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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
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    Nov 2017

    Default Please Critique this Bard College

    Hey all! This thread is a continuation from another where I messed up in the official 5e stuff. This one is now in the right spot (I think). Please Critique however you want.

    P. S. Mods, I'm sorry if I broke a rule or something, but I'm just trying to clean up my posts. Sorry!

    I present: Bard College of Midnight

    Bards of Midnight are a variety of bards that tend to stand back in fights, providing music to accompany their dancers in their endeavors. However, these dancers have a sinister twist: they are undead. The Bards of Midnight control heaps of shambling dead in performance, and in combat. They have learned wretched secrets which allow them to drain life energy, and reanimate the lifeless beings that they kill. Bards of Midnight are often shunned by others, seen as twisted and eerie, perverting the music and reputation of all Bards.

    Haunting Echoes: At 3rd level, you have begun to learn how to control the powers of death. When you reach this level, you learn a Necromancy Cantrip of your choice from any classes spell list. You also learn either the Inflict Wounds spell, or Ray of Sickness spell. These spells count as Bard spells for you, and don't count against the number of Bard spells you know. In addition, whenever you damage a creature with a Necromancy spell, you can expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration to deal extra damage equal to you Bardic Inspiration + your Charisma modifier, and you tether that creatures life force to your music. On each of your subsequent turns, you may use your bonus action to cause the target to make a Constitution saving throw. On a fail, they take the damage again. On a success, the effect ends.

    Dance of the Shambling Dead: Also at 3rd level, whenever you reduce a Humanoid to zero hit points with a Necromancy spell of First level or higher, or your Haunting Echoes feature, you can use your reaction to cause that creature to dance in an undead state. When you do this, that creature rises as a zombie with temporary hit points equal to half your Bard level + your Charisma modifier, under your command for 24 hours, after which, it crumples to the ground, dead. You can also cause it to die at any moment you choose (no action required). You can only have one of these zombies under your control at one time. Once you use this feature, you can't do so again until you complete a long rest.

    Thrilling Dance: At 6th level, your control over undeath has improved. You learn the Animate Dead spell. This doesn't count against the number of spells you know, and you can't forget or replace this spell. Additionally, you may use an action on your turn to begin a Thrilling Dance. While your Thrilling Dance is active, all undead under your command gain the following benefits:

    • They each gain temporary hit points equal to your Bard level + your charisma modifier. These hit points disappear after your Thrilling Dance ends.
    • They add your Charisma modifier to their attack and damage rolls.
    • They add your proficiency bonus to all saving throws they make.
    • They can take the dash, disengage, or dodge action as a bonus action on their turn.

    Your Thrilling dance lasts for one minute, or until your concentration is broken, as if you were concentrating on a spell. You then can't use this ability until you complete a short or long rest.

    Dance Beyond Death: At 14th level, you have become a master of directing the dead, and it's power has bled into you. Whenever you are reduced to zero hit points, you may use your reaction to destroy all undead under your command. All of your undead explode into Necrotic energy, dealing damage to all creatures adjacent to them, excluding you or your allies, equal to your Bardic Inspiration die + your Charisma modifier. A creature affected by this damage may make a Constitution saving throw equal to your spell save DC to take half damage on a successful save. You then regain hit points equal to the Necrotic damage dealt to each creature. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you complete a long rest.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    (Reposting from the other forum by request.)

    So I'm going to focus on the level 3 features, since they're the subclass-defining ones. As a general note, I'm going to follow Mike Mearls' lead and primarily compare to the PHB subclasses when designing/evaluating a new subclass, to avoid power creep or other feature drift from accumulating.

    I'm also not necessarily going to assume the player has access to non-PHB spells, although that's a little less strict since this is homebrew and isn't going to be published in an actual book.

    For a quick reference, here's basically what you get in the other colleges:

    Quote Originally Posted by Level 3 class features
    PHB Subclasses
    • Lore: skill prof, use BI to debuff enemy skill/attack/damage
    • Valor: combat prof, allies use BI to buff damage/AC


    XGtE Subclasses (don't want to balance around these, but can be useful reference)
    • Glamour: charm with performance OOC, use BI to buff HP + rearrange battlefield
    • Swords: combat prof + fighting style, use BI to buff own damage + util effect
    • Whispers: frighten an NPC OOC, use BI to buff own damage
    So, generally at level 3 you get some proficiencies or an out-of-combat ability, plus a new use for your BI. Often that use is flexible, with multiple possible effects, most of which apply to combat.

    Spoiler: Flavor
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Grear Bylls View Post
    Bard College of Midnight

    Bards of Midnight are a variety of bards that tend to stand back in fights, providing music to accompany their dancers in their endeavors. However, these dancers have a sinister twist: they are undead. The Bards of Midnight control heaps of shambling dead in performance, and in combat. They have learned wretched secrets which allow them to drain life energy, and reanimate the lifeless beings that they kill. Bards of Midnight are often shunned by others, seen as twisted and eerie, perverting the music and reputation of all Bards.


    So far, so good. The idea of using music to make even the dead dance is a solid thematic archetype. I like it.

    Spoiler: Old Haunting Echoes
    Show
    I wrote this up but never posted it before you gave the updated version of this feature, so I'm including it here in case it still offers any insight for you.

    Haunting Echoes: At 3rd level, you have begun to learn how to control the powers of death. When you reach this level, choose a Necromancy cantrip from any class list to learn. In addition, whenever you damage a creature with a Necromancy spell, you can expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration to tether that creatures life to your music. On each of your subsequent turns, you may use a bonus action on your turn, to have that creature make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a fail, it takes Necrotic damage equal to your Bardic Inspiration die + your Charisma modifier. This tether breaks after 1 minute, or until you damage another creature.
    So, this basically corresponds to the "new use for BI" feature, letting you deal a bit of damage. I get the thematic idea behind tying it to Necromancy, but I think this has a couple of problems.

    First off, let's be clear that "a Necromancy cantrip from any class list" can literally only mean Chill Touch (1d8 ranged spell attack) or, if you have Xanathar's, Toll the Dead (1d8 or 1d12 vs Wis save).

    This is also going to be the only damaging Necromancy spell you have access to for a good long while. The level 3 spell Bestow Curse is the only one on the Bard spell list, so anything else will have to come via Magical Secrets starting at 10th level.

    So I'm not a big fan of tying the tether condition to damage from a Necromancy spell, because Chill Touch just isn't iconic enough to become this big focus for a major class feature. It's not a defining feature like Eldritch Blast; it just happens to be the only Necromancy cantrip. Making it trigger off your own attacks would be more in line with the College of Swords/Whispers, and it would make it feel less like "College of Chill Touch".

    Next, there's something about the tether damage that feels weird to me, but I'm not sure what it is. It might be that generally ongoing damage effects work one of two ways: Either (A) the effect ends on a successful save, or (B) there's no save and the damage comes in the form of extra damage when the victim is hit. I'm not necessarily sure you should even be getting damage from this BI die anyway, given what the next ability is.


    Spoiler: New Haunting Echoes
    Show
    Haunting Echoes: At 3rd level, you have begun to learn how to control the powers of death. When you reach this level, you learn a Necromancy Cantrip of your choice from any classes spell list. You also learn either the Inflict Wounds spell, or Ray of Sickness spell. These spells count as Bard spells for you, and don't count against the number of Bard spells you know. In addition, whenever you damage a creature with a Necromancy spell, you can expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration to deal extra damage equal to you Bardic Inspiration + your Charisma modifier, and you tether that creatures life force to your music. On each of your subsequent turns, you may use your bonus action to cause the target to make a Constitution saving throw. On a fail, they take the damage again. On a success, the effect ends. This effect also ends after 1 minute, that creature dies, or you damage another creature.
    I like this better. Handing out some extra Necromancy spells solves the problem of there being almost no Necromancy spells on the Bard list, and lessens the reliance on Chill Touch.

    I still have two big concerns, though. The first is that this may still reward Chill Touch too much as the only resource-free way to trigger the tether condition. You'd have to do some playtesting to be sure.

    The second is raw power.

    The PHB Bard spell list has precisely one damaging cantrip: Vicious Mockery, which only does 1d4 damage and mostly just applies a debuff. For level 1 spells, they only have Dissonant Whispers and Thunderwave as damage-dealers.

    As a result, by giving 2 new spells known for free, this feature is roughly equivalent to "Additional Magical Secrets" with restrictions at level 3, in addition to everything else you're getting. I would argue that this is far too much power to pack into this feature.

    (Also, I see no reason to let you use your BI die to deal repeated damage, let alone adding your Charisma to that repeated damage.)


    Spoiler: Dance of the Shambling Dead
    Show
    Dance of the Shambling Dead: Also at 3rd level, whenever you reduce a Humanoid to zero hit points with a Necromancy spell of First level or higher, or your Haunting Echoes feature, you can use your reaction to cause that creature to dance in an undead state. When you do this, that creature rises as a zombie with temporary hit points equal to half your Bard level + your Charisma modifier, under your command for 24 hours, after which, it crumples to the ground, dead. You can also cause it to die at any moment you choose (no action required). You can only have one of these zombies under your control at one time. Once you use this feature, you can't do so again until you complete a long rest.
    I think you should drop the Necromancy spell rider here and just tie it to Haunting Echoes. In fact, drop the damage thing altogether—make it if an enemy drops while affected by Haunting Echoes, perhaps, and then you don't have the problem of other people "stealing your kills" and invalidating your class feature just because you didn't get the last hit in.

    (EDIT: Actually, I don't even want to tie this to Haunting Echoes at all. Just let it be an ability you can use 1/day on a fresh corpse, whether you've hit it or not. This also lets us avoid having to track/maintain who is affected by Haunting Echoes.)

    It's not clear to me what exactly "causing a creature to dance in an undead state" entails. It sounds like they're just normal CR 1/4 Zombies that can attack and everything (except with 0 HP and only a few THP), but I think that's too powerful. Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell! On the other hand, if it's more like a familiar (a level 1 spell) and can only use the Help action, that might be reasonable.


    3rd Level Ability Summary

    Right now, you get:

    • Extra ranged damage cantrip
    • Extra level 1 damage spell
    • Use BI to buff damage, plus Cha mod, repeating
    • (Effectively) "Animate Dead" 1/day


    Compared to Lore and Valor Bards, I think this is too much.

    I propose the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by My Proposal
    Haunting Echoes: At 3rd level, you gain the ability to infuse your attacks with the power of death itself.

    Whenever a creature fails a save against one of your spells and takes damage from that spell, you can expend one use of your Bardic Inspiration to deal Necrotic damage to that creature. The damage equals the number you roll on the Bardic Inspiration die. [This could be more interesting, but the key is I really want to keep the power from creeping up too much here.]

    Dance of the Shambling Dead: At 3rd level, you learned to weave music that makes even the dead dance.

    If you perform for at least one minute near a fresh corpse, you may cause that corpse to rise as an undead zombie (the DM has the creature's game statistics). This zombie has a maximum HP of 0 and temporary hit points equal to half your Bard level + your Charisma modifier. It cannot attack, but it can take other actions as normal. It acts under your command for 24 hours, after which, it crumples to the ground, dead. You can also cause it to die at any moment you choose (no action required). You can only have one of these zombies under your control at one time. Once you use this feature, you can't do so again until you complete a long rest.
    In short, you (A) use BI to buff damage on your damage spells that have saves , and (B) basically get a zombie familiar, which can't attack (but can use Help!) and only kicks in after the first battle of the day.

    Triggering damage off of damaging spells with saves helps to emphasize the spellcaster aspect, and it plays nicely with all of the Bard's existing damage spells, including the classic Vicious Mockery. I'm trying to keep the "necro-ish caster" flavor without exceeding the power budget by giving out free spells here. This may be a necromancer subclass, but you're still a bard, and most of your power comes from the core class features.

    I have some thoughts on the later levels, but I'll post this for now and come back to it.

    Spoiler: Sneak Preview
    Show
    Level 6: Learn Animate Dead, and your zombies from "Dance of the Shambling Dead" are now identical in all respects to the zombies from Animate Dead. This means they have full HP, they can attack, the whole thing.

    Basically I don't want you to have to track which zombies are which. This is functionally equivalent to "you learn Animate Dead and also have one free cast of Animate Dead per day". Since you're level 6 and Animate Dead is a 3rd-level spell, this feels about right. Maybe a tiny bit underpowered compared to Lore Bard's "Additional Magical Secrets".

    Level 14: Here is where Thrilling Dance belongs, IMO. This is the payoff, a supercharged army of zombies! I think this is a better subclass "capstone" than Dance Beyond Death.
    Last edited by Cynthaer; 2018-04-11 at 09:00 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    Thank you! These are all valid points, and I think they're great to bring up. Taking into consideration what you said, I've made some revisions, which I'll post below. I combined my ideas and your own for this part, as I like yours, but I feel I minor deviation might be good. Please help me to improve this for even more balance. Also added more flavor and idea sparking concepts.

    Bard College of Midnight: V3

    Bards of Midnight are a variety of bards that tend to stand back in fights, providing music to accompany their dancers in their endeavors. However, these dancers have a sinister twist: they are undead. Their melodies are so compelling, even the Dead rise to dance.
    The Bards of Midnight control heaps of shambling dead in performance, and in combat. They have learned wretched secrets which allow them to drain life energy, and reanimate the lifeless beings that they kill. Bards of Midnight are often shunned by others, seen as twisted and eerie, perverting the music and reputation of all Bards.
    Bards of Midnight come in all forms, from mariachis controlling their Dead in a deathly melody, voodoo magicians commanding them through tribal drums, or simply Michael Jackson leading them with the power of Thriller.

    Doomed Melody: At 3rd level, you begin to learn how to control The Fate of two creatures through music. As a bonus action on your turn, you may expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration to pluck the Strings of Fate. Choose a creature within 60ft of you. That creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw equal to your spell save DC. On a fail, it takes Necrotic damage equal to your Bardic Inspiration die. On a success, it takes half as much damage. This damage ignores resistance, and treats immunity as resistance.
    Another creature within 60ft of the target recovers hit points equal to half the damage you dealt.

    Dance Beyond the Grave: Also at 3rd level, you can begin to build your undead troupe of dancers. You can spend 1 minute performing near a corpse that died within the last 10 minutes, and cause it to rise as a Zombie under your control for 24 hours, after which, it dies. You can also cause it to die at any time (no action required).
    This Zombie has 1 hit point, but also has temporary hit points equal to half your Bard level + your Charisma modifier. It follows your commands to the best of it's ability (no action required). Once you use this feature, you can't do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
    The number of Zombies you can create increases when you reach certain levels in this class. 2 Zombies at level 5, 3 at level 10, and 4 at level 15.

    Deathly Performers: When you reach 6th level, your control of the Dead improves. You learn the Animate Dead spell. It counts as a Bard spell for you, but doesn't count against the number of Bard spells you know.

    Dance Beyond Death: Also at 6th level, the power of Undeath in your music makes your dancers stronger. All Undead under your command from your Dance Beyond the Grave feature count as if they had been created with the Animate Dead spell. However, they no longer gain the Temporary Hit Point bonus. You can also target a pile of bones, making a Skeleton. Lastly, the target could have died at any time.
    Additionally, the Undead under your command no longer require your bonus action to command as long as you use your Doomed Melody feature.

    Dance of the Shambling Dead: At 14th level, you are a master of directing the Dead. As an action, you may begin a Dance of the Shambling Dead. While your Dance of the Shambling Dead is active, all Undead under your command gain the following benefits:

    • They each gain temporary hit points equal to your Bard level + your charisma modifier. These hit points disappear after your Dance of the Shambling Dead ends.
    • They add your Charisma modifier to their attack and damage rolls.
    • They add your proficiency bonus to all saving throws they make.
    • They use your proficiency bonus instead of your own for their attack rolls.
    • Their attacks count as magical for the purpose of overcoming immunity and resistance.
    • They can take the dash, disengage, or dodge action as a bonus action on their turn.
    • When you cast a spell with the range of touch, one of your Undead can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. It must use it's reaction to do so. If the spell requires an attack roll, they use their modifier instead of yours.

    Your Dance of the Shambling Dead lasts for 1 minute, or until you end it as a bonus action. You can't use this ability again until you complete a short or long rest.
    Last edited by Grear Bylls; 2018-04-13 at 08:13 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    (EDIT: As before, this post may seem kind of rambly because I wrote it over the course of several days. I'm just going to post it as-is, since this is a creative discussion, not an argument, and I can't be arsed to rewrite it into a single cohesive point.)

    I like it!

    I'll admit, the whole "Bardic Inspiration as a standalone spell-like effect" thing is a little odd, but having it heal an ally instead of the Bard herself is certainly in keeping with the Bard's support role.

    Beyond that, I think you've almost surpassed my ability to offer useful critique and this is probably ready for playtest. The biggest thing is that I have no idea how to evaluate the power of animated minions, especially in terms of how they scale at higher levels.

    I guess I'd say try to get feedback from people with experience playing Death Clerics and Necromancer Wizards. My gut says that the 14th-level ability is probably too powerful—Necromancers give their minions extra HP and extra damage on a hit (both scaling with character level), and that's it.

    My understanding is that this is generally regarded as powerful enough, due to the massive effect on the party's action economy. I strongly suspect that you're giving them too many raw stat buffs, and the multiplying effect will be overwhelming. You could easily have a dozen or more skeletons out, each of which attacks like a level 14 Hexblade, is proficient in all saves, and has pseudo-Cunning Action.

    Before I continue, a quick summary of the other subclasses' level 14 features so we can refer back to it:

    • Lore: reactively use BI on own skill checks
    • Valor: bonus action attack after casting a spell
    • Glamour: permanently look cooler, once per short rest make self hard to attack for 1 min
    • Swords: can do a weaker flourish for free instead of spending BI
    • Whispers: once per long rest terrify someone OOC into helping you


    So that's a pretty wide variety of in-combat and out-of-combat effects. Personally, I think it feels wrong to have the Bard's undead be stronger than the Necromancer's. Surely the Necromancer should be the go-to class for straightforward necromancy, right?

    So what if we took the Bard in another direction? Something more "supporty" instead of "damagey", perhaps (you're a Bard, after all), or maybe something that highlights the fact that your undead—unlike any other undead!—actually dance!

    If it helps, here's my attempt at brainstorming level 14 abilities:

    • Improve minions' combat stats (don't like this one, it steps on the Necromancer's toes)
    • Command existing undead (can't use this, it's already the Necromancer's level 14 feature)
    • Make undead "dance" for some in-combat effect, probably a buff or debuff. People are going to want to yell "THRILLER!" when this kicks in, so IMO it should be a 1/day big effect rather than an at-will ability.
    • Make undead "dance" for an out-of-combat effect. It's less clear what this might be, especially since Glamour already has an OOC mass charm. I like the in-combat effect more.
    • Some other OOC effect, related to your theme but unrelated to your actual undead. Not sure there's much design space here, since "Necrodancer" is basically the subclass's entire theme.


    Out of these, the only one I really like is the in-combat effect. As for what that might be...well, I've been thinking about the Danse Macabre. The theme of works showing the Danse Macabre is that no matter who we are in life, everyone is united in death, depicted as a final dance to the grave accompanied by skeletons.

    What if we did something like this? (The technical wording is wrong here, but I think it gets the point across).

    Quote Originally Posted by Danse Macabre
    Danse Macabre: At 14th level, you have mastered the inescapable Dance of Death that eventually unites all people, and you can compel your foes to join the Danse Macabre.

    As an action, for each undead creature you control, choose up to one humanoid within five feet of it. Each target makes a Wisdom saving throw. If it fails, the target and the corresponding undead creature both dance in place until the beginning of your next turn.

    A dancing creature must use all its movement to dance without leaving its space and has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls. Additionally, other creatures have advantage on attack rolls against it. Creatures that can’t be charmed are immune to this spell.

    Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
    Basically, the idea is you have mass "Hold Person" (one target per undead you control, which could easily be a dozen or more!), except it only lasts one round and I've replaced the Paralysis effect with the dancing effect from Otto's Irresistable Dance.

    Another way to do it could be instead of lasting one round, it lasts until they succeed on a save like Hold Person does, but in the meantime each undead also dances until their "dance partner" succeeds on the save. That's potentially too strong, though, since each enemy is almost certainly more powerful than one skeleton or zombie. (Maybe this version could be 1/day instead of 1/short rest?)

    Additionally, it may bring up too much bookkeeping to track which of your dozen skeletons is still dancing for the rest of the battle.

    Now that I've written it out, I'm kind of digging this approach. What do you think?
    Last edited by Cynthaer; 2018-04-18 at 10:41 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthaer View Post
    (EDIT: As before, this post may seem kind of rambly because I wrote it over the course of several days. I'm just going to post it as-is, since this is a creative discussion, not an argument, and I can't be arsed to rewrite it into a single cohesive point.)

    I like it!

    I'll admit, the whole "Bardic Inspiration as a standalone spell-like effect" thing is a little odd, but having it heal an ally instead of the Bard herself is certainly in keeping with the Bard's support role.

    Beyond that, I think you've almost surpassed my ability to offer useful critique and this is probably ready for playtest. The biggest thing is that I have no idea how to evaluate the power of animated minions, especially in terms of how they scale at higher levels.

    I guess I'd say try to get feedback from people with experience playing Death Clerics and Necromancer Wizards. My gut says that the 14th-level ability is probably too powerful—Necromancers give their minions extra HP and extra damage on a hit (both scaling with character level), and that's it.

    My understanding is that this is generally regarded as powerful enough, due to the massive effect on the party's action economy. I strongly suspect that you're giving them too many raw stat buffs, and the multiplying effect will be overwhelming. You could easily have a dozen or more skeletons out, each of which attacks like a level 14 Hexblade, is proficient in all saves, and has pseudo-Cunning Action.

    Before I continue, a quick summary of the other subclasses' level 14 features so we can refer back to it:

    • Lore: reactively use BI on own skill checks
    • Valor: bonus action attack after casting a spell
    • Glamour: permanently look cooler, once per short rest make self hard to attack for 1 min
    • Swords: can do a weaker flourish for free instead of spending BI
    • Whispers: once per long rest terrify someone OOC into helping you


    So that's a pretty wide variety of in-combat and out-of-combat effects. Personally, I think it feels wrong to have the Bard's undead be stronger than the Necromancer's. Surely the Necromancer should be the go-to class for straightforward necromancy, right?

    So what if we took the Bard in another direction? Something more "supporty" instead of "damagey", perhaps (you're a Bard, after all), or maybe something that highlights the fact that your undead—unlike any other undead!—actually dance!

    If it helps, here's my attempt at brainstorming level 14 abilities:

    • Improve minions' combat stats (don't like this one, it steps on the Necromancer's toes)
    • Command existing undead (can't use this, it's already the Necromancer's level 14 feature)
    • Make undead "dance" for some in-combat effect, probably a buff or debuff. People are going to want to yell "THRILLER!" when this kicks in, so IMO it should be a 1/day big effect rather than an at-will ability.
    • Make undead "dance" for an out-of-combat effect. It's less clear what this might be, especially since Glamour already has an OOC mass charm. I like the in-combat effect more.
    • Some other OOC effect, related to your theme but unrelated to your actual undead. Not sure there's much design space here, since "Necrodancer" is basically the subclass's entire theme.


    Out of these, the only one I really like is the in-combat effect. As for what that might be...well, I've been thinking about the Danse Macabre. The theme of works showing the Danse Macabre is that no matter who we are in life, everyone is united in death, depicted as a final dance to the grave accompanied by skeletons.

    What if we did something like this? (The technical wording is wrong here, but I think it gets the point across).



    Basically, the idea is you have mass "Hold Person" (one target per undead you control, which could easily be a dozen or more!), except it only lasts one round and I've replaced the Paralysis effect with the dancing effect from Otto's Irresistable Dance.

    Another way to do it could be instead of lasting one round, it lasts until they succeed on a save like Hold Person does, but in the meantime each undead also dances until their "dance partner" succeeds on the save. That's potentially too strong, though, since each enemy is almost certainly more powerful than one skeleton or zombie. (Maybe this version could be 1/day instead of 1/short rest?)

    Additionally, it may bring up too much bookkeeping to track which of your dozen skeletons is still dancing for the rest of the battle.

    Now that I've written it out, I'm kind of digging this approach. What do you think?
    Thank you for the feedback! Greatly appreciated!

    Probably going to write up a slightly weaker version of final ability, but it only happens (according to DMG rules) 1/2 to 1/3 encounters, versus the necromancer having a slightly less powerful ability, all the time. I figured the necromancer has a balanced at will power, as does an Oathbreaker, so why not fuse them to make a really awesome ability, but not all the time. Might need SOME toning down. My thinking.

    However, I think my extra pseudo cunning action with dodge is OP. Probably fix that...

    Appreciate the thought you pit into the final ability, but I don't think it fits with the theme of undead dancers. Good ability, but the taste feels off.

    Again, thank you! Probably finish up final ability in a little bit! I'm going to tone down my idea, but keep it around, still. Please Critique when posted!

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    All right! Should be final draft now!


    Bard College of Midnight: V4

    Bards of Midnight are a variety of bards that tend to stand back in fights, providing music to accompany their dancers in their endeavors. However, these dancers have a sinister twist: they are undead. Their melodies are so compelling, even the Dead rise to dance.
    The Bards of Midnight control heaps of shambling dead in performance, and in combat. They have learned wretched secrets which allow them to drain life energy, and reanimate the lifeless beings that they kill. Bards of Midnight are often shunned by others, seen as twisted and eerie, perverting the music and reputation of all Bards.
    Bards of Midnight come in all forms, from mariachis controlling their Dead in a deathly melody, voodoo magicians commanding them through tribal drums, or simply Michael Jackson leading them with the power of Thriller.

    Doomed Melody: At 3rd level, you begin to learn how to control The Fate of two creatures through music. As a bonus action on your turn, you may expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration to pluck the Strings of Fate. Choose a creature within 60ft of you. That creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw equal to your spell save DC. On a fail, it takes Necrotic damage equal to your Bardic Inspiration die. On a success, it takes half as much damage. This damage ignores resistance, and treats immunity as resistance.
    Another creature within 60ft of the target recovers hit points equal to half the damage you dealt.

    Dance Beyond the Grave: Also at 3rd level, you can begin to build your undead troupe of dancers. You can spend 1 minute performing near a corpse that died within the last 10 minutes, and cause it to rise as a Zombie under your control for 24 hours, after which, it dies. You can also cause it to die at any time (no action required).
    This Zombie has 1 hit point, but also has temporary hit points equal to half your Bard level + your Charisma modifier. It follows your commands to the best of it's ability (no action required). Once you use this feature, you can't do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
    The number of Zombies you can create increases when you reach certain levels in this class. 2 Zombies at level 5, 3 at level 10, and 4 at level 15.

    Deathly Performers: When you reach 6th level, your control of the Dead improves. You learn the Animate Dead spell. It counts as a Bard spell for you, but doesn't count against the number of Bard spells you know.

    Dance Beyond Death: Also at 6th level, the power of Undeath in your music makes your dancers stronger. All Undead under your command from your Dance Beyond the Grave feature count as if they had been created with the Animate Dead spell. However, they no longer gain the Temporary Hit Point bonus. You can also target a pile of bones, making a Skeleton. Lastly, the target could have died at any time.
    Additionally, the Undead under your command no longer require your bonus action to command as long as you use your Doomed Melody feature.

    Dance of the Shambling Dead: At 14th level, you are a master of directing the Dead. As an action, you may begin a Dance of the Shambling Dead. While your Dance of the Shambling Dead is active, all Undead under your command gain the following benefits:

    • They each gain temporary hit points equal to your Bard level. These hit points disappear after your Dance of the Shambling Dead ends.
    • They add your Charisma modifier to their attack and damage rolls.
    • They add your proficiency bonus to all saving throws they make.
    • Their attacks count as magical for the purpose of overcoming immunity and resistance.
    • They can take the Dash or Disengage action as a bonus action on their turn.
    • When you cast a spell with the range of touch, one of your Undead can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. It must use it's reaction to do so. If the spell requires an attack roll, they use their modifier instead of yours.

    Your Dance of the Shambling Dead lasts for 1 minute, until you fail to use your bonus action commanding your undead, or when you fail to use your Doomed Melody feature. You can't use this ability again until you complete a short or long rest.

    My thoughts on final ability: Necromancers add HP (Not temp HP) to minions at all times. This works once. Necromancer a add proficiency to damage rolls, Oathbreakers add Charisma. This adds Charisma to Attacks AND damage. Maybe much, idk. Bypassing stuff. Meh. Extra dash or disengage is good, but not to OP for a 3/day ability. Lastly, something a familiar gets. Not to OP given that's a first level spell.

    This ability is effectively a 3/day effect, according to DMG guidelines. The caveats are that you must command them (no biggie), or spend an inspiration to do so (more biggie).

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    Male2Female

    Default Re: Please Critique this Bard College

    Well, that's all I've got. Personally, I still prefer a utility effect over raw combat power (even if it's only active a few times a day instead of all the time) just because it's a Bard subclass, but I don't have anything new to say about that—all my thoughts on the matter are in my previous post.

    From here you need input from people who have played Necromancers and can compare the experience, and ideally actual playtest feedback (which is always hard to find for homebrew, because there's just so much of it).

    Cheers!

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