WoW XX: It's Not A Recolor, It's An Original Thread

[Psyren]

But I'd have to say I prefer it to Wildstar. I prefer it to Star Trek Online. I prefer it to SW:TOR. I can't say I've tried Guild Wars 2 or FFXIV or Eve Online, but those games never had any aesthetics which grabbed me to begin with. So it has the benefit of being a high-production value, high quality MMO with an aesthetic that I still find appealing. Final Fantasy looks like the characters fell out of Japanese YA manga, GW2 couldn't look more bland and uninspired if they hired a team of experts from Initech to replace their art department.

GW2 is my favorite one right now (by contrast, I find the aesthetic gorgeous, and the lack of sub means I can drop it to play something else and pick it back up whenever without feeling obligated), but I'm about to give ESO a college try too. (It wasn't on your list, so I don't know whether you've tried it.)

I'm not sure it's a useful question to ask, though. I'm sure you could ask a thousand WoW fans what needs to change about the game to make it better, and you might get a thousand different answers.

Indeed.

I want to know what happens inside a black hole ... doesn't make it certain that I'm going to like the answer (or that the answer even is something I consider a answer)

Ha!

What's the consensus on class/spec balance these days? Especially at lower levels, are there any that lag behind or are noticably OP? What are the biggest changes to watch out for if we're not playing end-game content?

"Biggest change" depends on when you stopped playing. If it was Cata or before, Talents would probably be the biggest. If it was Pandaria, drastically differentiating the classes and specs would probably qualify. If it was WoD... sucking less?

[Resileaf]

My current favorite MMO is actually Final Fantasy 14 atm. Although I wish you could see how much HP a given creature has rather than just a life bar... Seems like MMOs just don't show numbers anymore. Wonder why.

[sonofzeal]

"Biggest change" depends on when you stopped playing. If it was Cata or before, Talents would probably be the biggest. If it was Pandaria, drastically differentiating the classes and specs would probably qualify. If it was WoD... sucking less?

I stopped around the time WoD was coming out, I think. The big thing I've been noticing is that monsters auto-scale to your level now, in every zone we've been in lately. I'm reeeeally not sure how I feel about that.

Oh, one other important question - is there any power difference between the various possible Hunter pets? Like is which pet you have mostly just aesthetic? Or are there any in particular that a low-level Hunter should go tame ASAP?

[Resileaf]

I stopped around the time WoD was coming out, I think. The big thing I've been noticing is that monsters auto-scale to your level now, in every zone we've been in lately. I'm reeeeally not sure how I feel about that.

Oh, one other important question - is there any power difference between the various possible Hunter pets? Like is which pet you have mostly just aesthetic? Or are there any in particular that a low-level Hunter should go tame ASAP?

If you want a tanking pet, get a turtle of some kind. They have powerful damage reduction abilities that will help a lot against tougher monsters, especially rare spawns.
Just make sure to turn off growl in dungeons.

[Psyren]

I stopped around the time WoD was coming out, I think. The big thing I've been noticing is that monsters auto-scale to your level now, in every zone we've been in lately. I'm reeeeally not sure how I feel about that.

Right, I forgot about that. That was actually a BFA pre-patch addition, so even newer than Legion itself. I actually like it - from a leveling standpoint, there were far too many quests where no matter how interesting the storyline was, you would outlevel them too fast and completing them became pointless. This was especially egregious when a questline would extend between zones, and you would end up outleveling the entire next zone and thus leave the questline completely orphaned.

GW2 does something different - instead of scaling the monsters up, it scales you down - but the effect is basically the same.

[Resileaf]

Right, I forgot about that. That was actually a BFA pre-patch addition, so even newer than Legion itself. I actually like it - from a leveling standpoint, there were far too many quests where no matter how interesting the storyline was, you would outlevel them too fast and completing them became pointless. This was especially egregious when a questline would extend between zones, and you would end up outleveling the entire next zone and thus leave the questline completely orphaned.

It also helps with those quests where you need to weaken but not kill an enemy, but you're at a so high level that looking meanly at them would overkill them by the millions.

[The_Jackal]

You ask the questions you want to know the answers to, and I'll ask mine.

Fair enough.

Okay, my question is this:

What three changes would you make to modern WoW which you believe would improve the game and bridge the divide between the classic and modern enthusiasts?

I'm introducing my nephew to WoW.

He's pretty young, doesn't have experience in MMOs or even Action RPGs before, but he really seems to like it. So far he's gravitating to Hunters and Warlocks as his preferred classes (I've got a Mage, Hunter, Druid, and Monk, and my wife has a Rogue), but having not played regularly myself since before Warlords, there's a lot that's different.

What's the consensus on class/spec balance these days? Especially at lower levels, are there any that lag behind or are noticably OP? What are the biggest changes to watch out for if we're not playing end-game content?

Let him play what class appeals to his sense of aesthetics. Hunter is a great class for a young player, in my opinion. They're very solo friendly. Marksmanship is the king of endgame raiding, but I'd recommend he steer clear of anything but LFR until he's older, so I'm going to go out and recommend Beast Mastery.

The game is actually quite well-suited for a young player, where earlier revisions of the game definitely required more dedication and research. That's actually what we're arguing about right now.

GW2 is my favorite one right now (by contrast, I find the aesthetic gorgeous, and the lack of sub means I can drop it to play something else and pick it back up whenever without feeling obligated), but I'm about to give ESO a college try too. (It wasn't on your list, so I don't know whether you've tried it.)

I tried ESO in the beta, went through the intro arc, did some of the open-world content, and immediately got bored and annoyed. I didn't like the way they implemented combat mechanics, it just felt like WoW but a lot more sluggish and clunky. As for GW2, I suppose I should download and check it out, at least for science purposes, since it's free. Though, to be honest, I make F2P to be a drawback in the form, not a benefit. I'd just assume play a game where the developer gets paid to make the game fun, rather than just making overt grabs on your wallet in-game.

My current favorite MMO is actually Final Fantasy 14 atm. Although I wish you could see how much HP a given creature has rather than just a life bar... Seems like MMOs just don't show numbers anymore. Wonder why.

Because WoW is going through it's third stat squish, maybe?

I stopped around the time WoD was coming out, I think. The big thing I've been noticing is that monsters auto-scale to your level now, in every zone we've been in lately. I'm reeeeally not sure how I feel about that.

It's actually great. It means you can stick with a zone as long as the story holds out, instead of leaving quests half-finished because nothing gives you worthwhile XP anymore.

Oh, one other important question - is there any power difference between the various possible Hunter pets? Like is which pet you have mostly just aesthetic? Or are there any in particular that a low-level Hunter should go tame ASAP?

I would strongly advise going for what he likes the look of. There are pet mechanic differences, but few of them are important enough to warrant moving away from something you like.

[Resileaf]

Because WoW is going through it's third stat squish, maybe?

I don't think so. It still shows you your own stats. It didn't fall into WoW's power creep trap by just not raising the stats gear gives you by the thousands (yet). It's just enemy HP that doesn't show up. I've noticed GW2 didn't, I think Korean MMOs like Tera don't either, so it seems like something that newer MMOs just implement purposely. I imagine there's some kind of psychological reason for it. Maybe prevent someone from knowing at a glance if they can take a monster or not? It's easy to tell in WoW if you can kill something since you know how much damage you deal and how much HP the monster has. If you can't see the HP, you have to start attacking yourself to see how much damage you do and then decide if you need to haul ass or not.

[Psyren]

It also helps with those quests where you need to weaken but not kill an enemy, but you're at a so high level that looking meanly at them would overkill them by the millions.

Honestly, those are just poorly designed in general. They should make it so that if someone who has the quest is fighting that mob, that once they hit a certain damage threshold they become invulnerable and {thing you are supposed to do to them} automatically happens. When every system in the game encourages you to hit as hard as you can, forcing players to figure out arcane and unintuitive ways of pulling their punches is just dumb.

Fair enough.

Okay, my question is this:

What three changes would you make to modern WoW which you believe would improve the game and bridge the divide between the classic and modern enthusiasts?

Not directed at me, but I'm not sure one game can do both of those things. But if any studio can afford to run 2-3 MMOs at once, it's Blizzard. (Heck, they're about to run two right now.)

The game is actually quite well-suited for a young player, where earlier revisions of the game definitely required more dedication and research. That's actually what we're arguing about right now.

Not saying you're implying otherwise, but I'm still compelled to add - a game needing less research to play is great for older players too, especially those with families and full-time jobs and lives that don't have the time for a second vocation during their leisure hours. It is not just a consideration for youth.

I tried ESO in the beta, went through the intro arc, did some of the open-world content, and immediately got bored and annoyed. I didn't like the way they implemented combat mechanics, it just felt like WoW but a lot more sluggish and clunky. As for GW2, I suppose I should download and check it out, at least for science purposes, since it's free. Though, to be honest, I make F2P to be a drawback in the form, not a benefit. I'd just assume play a game where the developer gets paid to make the game fun, rather than just making overt grabs on your wallet in-game.

I can't speak to how it was in the beta, but my understanding is it has improved considerably. That's secondhand though, as I have yet to actually knuckle down and play it after my partner purchased my copy.

Because WoW is going through it's third stat squish, maybe?

And WoW shows numbers anyway. As does GW. IIRC most of the big ones do if you enable it.

[Resileaf]

Honestly, those are just poorly designed in general. They should make it so that if someone who has the quest is fighting that mob, that once they hit a certain damage threshold they become invulnerable and {thing you are supposed to do to them} automatically happens. When every system in the game encourages you to hit as hard as you can, forcing players to figure out arcane and unintuitive ways of pulling their punches is just dumb.

Well thankfully they don't do that anymore. Anything that needs to survive your hits will get down to 1 and then not receive any further damage. But there are a few Cata quests where it still happens, and probably some in MoP and WoD, but I can't remember much if there were any anymore.

[Kish]

What three changes would you make to modern WoW which you believe would improve the game and bridge the divide between the classic and modern enthusiasts?

If you're asking me specifically rather than everyone, I have no real answer, I'm afraid. I'm uncertain that there is such a thing as a modern enthusiast (that's what my question was aimed at), and no three changes would bring the game back to a state where I would want to play it...nor, honestly, would as many changes to gameplay as I wanted, as long as those changes couldn't include making it that the MoP "Varien's Alliance is about lawful good overdrive and the Horde occupies the moral low ground forever and ever" story thing never happened.

[sonofzeal]

Right, I forgot about that. That was actually a BFA pre-patch addition, so even newer than Legion itself. I actually like it - from a leveling standpoint, there were far too many quests where no matter how interesting the storyline was, you would outlevel them too fast and completing them became pointless. This was especially egregious when a questline would extend between zones, and you would end up outleveling the entire next zone and thus leave the questline completely orphaned.

GW2 does something different - instead of scaling the monsters up, it scales you down - but the effect is basically the same.

I get that... but it also removes the sensation of progress from the game. My lvl 15 Mage tromps off to babysit my nephew in lvl 5 quests, and dies when they aggro too many. The power curve seems to be more about spikes when you get a cool new ability or item, followed in a couple levels by troughs where you're now struggling against monsters that were easier before. It also makes it much more annoying to travel through previous zones, since you can't just blow things up if they aggro on you.

Mostly it's the lack of a sense of progress that bugs me. I remember getting to Outlands the first time in the middle of one of those scripted demon attacks and having a blast trying to "help" the defenders. It was pointless but cool. Equally cool was visiting again at lvl 80 and just laying waste to the attackers, butchering their forces in a one-sided curbstomp. Yeah you don't get anything for doing that, but it was fun. As was trying to sneak through a high level zone, or carving a bloody swathe through a low level one.

I get that the new system may be easier, giving you level-appropriate rewards and a manageable challenge wherever you are, but it's less fun.

[Kish]

Not to propose modern WoW should do anything specific, just providing information: EverQuest 2 has something called mentoring. You can right-click on another party member and reduce your effective level to theirs (your gear and skills become weaker, but you still have skills you wouldn't actually have, and you're still actually substantially more powerful than you were at that level), or talk to an NPC in one of the capital cities and pay five gold to be effectively locked at any level divisible by five below yours that you choose. Or you can blow through things way below your level if you choose, and you can advance quests that way, but you won't get XP or non-trivial loot for kills.

[The_Jackal]

Honestly, those are just poorly designed in general. They should make it so that if someone who has the quest is fighting that mob, that once they hit a certain damage threshold they become invulnerable and {thing you are supposed to do to them} automatically happens. When every system in the game encourages you to hit as hard as you can, forcing players to figure out arcane and unintuitive ways of pulling their punches is just dumb.

Agreed. When your mission design's principal challenge is fighting with the user-interface, you have failed as a game designer. That said, you can always score the nerf sword to help with those.

Not directed at me, but I'm not sure one game can do both of those things. But if any studio can afford to run 2-3 MMOs at once, it's Blizzard. (Heck, they're about to run two right now.)

It's directed at anyone. Even if you're happy with modern WoW, what would you do to make it better?

Not saying you're implying otherwise, but I'm still compelled to add - a game needing less research to play is great for older players too, especially those with families and full-time jobs and lives that don't have the time for a second vocation during their leisure hours. It is not just a consideration for youth.

I completely agree that non-intuitive game mechanics aren't desirable in general. One ought to be able to compromise between accessibility and depth in a game. I've never appreciated complexity for its own sake, it's the depth and freedom to customize that I'm after.

I can't speak to how it was in the beta, but my understanding is it has improved considerably. That's secondhand though, as I have yet to actually knuckle down and play it after my partner purchased my copy.

I doubt very much my misgivings about the game would have been addressed post-beta. I've ranted many times on this forum about the limitations and shortcomings of the 'combat via hash-table' mechanic which dominates the MMO market today. If I'm going to drop my sunk costs from WoW into another game, they have to bring something truly next-level, not just an iterative tweak, a button shuffle, and a palette swap. I'll take a flyer if the aesthetic catches my fancy (like I did with Wildstar), or if the IP resonates with me (SW:TOR), but the Elder Scrolls setting does neither of those things for me. If I were to take a person with no access to popular culture and put screenshots (minus the UI) of Aeon, Guild Wars, and ESO in front of them, I doubt they'd even be able to determine that they came from different games. Yawn.

And WoW shows numbers anyway. As does GW. IIRC most of the big ones do if you enable it.

Sure. My answer was half jest, half conjecture; nevertheless, there are plenty of gaming companies which are less than assiduous about being transparent about their game math. The very appropriately named 'Cryptic Studios' being a prime example.

If you're asking me specifically rather than everyone, I have no real answer, I'm afraid. I'm uncertain that there is such a thing as a modern enthusiast (that's what my question was aimed at), and no three changes would bring the game back to a state where I would want to play it...nor, honestly, would as many changes to gameplay as I wanted, as long as those changes couldn't include making it that the MoP "Varien's Alliance is about lawful good overdrive and the Horde occupies the moral low ground forever and ever" story thing never happened.

I am asking everyone, but you're included in everyone, but I wasn't necessarily concerned about story, more gameplay. And I'm not asking for a complete breakdown, just some thought-out talking points about what you want out of a Fantasy multiplayer game, and how to get it.

Not to propose modern WoW should do anything specific, just providing information: EverQuest 2 has something called mentoring. You can right-click on another party member and reduce your effective level to theirs (your gear and skills become weaker, but you still have skills you wouldn't actually have, and you're still actually substantially more powerful than you were at that level), or talk to an NPC in one of the capital cities and pay five gold to be effectively locked at any level divisible by five below yours that you choose. Or you can blow through things way below your level if you choose, and you can advance quests that way, but you won't get XP or non-trivial loot for kills.

Yes, I've often touted City of Heroes' sidekicking/mentoring system as a great example of how to promote replay of older content, uptake of new blood, better community, etc, far better than heirlooms or level scaling do currently. However, I do think level scaling provides the opportunity for more content to be interesting, even if it undercuts some of your power fantasy. I liked the way Destiny 2 handled it, actually. You simply reach a point where your excess power level doesn't increase your damage or resistance in any way, but they still let you have some of the other effects of improved gear, like higher stats, lower cooldowns on abilities, etc. Too bad the content in D2 is so shallow and repetitive.

[Psyren]

It's directed at anyone. Even if you're happy with modern WoW, what would you do to make it better?

Real combat/physics engine would be mine. They could leave nearly everything else the same.

(I really, really wish Firefall hadn't been mismanaged into the ground. Anthem or Em8er might deliver where it failed though.)

I completely agree that non-intuitive game mechanics aren't desirable in general. One ought to be able to compromise between accessibility and depth in a game. I've never appreciated complexity for its own sake, it's the depth and freedom to customize that I'm after.

You can indeed achieve both depth and accessibility in the same game. Consider an RPG franchise like Pokemon - a child can experience all the PvE content in those games, but hardcore players know quite well just how deep that rabbit hole can go.

I doubt very much my misgivings about the game would have been addressed post-beta. I've ranted many times on this forum about the limitations and shortcomings of the 'combat via hash-table' mechanic which dominates the MMO market today. If I'm going to drop my sunk costs from WoW into another game, they have to bring something truly next-level, not just an iterative tweak, a button shuffle, and a palette swap. I'll take a flyer if the aesthetic catches my fancy (like I did with Wildstar), or if the IP resonates with me (SW:TOR), but the Elder Scrolls setting does neither of those things for me. If I were to take a person with no access to popular culture and put screenshots (minus the UI) of Aeon, Guild Wars, and ESO in front of them, I doubt they'd even be able to determine that they came from different games. Yawn.

I can easily tell the aesthetics of those three apart myself. I don't mind WoW and Wildstar's cartoony aesthetic either, of course.

My current problem with ESO isn't the combat, it's how long you have to spend in noobville before you unlock the meatier stuff. Yet another place GW2 has the competition beat imo.

Yes, I've often touted City of Heroes' sidekicking/mentoring system as a great example of how to promote replay of older content, uptake of new blood, better community, etc, far better than heirlooms or level scaling do currently. However, I do think level scaling provides the opportunity for more content to be interesting, even if it undercuts some of your power fantasy. I liked the way Destiny 2 handled it, actually. You simply reach a point where your excess power level doesn't increase your damage or resistance in any way, but they still let you have some of the other effects of improved gear, like higher stats, lower cooldowns on abilities, etc. Too bad the content in D2 is so shallow and repetitive.

I actually think not increasing was one of Destiny 2's biggest flaws; it left you with nothing to work towards. When your gear stops improving and you're struggling with a Nightfall, the knowledge that no amount of grinding is going to help you with that struggle is a huge turnoff. Sure the endgame progression can be very slow, like how getting to 800+ Paragon in Diablo or max AP in WoW are very slow, but there's a palpable difference between slow and stopped.

[The_Jackal]

I actually think not increasing was one of Destiny 2's biggest flaws; it left you with nothing to work towards. When your gear stops improving and you're struggling with a Nightfall, the knowledge that no amount of grinding is going to help you with that struggle is a huge turnoff. Sure the endgame progression can be very slow, like how getting to 800+ Paragon in Diablo or max AP in WoW are very slow, but there's a palpable difference between slow and stopped.

Oh, I thoroughly agree. When I talk about how Destiny 2's level scaling worked, I meant only that places like EDZ and Titan remained relevant after you had outleveled them. Level scaling mechanics and having endgame progression needn't be mutually exclusive. Ultimately, what killed Destiny 2 was a desperate content shortage. Only seven strikes, one raid, and incredibly repetitive outdoor areas, with lots and lots of samey public events. Really, they needed to make more different kinds of activities still be relevant to your guardian's continued progression, the way artifact power works in WoW, or how Paragon levels work in Diablo 3. Stuff like the story replay missions, lost sectors, etc. quickly became irrelevant to anything other than appearance farming, and some regular world-building would also not have killed them.

[The Glyphstone]

For the Classic server nutters, interesting behind-the-scenes blog post about how Blizzard is building them and what they're including.

[sonofzeal]

- Does WoW's new enemy-scaling continue indefinitely and in all zone? If I bring my lvl 82 Druid around to help my nephew, is everything going to be lvl 80-84 for me in every zone?

- Is there a big difference in power between Hunter pets, and is there anything worth tracking down and taming?

- Is there anything to be aware of, class balance wise? So far BM Hunter seems super strong so I'm glad he's gravitating there, but my Ele Shaman I had travelling with him is seriously struggling. The Arc Mage I have going with my wife seems way stronger than... any of her Rogue specs she's tried. Are we just missing something, and if not, how long until things start levelling out? Or is Ele Shaman always going to have awful DPS compared to a BM Hunter?

[Resileaf]

- Does WoW's new enemy-scaling continue indefinitely and in all zone? If I bring my lvl 82 Druid around to help my nephew, is everything going to be lvl 80-84 for me in every zone?

- Is there a big difference in power between Hunter pets, and is there anything worth tracking down and taming?

- Is there anything to be aware of, class balance wise? So far BM Hunter seems super strong so I'm glad he's gravitating there, but my Ele Shaman I had travelling with him is seriously struggling. The Arc Mage I have going with my wife seems way stronger than... any of her Rogue specs she's tried. Are we just missing something, and if not, how long until things start levelling out? Or is Ele Shaman always going to have awful DPS compared to a BM Hunter?

Scaling is dependant on the expansion. Classic will scale to 60. BC and Wrath will scale to 80. Cata and MoP will scale to 90. The other expansions remain at their current levels.

Pet damage is the same across pets, but what you have to look for in pets is their abilities. Some pets excel at being tanks with damage reduction, some pets have damage buffs that you can use to make them better damage dealers, and so on. If you're BM hunter, you can tame exotic pets, which do have better abilities/higher damage. Exotic pets are generally unique rare spawns, or stronger beasts than what you usually fight.

Classes with pets are generally much stronger than other classes during leveling because the addition of a second damage source is worth a lot when fighting stuff. Casters start off really strong, but generally fall off in damage quickly if they don't keep up with gear.

[Psyren]

Oh, I thoroughly agree. When I talk about how Destiny 2's level scaling worked, I meant only that places like EDZ and Titan remained relevant after you had outleveled them. Level scaling mechanics and having endgame progression needn't be mutually exclusive. Ultimately, what killed Destiny 2 was a desperate content shortage. Only seven strikes, one raid, and incredibly repetitive outdoor areas, with lots and lots of samey public events. Really, they needed to make more different kinds of activities still be relevant to your guardian's continued progression, the way artifact power works in WoW, or how Paragon levels work in Diablo 3. Stuff like the story replay missions, lost sectors, etc. quickly became irrelevant to anything other than appearance farming, and some regular world-building would also not have killed them.

Agreed - but even beyond the lack of content, there were still difficulty spikes, walls and cliffs gulfing off parts of it. So even with the lack of endgame things to do, there were still folks (not ashamed to put me and my friends on this list) that weren't able to see even all of that.

For the Classic server nutters, interesting behind-the-scenes blog post about how Blizzard is building them and what they're including.

Link

Other than the specific patch they're working from (1.12, so pre-BC) there is precious little gameplay detail though. Lots of nuts and bolts engineering crunch that I find pretty interesting however.

Classes with pets are generally much stronger than other classes during leveling because the addition of a second damage source is worth a lot when fighting stuff. Casters start off really strong, but generally fall off in damage quickly if they don't keep up with gear.

It also means a second target for enemies to focus on - this means you don't lose dps from getting interrupted, cc'ed, having to stop your rotation to pop survival cooldowns or run away entirely to patch yourself up.

[The_Jackal]

Agreed - but even beyond the lack of content, there were still difficulty spikes, walls and cliffs gulfing off parts of it. So even with the lack of endgame things to do, there were still folks (not ashamed to put me and my friends on this list) that weren't able to see even all of that.

I'm an old-school FPS gamer from way back, and had friends who were too, so I was able to get all of the raids done, in spite of them being riddled with far more annoying jump puzzles and cat herding problems than actually challenging gameplay. For example, the last boss of the first raid, Calus, was, for all intents and purposes, a targetting dummy fight, except for the phase where your teammates need to call out icons for the guys in the main room to trigger, based on the one not shown. Here's a pro-tip for every game designer: When the most difficult thing in your encounter is explaining your encounter to the people doing it, you have failed at producing fun.

Link

Other than the specific patch they're working from (1.12, so pre-BC) there is precious little gameplay detail though. Lots of nuts and bolts engineering crunch that I find pretty interesting however.

It also means a second target for enemies to focus on - this means you don't lose dps from getting interrupted, cc'ed, having to stop your rotation to pop survival cooldowns or run away entirely to patch yourself up.

Yes, I also enjoy the programmer talk, but it's mostly a story about how hard making Classic servers is, which is no surprise to me. Taking an outdated codebase and dataset and making them work with more modern tools, libraries, and hardware can be very challenging.

[Kish]

Link

Other than the specific patch they're working from (1.12, so pre-BC) there is precious little gameplay detail though.

Skill ranks, talents, no achievements, no transmog: not much in terms of detail, but all good so far.

[sonofzeal]

Few more quick questions


- do instances now scale with level too?

- What level do you think we should be before an incompetent BM-Hunter, a semi-competent Warrior, and a fairly competent Shaman can run Ragefire Chasm?

- Is there a way to toggle capes on and off?

- Is there a way to make the Skinning skill, when in a party.... NOT awful?

[Resileaf]

Few more quick questions


- do instances now scale with level too?

- What level do you think we should be before an incompetent BM-Hunter, a semi-competent Warrior, and a fairly competent Shaman can run Ragefire Chasm?

- Is there a way to toggle capes on and off?

- Is there a way to make the Skinning skill, when in a party.... NOT awful?

I don't think that instances scale themselves, but don't quote me, I might be wrong.

Run Ragefire chasm as soon as its available on dungeon finder. You won't have any issues.

I believe that capes can be toggled off with the transmog vendor.

No, there isn't, sadly. Skinning is always awful.

[Spore]

Few more quick questions


- do instances now scale with level too?

- What level do you think we should be before an incompetent BM-Hunter, a semi-competent Warrior, and a fairly competent Shaman can run Ragefire Chasm?

- Is there a way to toggle capes on and off?

- Is there a way to make the Skinning skill, when in a party.... NOT awful?

Yes. Vanilla scale from 15-60. After that I am unsure. BC and Wrath instances go from 58-80 but are two queues weirdly (slowing the times down if you are not a tank or healer). Not sure how the spread with Pandaria, Cata and Warlords is. Probably one after the other though.

As soon as you get access to the dungeon finder. Heck, I've run it with my Prot Paladin with a healer that maaaybe healed a third of what I did.

Yup, you can transmog the appearance "hide cape". I like it because capes always clip through every other item. Same with helmets. Not that I love the face of every one of my characters. But I hate these clipping issues.

Skinning is...a mix between positioning, using movement speed buffs and picking worgen. For some reason, gathering enchantments and Darkmoon Fire Water gets shut off in dungeons. On my hunter, I'll usually skin, then turn my back to the group, use Disengage and if available the running speed to catch back up. Gladly this is a non issue with my demon hunter (he is about twice as fast as other specs).

[The_Jackal]

do instances now scale with level too?

http://www.wowhead.com/dungeon-item-...irements-guide

What level do you think we should be before an incompetent BM-Hunter, a semi-competent Warrior, and a fairly competent Shaman can run Ragefire Chasm?

If you're using the queue, as soon as you're eligible. If you're trying to just do it as a trio, not til 60+, because scaling.

Is there a way to toggle capes on and off?

Transmog.

Is there a way to make the Skinning skill, when in a party.... NOT awful?

No. Skinning is the tradeskill you want if you LOVE grinding. You can make mad cash with it. Otherwise, stay away.

[sonofzeal]

Re:capes - "Transmog" isn't something I'm familiar with. I googled and found this, but now I'm just more confused.



Re:skinning - the problem I've been having is that I'm not allowed to skin something until everyone in the party has looted every item from it. This isn't that bad for instances, but in the overworld we {a} might not be that near eachother, and {b} might not all want to loot every common drop. I seem to remember that party leader could change how looking is handled, but it doesn't seem to let me any more.



Re:Ragefire - How many people of dubious competency do you expect it'll take to solo an instance like this? Is there anything we desperately need to know before subjecting some random strangers to our attempt?

[Spore]

Re:Ragefire - How many people of dubious competency do you expect it'll take to solo an instance like this? Is there anything we desperately need to know before subjecting some random strangers to our attempt?

A class that has enough self sustain can solo it. DPS is just to speed it up, a healer for emergencies and bigger packs. Honestly, WoW is a joke nowadays. Instances become a tad more difficult once you hit the mid-40s.

Re:capes - "Transmog" isn't something I'm familiar with. I googled and found this, but now I'm just more confused.

https://i.imgur.com/f5PRziw.jpg

[Resileaf]

Tranmogrifying is something that allows you to pick a piece of gear and make it look like another. You need to find vendors in capital cities (Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Dalaran (Legion version)) and pay them a fee to transform your gear into another one you prefer the look of. You can make helms, capes and shoulder armor pieces disappear like this.

[The_Jackal]

Tranmogrifying is something that allows you to pick a piece of gear and make it look like another. You need to find vendors in capital cities (Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Dalaran (Legion version)) and pay them a fee to transform your gear into another one you prefer the look of. You can make helms, capes and shoulder armor pieces disappear like this.

Just to be clear, disabling Cape, Helm, and Shoulder graphics are free, which I feel is an important distinction, in case hearing that it costs gold may put you off of doing it.

A class that has enough self sustain can solo it. DPS is just to speed it up, a healer for emergencies and bigger packs. Honestly, WoW is a joke nowadays. Instances become a tad more difficult once you hit the mid-40s.

This could certainly be true, I haven't tried any low level instances since level scaling has been implemented.

Re:skinning - the problem I've been having is that I'm not allowed to skin something until everyone in the party has looted every item from it. This isn't that bad for instances, but in the overworld we {a} might not be that near eachother, and {b} might not all want to loot every common drop. I seem to remember that party leader could change how looking is handled, but it doesn't seem to let me any more.

Yeah, it's personal loot only now. If you're teaming with your friends, however, I would let them know they're leaving behind free money by not looting stuff, and it all adds up. It's a pretty high tax to pay for not bothering to manage your bags. That said, yeah, you're gonna have people who can't be arsed to loot stuff, which makes skinning a screaming pain.

Re:Ragefire - How many people of dubious competency do you expect it'll take to solo an instance like this? Is there anything we desperately need to know before subjecting some random strangers to our attempt?

Wouldn't soloing imply that one is the only valid answer? ;)

In all seriousness, I'm not sure. Just out of curiosity, why? Just queue for it, the PUG train isn't that bad.