OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey_Wolf_c]

so ive always wondered why durkon cant break free from gregs control is there some sort of will save he could make? when Durkon sees Hilgya and Kudzu what is his reaction going to be maybe give him a circumstantial bonus to break gregs concentration and cause him to falter as roy rushes him? totally just speculating here i might sounds like an Elan right now but im curious.

By RAW, there is absolutely nothing Durkon can do to become free, except wait for someone else to destroy the vampire.

I doubt that Durkon's contribution to Greg's fall will involve any such shenanigans, either, since the foreshadowing suggests he will instead exploit Greg's inability to connect memories together.

GW

[Snails]

Strangely enough, Chaos Hammer it better than Word of Chaos against Lawful Vampires, because you can Slow a Vampire but undead cannot by Confused or Stunned. And Chaos Hammer is certain damage.

I guess V just soaks it up. But V is likely to make the Save, and even on a failure Slow hardly matters to a spellcaster who has sufficient meatshields ready to assist.

Getting Greg to targeted Dispel V counts as a tactical victory, regardless of the net effect -- there are far worse things that a high level caster might accomplish with an action. The other spellcasters would probably be throwing their actions away, going head to head with V's caster level.

[Anarion]

I'm enjoying the fact that chaos is represented by bright, rainbow colors. Also, watching the Order be competent, that's pretty cool.

[Snails]

I love the dig against Greg.

Hey, if your host was a total idiot, you are not cool enough to hang with me.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Strangely enough, Chaos Hammer it better than Word of Chaos against Lawful Vampires, because you can Slow a Vampire but undead cannot by Confused or Stunned. And Chaos Hammer is certain damage.

I guess V just soaks it up. But V is likely to make the Save, and even on a failure Slow hardly matters to a spellcaster who has sufficient meatshields ready to assist.

Getting Greg to targeted Dispel V counts as a tactical victory, regardless of the net effect -- there are far worse things that a high level caster might accomplish with an action. The other spellcasters would probably be throwing their actions away, going head to head with V's caster level.

V's Neutral, not Lawful, and thus is not subject to being Slowed.

[Shining Wrath]

Strangely enough, Chaos Hammer it better than Word of Chaos against Lawful Vampires, because you can Slow a Vampire but undead cannot by Confused or Stunned. And Chaos Hammer is certain damage.

I guess V just soaks it up. But V is likely to make the Save, and even on a failure Slow hardly matters to a spellcaster who has sufficient meatshields ready to assist.

Getting Greg to targeted Dispel V counts as a tactical victory, regardless of the net effect -- there are far worse things that a high level caster might accomplish with an action. The other spellcasters would probably be throwing their actions away, going head to head with V's caster level.

I think that since V is not Lawful they cannot be slowed; the Chaos Hammer does half damage to neutrals, and no possibility of being slowed. Half damage is automatic, and a Will Save for half again of that, so V probably took about 6 points. The spawn, who all seem to be Lawful and to have missed their saves, are slowed and down ~23 (5d8) HP. A base vampire spawn has 4d12 + 3 (29) hit points, so they are nearly dead and slowed, and several members of the Order get to act before they will. Unless one of the vampire clerics helps them somehow, they are pretty much out of the fight.

[Keltest]

I'm enjoying the fact that chaos is represented by bright, rainbow colors. Also, watching the Order be competent, that's pretty cool.

Intriguingly, that's actually the description for the spell effect in the SRD. Id say Rich did it pretty darn well.

[SilverCacaobean]

Everyone suggesting tactics should keep something in mind; Any tactical plan that depends on V is vulnerable because of the deal with the IFCC. Except the one they went with, because they know V is invulnerable if the IFCC intervenes, so V could still aggro the attack.

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

I'm enjoying the fact that chaos is represented by bright, rainbow colors.

Hey, does that mean Law is represented by shades of gray?

[Snails]

Hey, does that mean Law is represented by shades of gray?

Black and White. Obviously.

[Peelee]

Please note the word "joke" (about a character apparently charging into disaster, except that it was actually planned), versus academic criticism. If you're not aware, it's been confirmed that the Leeroy Jenkins video was a staged skit.

(And yes, I just dissected the frog. May it rest in pieces.)

I am fully aware. Not too concerned about the frog when it was dead to start with.

[arimareiji]

I am fully aware. Not too concerned about the frog when it was dead to start with.

Perhaps one day I'll be wise enough to understand how to derive my own happiness from pissing on other people's shoes. For today, I'll just have to smh.

[GreatWyrmGold]

When the situation gets serious, the Order starts taking things seriously. Why is this such a surprise, HPoH?

[Peelee]

Perhaps one day I'll be wise enough to understand how to derive my own happiness from pissing on other people's shoes. For today, I'll just have to smh.

They can't all be winners. I've had more than a few duds myself, I just like to know what doesn't work so I can tweak accordingly. I could have phrased it much better though. I apologize for that.

[Elenna]

Everyone suggesting tactics should keep something in mind; Any tactical plan that depends on V is vulnerable because of the deal with the IFCC. Except the one they went with, because they know V is invulnerable if the IFCC intervenes, so V could still aggro the attack.

There remains the question of whether the IFCC even wants to stop the Order here. Depending on what their plan is, they could be rooting for the OoTS to succeed so the world doesn't get destroyed, in which case they probably wouldn't pull V out here. Of course, the Order has even less idea what the IFCC's plan is than we do, so they really can't count on that.

So basically, this post was entirely pointless and really just agreed with yours. Sorry?

[KorvinStarmast]

Depending on what their plan is, they could be rooting for the OoTS to succeed so the world doesn't get destroyed, in which case they probably wouldn't pull V out here.

As their goals align with OoTS in one particular -- the world is not destroyed -- pulling V out will likely be delayed until later in this book. The question is, how upset would they be if Xykon wins and gets control of the gate? They seemed to be OK with Tarquin getting ahold of the gate, based when they pulled V out the first time.
Hmm
Book V: pull V out once.
Book VI: pull V a second time
Book VII: pull V out the final time.

Yeah, that's a little meta-thinking, but seems to fit Rich's general "actions have consequences" theme that has run through this comic pretty faithfully from the beginning.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm enjoying the fact that chaos is represented by bright, rainbow colors.

That's how chaos hammer is described in the SRD, funnily enough.

(Wow, ninja'd, almost word for word!)

I confess a guilty part of me wishes to see Hilgya and Vaarsuvius light up the night sky with rainbow spells.

[Chei]

As their goals align with OoTS in one particular -- the world is not destroyed -- pulling V out will likely be delayed until later in this book. The question is, how upset would they be if Xykon wins and gets control of the gate? They seemed to be OK with Tarquin getting ahold of the gate, based when they pulled V out the first time.

I don't think this is quite right. The fiends stopped V from stopping Roy from destroying the Gate. That seemed to be their immediate goal based on the panels.

Tarquin was never realistically going to have the Gate - Xykon appeared literally just in time to eat the explosion, which means he was on the scene before Tarquin, who was marshaling his army. Xykon was the more immediate threat to the Gate, and I assume the fiends wanted the Gate destroyed so that Xykon couldn't have it.

[Shining Wrath]

As their goals align with OoTS in one particular -- the world is not destroyed -- pulling V out will likely be delayed until later in this book. The question is, how upset would they be if Xykon wins and gets control of the gate? They seemed to be OK with Tarquin getting ahold of the gate, based when they pulled V out the first time.
Hmm
Book V: pull V out once.
Book VI: pull V a second time
Book VII: pull V out the final time.

Yeah, that's a little meta-thinking, but seems to fit Rich's general "actions have consequences" theme that has run through this comic pretty faithfully from the beginning.

One soul is good; two, is better. Pull V, force Order to retreat, get Roy desperate enough to surrender his soul in order to stop Team Vampire.

[zimmerwald1915]

One soul is good; two, is better. Pull V, force Order to retreat, get Roy desperate enough to surrender his soul in order to stop Team Vampire.

We already have one villain massively failing to take the measure of Roy this book. We don't need another.

[arimareiji]

They can't all be winners. I've had more than a few duds myself, I just like to know what doesn't work so I can tweak accordingly. I could have phrased it much better though. I apologize for that.

You'll make a fine PR executive.

[Peelee]

Hey, does that mean Law is represented by shades of gray?

Dunno, but grey'd certainly my magic aura color, since it's my favorite color.

[137beth]

I just noticed the expression on V's face in the third-to-last panel. It's a nice touch; it shows V reacting to damage, just presumably less than the vampires took.

[martianmister]

That's how chaos hammer is described in the SRD, funnily enough.

In colour symbolism rainbow is always a symbol of chaos while gray is the colour of order.

[Particle_Man]

I imagine that most dwarf clerics of Thor are lawful for the same reason that most dwarves are lawful - in order to be honourable so as to die an honourable death so as to avoid Hel. Loki's clerics (and presumably followers) could be the only loophole here, and Hel didn't seem to have many souls to torment.

This is independent of whether Thor himself is lawful.

[Shining Wrath]

We already have one villain massively failing to take the measure of Roy this book. We don't need another.

If someone could make a plausible case to Roy that the world would be destroyed if he did not obtain the aid of the IFCC, I think he'd think seriously about their offer.

[Keltest]

If someone could make a plausible case to Roy that the world would be destroyed if he did not obtain the aid of the IFCC, I think he'd think seriously about their offer.

That strikes me as rather tautological. "If somebody could convince Roy to do it, he would seriously consider doing it." sort of thing.

[zimmerwald1915]

If someone could make a plausible case to Roy that the world would be destroyed if he did not obtain the aid of the IFCC, I think he'd think seriously about their offer.

Has not Vaarsuvius already told Roy that her soul was taken precisely to make sure Roy destroyed Girard's Gate? How can any plausible case be made that the IFCC is at all interested in saving the world, given that information?

[Reboot]

Hey, does that mean Law is represented by shades of gray?

The Law counterpart to Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath, is "a three-dimensional grid of energy".

[jokem]

I have not read all the pages on this, but I thought Vampires were Chaotic Evil, and thus would not worry about Chaos Hammer.

V and the familiar might have gotten the benefit of an Aid spell, to help counter the Chaos Hammer effect.