OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

[DaOldeWolf]

It is true that we have yet to see Kish and zimmerwald in the same place at the same time.

(It is also, however, true, that neither of them are wrong that Vaarsuvius has pretty decent odds of going to Hell at some point in this story)

But V has already gone to hell. And he is bound by his contract to go there two more times.

[DaggerPen]

Oh my god, I love the effects on Chaos Hammer. And the punchline had me in stitches! With how much Durkon sticks to supporting roles in combat, it's easy to forget how terrifyingly powerful a cleric of their level can be, and this is a great reminder.

[Traab]

Sorry if this was covered, but why didnt varsuvius use one of her own aoe attacks? I mean, she almost has to have at least one available. Now the vamp spawn are all knocked back. Drop a /insert fire spell that hits everything within 30 feet, then have their secret high level cleric hammer them. Double the whump, double the owie.

[Kish]

Sorry if this was covered, but why didnt varsuvius use one of her own aoe attacks? I mean, she almost has to have at least one available. Now the vamp spawn are all knocked back. Drop a /insert fire spell that hits everything within 30 feet, then have their secret high level cleric hammer them. Double the whump, double the owie.

One standard action to a round, and this round's was Stoneskin.

[Traab]

One standard action to a round, and this round's was Stoneskin.

Oh dang, thats right, I wasnt paying close attention. Seems sorta silly to cast that then instead of say, a few minutes ago. Ah well, still an effective start to the battle. traps are blown, spawn are disoriented, somewhat damaged, and in a few cases debilitated.

[137beth]

It took me a couple of readings to understand Haley's comment about getting their heads under. So focused on the D&D aspects of this strip that it took me a little while to think about other meanings of the word Limbo.

Giant, your one off jokes make my day!

Thanks for the hint--I didn't get it until I read your comment

[Canisius]

Aw, look, you can see the gears in the vampire's head turning as he tries to figure out how this is happening. Silly villain, don't you know what happens to plans when the Order of the Stick is around?

Speaking of plans, I think Hilgya is the second biggest threat to the Order's plans (after the vampires). She's almost certainly not going to just let Durkon be resurrected and go on his merry world-saving way; not when she came all this way to murder him. The Order should make as much use of Hilgya's remaining spells as possible. If she runs out of them, she'll be much less of a threat to Durkon and the Order after the vampire is defeated.

Hey, you're getting ahead to strips coming out in 2021! I'm waiting to see what happens in the next few ones.

My prediction:

Spoiler

Show

The Order has an early win against the vampires. It looks like Greg will be taken down. Then there's an amazing reversal, possibly involving Xykon or some other DEMs like Hilgya appearing, or Elan doing something stupid. I don't think Belkar bites it just yet, but that could be a curveball.

[ReturnOfTheKing]

It's all going so well! I'm dreading the inevitable rug pull

[Sloanzilla]

Well, sending your best offensive weapon first into a room when that room includes several dispel magic casters (who can strip away all of that weapon's defenses) is a bit risky.

I'm enjoying this part of the plot. Since I keep hoping Belkar will just qualify for chaotic neutral before dying, I'm hoping we will see the chaos giraffes during his final cutscene in Limbo.

[Peelee]

Well, the fact that he was responsible for telling the dwarves about the wager with Hel, and then, in her words, engineering their lawful and honor-based society, is at least strong evidence towards his being lawful himself.

Strong evidence towards Good, IMO, not Lawful.

[8BitNinja]

Durkula obviously plans according to the party I'm in

[DaggerPen]

So do you win if this joke goes over your head?

Shoutout to this for making me laugh.

Also, not to start another alignment debate, but do we know for sure that Blackwing is Neutral? Or are we just assuming that because V is? Because honestly, Blackwing being Chaotic does not seem in the slightest bit unbelievable to me if he isn't bound to V's alignment somehow.

[TRH]

Strong evidence towards Good, IMO, not Lawful.

I don't see why, when promoting law, more than good, seems to be the point. The dwarven ideal is to die with honor, not to die having done good works.

[godsflunky]

It's all going so well! I'm dreading the inevitable rug pull

As am I, although we don't know the full details of the Order's plan, so according to Law of Narrative I'm hopeful.

Aw, look, you can see the gears in the vampire's head turning as he tries to figure out how this is happening. Silly villain, don't you know what happens to plans when the Order of the Stick is around?

Speaking of plans, I think Hilgya is the second biggest threat to the Order's plans (after the vampires). She's almost certainly not going to just let Durkon be resurrected and go on his merry world-saving way; not when she came all this way to murder him. The Order should make as much use of Hilgya's remaining spells as possible. If she runs out of them, she'll be much less of a threat to Durkon and the Order after the vampire is defeated.

I long ago gave up trying to predict the Giant (Reason #4912.5 for doing so: Chaos Giraffes) but it does occur to me that if Hilgya tries to outright destroy Durkon (with or without asterisk) or keep him from being rezzed, Belkar might be the only member of the party with the guts, evilness, and self-sacrificial motivation to try to take her out, since she's been so dang helpful everyone else would hesitate. And there would be a certain obvious beauty in Belkar and Durkon both sacrificing themselves for each other, separated by some weeks.

If that plays out, it would basically guarantee that Durkon (the real one) would be resurrected, since I don't see Rich introducing Kudzu just to orphan him. That would, in turn, place him in a great character-forming moment (i.e., a painful one) by bringing him back to life in his homeland with a son on one hand, and the desire to support his friends by going to go save the world on the other. Naturally he'd choose the latter, 'cause: pain.

But now I'm so far out on a limb, I'm already falling, so I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

[Peelee]

I don't see why, when promoting law, more than good, seems to be the point. The dwarven ideal is to die with honor, not to die having done good works.

Thor saves the dwarves from going to Hel (Good), and cleans up on the bet in the process. If Haley was in Thor's place, good money says she'd also tell the dwarves first thing and construct a system by which the could get out of it. Including gaming the rules so much that fighting trees and dying of cirrhosis count as honorable.

[StreamOfTheSky]

That was cool and all, but I really would've loved to see a Greater Fireburst from V. What better time than then?

Best part was the Limbo joke.

Also, I have a strong dislike (of the "go away" kind, not the "great compelling villain" kind) towards Durkula, so if it turns out he's the unwitting crash test dummy to demonstrate the OotS finally has their **** together and is ready for the final battle w/ Xykon, I'll be quite pleased that he ended up just being a mook that got curb stomped.
Definitely hope Belkar gets a chance to shine here after being defeated/humiliated each prior encounter with Durkula.

[WindStruck]

This fight is going pretty easy so far... I think the real fight will be at the point when Roy says, "Ok, now we can resurrect Durkon."

[Lethologica]

I don't see why, when promoting law, more than good, seems to be the point. The dwarven ideal is to die with honor, not to die having done good works.

Thor is arguably just trying to keeps souls out of Hel's grasp under conditions not of his own choosing. And we don't know that Thor was responsible for how the dwarves built their society to solve the problem.

But if I'm being honest, I think those are nitpicky arguments and the weight of evidence is still strongly for Thor being LG.

[KorvinStarmast]

This fight is going pretty easy so far... I think the real fight will be at the point when Roy says, "Ok, now we can resurrect Durkon."

Yeah.

About the strip:
1. Yay, a D&D strip.

2. Hilgya and her chaos giraffes demonstrate how you can counter a spell¹ without using counterspell.

3. Limbo joke was good.

¹(the glyph/symbols that went off)

[gerryq]

"Your lives have been tragically cut short before you could be merchandised"!

Aw, let's not sell the readership short on what they'll buy!

These could end up being the most popular Order Of The Stick plushies.

[Corian]

They discussed using it here.

Ah! thank you.

[gerryq]

Seems Greg keeps severely underestimating the Order. Also seems like none or few of the vampires are Chaotic (and at least one is Lawful).

They are vampires made from clerics - I don't know how much that counts in OOTS universe.

[Fish]

Thor saves the dwarves from going to Hel (Good), and cleans up on the bet in the process. If Haley was in Thor's place, good money says she'd also tell the dwarves first thing and construct a system by which the could get out of it. Including gaming the rules so much that fighting trees and dying of cirrhosis count as honorable.

Who's for a thread debating whether Thor is Chaotic Evil? Anyone? Anyone?

[Baphomet]

Prediction: Durkon^T or one of his spellcasting minions is going to try Dispel Magic on Vaarsuvius - buffed against mind control, level drain, Bear's Endurance, Stoneskin - just too many buffs. Whereupon we learn that V has Bloodfeast the Extreminator in a pocket of their robe. And then Bloodfeast will proceed to further T-Rex Durkon^T's plans. If memory serves, Bloodfeast would also soak up one casting of Dispel Magic and protect V a little longer.

EDIT: (Greater) Dispel Magic targets a creature, and Bloodfeast wouldn't be a target simply by being in V's pocket - unless Rule of Funny triumphs.

If we assume Miron was at least CL 21 when he Baleful Polymorphed Bloodfeast (which seems likely), Dispel Magic wouldn't work at all, and whoever casts Greater Dispel Magic needs to be at least CL 11 to even have a chance to succeed with a nat 20 on the dispel check. Even Greg would need to roll, what, 16 or higher? 17? I haven't looked at the class and level geekery thread recently.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, sending your best offensive weapon first into a room when that room includes several dispel magic casters (who can strip away all of that weapon's defenses) is a bit risky.

I'm enjoying this part of the plot. Since I keep hoping Belkar will just qualify for chaotic neutral before dying, I'm hoping we will see the chaos giraffes during his final cutscene in Limbo.

Chaos giraffes? Nonono, you don't repeat jokes.

We'll get prismatic zebras instead.

[Sloanzilla]

I wish there was some way to Photoshop a flumph falling on top of the "you don't repeat jokes" line.

[Rockphed]

I long ago gave up trying to predict the Giant (Reason #4912.5 for doing so: Chaos Giraffes) but it does occur to me that if Hilgya tries to outright destroy Durkon (with or without asterisk) or keep him from being rezzed, Belkar might be the only member of the party with the guts, evilness, and self-sacrificial motivation to try to take her out, since she's been so dang helpful everyone else would hesitate. And there would be a certain obvious beauty in Belkar and Durkon both sacrificing themselves for each other, separated by some weeks.

If that plays out, it would basically guarantee that Durkon (the real one) would be resurrected, since I don't see Rich introducing Kudzu just to orphan him. That would, in turn, place him in a great character-forming moment (i.e., a painful one) by bringing him back to life in his homeland with a son on one hand, and the desire to support his friends by going to go save the world on the other. Naturally he'd choose the latter, 'cause: pain.

But now I'm so far out on a limb, I'm already falling, so I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

We know that there are several bits of information that Durkon(original or imitation) doesn't know.

1. He was sent a letter that he could come home.
2. He was sent away from the Dwarven lands because of a cryptic prophecy from Odin that the next time he came home he would bring death and destruction.
3. He has a son whose other parent is Hilgya.
4. Hilgya got divorced.

I imagine that these 4 things could result in imitation Durkon having significantly less control over Durkon's corpse than he expects.

[Alex Warlorn]

And this is what's known as build up and pay off. After years of the heroes being strung along or having things blow up in their faces, we get the pay off of seeing the villains on the receiving end of just how clever this band of misfits can be!

[Ikuryo]

Sorry if this was covered, but why didnt varsuvius use one of her own aoe attacks? I mean, she almost has to have at least one available. Now the vamp spawn are all knocked back. Drop a /insert fire spell that hits everything within 30 feet, then have their secret high level cleric hammer them. Double the whump, double the owie.

Other reasons include the fact that before they entered the room the spawn were spread out, you don't fireball the place you are standing (blast radius is most of the room) without protection from fire and V has not had time to pick up or craft anything like that yet.

Would expect them to do so in the future though, if they get the chance, as the lich demonstrated why being immune to your own AoE attacks is generally a good idea.

[Psychronia]

Aww yeah. Let's keep this momentum going and totally ruin Durkula's night!

A shame he lost evil night out privileges, but that's a fair consequence for the many bad calls he's made.