Hey everybody need help with a character build :)

[ngilop]

Hello and welcome to my post asking for assistance.

I am looking to build a level 30 gestalt character.


I am thinking of mystic theurging it up.

I am not 100% set on a whole bunch but I do want the following

Race: Human
Alignment: Good
Feat: Quicken Spell (PHB) , Silent Spell (PHB) , Still Spell (PHB) Innate Spell: Miracle (ELH), Extend Spell (PHB), Persistent Spell (CA), Maximize Spell (PHB), Enhance Spell (ELH),

Unfortunately the DM is not disallowing epic spells...

this si what the DM has so far for character creation rules

1. 30th level Gestalt.
2. 42 Point Buy.
3. Roll for all HP.
4. 1,000,000 gp.
5. LA can be used on one side of the Gestalt Track.

If you decide to pick leadership and get a cohort then here are the rules on that

Spoiler: Cohort Creation Rules

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-Standard Level by PC Leadership Score (Cohort level capped at 20)(Non-gestalt)
-36 Point Buy
-Roll for all HP
-Wealth by Cohort Level, (capped at 250,00gp)
-Non-racial LA cannot exceed 2

And of course.. how do I spend all that gold

[retaliation08]

Avoid Mystic Theurge. You want class features that offer Metamagic reduction.

Actually, with all of that gold, you could probably just buy metamagic rods and save all those feats.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ngilop
I am thinking of mystic theurging it up.

Originally Posted by retaliation08
Avoid Mystic Theurge.

If the OP wants advice on a mystic theurge, telling him to avoid it doesn’t really help.

OP, what kind of mystic theurge were you thinking? I’ve played wizard/druid theurges and had a ton of fun, so naturally the feat I would recommend is Natural Spell.

[Karl Aegis]

Okay, Mystic Theurge. Take 30 levels of Wizard and take the Domain Wizard variant from Unearthed Arcana and the Domain Granted Power alternate class feature from Complete Champion. There is your Mystic Theurge part of the gestalt. What else did you want?

[Celestia]

Mystic theurge and other dual-advancement prestige classes are actually not allowed in gestalt, so I am assuming that you mean it as shorthand for an arcane//divine gestalt. In that case, I'd suggest, due to your love of metamagic, to go with a simple wizard 5/intancatrix 10/wizard 15//cleric 30 as a base. You may also want to tack on other prestige classes on the wizard side, such as archmage or adjutant champion. I'd also make sure to pick up divine metamagic, especially for persist.

[ngilop]

I Guess I need to clarify.

I did not mean the prestige class and I am sorry for mentioning the name. I just meant the idea. A guy who uses both arcane and divine magic.

It is not so much I am in love with meta magic. As the 3 feats I most definitely want require several others as prerequisites.

[retaliation08]

I Guess I need to clarify.

I did not mean the prestige class and I am sorry for mentioning the name. I just meant the idea. A guy who uses both arcane and divine magic.

It is not so much I am in love with meta magic. As the 3 feats I most definitely want require several others as prerequisites.

So Wizard//Archivist with Academic Priest feat gives Int based Arcane and Divine casting with access to most of the spells.

[DarkSoul]

Hello and welcome to my post asking for assistance.

I am looking to build a level 30 gestalt character.


I am thinking of mystic theurging it up.

I am not 100% set on a whole bunch but I do want the following

Race: Human
Alignment: Good
Feat: Quicken Spell (PHB) , Silent Spell (PHB) , Still Spell (PHB) Innate Spell: Miracle (ELH), Extend Spell (PHB), Persistent Spell (CA), Maximize Spell (PHB), Enhance Spell (ELH),

Unfortunately the DM is not disallowing epic spells...

this si what the DM has so far for character creation rules

1. 30th level Gestalt.
2. 42 Point Buy.
3. Roll for all HP.
4. 1,000,000 gp.
5. LA can be used on one side of the Gestalt Track.

And of course.. how do I spend all that gold

Could you clarify whether epic spells are allowed? I'm assuming no.

Also, what books are allowed? Any other special rules the DM has mentioned? Specifically, are you still limited to a prestige class on just one side each level?

[Anthrowhale]

Even with the most restrictive interpretation (nothing campaign specific, no dragon magazine), you can make a very powerful character.

Wizard 30
//Archivist 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Dweomerkeeper 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 1/Contemplative 1/Hierophant 5/Paragnostic Apostle 5

This leaves you with:

1) Persistent spells via DMM[Persist]
2) Supernatural Spell (i.e. free wishes).
3) Caster level 35 (via Hierophant's Spell Power).
4) The best form of evasion (Divine Oracle 2).
and plentiful feats/domains/special abilities.

Add in Uncanny Forethought for the ability to spontaneously cast any known spell (of which you know almost all).

[Covenant12]

Mystic theurge and other dual-advancement prestige classes are actually not allowed in gestalt, so I am assuming that you mean it as shorthand for an arcane//divine gestalt. In that case, I'd suggest, due to your love of metamagic, to go with a simple wizard 5/intancatrix 10/wizard 15//cleric 30 as a base. You may also want to tack on other prestige classes on the wizard side, such as archmage or adjutant champion. I'd also make sure to pick up divine metamagic, especially for persist.

Tends to be my recommendation as well. Wiz5/Incant10/Archmage5/Incant+10 gives three epic bonus feats though, as epic incantatrix is in print and full epic ready. (also more instant metamagic)

Dual casting in gestalt makes you pretty much a pure caster, which certainly isn't a bad thing. If epic spellcasting is allowed you need the feat by 30. 1 million gold won't get you far there unless you have DC 1 epic spells, but plan for the future.

Can you have prestige classes on both sides or only one? Can you get epic bonus feats level 21+ from both sides or just one? And the standard questions about books allowed.

Standard +6 to all stats item, +5 inherent bonuses to critical ability scores, max non-epic bonuses to whatever you can. Ring of spell-battle is game breaking at this level and dirt cheap, I'd honestly request the DM ban this item. +1 mithril twilight chain shirt and mithril buckler, use magic vestment to make them +5. Extend so only cast every other day.

If both sides can be prestige I'd take Anthrowhale's advice for divine caster over mine, note wizard/archivist is a ton of bookkeeping.

In addition to epic spellcasting take multispell at least twice, improved spell capacity maybe once or twice, I'd aim at three improved metamagic feats (incant10 gives you one free), so quicken is only +1 spell level.

Very feat intensive but epic counterspell is available at level 30. With ring of spell battle you'll easily know every spell cast, and can counter them, sometimes reversing them onto the caster as many times as you have spell slots. Even when flat-footed, multiple times per round without using actions. Which you might want to explain to the DM first and see if he bans it for sanity.

[Falontani]

Had a build for you, then I noticed you wanted to be a good guy. I can't make you into a Lich/Dry Lich/Demilich as a good guy, so I'm not going to bother

[PacMan2247]

How big a party are you going to have? I'm a fan of the necromancer variants in Unearthed Arcana, and sticking to necromancer for the full 30 levels on one side would make your skeletal minion pretty impressive, and if you take awaken undead from Libris Mortis you'll increase its utility significantly- a level 20 tier 1 cohort would probably still be better at a broader variety of things, even with the restrictions you described, but having their level capped at 20 while you're going to keep advancing might mean any cohort is going to be too squishy at some point. The boost to your undead if you're willing to trade off the extra spells per day would also help if you decided to take the Corpsecrafter line of feats and build yourself an army, but if you're going to have a decent-sized group, bringing in a bunch of minions might bog things down a lot. If the group's small enough, you might also consider building a Thrallherd instead, to get minions that won't be limited by that cohort power cap, or even just Druid for the animal companion (a 1-level dip of Beastmaster and possibly the Natural Bond feat would add some power to the companion, and Eggynack wrote one hell of a handbook for the druid if you decide to go that way).

[Nifft]

Wizard 30
//Archivist 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Dweomerkeeper 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 1/Contemplative 1/Hierophant 5/Paragnostic Apostle 5

That's a good start, but the PrCs are on the wrong side.

Wizard only gives a few bonus feats; Archivist has class features across all 20 levels.

Wizard 5 / (PrCs 25) // Archivist 30 -- more skill points, more class features, more better.


In terms of PrCs mentioned above, I think these are good:
- Dweomerkeeper 10
- Incantatrix 10
- Sacred Exorcist 1
- Divine Oracle 4

You could go with Divine Oracle 2 / Contemplative 1 / _____ 1 instead, but I prefer Divine Oracle 4 for Uncanny Dodge and rolling twice for Divinations -- the latter means Wizard spells like Contact Other Plane are much less likely to drive you insane.

[Anthrowhale]

That's a good start, but the PrCs are on the wrong side.

That seems reasonable but you need Domain:Magic to enter Dweomerkeeper, hence Church Inquisitor + substitute domain.

Also, Hierophant is also a pretty good class in epic levels---easily worth losing 10 skill points.

So, to optimize you'll probably (a) swap the prc to one side or the other depending on what's needed and (b) crowd the beginning of each into the first 20 levels to maximize saves.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, the Mystic Theurge class itself is automatically disallowed by default by the base Gestalt rules, as any prestige class that simultaneously progresses two classes simultaneously is not allowed. You can still mix arcane and divine in your build.

Dweomerkeeper is going to become your favorite class.
Incantatrix (PGtF) is also highly recommended, and you can max out both with as many levels as you've got.

You want 20 levels of a given primary spellcasting class, but you have 30 levels to work with, plus being a gestalt character you could actually max out three classes' spellcasting. Thus I'd go with something like the following build:

Class levels (spellcasting level)
1. Beguiler 1// Wizard 1 (B1, W1)
2. Spellthief 1// Wizard 2 (W2)
3. Beguiler 2// Wizard 3 (B2, W3)
4. Archivist 1// Wizard 4 (A1, W4)
5. Archivist 2// Wizard 5 (A2, W5)
6. Incantatrix 1// Beguiler 3 (W6, B3)
7. Incantatrix 2// Archivist 3 (B4, A3)
8. Incantatrix 3// Archivist 4 (W7, A4)
9. Incantatrix 4// Archivist 5 (W8, A5)
10. Incantatrix 5// Archivist 6 (W9, A6)
11. Incantatrix 6// Archivist 7 (W10, A7)
12. Incantatrix 7// Beguiler 4 (W11, B5)
13. Incantatrix 8// Beguiler 5 (W12, B6)
14. Incantatrix 9// Beguiler 6 (W13, B7)
15. Incantatrix 10// Beguiler 7 (W 14, B8)
16. Archivist 8// Beguiler 8 (A8, B9)
17. Archivist 9// Paragnostic Apostle? Archmage? 1 (A9, W15)
18. Archivist 10// Paragnostic Apostle? Archmage? 2 (A10, W16)
19. Archivist 11// Paragnostic Apostle? Archmage? 3 (A11, W17)
20. Beguiler 9// Contemplative 1 (B10, A12)
21. Beguiler 10// Dweomerkeeper 1 (B11, A13)
22. Beguiler 11// Dweomerkeeper 2 (B12, A14)
23. Beguiler 12// Dweomerkeeper 3 (B13, A15)
24. Beguiler 13// Dweomerkeeper 4 (B14, A16)
25. Beguiler 14// Dweomerkeeper 5 (B15, A17)
26. Beguiler 15// Dweomerkeeper 6 (B16, A18)
27. Beguiler 16// Dweomerkeeper 7 (B17, A19)
28. Beguiler 17// Dweomerkeeper 8 (B18, A20)
29. Beguiler 18// Dweomerkeeper 9 (B19, W18)
30. Beguiler 19// Dweomerkeeper 10 (B20, W19)

That ends up with Beguiler 20, Archivist 20, and Wizard 19 spellcasting. Take the feat Master Spellthief so your caster levels for Beguiler and Wizard are 40 at your current level. Don't bother taking Practiced Spellcaster, it won't help your arcane caster levels, Archivist is there for buffs and divine utility, and you can use Supernatural Spell on an Archivist spell when necessary.

This has Beguiler 19 class features, with Advanced Learning delayed to an even-numbered caster level. You'll want to take Versatile Spellcaster, which allows you to spend two spontaneous spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, including Wizard and Archivist spells you've learned and copied into your spellbook/prayerbook. This also gives you early access to the next higher level of Beguiler spells, allowing your Advanced Learning spells to be 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 9th level. I'd get Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Greater Shadow Evocation, Greater Shadow Conjuration, and Superior Invisibility for those.

You also have Archivist 11 class features, Dark knowledge (dread secret) is fantastic because it's a no-save stun if your check is high enough (easy to do with Item Familiar, custom items that boost skills, Collector of Stories, Moment of Prescience, etc.).

For Incantatrix, apply its additional prohibited school to your Beguiler spellcasting, excluding Necromancy from that class. Say you visited the Otyugh Hole in CS to get its Iron Will prerequisite without spending a feat on it.

The Contemplative level is to get the Magic domain to qualify for Dweomerkeeper. You'll need to keep Scribe Scroll from Wizard to meet its item creation feat prerequisite, unless you plan on getting another item creation feat.

For Dweomerkeeper's Mantle of Spells, you'll be able to pick any spell you can cast at the level you gained that class feature, so they can all be 9th level or lower Wizard spells, or 7th, 8th, 9th, 9th, and 9th level Archivist spells, or a mix of those. Just pick Miracle for one of those and you don't even need Innate Spell, or any of the feats that are prerequisites for it. Still take Quicken Spell, and carry a few (greater) metamagic rods of Silent and Still spell for when they're needed. You can also use Supernatural Spell to remove all verbal, somatic, material, and xp components from a spell, such as Miracle or Wish.

[Anthrowhale]

Adding in Beguiler is great for the additional skills, skill list, and class features.

Master Spellthief should set Beguiler caster level to 24 (= Wizard 5 + Beguiler 19) and Wizard caster level to 38 (= Wizard 5 + Beguiler 19 + 14 levels of wizard advancement).

Versatile Spellcaster for off-list spells is at least an 'ask the DM' due to the contrary wording in Rules Compendium. Uncanny Forethought clearly does work for spontaneous spell access.

If PGtF is on the table, then it's always tempting to (ab)use many other elements of Faerun magic. If not, DMM[Persist] seems like the reasonable alternative.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Master Spellthief should set Beguiler caster level to 24 (= Wizard 5 + Beguiler 19) and Wizard caster level to 38 (= Wizard 5 + Beguiler 19 + 14 levels of wizard advancement).

Master Spellthief specified that class levels stack for determining what level of spell you can steal, but that your arcane spellcaster levels (i.e. the effective level for determining spells/day and highest level spells) stack for determining your caster levels with every class. Even if that wasn't the case, Beguiler would use 26 (Beguiler 19 +1 prestige class level +1 Spellthief +5 Wizard) and Wizard would include the Spellthief level.

[Anthrowhale]

Master Spellthief specified that class levels stack for determining what level of spell you can steal, but that your arcane spellcaster levels (i.e. the effective level for determining spells/day and highest level spells) stack for determining your caster levels with every class. Even if that wasn't the case, Beguiler would use 26 (Beguiler 19 +1 prestige class level +1 Spellthief +5 Wizard) and Wizard would include the Spellthief level.

You are right about caster level 26 for the Beguiler and 39 for wizard. I'm skeptical about the more generous interpretation in context.

Let me add that Uncanny Forethought goes great with Supernatural Spell. Use Spell Mastery on Ice Assassin, True Resurrection and Erupt to turn them into combat spells.

[Goaty14]

Epic Spells are nuts, mainly because they're open-ended, except they're explicitly supposed to be doing really crazy things. Don't abuse it.

That said, you should max Know.(Arcana) and Know.(Religion) or Know.(Nature) for as many slots as possible (Epic-level slots: Modifier/10)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Spoiler: Pet peeve, probably not worth reading

Show

Mystic theurge and other dual-advancement prestige classes are actually not allowed in gestalt [...]

Common misconception. The rule does not refer to dual-advancement PrCs, but says: "prestige classes that are essentially class combinations [...] should be prohibited". Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, and Eldritch Knight fall under that definition, apparently (arguably nonsense, as MT has no class features that would identify it as being "essentially a bard/paladin", but what are you going to do?). There are no guidelines on what it means to be "essentially class combinations". Blackguard provides SA and spells, is it a paladin/rogue mashup? Well, no, it's a dirty-fighting evil paladin. Just because a PrC shares some class features with a base class, doesn't mean it's disallowed in gestalt. And of course, the whole "rule" is bull**** and needs to be scrapped in the first place, but hey, WotC balance brought us multiclass XP penalties before, and we all love those, don't we?

Also, I have to keep reminding people: there are no "sides" to a gestalt, so nothing can be on the wrong "side". At each level, you combine two classes, and then take a level in the combined class.

Anyway...

How about black ethergaunt 16+4/swiftblade 9/spelldancer 1//druid 6/planar shepherd 10/wizard 5/+druid 2/wizard +1/druid +2/wizard +1/druid +3. Gets you 31st-level wizard casting with a +20 racial bonus on Intelligence, 23rd-level druid spellcasting and wild shape, and persistomancy. Be a planar shepherd of Acheron, Wild Shape into a chronotryn, and enjoy your 4 standard/2 move/2 swift actions per round.

[Rebel7284]

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Dweomerkeeper 10/Epic Incantatrix 5
//
Cloistered Cleric 1/Factotum 11/Spellthief 1/Archivist 17