OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

[Knick]

It took me a couple of readings to understand Haley's comment about getting their heads under. So focused on the D&D aspects of this strip that it took me a little while to think about other meanings of the word Limbo.

Giant, your one off jokes make my day!

. . . and I just got the joke. . . .


I love Chaos magic. It's so colourful.

[Herr Doktor]

Worse bluff ever, V!

Of course, Blackwing probably made his Bluff check and saved the day.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yay for rarely-seen but not entirely unprecedented well-organized OotS!
I bet V is the one who's most enjoying this.

Rarely seen? Last book they had two fights where they were very well-organized (pyramid ambush & escape from Tarquin's encirclement). Yes, they can still be caught unprepared, but they are no longer the barely-competent team from the first book.

GW

[Rockphed]

Yeah, I think you're the only one with any skin in that game.

Here? Maybe, but, even then, I doubt it. You see, Chaotics are the agents of change and evolution. There would have been none if it weren't for us. There was quite a bit. So there are clearly way more than just me.

I'm pretty sure that one of themes of the comic is that while good/evil is a okay way to differentiate between people's goals, alignment in general is not nearly as important as some people would have you think. Specifically, the law/chaos divide is pretty strongly pointed out as being less than useful as a moral system. Furthermore, we have seen Good antagonists (Miko) and Evil protagonists (Belkar since he leveled up his teamplayerness). Law and chaos divisions seems really muted in this whole thing.

[zimmerwald1915]

Rarely seen? Last book they had two fights where they were very well-organized (pyramid ambush & escape from Tarquin's encirclement). Yes, they can still be caught unprepared, but they are no longer the barely-competent team from the first book.

GW

Is it not evident that Hilgya is carrying them in this fight?

[Hiro Quester]

Ponchella’s last comment about if Durkuka’s host was the one that held them back, he can’t come do evil stuff with her afterwards.

I just about spit my coffee out with loud laughter. Made a few people around me look over.

I guess this means that Ponchella doesn’t know that Durkuka’s plan succeeding means there won’t be an “afterwards”.

[Chei]

Yes, though we saw Durkon sprinkle some for his attempted resurrections in the Draketooth pyramid. Art upgrades are very nice. Shall we?

Ha, I get the joke. I did notice the diamond dust for Durkon's attempt, and it's funny you mention it because V did cast stoneskin in the same book. In fact V bought the material components (for both probably) onscreen. Startlingly relevant stuff, that dust.

[zimmerwald1915]

Ponchella’s last comment about if Durkuka’s host being the one that held them back, he can’t come do evil stuff with her afterwards.

I just about spit my coffee out with loud laughter. Made a few people around me look over.

I guess this means that Ponchella doesn’t know that Durkuka’s plan succeeding means there won’t be an “afterwards”.

Not for the Material Plane anyway. Good thing they're both high-level Clerics who can be on literally any other plane when World 2.0 is destroyed.

[nocoolnamejim]

. . . and I just got the joke. . . .

If it makes you feel any better I didn't get it until that post either. Then it got a bit of a half-grin out of me and a "ooooh. Yeah I should have figured that one out earlier."

[AutomatedTeller]

That was great. I can see why Greg is so confused - he's used to the OOTS scrambling, trying to recover from a surprise. I think maybe he should have thought about the 1st Xykon meeting - they managed to take out an epic lich, with tactics of "just charge"

[nocoolnamejim]

Is it not evident that Hilgya is carrying them in this fight?

Did she plan out the strategy for the fight? I seem to recall Roy being the one who set the strategy.

Granted, her contributions were unexpected by Greg, but I think credit has to go to Roy for setting the strategy on how to use Hilgya's high level clericing unless she came up with the plan?

[Shining Wrath]

11. Vaarsuvius is not Lawful.

Then halve it again for Will, and you're left with 5 damage.

6 points conceded.

Left to act: Belkar, Elan, Haley, Minrah, and Roy. I think the Order has already gained the numerical advantage as the spawn are going to be dead soon.

Guessing: Belkar rushes the spawn, Elan sings a helpful song, Haley engages the spell casting vampires with archery, Minrah heals V, and Roy of course goes straight for Durkon^T, unless he takes one round to use his Great Cleavage on the spawn.

[nocoolnamejim]

Roy of course goes straight for Durkon^T, unless he takes one round to use his Great Cleavage on the spawn.

Wonder if he still has that Girdle of Gender Change anywhere in his saddlebags.

[Shining Wrath]

Is it not evident that Hilgya is carrying them in this fight?

Not unless Hilgya is the one who suggested using V as bait, triggering the Symbols with summoned creatures, and so on. Making good use of a party's disparate abilities is the job of a leader; no Hilgya, and Roy would have had to do some other plan, but that's not to say there would have been no plan, and some other tricks might have worked - for example, Elan sends in an illusion of V with the real Blackwing to help sell the deal, the spawn attack the illusion, and then Roy charges the Spawn and puts Great Cleave to work. The real Vaarsuvius then enters the room and throws a spell at Durkon^T.

[Heksefatter]

Yes! I have been itching to see Durkula and his spawn getting their desserts for a while. And to see the Order score some victories.

[Trenelus]

Exquisite comic, exited to see what happens next.

Small art mistake: on the 3rd panel blue robed female vampire is missing her fangs, same thing again with her on the last panel of next page.

[LadyEowyn]

The Order's at least 50% more effective with Hilgya as a temporary member.

Sure, Roy gets credit for tactics, and surprise is always an advantage, but's it's still amazing how useful it is for the team to have a decently-optimized spellcaster.

[137beth]

I'm loving the Elan-Hilgya interactions more and more.

[Anonymouswizard]

I do like the callback to the 'a well thought out plan is the last thing he'd expect' line from Elan, where it turns out our bard was right.

I can see why. The Order has very rarely had a fight where they can decide on a strategy beforehand that isn't particularly easy. The first they didn't spend too much time planning (pretty much just 'what buffs'), the second was Greysky City (where Greg could easily have viewed Durkon as carrying the team against surprise druid), Azure city (different scale, Durkon didn't see the planning meeting), and then I forget any others until the pyramid ambush. Most of the fights seem to spring on them, and at that point it could be easy to overlook that Roy still comes up with plans quickly.

[xroads]

Awesome planning on the part of team OotS!

By the way, is Chaos Hammer in 5e somewhere? Because if so, my cleric is totally going to learn it. Might be a touch difficult justifying it since he's lawful. But hey, I'm sure there is a loophole somewhere.

[GrayDeath]

This comic, especially the punchline, comfirms me liking the humor in here almost too much.

Made me laugh far too liound, given local time was almost 10pm....^^

[Shining Wrath]

Durkon^T is learning the meaning of the phrase "scry and die" just now. And he didn't need to know about Hilgya to know that there were clerics around who might help the Order.

I wonder if Durkon managed to show all the episodes of the Order winging it to make Durkon^T think that that was their preferred strategy rather than one forced upon them by circumstance.

And I'm still expecting Durkon's plan to pay off any moment.

[Fyraltari]

Awesome!
Just what I needed after a lousy day!

I love how casually Ponchula backtalks her boss.

Also only six non-spellcasters? Ouch. Does that mean that green-bearded chair-carrier is some kind of wizard?

Seems Greg keeps severely underestimating the Order. Also seems like none or few of the vampires are Chaotic (and at least one is Lawful).

Yes, but can you tell us anything about them that differentiates them from every other dwarf?

Here? Maybe, but, even then, I doubt it. You see, Chaotics are the agents of change and evolution. There would have been none if it weren't for us. There was quite a bit. So there are clearly way more than just me.

Intelligent design is evolution too, you know.

[The_Weirdo]

Intelligent design is evolution too, you know.

I'd have to come up with a Dr. Seuss nursery rhyme three pages long to list to you the ways in which we are not having this conversation.

[AutomatedTeller]

Out of curiosity - why is it that V can't summon? I haven't played an edition since 2 and back then, only MU's could summon monsters, not clerics.

[ellindsey]

Out of curiosity - why is it that V can't summon? I haven't played an edition since 2 and back then, only MU's could summon monsters, not clerics.

Magic-users in 3.5 have to pick two spell schools to be banned, and can't cast anything from them. V has Conjuration as one of their banned schools, and all the good Summon spells are Conjuration. In fact, it's one of the most useful schools, and one that should really never be picked as a banned school.

[Kish]

Vaarsuvius has barred Conjuration. Specialist wizards were a thing in 2ed, though you couldn't choose your barred schools.

Clerics use magic. 1ed terminology was goofy.

Wizards do not have to specialize at all if they don't want to and thus don't need to choose barred schools unless they choose to specialize in one school, and in light of someone's recent insistence that this forum community doesn't push optimization, I appreciate the One True Wayism of the post directly preceding this one.

[schmunzel]

It took me a couple of readings to understand Haley's comment about getting their heads under. So focused on the D&D aspects of this strip that it took me a little while to think about other meanings of the word Limbo.

Giant, your one off jokes make my day!

Im sorry - I dont get it ... :(
can you explain ?? :)

sch

[The_Weirdo]

Magic-users in 3.5 have to pick two spell schools to be banned, and can't cast anything from them. V has Conjuration as one of their banned schools, and all the good Summon spells are Conjuration. In fact, it's one of the most useful schools, and one that should really never be picked as a banned school.

Specialized magic users, just to point out; generalist ones don't need to.

[In4Dimensions]

My favorite strip in a while! Nice work, Giant.