Thank you.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  21. - Top - End - #141
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Do the clans get to take it up with Hilgya? Because in this hypothetical the chain of evil is now Hostage Taker->Clans->Hilgya->Clan

    If Hilgya can take revenge on her clan and ignore the guy that put them under duress and not be in the wrong because she was under duress, then surely the clans can do something to Hilgya now (now under duress from Hilgya) and that has the bonus of not even adding another person to the chain! It just repeats on and on forever, the cycle of revenge will never be broken until someone who doesn't want to pay it forward or is unable to is the victim.
    More like the clans have to do something to the hostage taker now.

    Poop rolls downhill. It's our duty to make sure it rolls uphill instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  22. - Top - End - #142
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    More like the clans have to do something to the hostage taker now.

    Poop rolls downhill. It's our duty to make sure it rolls uphill instead.
    So, then Hylgia gets to hurt the clan... by robbing them of their ability to hurt the hostage-taker, or anyone else.

    I see a bit of a divot in your hill.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  23. - Top - End - #143
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    So, then Hylgia gets to hurt the clan... by robbing them of their ability to hurt the hostage-taker, or anyone else.

    I see a bit of a divot in your hill.
    Well, they can figure something out. I mean, despite a strong family resemblance, she is not their mother, you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  24. - Top - End - #144
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    More like the clans have to do something to the hostage taker now.

    Poop rolls downhill. It's our duty to make sure it rolls uphill instead.
    Well it's nice to see your moral system has a way for the blameless harm to eventually end. I still take issue with the idea that Hilgya taking revenge on someone other than those who wronged her would have been not her fault, and the idea that disproportionate revenge isn't a thing apparently, but other than that at least it finally makes sense.

    You just think revenge is a moral right. Am I correct?

  25. - Top - End - #145
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, they can figure something out. I mean, despite a strong family resemblance, she is not their mother, you know.
    But now Hylgia's hurt them, too, so there's no reason why they can't harm her under the worldview you've espoused; meanwhile, this hypothetical hostage-taker is now more likely to get off scot-free (or gods forbid, perform an encore act) because Hylgia and the clan are now going to be feuding. The worldview you're suggesting here allows for a lot more harm than it does justice.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  26. - Top - End - #146
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Well it's nice to see your moral system has a way for the blameless harm to eventually end. I still take issue with the idea that Hilgya taking revenge on someone other than those who wronged her would have been not her fault, and the idea that disproportionate revenge isn't a thing apparently, but other than that at least it finally makes sense.

    You just think revenge is a moral right. Am I correct?
    Yep.

    Well, in this case, said revenge helped her get out of that situation in the first place.

    And yes, if Ivan ever realizes she tried to poison him, he has the right to wreak revenge on her. Then again, he didn't really seem to mind the sandwiches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    But now Hylgia's hurt them, too, so there's no reason why they can't harm her under the worldview you've espoused; meanwhile, this hypothetical hostage-taker is now more likely to get off scot-free (or gods forbid, perform an encore act) because Hylgia and the clan are now going to be feuding. The worldview you're suggesting here allows for a lot more harm than it does justice.
    Well, they've already harmed her and, if they ever find out about her plan, they now know how that turns out. So how likely would they be to try it again?
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2018-04-07 at 10:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  27. - Top - End - #147
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Yep.

    Well, in this case, said revenge helped her get out of that situation in the first place.

    And yes, if Ivan ever realizes she tried to poison him, he has the right to wreak revenge on her. Then again, he didn't really seem to mind the sandwiches.
    Well, I disagree entirely, fundamentally, with the system you've put forward, but at least we've finally hammered out some consistency.

    I guess it's time to agree to disagree. The only alternative I can see is to keep shouting at each other that the other's system is flawed ad infinitum.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2018-04-07 at 10:33 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #148
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Well, I disagree entirely, fundamentally, with the system you've put forward, but at least we've finally hammered out some consistency.

    I guess it's time to agree to disagree.
    If I ever manage to wreak revenge on anyone, I'll let you know how it feels.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ironsmith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, they've already harmed her and, if they ever find out about her plan, they now know how that turns out. So how likely would they be to try it again?
    Pretty damn likely, actually, since she's just shown she's a huge threat to their well-being. What they're not likely to do is show mercy and leave open the possibility that she'll take revenge again. (Let's not forget that this is Hylgia's family; she had to get the kill-happy attitude from somewhere...)
    Last edited by Ironsmith; 2018-04-07 at 10:34 PM.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


    Here's to us.
    Who's like us?
    Damn few,
    and they're aaall dead.


    *gushes unintelligibly over our cat, Sunshine*

    [Nexus characters, grouped by setting:
    Ouroboros: here
    Maesda: here
    Others: here
    ]

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Hilgya Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral? (Or Lawful Good?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, they've already harmed her and, if they ever find out about her plan, they now know how that turns out. So how likely would they be to try it again?
    Pretty likely, and to try it better this time, doing even more harm in the process. Congratulations.

    This isn't a moral system, this is a game of Russian roulette where all the chambers are loaded.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •