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2018-04-30, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
The only difference between that and an automated LFD queue is lots of extra clicks and reading. I don't need to peruse a bunch of bios before I swipe right; I'm running a dungeon, not going on a date. This is precisely what I mean when I say they should design their automated system to defeat the jerks, rather than inflict a tedious manual system on everyone who isn't one.
I'm not against this loot model (Warframe uses it.) It does however run into the JC Penney Problem of being an objectively better system (craft exactly what you want) that feels worse (no big rush from a great random drop.) To use another analogy, your paycheck is a much more reliable income stream than gambling in a casino, yet many people would rather go to Vegas than to work if they had the choice. In Warframe it works because it ties into the monetization model so well - you're paying for free, so waiting on your gear to "cook" followed by taking it out of the oven feels like a free lunch. In WoW, having to run to the oven to bake all your drops would feel like a timewaster even if they came out instantly, and time is literally money here.
I'm okay with this too, except noticing that the group leader has done that would feel pretty bad for everyone else. Imagine if a single player game did that without telling you - well actually, you don't have to imagine it because several do. But in this case, whether making that button controlled by the party leader or making it automatic, the players would undoubtedly know it was there and the result, I think, wouldn't be pretty - even for groups that might need the help.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2018-04-30, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
To which my response is, why play a MMORPG at all? If all you want is action game with other players, how does WoW or any other offering compare favorably to Diablo 3, or for that matter, Skyrim or Dark Souls or something? If your teammates are just random pubtards that don't listen, take direction, or anything, how do they compare favorable to bots? I'm not down on simpler games, I like them alot, but I think you're you're just trying to make a multiplayer lootbash, you don't need all those MMO constructs at all.
I'm not against this loot model (Warframe uses it.) It does however run into the JC Penney Problem of being an objectively better system (craft exactly what you want) that feels worse (no big rush from a great random drop.)
To use another analogy, your paycheck is a much more reliable income stream than gambling in a casino, yet many people would rather go to Vegas than to work if they had the choice. In Warframe it works because it ties into the monetization model so well - you're paying for free, so waiting on your gear to "cook" followed by taking it out of the oven feels like a free lunch. In WoW, having to run to the oven to bake all your drops would feel like a timewaster even if they came out instantly, and time is literally money here.
I'm okay with this too, except noticing that the group leader has done that would feel pretty bad for everyone else. Imagine if a single player game did that without telling you - well actually, you don't have to imagine it because several do. But in this case, whether making that button controlled by the party leader or making it automatic, the players would undoubtedly know it was there and the result, I think, wouldn't be pretty - even for groups that might need the help.
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2018-04-30, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Let me clarify my position:
I hope WoW Classic is exactly like WoW was as of patch 1.11. I also hope it's successful enough (whatever that means to Blizzard) that they release one or more BC servers...which are, or arrive, at the rules of the game in patch 2.4.
That's it. I consider WoW modern beyond any possibility of salvaging, and thus for all of me they're welcome to change it in any way at all or none. If I was designing the precise game I wanted, it wouldn't look exactly like BC circa patch 2.4 (though the things I would change are not the things that modern-WoW players seem to point to to go, "SURELY you don't want THAT back?!"), but any changes made to it would not be chosen by me: they'd be chosen by WoW's current development team, the people who gradually turned the game into what's on live now, and if I wanted to play what they considered the "best" version of WoW I'd be doing so. If they resist all urges to "fix" things and follow the precise template the people who were working on WoW at the time used before, then they'll have brought back a fun game--at least, for those weirdos like me who still play twelve-year-old games. If they do that, I and the people here playing modern WoW can periodically remember briefly that the other version of WoW exists and shake our heads in synchronized disbelief that anyone would choose to play it.Last edited by Kish; 2018-04-30 at 08:33 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-04-30, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
@ Kish: I hear you. Hopefully enough of the classic server crowd want your specific version that that is what you get to play.
Well you could ask the exact same bolded question of games like Destiny and Warframe (and Anthem and Firefall and Em8er and...), and my answer would be the same to you there - the MMO format provides long-term progression/rewards, an evolving world/story - and yes, community (I'm not opposed to it, I just think it should be more tightly regulated than it is now.)
And I think I've said this to you multiple times in the past (including in other game threads - ohai, Overwatch!) but I just don't have the experiences with rampant "pubtards" that you seem to. But even if I did, my recommendation to the designers would be the same - give us tools to coordinate our assault that don't simply hand a megaphone to any jerk who wants to be toxic.
Oh, I know material rarity would still exist, I just don't think it's enough outside of Warframe's model. I could be wrong though, given that I have a sample size of one successful game that uses it. If there's a subscription-based game that relies primarily on crafted gear rather than drops, I'd love to see how they do it.
You're right that L4D's AI Director works well, but you're forgetting why that is. Remember, these are two completely different genres. WoW, like most RPGs, is meant to be empowering - the challenge should feel tough enough to be engaging but ultimately, the fun is in winning and feeling like a hero/badass. Left 4 Dead meanwhile is intended to be disempowering; your goal is mere survival and lurching from safe house to safe house by the skin of your teeth. Thus when the AI makes things easy in L4D, rather than getting bored, the players feel tense - it's the calm before the storm, and it means a tank or witch or boomer is probably right around the corner, thus they stay engaged. And when the AI makes things crushingly difficult, your job is to get everyone who is currently disabled by a superzombie on their feet (or leave them to die!) and haul ass to the next checkpoint. Lulls in a WoW instance meanwhile simply mean you have more of your cooldowns ready to go, not to mention being able to take a drink to refill your resource bar (for the classes that even need one) too. In short, L4D has a much, much wider band of difficulty to play with (both the peaks and the valleys) - and what creates valuable tension in one game, does nothing but destroy it in the other. Oh yeah, and lest we forget, all the L4D characters are identical in capability, while WoW classes have to play and feel different from one another.
Could they make some similar kind of automatic-difficulty-adjusting algorithm for WoW? Probably, but the level of tuning it would require to keep the peaks and valleys from getting too far out of whack (especially across every class and spec) would be nightmarish. Which is why Diablo and Mythic+ just hand it to the players (before they start the run.)Last edited by Psyren; 2018-04-30 at 10:33 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2018-05-01, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
No disrespect intended to those games, they aren't MMORPGs. They're basically 3d Diablo III. And if that's all you want, more power to you, but that's not WoW, or EQ, or any of a jillion other games trying to maintain the pretense of a complete world. If that's the ultimate fate of the genre, I'll survive, but it's not my preference.
And I think I've said this to you multiple times in the past (including in other game threads - ohai, Overwatch!) but I just don't have the experiences with rampant "pubtards" that you seem to. But even if I did, my recommendation to the designers would be the same - give us tools to coordinate our assault that don't simply hand a megaphone to any jerk who wants to be toxic.
Oh, I know material rarity would still exist, I just don't think it's enough outside of Warframe's model. I could be wrong though, given that I have a sample size of one successful game that uses it. If there's a subscription-based game that relies primarily on crafted gear rather than drops, I'd love to see how they do it.
You're right that L4D's AI Director works well, but you're forgetting why that is. Remember, these are two completely different genres. WoW, like most RPGs, is meant to be empowering - the challenge should feel tough enough to be engaging but ultimately, the fun is in winning and feeling like a hero/badass.
Left 4 Dead meanwhile is intended to be disempowering; your goal is mere survival and lurching from safe house to safe house by the skin of your teeth. Thus when the AI makes things easy in L4D, rather than getting bored, the players feel tense - it's the calm before the storm, and it means a tank or witch or boomer is probably right around the corner, thus they stay engaged. And when the AI makes things crushingly difficult, your job is to get everyone who is currently disabled by a superzombie on their feet (or leave them to die!) and haul ass to the next checkpoint. Lulls in a WoW instance meanwhile simply mean you have more of your cooldowns ready to go, not to mention being able to take a drink to refill your resource bar (for the classes that even need one) too. In short, L4D has a much, much wider band of difficulty to play with (both the peaks and the valleys) - and what creates valuable tension in one game, does nothing but destroy it in the other. Oh yeah, and lest we forget, all the L4D characters are identical in capability, while WoW classes have to play and feel different from one another.
Could they make some similar kind of automatic-difficulty-adjusting algorithm for WoW? Probably, but the level of tuning it would require to keep the peaks and valleys from getting too far out of whack (especially across every class and spec) would be nightmarish. Which is why Diablo and Mythic+ just hand it to the players (before they start the run.)[/QUOTE]
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2018-05-01, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Respectfully, I couldn't care less about No True Scotsman labeling. I care about the qualities I listed, which Diablo doesn't have.
Absolutely, but with voice (or any other freeform communication medium) comes a greater degree of responsibility for using it properly. Thus I believe it should be earned (or at least regulated) rather than given freely, and that the lower-difficulty content should be readily doable without it as a result. It should absolutely still be there for the high-level content (though if it isn't, folks will just alt-tab and use Discord etc anyway - but that too is "opt-in.")
*looks around at passing tumbleweed*
I mean, did it?
The problem is that style of play doesn't mesh with a game where you're supposed to be getting stronger over time. To repeat myself, the core experience of L4D is disempowerment, where even the calm moments fill you with dread. The first time you step into a WoW dungeon might be scary, but that's not sustainable by the 5th go, nor should it be in a power fantasy game.Last edited by Psyren; 2018-05-01 at 10:09 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2018-05-01, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Okay, what qualities are those, again, exactly? Because I'm not trying to make a semantic argument, the games you list all lack qualities that I like about MMORPGs: Namely, a deep crafting system, in-game reputations, mounts, cool unlockables, a world you can explore with depth, an inter-player economy, really, just a fully realized setting where you get engrossed, rather than a shared lobby in front of some instanced content.
Absolutely, but with voice (or any other freeform communication medium) comes a greater degree of responsibility for using it properly. Thus I believe it should be earned (or at least regulated) rather than given freely, and that the lower-difficulty content should be readily doable without it as a result. It should absolutely still be there for the high-level content (though if it isn't, folks will just alt-tab and use Discord etc anyway - but that too is "opt-in.")
*looks around at passing tumbleweed*
I mean, did it?
1) Bad core game engine. If you want to see what a dumpster-fire the City of Heroes in-game engine, with animations and herky-jerky combat feels like, download a copy of Star Trek Online and do some ground combat. It's the same engine, and it's kind of garbage. Laggy inputs, unhelpful targeting, rooting attack animation, just... ugh.
2) Content desert. City of Heroes gave you a really generous palette to craft your Hero, but the city itself was basically a bunch of outdoor zones that, while pretty to look at, really had nothing 'there' there. Scaling was good, but few of the NPCs were interactive, there were just a bunch of placeholder citizens, and the odd quest giver. Your typical mission was carried out by opening a door, then being transported into an instanced, procedurally-generated map with random NPC villains. The one bright spot was the city had a sprawling sewer system and some unique zones, but for the most part, lots of generic-feeling maps with generic-feeling villains, especially early on. Things got better later on, but WoW definitely wins out in the 'first 20 levels feel unique and interesting' front, at least back in 2004.
3) Hideous bugs. Doors that don't work, crashes to desktop, falling out of the sky for no reason when flying, I could go on and on about the glitches in the game.
4) More Content desert. They also had problems adding new content. Your typical WoW expansion gets 3-4 raids per expansion, each with its own release of accompanying content. With Cryptic/NCSoft's slower cashflow, they could never keep up with that rate of content every few months. That's really what makes the MMORPG a winner-take-all market. You either captivate enough money to fund your content creation to keep your subscribers engaged, or you slowly crumble as bored players bog off to do something else. Now they did eventually ad player-created content, which is a genius idea, IMO, and I wish Blizzard would release tools or players to make their own stories in the world, but I don't think that will ever happen.
In spite of all that, CoH retains a high user-score on Metacritic, and I think that has a lot to do some of the features I've mentioned previously, and it still has devoted fans working to bring it back to this day. It's far from the best game ever made, but in an era festooned with super-thin ripoff titles like Sea of Thieves or No Man's Sky, CoH doesn't look that bad.
The problem is that style of play doesn't mesh with a game where you're supposed to be getting stronger over time. To repeat myself, the core experience of L4D is disempowerment, where even the calm moments fill you with dread. The first time you step into a WoW dungeon might be scary, but that's not sustainable by the 5th go, nor should it be in a power fantasy game.
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2018-05-01, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Well actually, Firefall and Warframe do have every quality you just listed (except for one in Warframe's case, namely the shared wide open world) in addition to mine. But my list was:
"Well you could ask the exact same bolded question of games like Destiny and Warframe (and Anthem and Firefall and Em8er and...), and my answer would be the same to you there - the MMO format provides long-term progression/rewards, an evolving world/story - and yes, community (I'm not opposed to it, I just think it should be more tightly regulated than it is now.)"
And as it happens, I like your list too - but more as "nice to have" than "integral to the experience." Stuff like mounts and rep grinds and cool unlockables are easy to add after the fact (see Guild Wars 2.) "Deep crafting" I can take or leave, it's largely busywork. All you really need for a player economy is to enable trading and they'll do the rest (see Warframe, which doesn't even have an AH.)
The latter I agree with wholeheartedly. It's the former I think would be tricky to implement in a way that feels good.
Oh, I'm not saying that CoH's definitely loot system led to its failure. I'm sure there were other (and possibly more pertinent) factors too. It just makes it more difficult to use that as an example proving it works.
It's not so much about "you can't lose" as it is redefining what winning and losing even mean. WoW is a power fantasy, and so "winning" means crushing bosses and (full-)clearing trash like the badass you are. In L4D meanwhile, winning just means survival, and trying to eradicate the hordes completely is a great way to end up with your brains spread on a zombie's ritz cracker. The AI director works because it was designed with that in mind, and so it is capable of recognizing that anyone standing around trying to feel powerful and rack up their zombie body count probably needs a wake-up call so they can start fleeing for their lives again.
Throwing that into WoW would only ruin the fantasy it's trying to deliver on. In WoW, we're the special agents sent in to quell the Stockade riot, or bring Van Cleef to justice by the sword, or shut down a cult operation. There are specific dungeons where running for our lives is fun (Halls of Reflection final boss) but those should be the exception, not the rule.Last edited by Psyren; 2018-05-01 at 04:20 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2018-05-16, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
A bunch of previews of pages from the upcoming book came up on Amazon. needless to say, spoilers ahead.
Spoiler: Spoilers
After the Legion was defeated, there was an effort by the Horde and Alliance to facilitate family reunions between Forsaken and human families members.
Needless to say, it didn't entirely work out. There were some success but mostly rejections. Genn was agains the whole thing, funnily enough, even going so far as to try and bully people into rejecting the idea. However, in the epilogue, he apologies to Anduin, saying he might have been wrong about the forsaken - maybe he is finally realising how much in common his worgen have with the forsaken, given they both have similar origin stories - both turned into mindless killing machines against their wills, only to regain control and mostly return to their old personalities.
Now it is what else going on that is the big stuff.
Calia makes a return. Urged on by the Naaru, and with the backing of Anduin, she makes plans with the Desolace Council to stage a coup to overthrow Sylvanas and take the throne of Lordaeron as Queen.
Sylvanas gets word of it. Sylvanas is not happy. The threat is ended with everyone involved, including Calia, dead.
However, she does not attack the Alliance. Even Genn gives her props for the way she managed it. She destroyed the traitors and made herself look like a hero for the rest of the Horde by not retaliating against the Alliance like she had ever right to do so. She was the wronged party after all.
This all takes place before the burning of Tedrassil, though, and nothing yet shows how that happened.
Anduin, meanwhile, is feeling terribly guilty. He promised the Desolace Council that he would protect them and failed. He also got Calia killed. Between him, Faol and the Naaru, they bring her back.
In a manner of speaking. She is no longer alive. She is a Holy undead.
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2018-05-18, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
So just resubbed on a whim, grinding Argussian rep for dem VElfs. Not sure what to use my boost on, thinking either Rogue or Mage. Anyone know how they're looking in BfA?
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2018-05-18, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
If I'm going to play again (still uncertain), it's probably going to be a Highmountain Tauren Protection Warrior
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2018-05-18, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Mage stays the same as in Legion. Frost is proc heavy, Fire is the methodical spec with the double procs and instant pyroblasts (and insane burst, no dot management anymore tho) and Arcane is the interplay of Conversation and Burn Phases.
As for rogue, I don't really know. They cut down on rogue "game cheats" in BfA. you can't cloak as many mechanics anymore, but PvE will stay similar as in Legion, with the exception that they plan that you can opt out of RNG talents (such as Roll the Bones).
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2018-05-25, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
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2018-05-25, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
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2018-05-25, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
what is probably the slowest, most methodical (which aren't quite the same as predictable) DPS spec?
Asking as a tank that's used to focus on timing taunts and nailing the AM's at the right times
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2018-05-25, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Really, I'd advise using Fire Mage. Relatively straightforward, easy to understand mechanic, built around maintaining your hot streak. That said, even more I'd recommend just doing whatever DPS spec goes with your tank, unless you have a surfeit of spare time to itemize two characters.
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2018-05-25, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
I dunno, as a control freak, I like the idea of being able to go berserk with a little more precision. Not that having some unpredictability to the spec is a bad thing but having enrage be moved towards being a result of massacre rather than mostly being a random proc is a good thing, IMO.
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2018-05-25, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
The problem with going offspec, is kinda that I can't help but think "I'd might as well tank since the character can do that at least as well, probably better"
I've tried playing all Tank classes (bar monk for some odd reason) at (then-current) max level, and even when I started the character with the intention of going another spec (whether that be DPS or Heal), i keep defaulting into playing Tank since that is so intuitive for me
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2018-05-25, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
The problem I have is that it still really doesn't deliver controlability, in point of fact, it only mediates the burst with bloodthirst crits or colossus smash resets. The RNG factor is still there, they've just stacked more of the burst into the trigger effect than back in the early days of Warrior. If you played Arms or Fury, you didn't NEED to be in your burst window to do respectable execution. As they are now, everything is 'fish for procs to actually do damage', whether the 'actual damage' is from Enrage/Raging Blow or Colossus Smash doesn't matter too much. Still just as RNG dependent as before, really, just less spiky.
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2018-05-26, 03:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Rogue has good toolkits to help the group, such as:
Tools of the Trade: redirecting aggro to the tank
Evasion: 100% dodge for 10 seconds means you can even offtank add waves.
Feint: half damage from AoEs.
Cloak of Shadows: removes debuffs, makes you immune to them for 5s.
Crippling Poison: 50% slow for adds.
Crimson Vial recovers 30% of your health for 30 energy, leeching poison gives additional healing, cheat death makes you immune to death!
additionally you are quicker than everyone (15% base speed increase, Sprint, Shadow Step)
If you play smart, you are still never the tank but the tank's BEST FRIEND! Plus you know how fights go sometimes. If you can soak some puddles better, plus I find Assassination quite methodical and ... well subtle.
But as a pure DPS you are somewhat expected to roll the damage spec that let's you perform the best.
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2018-05-31, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Spoiler: Battle for Azeroth
So the new resident Old God we'll be pitted against is G'hun, the Blood God.
Brace yourself for the tidal wave of Warhammer 40K memes incoming.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2018-05-31, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Thinking about a main for BfA. I kind of agree with Kelani here.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81Vl5W2R8o
Warlock is quite varied. DH is mobile and incredibly fun. Paladin is a good overall package. My main will probably picked between DH and Paladin. Depending on whether or not I want to heal (tanking will be for dungeons and mythics only, no raid tanking).
What are your experiences with the live Holy Paladin (and the BFA one if you have beta access)?
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2018-05-31, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Spoiler: Battle for AzerothBloody-Handed Khaine is canonical in the Warhammer fantasy setting as well. Blizz has a well-established history of borrowing from the Games Workshop settings. I'm never ever worried about the Warcraft fluff. Mists of Pandaria didn't bother me, Warlords bothered me a bit, only because it felt like a rerun cop-out. What I'm mainly interested in seeing out of WoW is (short of a WoW II) is taut gameplay and fun content.
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2018-05-31, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
I haven't touched WoW since I did my free-tour of late-stage Legion, and got bored stupid with the intro-quests and broken shore quest zones, and noped right back out again. If I describe to buy and re-sub, it will be to play Marksman Hunter and Arms warrior, exclusively, which always winds up being a questionable gig, because being a DPS-only player turns you into a second-class citizen in the WoW community. However, I've grown tired of moderating my fun to service other players' itemization goals.
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2018-06-08, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
I look forward to seeing what the Classic server has to offer. They made some major mistakes IMO on designs after BC which I would like to see returned to the old system. Skill trees returning to the 3 tree mix and match is a big one for me. I liked the options it presented. I also want a return to the old Hunter Pet system where a hunter could go out and find rare pets and actually get bonuses for having them as well as having fairly unique pets from the casual hunters who didn't put time and effort into finding cool pets. So I guess we will see. At Blizzard speed we probably have another year to go anyway.
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2018-06-09, 05:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
While i understand where you're coming from in terms of skill trees, and felt that they to some extent threw the baby out with the bathwater, I have to acknowledge that in practice it was solely a question if you knew what you were doing or not, since the number of usable builds within the skill trees was vastly lower than you'd think, and a lot of trap options that non-hardcore players wouldn't be able to spot unless they followed a guide (in which case the argument of 'choice' is moot)
I personally feel that they've gotten closer to a happy medium where it's simple, but you still have the ability to modify your build to taste, with Legion and BFA where the talent choices are real choices, but still mainly comes down to how you prefer to tailor your spec, rather than there being 1 true way and anyone who aren't following that are scrubs that doesn't deserve the game
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2018-06-09, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-06-09, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-06-09, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
What's WotL?
(Oh, Wrath of the Lich, monarchy deleted?)
If you would put modern WoW above "a dead badger" in levels of smelliness, I'd say that's a "yes" to my question.
Just to be clear: Your memories of pre-wotl WoW are completely unlike mine. People experimented with talent trees a lot. Taking the top-tier talent in any of them was optional; for every tree there were a lot of people who did, and for nearly every tree there were a lot of people who didn't. Only the tiny minority (one of the developers estimated 2% in an interview) of players who viewed the game as All About getting to the end of Naxxramas or Sunwell Plateau cared about guides that said "This talent gets you two percent more dee pee ess than that one, so that one is an abomination unto our (web)site!" 'Course, that group also made it clear that they thought they were the only people actually playing the game, and somewhere between wotl and Cataclysm Blizzard started a push to turn that into reality for some reason I will never understand.Last edited by Kish; 2018-06-09 at 08:29 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-06-09, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread
I don't remember what I did for my main Hunter in those days but my rogue dabbled in two of the trees, stealth and something else and I really liked the combo I had picked out. I wasn't a PVP or hardcore raider either though. I just liked exploring things and picking up rare pets and minions. I don't want to know how many hours I spent endlessly shooting up dragon whelps/centaur-things in the various places trying to get the whelping pet. The blue one was the longest if I remember right.