Vegetables grown in Antarctic greenhouse harvested for 1st time

[Poiuytrewq]

So Vegetables grown in Antarctic greenhouse harvested for 1st time and the scientists plan to use this tecnology in space, can't we just... I don't know feed the starving people in desertic and other arid landscapes?

[Keltest]

So Vegetables grown in Antarctic greenhouse harvested for 1st time and the scientists plan to use this tecnology in space, can't we just... I don't know feed the starving people in desertic and other arid landscapes?

Production of food has almost never been the limiting factor in ending world hunger. Its the logistics, like storage, transport and distribution which really get in the way. Setting up local production with this technology wouldn't really solve those issues, because it would itself need to be maintained. For example, plants need water. Arid deserts are generally not known for their abundance of water, which means it would need to come from somewhere else. So now you need to import and store water. Once you have the food there, you need to find and/or establish a governing body that will store and distribute this food, find people who are not themselves starving to staff this organization, etc...

These things aren't insurmountable, and there are plenty of organizations that make efforts at doing these things, charities and the like, but this isn't an easy task, and its basically a permanent resource sink with little to no returns besides knowing you did a good deed, so its difficult to muster up the resources to tackle these problems.

[Yora]

Growing plants in Antarctica is nothing but a publicity stunt. You can put a highly insulated greenhouse with artificial light anywhere. It's just really energy intensive and therefore expensive.

[Vinyadan]

Introducing technologies and knowledge in disadvantaged areas is really hard. You need peace, money, and experts. We probably could reliably produce food for everyone right now, if we had these at the right places.

[wumpus]

Introducing technologies and knowledge in disadvantaged areas is really hard. You need peace, money, and experts. We probably could reliably produce food for everyone right now, if we had these at the right places.

I strongly suspect that currently intentionally wasted food is more than sufficient to feed the planet's hungry people. Politics is the biggest issue, followed by logistics and transportation. Actual food production is a non-issue.

After the oceans die, protein production will throw a monkey wrench into current conditions, but I suspect that eventually eggs and dairy will sufficiently replace fish and seafood (and hopefully some protected areas will survive).

[Yora]

Actually, considering the energy needed to transport fresh food to Antarctica, setting up greenhouses there might possibly be somewhat efficient.

[Mando Knight]

I strongly suspect that currently intentionally wasted food is more than sufficient to feed the planet's hungry people. Politics is the biggest issue, followed by logistics and transportation. Actual food production is a non-issue.

I would flip those around: Logistics is the ugly giant hidden underneath the modern society it holds up, and politics is mainly an issue to food distribution when it tries to subvert logistical concerns. If we assume ideal conditions for one or the other of the two issues, perfect logistics would forcibly alter political stances while perfect politics can't escape the harsh reality of needing to organize the transportation of hundreds of billions of tons of foodstuffs across the world.

[Leewei]

So Vegetables grown in Antarctic greenhouse harvested for 1st time and the scientists plan to use this tecnology in space, can't we just... I don't know feed the starving people in desertic and other arid landscapes?

Famine is the result of neoliberal policy, war, and climate change. Technology greatly mitigates famine.

Money spent on research such as space and habitats in hostile environments tends to have very high returns. It creates new demand for skilled labor, drives down the cost of goods (including food), and stabilizes international politics through joint ventures (such as the ISS).

Greenhouse gas emissions currently come largely from transportation. Agricultural goods make up the largest category of these goods. Developing agricultural techniques that reduce the need for transportation positively impacts the climate. Increasing the availability of food will, in addition to directly feeding those who produce it, drive down costs for others who must acquire it.

[FreddyNoNose]

So Vegetables grown in Antarctic greenhouse harvested for 1st time and the scientists plan to use this tecnology in space, can't we just... I don't know feed the starving people in desertic and other arid landscapes?

I was in The United States Antarctic Research Program for 3.5 years and Wintered-over at McMurdo Station Antarctica (oct 82 - oct 83). Antarctica has been a place where they have been looking for deep space missions and performing tests. We had to go through lots of psych evals before and after wintering. Part of this was too look at how isolation works for long periods of time for use on long space missions like mars.

They have other things going on as well. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Rockphed]

I was in The United States Antarctic Research Program for 3.5 years and Wintered-over at McMurdo Station Antarctica (oct 82 - oct 83). Antarctica has been a place where they have been looking for deep space missions and performing tests. We had to go through lots of psych evals before and after wintering. Part of this was too look at how isolation works for long periods of time for use on long space missions like mars.

They have other things going on as well. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

I assume that Antarctic green-houses at least partially test how easily you could farm in a dome on Mars. You are probably also testing how sustainable the process is in terms of nutrient re-use and water. After a working greenhouse there is running, you can try it on the ISS (though I thought we already did that) and see if you can get fresh food in space without needing constant re-supply.

[Yora]

You really only need energy, water, carbon dioxide, and fertilizer to grow plants. If you have those, any other requirements can be taken care of with technological substitutes. Though I don't see any practical benefit of testing such a setup in Antarctica. You can set up a perfectly sealed test chamber anywhere.

[Peelee]

Also, it doesn't really help all that much in space. Imean, sure, it's better than nothing, but one of the big issues with growing stuff in orbit is that they're in a microgravity environment. You can't just put a saucer under the plant for drainage on the ISS, ya know? Gravity is hugely important.

[Yora]

Which it is for long term habitation and most industry as well. But that can be taken care of with centrifuges. I think plants would even be able to deal with much smaller cenntrifuges than humans because they don't rely on a sense of balance. They merely need to have an up and down. They can't get dizzy or seasick. (I assume. We'll probably know how they behave in such conditions eventually.)

[Blackhawk748]

You really only need energy, water, carbon dioxide, and fertilizer to grow plants. If you have those, any other requirements can be taken care of with technological substitutes. Though I don't see any practical benefit of testing such a setup in Antarctica. You can set up a perfectly sealed test chamber anywhere.

My guess would be to test how good the insulation really is. Yes you could just make an insulated chamber anywhere, but Antarctica is closer to mars than really anywhere else on this rock so it should help us notice any potential issues.

[Peelee]

Which it is for long term habitation and most industry as well. But that can be taken care of with centrifuges. I think plants would even be able to deal with much smaller cenntrifuges than humans because they don't rely on a sense of balance. They merely need to have an up and down. They can't get dizzy or seasick. (I assume. We'll probably know how they behave in such conditions eventually.)

Oops. Yeah, I meant gravity is hugely important for... well, virtually everything, turns out. Things we take for granted because of gravity just become way harder to do when it's in free-fall.

Also, it would suck if plants got dizzy. Not something I think they ever really had to worry about, for the most part, I'd think.

[Elanasaurus]

See, this is why I joined the Playground. Plants in space spinning round and round.

[Doorhandle]

You really only need energy, water, carbon dioxide, and fertilizer to grow plants. If you have those, any other requirements can be taken care of with technological substitutes. Though I don't see any practical benefit of testing such a setup in Antarctica. You can set up a perfectly sealed test chamber anywhere.

Perhaps we're looking too far into this. Maybe they just wanted fresh produce?

That said, the impressiveness of the achievement depend on whether or not they literally used antarctic soil. Aside from the fact it's buried under endless tons of ice, what little is there is probably very infertile.

[Peelee]

I was in The United States Antarctic Research Program for 3.5 years and Wintered-over at McMurdo Station Antarctica (oct 82 - oct 83). Antarctica has been a place where they have been looking for deep space missions and performing tests. We had to go through lots of psych evals before and after wintering. Part of this was too look at how isolation works for long periods of time for use on long space missions like mars.

They have other things going on as well. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Also, I somehow missed that comment, but that is awesome! How are we not better friends?

[Yora]

Perhaps we're looking too far into this. Maybe they just wanted fresh produce?

That said, the impressiveness of the achievement depend on whether or not they literally used antarctic soil. Aside from the fact it's buried under endless tons of ice, what little is there is probably very infertile.

As a professional gardener, I'm 99% sure they did use fertilizer as their sole source of nutrients. Plants don't need soil. Plants only need something to grab with their roots so they don't fall over and to have their roots in contact with nutrient containing water. In conventional commercial plant production, we don't use soil at all but instead use peat, specifically because it's virtually free of any nutrients and life. Having a dead and nutrient free substrate makes it much easier to optimize nutrient levels with fertilizer. Substrates based on earth and compost are only making a comeback now because the peat bio-degrades after one use and harvesting causes massive environmental destruction and it is a resource that regenerates so slowly that it's effectively non-renewable.
Alternative research goes into sealed facilities that have the plants grow in a completely inert foam that can be soaked in water with or without fertilizer whenever needed and getting artificial sunlight from LEDs. With no windows and filtered air, you have perfect temperature control and it's impossible for insects and seeds to come in, so you don't have to use any insecticides of herbicides. The chance to get fungus spores in is greatly reduced, limiting the use of fungicides. Growing plants in sealed basements is actually much more environmentally friendly than growing them outdoors once you get the ennergy cost for the artificial lighting down with solar and wind powered LEDs. And it's this kind of facility that is capable of growing food in space or on other planets.

And I very much suspect in Antarctica as well. I'd be very much surpriesed if antarctic soil is anything but barren sand and gravel. And it makes the whole consideration whether you can grow stuff in martian soil irrelevant. You will need to use fertilizer anyway.

[Doorhandle]

As a professional gardener, I'm 99% sure they did use fertilizer as their sole source of nutrients. Plants don't need soil. Plants only need something to grab with their roots so they don't fall over and to have their roots in contact with nutrient containing water. In conventional commercial plant production, we don't use soil at all but instead use peat, specifically because it's virtually free of any nutrients and life. Having a dead and nutrient free substrate makes it much easier to optimize nutrient levels with fertilizer. Substrates based on earth and compost are only making a comeback now because the peat bio-degrades after one use and harvesting causes massive environmental destruction and it is a resource that regenerates so slowly that it's effectively non-renewable.
Alternative research goes into sealed facilities that have the plants grow in a completely inert foam that can be soaked in water with or without fertilizer whenever needed and getting artificial sunlight from LEDs. With no windows and filtered air, you have perfect temperature control and it's impossible for insects and seeds to come in, so you don't have to use any insecticides of herbicides. The chance to get fungus spores in is greatly reduced, limiting the use of fungicides. Growing plants in sealed basements is actually much more environmentally friendly than growing them outdoors once you get the ennergy cost for the artificial lighting down with solar and wind powered LEDs. And it's this kind of facility that is capable of growing food in space or on other planets.

And I very much suspect in Antarctica as well. I'd be very much surpriesed if antarctic soil is anything but barren sand and gravel. And it makes the whole consideration whether you can grow stuff in martian soil irrelevant. You will need to use fertilizer anyway.

So in short: "It's still proof of concept, just not a proof of concept impressive in the way I wanted it to be impressive."

[Eldan]

You really only need energy, water, carbon dioxide, and fertilizer to grow plants. If you have those, any other requirements can be taken care of with technological substitutes. Though I don't see any practical benefit of testing such a setup in Antarctica. You can set up a perfectly sealed test chamber anywhere.

That's... sadly not entirely true. You also need a microbiome. Which is a bitch to replicate from scratch.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I was in The United States Antarctic Research Program for 3.5 years and Wintered-over at McMurdo Station Antarctica (oct 82 - oct 83). Antarctica has been a place where they have been looking for deep space missions and performing tests. We had to go through lots of psych evals before and after wintering. Part of this was too look at how isolation works for long periods of time for use on long space missions like mars.

They have other things going on as well. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

You were there the year after the Thing struck? Did you have like really strict protocols on visiting Norwegians?

(But really, the historic first annual antarctic viewing of the Thing-Shining double feature. History in the making. )

(Is that also how you lost your "Freddy no nose" nose, frostbite? )

[Jay R]

See, this is why I joined the Playground. Plants in space spinning round and round.

EPCOT once had a spinning drum for growing plants. The roots were on the outside, and nutrients were sprayed onto them. This was explicitly intended as a potential for growing in zero-g.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My guess would be to test how good the insulation really is. Yes you could just make an insulated chamber anywhere, but Antarctica is closer to mars than really anywhere else on this rock so it should help us notice any potential issues.

If they were planning on a Mars-like environment, they'd be in the McMurdo Dry Valleys.