Way to make fighter equal to psionic warrior/swordsage

[Venger]

My nine year old is a better gamer than that. Play your character, not a one dimensional tool.

Have to balance, sneak, swim or climb? Watch the fighter take his armor off. I'd be willing to bet the skilled melee combatant has decent physical skills and will beat you to the other side of that anti-magic enhanced obstacle every time.

So now instead of an armored character who doesn't do anything, you're an unarmored character who doesn't do anything. Awesome.

If that obstacle course involves anything but climb, jump, and swim (which you can totally afford to put ranks in with your 2 skill points and nonreliance on int) then no, no he won't.

Want to mobilize the pesantry? Try taking your nose out of a spell book long enough to watch the crowd gather around a famous fighter as if he were a bard.

And they would do that... why?

Want to actually be accepted by the population without casting Mass Charm? Try being one of them, oh wait. The fighter does that already, and there is no animosity when the spell wears off.

Because magic users aren't people or something. There's no animosity when a charm spell wears off either. You are confusing it with the intimidate skill.

Have an enemy supprise you in combat? Don't worry, the fighter doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity every time he takes a breath, and isn't the insta kill that you are.

Yeah, fighters never lose init due to their ability to cast nerveskitter, and never has to move out of threatened squares while being unable to tumble. Having hit points is all that matters in survivability and it's lucky fighter natively has access to important immunities unlike those dumb ol' t1 casters.

Need to carry dead casters to a random cleric after a near TPK? Luckily your fighter has the ability to do that, if he isn't holding a rival wizard at sword point to do it for him.

Because mules, tenser's floating discs, and bags of holding don't exist. Holding a rival wizard at swordpoint implies the fighter poses some kind of threat. He doesn't. Ever.

Are fighters a great class? Well, they weren't designed as one, but that doesn't mean that they can't be played as one.

you're allowed to like fighters, but it doesn't make them mechanically competent like your nonexamples imply

[Bucky]

For some fun, try to think of any feats a Fighter can get that are anywhere near the power or versatility of the spells an equal-level Sorcerer Bard could have. (Aside from maybe Leadership.)

Power aside, if you want a Fighter to have versatility from feats that's comparable to a caster, they basically need to have a library of feats that they can select from on the fly that's comparably broad to a Sorcerer's spells known. An ability like Pathfinder brawler's Martial Flexibility gets you there.

A brawler can take a move action to gain the benefit of a combat feat she doesn’t possess. This effect lasts for 1 minute. The brawler must meet all the feat’s prerequisites. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + 1/2 her brawler level (minimum 1).

Of course, the versatility also needs to scale. Thus, you also need something like this:

At 10th level, a brawler can use this ability to gain the benefit of three combat feats at the same time.

[Arbane]

redwizard007: No amount of Good Roleplaying(tm) will keep the dice from saying LOLNOPE.

Power aside, if you want a Fighter to have versatility from feats that's comparable to a caster, they basically need to have a library of feats that they can select from on the fly that's comparably broad to a Sorcerer's spells known. An ability like Pathfinder brawler's Martial Flexibility gets you there.

Having played a Warsighted Oracle in PF, I can attest that Martial Flexibility is indeed a very fun ability.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Now, personally, I DO think it would be VERY cool to take artificer and give it maneuvers, and call it a fighter. Now the fighter's role is a crafter-tinkerer. Since chainmail, fighter's kind of schtick has been "weapon and armor guy", But as you kind of said before, the one with the weapons should be at least able to craft magical arms and armor. Even better if they are just quartermasters/combat engineers on the team.

Giving them infusions, and making them responsible for making sure everyone's gear is up to snuff, and having superlative knowledge of how to use them is tops.

Nothing would be more satisfying than having a rusty old blade and everyone being like "this crap", and then handing it off to your "quartermaster", and them being like "Gimme this... THIS IS HOW YOU USE IT" *Blade hums, takes on an infusion, and then dude cuts through something*.

I think that would make for a FAR more balanced party member than just the *I hit/feat* guy.

Taking on the artificer role as well would suddenly give them some out of combat application and use, as everyone has to go to the maester to repair or upgrade their gear, they can have a service to sell, and you can give them skills like appraise, craft, and diplomacy for haggling.

AND it takes the role of who makes magic items away from pure mages. And THAT is big. Perhaps give some sort of bonus for crafting WITH pure mages, using aid another, and all is right with the world.

Check out the Blacksmith class from Spheres of Might. Seems right up your alley

[Lans]

Except, again, feats are not a class feature. They are not something the Fighter, and nobody else (or close to it), can do; they're a pool of character modifications to which basically everybody as access. Feats do not dramatically change the gameplay of the Fighter or his limited options; more feats won't do that, either.

I disagree, feats very much do change the game play, expecially when looking at feats like shock trooper, elusive target, karmic strike, imperious command and the various sub systems.

Why do i care if somebody else can do something I can do, if they don't do it as well, and there are a half dozen other things that I can do that they can't?

When you have dozens of extra feats you can dramatically change your game play, especially when your exploring options that would other wise be scantly touched like the luck, heritage, bindng, or the like.

Most feats aren't going to dramatically impact gameplay; they'll give the Fighter slightly bigger numbers. At best, a feat will give your Fighter some kind of SLA; yes, that would make him more versatile, but at that point you're just playing into the trope of "the way to fix a Fighter is to make him some kind of caster."

Or I am keeping him a mundane everyday character for the setting that he lives in. He is stuck with options that any dirt farmer or warrior could do some, but not all of. He is the everyman, the less special one.

Or, make a change to feats along the lines of the way stunning fist works for monks.

I hate dodge and the fact that its a prequisite for so much, but rewrite it as - Special: a Fighter gets a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class + 1/2 per Fighter level against attacks from all opponent. Note: A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses (such as this one and a dwarf's racial bonus to dodge giants) stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Make the feats better for fighters as Arbane mentioned, as these were intended for Fighters only. You wouldn't have to rewrite everything, just the ones the player was interested.
And not just for combat feats. Once you expand how many skills points a Fighter gets and expand the list, other feats like Persuasive would have Special: a Fighter gains a +2 bonus + 1/4 per level on all Bluff and Intimidate checks. Will it raise them a tier? Maybe... but probably not.
But it will give them some advantages in hitting better, not getting hit and things to do when they aren't hitting things.

That sounds like a horrible idea that would lead to the fighter just being off the RNG in a narrow swath of circumstances as opposed to actually increasing his options.

The big thing is, everyone gets X feats so they're obviously gonna pick the best ones. Thus, bonus feats are inevitably worse than the initial feats and the more you get, the worse each individual feat gets. If the system had a high number of high quality Fighter bonus feats that opened up new options and perhaps even required Fighter-level, it would be different, but as it stands you stand to get less from each level than the previous ones and compared to a class without bonus feats, you both have the same best feats (e.g. in Core, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack and Spirited Charge, perhaps EWP: Spiked Chain) with the Fighter adding a bunch of lower quality feats with their bonus feats (Weapon Focus-line, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Sunder/Disarm/Bull Rush, etc.) since they have no other options left.

There is a high number of good fighter bonus, and my alteration lets them take any feat from level 10 on wards, and that could easily be lowered if level 10 is too high.

Even in core you mentioned 8 feats, and there is sill the manyshot line and improved initiative in core. Once you leave core your options explode. Even if you do manage to take all the best ones, when you're getting 7 feats in a level you can afford to take feats that are situational, fringe or even just ok.

[Eldariel]

There is a high number of good fighter bonus, and my alteration lets them take any feat from level 10 on wards, and that could easily be lowered if level 10 is too high.

Even in core you mentioned 8 feats, and there is sill the manyshot line and improved initiative in core. Once you leave core your options explode. Even if you do manage to take all the best ones, when you're getting 7 feats in a level you can afford to take feats that are situational, fringe or even just ok.

While that may be true, they are broadly all usable to the same end and they don't actually increase your power meaningfully. You'll be okay at more things but you need other things like class features and stats to back it up anyways and if you have two ways to do the same thing (say, Sunder & Disarm or mounted charge and manyshot), you actually aren't gaining any meaningful advantage in terms of power. Versatility is a big thing if it allows you to defeat different challenges; all the bonus feat chains Fighter gains largely contribute to the same kinds of challenges which is the problem in the first place. Well, two, which I already covered with the build I just listed; AoO/Trip and charge. That's about all you'll want. And you can always dip two levels in a feat bonus class while taking 18 in a real class if you want to.

[Lans]

While that may be true, they are broadly all usable to the same end and they don't actually increase your power meaningfully. You'll be okay at more things but you need other things like class features and stats to back it up anyways

I disagree the class features of the low tier 3 classes and lower really don't add up to much more than a couple of feat chains.

and if you have two ways to do the same thing (say, Sunder & Disarm or mounted charge and manyshot), you actually aren't gaining any meaningful advantage in terms of power. Versatility is a big thing if it allows you to defeat different challenges; all the bonus feat chains Fighter gains largely contribute to the same kinds of challenges which is the problem in the first place.

My fix let the fighter take any feat from level 10 onwards, and before that manyshot can be used against opponents that are flying, up hill or in the rear ranks. Then there are things like the combat focus line that make you more durable, and gives blind sense.

Well, two, which I already covered with the build I just listed; AoO/Trip and charge. That's about all you'll want. And you can always dip two levels in a feat bonus class while taking 18 in a real class if you want to.

Why don't you want to be able to effectively use a bow/other ranged weapon?

If all your doing is charging and AoO your going to need more than a couple bonus feats, your going to want shock trooper, leap attack, knockdown, close quarters fighting, karmic strike, elusive target. Thats another 9 feats right there just to do 2 things, when going into ranged use is at the very least a legitimate option.

As are the other feats you might want to take, like the devotion feats and the like.

I'm not going to say that taking 20 levels of this is the best choice, but I will say that its close enough to be looked at for a tier 3 campaign, and way better than non pounce barbarian

[Eldariel]

I disagree the class features of the low tier 3 classes and lower really don't add up to much more than a couple of feat chains.

While it's true that you get martial maneuvers, you get them at ½ initiator level and without a recovery mechanic and a max of 3. As such, well, it's not really on the same power level as the real thing. Same with Incarnum, Binding & al.

My fix let the fighter take any feat from level 10 onwards, and before that manyshot can be used against opponents that are flying, up hill or in the rear ranks. Then there are things like the combat focus line that make you more durable, and gives blind sense.

Manyshot has a range limit of 30' making it very inconvenient vs. flying, uphill or rear of the rank enemies. It's frankly little more than a glorified reach melee attack (10' more than an Enlarged PC with a reach weapon). But yes, feats give a lot of nice boons but generally you want class features to build on them with rather than taking them as the point itself. To be a good archer you need very good Dex and Str and preferably primary Dex-focus; thus a Fighter dabbling in archery is probably still gonna be pretty bad at it unless he's an Archer first and melee second, or has magical Christmas land stats. Throwing is a bit better but takes special classes (Master Thrower, Hulking Hurler) to truly shine - archery is better out of the box with Rapid Shot.

Why don't you want to be able to effectively use a bow/other ranged weapon?

Generally all you need to efficiently use those is Rapid Shot - that is to say, Ranger 2. Rest comes from bow enhancements. And most of bow power comes from stats and enhancements in general; Woodland Archer is the key exception but that begins to take a lot of build resources to really make good (we're talking ways to get extra attacks and preferably extra attack actions too here).

If all your doing is charging and AoO your going to need more than a couple bonus feats, your going to want shock trooper, leap attack, knockdown, close quarters fighting, karmic strike, elusive target. Thats another 9 feats right there just to do 2 things, when going into ranged use is at the very least a legitimate option.

You don't need Knock-Down, Karmic Strike, Close-Quarters Fighting or Elusive Target really. Karmic Strike is for melee strike trading but if your plan is to trip and outreach, you'll very rarely be within enemy reach aside from Gargantuan or Large+ humanoid enemies with reach weapons. Close-Quarters Fighting is completely redundant once Freedom of Movement enters the picture and even before then, trivially cheap items like Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker or Anklets of Translocation make the combat maneuver threat minimal; and it's just a subset of one threat type in the first place (one against which reach AoO tripping build is already extremely well prepared with the basic gameplan I might add). Elusive Target is really good but for hit trading - not your primary plan. And it takes some supplementation to truly shine anyways. Those are all very good examples of nice-to-have second tier feats that add something cute but not really necessary for a basic build. And something like Elusive Target is an excellent example of the diminishing returns; you have to take 3 feats to get one good ability. Even for a Fighter getting feats every level that's very taxing; 3 levels for negating Power Attack and the passive overreach ability. You should only take it if you're taking Dodge and Mobility as prerequisites anyways or if you're building for an environment with only melee duels and things of that nature (say, a Warrior Arena); it's very good for 1v1ing strong melee types but that's about it.

As are the other feats you might want to take, like the devotion feats and the like.

Devotions are good but you're limited to one unless you're a Cleric and dipping Cleric is strictly superior to taking them as feats since it gives you Turn Undead to recoup them. I wouldn't want to pick them up as feats unless I were forced to single-class for some reason.

I'm not going to say that taking 20 levels of this is the best choice, but I will say that its close enough to be looked at for a tier 3 campaign, and way better than non pounce barbarian

I dunno, non-Pounce Barbarian with Street Fighter, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem, Trapkiller and company is actually pretty good. Other spirit totems are pretty good too. You negate prerequisites for Improved Trip and get extra attacks on a full attack and can charge non-linearly and eventually multicharge while ignoring many charge limitations and even some minor extra crit range. It's pretty nice overall and you have out-of-combat options in 4 skill points and Trapkiller and the obvious Greater Frenzy options. It's not optimal but not a bad 20 level class; I'd definitely at least strongly consider it over any Fighter.

[Lans]

And something like Elusive Target is an excellent example of the diminishing returns; you have to take 3 feats to get one good ability. Even for a Fighter getting feats every level that's very taxing; 3 levels for negating Power Attack and the passive overreach ability.

My fix was to add multiple feats per level, giving more as it went on, it could grab all of Elusive target at level 4 or 6. This was to help mitigate the diminishing returns, let a class play with the feat subsystem, and hopefully let it give more as it leveled up. I'll go over your other points after work.

While it's true that you get martial maneuvers, you get them at ½ initiator level and without a recovery mechanic and a max of 3. As such, well, it's not really on the same power level as the real thing. Same with Incarnum, Binding & al.

While you maybe restricted to lower level maneuvers the difference is not as big as with spells, and basic feats can make the difference in a lot of situations. Take Time Stand Stills for example, it doubles the warblades attacks, essentially doubling his damage. My Fighter can replicate that effect if it can up its damage and accuracy by enough it will have the same effect. Now, there are a few manuevers that are harder to replicate like the Inferno Blast, but I don't think theres all that many.

As for incarnum, my fighter can make the 2 points of essentia difference with a couple of feats, or even just having a better base attack bonus. The Chakra binds are a different matter as I don't know the higher level binds to well, but I did use a qualifier in my statement. Im also not sure on the binder pacts.

Manyshot has a range limit of 30' making it very inconvenient vs. flying, uphill or rear of the rank enemies. It's frankly little more than a glorified reach melee attack (10' more than an Enlarged PC with a reach weapon). But yes, feats give a lot of nice boons but generally you want class features to build on them with rather than taking them as the point itself. To be a good archer you need very good Dex and Str and preferably primary Dex-focus; thus a Fighter dabbling in archery is probably still gonna be pretty bad at it unless he's an Archer first and melee second, or has magical Christmas land stats. Throwing is a bit better but takes special classes (Master Thrower, Hulking Hurler) to truly shine - archery is better out of the box with Rapid Shot.

Point about many shot, I don't think rapid shot would be good enough by itself, and a subpar dex can be mitigted by feats, and throwing boomerangs is worthwile with boomerang daze and richochet.


Generally all you need to efficiently use those is Rapid Shot - that is to say, Ranger 2. Rest comes from bow enhancements. And most of bow power comes from stats and enhancements in general; Woodland Archer is the key exception but that begins to take a lot of build resources to really make good (we're talking ways to get extra attacks and preferably extra attack actions too here).

Devotions are good but you're limited to one unless you're a Cleric and dipping Cleric is strictly superior to taking them as feats since it gives you Turn Undead to recoup them. I wouldn't want to pick them up as feats unless I were forced to single-class for some reason.

Actually you're limited to two, and if your a cleric you can take 3. I'm not concerning myself with high tier classes

I dunno, non-Pounce Barbarian with Street Fighter, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem, Trapkiller and company is actually pretty good. Other spirit totems are pretty good too. You negate prerequisites for Improved Trip and get extra attacks on a full attack and can charge non-linearly and eventually multicharge while ignoring many charge limitations and even some minor extra crit range. It's pretty nice overall and you have out-of-combat options in 4 skill points and Trapkiller and the obvious Greater Frenzy options. It's not optimal but not a bad 20 level class; I'd definitely at least strongly consider it over any Fighter.

You do understand that I gave the fighter either 60 or 100 additional feats, so he could afford to take Open Minded like 23 times, and pick up trap finding if skills and traps were issues for out of combat options

[Thirdtwin]

Open Minded is a fighter bonus feat? And gives fighters a better skill list?

[Venger]

Open Minded is a fighter bonus feat? And gives fighters a better skill list?

open-minded is neither a fighter feat nor does it improve one's skill list. when taken, you get 5 skill points to spend immediately. that's all it does.

[Thirdtwin]

open-minded is neither a fighter feat nor does it improve one's skill list. when taken, you get 5 skill points to spend immediately. that's all it does.

So even with 100 extra fighter bonus feats, a fighter could still only take Open Minded 7 times base (8 if you're human, and more if you do other stuff obviously). And, is there a fighter bonus feat for trapfinding somewhere that I missed?

[Lans]

Open Minded is a fighter bonus feat? And gives fighters a better skill list?

Just to repost the start of this tangent

You could keep the fighter focused on feats if you both up the amount he gets, and expands what he can use them on as he goes up levels, basically let him take any feat at levels above 10, and give him level/2 or 3 feats each new level.

So, basically yes it is for this tangent of the discussion. As for skill list, he could can throw feats at solving that.

[Karl Aegis]

So even with 100 extra fighter bonus feats, a fighter could still only take Open Minded 7 times base (8 if you're human, and more if you do other stuff obviously). And, is there a fighter bonus feat for trapfinding somewhere that I missed?

It's a pair of feats from Magic of Incarnum which the fighter can totally take because it has enough feats to spare some.

[Venger]

So even with 100 extra fighter bonus feats, a fighter could still only take Open Minded 7 times base (8 if you're human, and more if you do other stuff obviously). And, is there a fighter bonus feat for trapfinding somewhere that I missed?

No, you didn't miss anything. No such fighter bonus feat exists.

It's a pair of feats from Magic of Incarnum which the fighter can totally take because it has enough feats to spare some.

Making it the equivalent of the incarnate in addition to being the equivalent of the swordsage

[Alent]

I seem to have missed something. That whole thing about giving Fighter the same feat 23 times to give him the equivalent of 7+int skill points per level instead of just giving the class 8+int skills per level to begin with- that was a joke to demonstrate how feats aren't a substitute for class features, right?

[Cosi]

It's a pair of feats from Magic of Incarnum which the fighter can totally take because it has enough feats to spare some.

The idea that the Fighter has feats to spare only really makes sense if you believe that people are sinking lots of their feats into Fighter Bonus Feats. I do not think this is the case.

[Lans]

I seem to have missed something. That whole thing about giving Fighter the same feat 23 times to give him the equivalent of 7+int skill points per level instead of just giving the class 8+int skills per level to begin with- that was a joke to demonstrate how feats aren't a substitute for class features, right?

A lot of it was to make the fighter scale with level semi exponentially, and letting them explore the feat subsystem.
I think realistically this is a much, but if a fighter wound up getting a feat for every spell known for a caster, that would be reasonable. The other had to do with enough feats not equaling class features or at least getting into a toss up ranged.The open minded thing was in response to the barbarians better skill points.

The idea that the Fighter has feats to spare only really makes sense if you believe that people are sinking lots of their feats into Fighter Bonus Feats. I do not think this is the case.

If the argument is about my fighter fix, this is less true as my fighter fix lets the fighter take any feat from level 10 on wards and gives the fighter a lot more bonus feats as he levels up.

In general I think a few fighter feats get taken, a lot of people take improved initiative, melee people take the shock trooper+ leap attack. In general I would say people take 2 fighter bonus feats on average

[Bucky]

A lot of the reason people don't take so many fighter bonus feats is that the good ones tend to be later in the feat chains. But a lot of these are simply on par with other subsystems' feats - not worth spending half their feats slots to get at the levels where they're most useful. Spring Attack is very nice, it does what a martial feat should do, but it's not worth getting Dodge for, and it's not worth getting Mobility for if you have an ability like Spring Attack that avoids AoOs.

As a separate issue, feat chains typically don't scale well for deep feats. Yes, improved trip is way better than combat expertise. But in order for the fighter class to work as written, deep chains like {Weapon Focus -> Greater Weapon Focus and Weapons Specialization -> Greater Weapon Specialization} need to start close to other feats in power level and then get exponentially stronger, not have the late feats do the same thing as the early feats.

[Cosi]

If the argument is about my fighter fix, this is less true as my fighter fix lets the fighter take any feat from level 10 on wards and gives the fighter a lot more bonus feats as he levels up.

Sure. It still seems bad though. There just aren't feats on par with finger of death out there for the taking.

[Nifft]

Sure. It still seems bad though. There just aren't feats on par with finger of death out there for the taking.

You can get slay living from a bonus feat, but not a Fighter bonus feat.

[Karl Aegis]

The idea that the Fighter has feats to spare only really makes sense if you believe that people are sinking lots of their feats into Fighter Bonus Feats. I do not think this is the case.

What does this even mean? Are your Fighters not getting bonus feats?

[Cosi]

What does this even mean? Are your Fighters not getting bonus feats?

If your comment was in fact in reference to the proposal that the Fighter get totally unrestricted bonus feats after a certain point, nothing. That avoids the issue.

In reference to the RAW Fighter, the idea that he has "free feats" is misleading. He gets a resource he can spend on a specific kind of feat -- Fighter Bonus Feats -- so he doesn't have to use his level up feats on that kind of feat. But that only results in him getting "free feats" to the degree that he otherwise would have spent feats on Fighter Bonus Feats.

To make an analogy, giving you a $10 coupon to Burger King isn't the same thing as giving you $10. It's not nothing, but its worth less than $10 by some amount dependent on how likely you are to go to Burger King.

[Venger]

You can get slay living from a bonus feat, but not a Fighter bonus feat.

greater aberrant dragonmark is a general feat which isn't in any other category. how do you get it as a bonus feat? to say nothing of the fact that it's the third in a chain, so you can't get it from one feat.

[Cosi]

greater aberrant dragonmark is a general feat which isn't in any other category. how do you get it as a bonus feat? to say nothing of the fact that it's the third in a chain, so you can't get it from one feat.

Some people are talking about a proposal where the Fighter gets unrestricted bonus feats. Though technically the post he was replying to was just talking about feats, not Fighter bonus feats.

[Venger]

Some people are talking about a proposal where the Fighter gets unrestricted bonus feats. Though technically the post he was replying to was just talking about feats, not Fighter bonus feats.

Are they making up new feats, or just giving fighters access to extant feats? If the latter, then you need to sink 3 feats into the aberrant dragonmark line for slay living 1/day, keyed off the fighter's totally awesome charisma score.

[Cosi]

Are they making up new feats, or just giving fighters access to extant feats? If the latter, then you need to sink 3 feats into the aberrant dragonmark line for slay living 1/day, keyed off the fighter's totally awesome charisma score.

I was not claiming it was a good idea, or that doing so would be mechanically effective. Just that under the proposal in question, you could in fact get slay living from feats.

[SirNibbles]

Fighters get prepared Arcane spellcasting (Int to DC/max spell level, Con to Bonus spells per day) with progression equal to a Paladin's (CL = 1/2 Fighter Level).



Fighter's Study: Choose one of the following bonuses at 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th levels.
-Your BAB is treated as being 3 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat or prerequisites and 1 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting Prestige Class prerequisites.
-All of your ability scores are treated as being 2 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat prerequisites.
-All of your skills are treated as being 4 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat prerequisites and 2 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting Prestige Class prerequisites.
-You count as up to one size smaller or larger than you actually are for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.
-Any feat that grants you a bonus to weapon attack or damage grants an additional +1, plus an extra 1 for every 5 fighter levels you have.
-You count as any creature of the same type and subtype as you for the purpose of meeting feat requirements.
-Your count as being of within one step of your actual alignment for the purpose of meeting feat and Prestige Class requirements.

You cannot select the same ability more than once.

Combat Healing (Ex): At 7th level, a Fighter gains the ability to heal his wounds an amount equal to the result of a Heal check. He can use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to his Constitution modifier. Using this ability requires a standard action.

Skill points: 4 + Int skill points per level
Class skills: Add Balance, Diplomacy, Heal, and Use Magic Device to the Fighter's class skills

[Venger]

Fighters get prepared Arcane spellcasting (Int to DC/max spell level, Con to Bonus spells per day) with progression equal to a Paladin's (CL = 1/2 Fighter Level).



Fighter's Study: Choose one of the following bonuses at 6th, 9th, and 12th levels.
-Your BAB is treated as being 3 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat prerequisites.
-All of your ability scores are treated as being 2 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat prerequisites.
-All of your skills are treated as being 4 higher than normal for the purpose of meeting any feat prerequisites.

Combat Healing (Ex): At 7th level, a Fighter gains the ability to heal his wounds an amount equal to the result of a Heal check. He can use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to his Constitution modifier. Using this ability requires a standard action.

Skill points: 4 + Int skill points per level
Class skills: Add Balance, Diplomacy, Heal, and Use Magic Device to the Fighter's class skills

What list does he pull spells from?

Can you pick a fighter's study ability more than once, or do you have to work your way through all three of them?

[Red Fel]

greater aberrant dragonmark is a general feat which isn't in any other category. how do you get it as a bonus feat? to say nothing of the fact that it's the third in a chain, so you can't get it from one feat.

And again, it comes back to the point that if your way to make a Fighter better is to give him spells or powers, you're not really making a Fighter better - you're making a gish, a PsiWar or ToB class. Which is where you could just as easily start.