Any love for BECMI?

[warriorneedsfoo]

With all the versions of D&D out there, is there anyone out there under 40 that plays the old school rules? I'm running a BECMI game with a goal to run Red Arrow Black Shield shield as the campaign climax, and I was wondering if there was anyone out there who was working on something similar.

[FaerieGodfather]

Close? I am a huge fan of Rules Cyclopedia.

[Roland St. Jude]

With all the versions of D&D out there, is there anyone out there under 40 that plays the old school rules?

Just a word of advice, when trying to drum up conversation about a less than popular topic, maybe don't be needlessly exclusionary?

[MeeposFire]

I love the Rules Cyclopedia myself and I know that is a variation of those rules so yeah. I do make a bunch of changes due to moving on to other versions and I found myself wanting to go back and use many of the older rules but not wanting some of the old conceits (such as different races being their own class). I also made some changes to classes that I thought needed some help such as the thief class. Concept is fun but it is rather lacking on the whole in those rules.

[warriorneedsfoo]

Just a word of advice, when trying to drum up conversation about a less than popular topic, maybe don't be needlessly exclusionary?

If you found the question exclusionary and were annoyed by it, I apologize. Please allow me to elaborate on the context of my question so that you can understand where I'm coming from.

The original BECMI rules were introduced to most D&D gamers with the Red box set in '83. There were several versions of that game printed before and after culminating in the Rules Cyclopedia which was published in '91. The top of the bell curve for the age of people playing Dungeons and Dragons in the Eighties is junior high, which is about 12 to 13 years old on average. Although there exceptions, and this is an average based on my own experience and not a statistical model or study, but this tells me that the most common age cohort of players that started playing Basic D&D in the 80's are currently in their mid forties. By the time younger gamers were being introduced to the hobby, there were other versions of the game in publication, Advanced D&D, 2nd edition, and other games like Rifts were rising in popularity. So for someone to be younger than 40 who is familiar and enjoys the old BECMI rules would be an indication of not only the longevity of the popularity of the rules in question, but their replies would also give a clue as to the sort of nostalgia factor involved in the appreciation of the game.

These two bits of information is what I was interested in hearing and talking about in the context of the game that I am currently playing as I am currently running a game where there are several players in their 20s and tease me for being an old man playing an old game and 'wouldn't it be nice if we all just played 5th edition like the rest of the D&D gamers out there'. There was no intention of excluding those older than 40 from participating in the conversation, and I don't think there was, because I think that those in their 40s would understand where I was coming from intuitively.

Thank you for your concern about me properly "drumming up conversation about a less then popular topic".

[warriorneedsfoo]

I love the Rules Cyclopedia myself and I know that is a variation of those rules so yeah. I do make a bunch of changes due to moving on to other versions and I found myself wanting to go back and use many of the older rules but not wanting some of the old conceits (such as different races being their own class). I also made some changes to classes that I thought needed some help such as the thief class. Concept is fun but it is rather lacking on the whole in those rules.

I know the rules are limited, but since my games tend to be more like improv classes then rule crunching miniature game, I like to go with rules that are simple, and so ingrained that I don't need to look at the books. I have gotten around a lot of things by skinning the characters. For example, the player who wanted to play a half-orc barbarian, is playing a fighter class with a high strength, and the player who wanted to play a half-elf sorcerer, is playing a Magic-User.

I like the path to Immortality that the game provides as part of the character path, have you ever managed to have a game start there or get that far? If so, how did it go?

[warriorneedsfoo]

Close? I am a huge fan of Rules Cyclopedia.

Ever play the old BECMI adventure path? Master of the Desert Nomads through to Red Arrow Black Shield?

Spoiler: Adventures X4 X5 & X10

Show

If you read the adventures, it has a bit of a racist anti-Muslim flavor to it, with the big bad being a stand-in for Ayatollah Khomeini. Did you make any adjustments to the character of the story, or did you play it strait out of the module?

[FaerieGodfather]

Cannot help you. The only adventure module I've ever run was The Last Warhulk for Star*Drive.

[Anonymouswizard]

With all the versions of D&D out there, is there anyone out there under 40 that plays the old school rules? I'm running a BECMI game with a goal to run Red Arrow Black Shield shield as the campaign climax, and I was wondering if there was anyone out there who was working on something similar.

I would, if my dad hadn't thrown out his copies of BECM (I don't think he had Immortals) and Hollow World. As it is, when I want to run D&D these days I run either Basic Fantasy or Lamentations of the Flame Princess half of the time, which are semi-faithful BECM retroclones.

I like a lot of BECM, I just don't think I'll actually use it due to descending AC confusing a lot of people I play with. I'm planning to get my hands on a physical copy of Basic Fantasy relatively soon though, it's cheap and clears up most of the things people have trouble with in BECM. I would get the Rules Cyclopedia as well, but that's much more expensive than ~£5 (~£7 if we include P&P).

[BWR]

Ever play the old BECMI adventure path? Master of the Desert Nomads through to Red Arrow Black Shield?

Adventures X4 X5 & X10
If you read the adventures, it has a bit of a racist anti-Muslim flavor to it, with the big bad being a stand-in for Ayatollah Khomeini. Did you make any adjustments to the character of the story, or did you play it strait out of the module?

I just skimmed through them to confirm this but I didn't really get any anti-Muslim feel from it. The Mystaran analogue of pretty much anything Islamic is Arabic in flavor and is in Ylarum, quite far off from what is presented in Hule. The culture of Hule could be anywhere with an evil theocracy slapped on top of it. Most of the desert nomads are from Sind, which is MIndia, and sure, they have "similar" culture to the Ylari but I get the feeling that's more from being desert dwellers than MMuslims. I can see why Khomeini Iran springs to mind, though, given that picture.

I am planning on running these adventures some time in the future. I just have to get my current batch of PCs to Immortality first, so my players can play the first worshippers of the new gods. So, in a year or two, maybe.

[warriorneedsfoo]

I like a lot of BECM, I just don't think I'll actually use it due to descending AC confusing a lot of people I play with. I'm planning to get my hands on a physical copy of Basic Fantasy relatively soon though, it's cheap and clears up most of the things people have trouble with in BECM. I would get the Rules Cyclopedia as well, but that's much more expensive than ~£5 (~£7 if we include P&P).

I grew up with descending AC and THACO calculations are second nature to me, but I totally get where you are coming from. I've seen Basic Fantasy, I like how simple it is.

[Anonymouswizard]

I grew up with descending AC and THACO calculations are second nature to me, but I totally get where you are coming from. I've seen Basic Fantasy, I like how simple it is.

Oh, I can do THAC0 calculations in my head, despite having first played 2e about three/four years ago, and my first sessions were good old red box (although I'll note that my dad did all the to-hit calculations, boo). It's a lot of other people I know who have trouble with it, as well as the concept of d20+modifiers (seriously, asking who to roll three times a session?).

[LibraryOgre]

I've got an old hardcover Rules Cyclopedia, but I've never played it. Looks sweet, but I have far too few gaming opportunities these days.

[BWR]

All they way to Immortality? Wow. How long has that game been going on?

Since 2012, though we've had a total of about a year of other games as short breaks. They are now mostly 20th level (one made it yesterday, one left some time in May). I should have noted that we use Pathfinder instead of BECMI/RC, but the actual stuff you have to go through to ascend is either system neutral or easy to adjust.

[RazorChain]

I played lot of BECMI 30 years ago then I moved on to AD&D 2nd Edition. The funny thing is that I had much more fun playing in Mystara than in Forgotten Realms. Even though my group bought Rules Cyclopedia we never came back to BECMI.

So no love here Not anymore at least

[warriorneedsfoo]

Since 2012, though we've had a total of about a year of other games as short breaks. They are now mostly 20th level (one made it yesterday, one left some time in May). I should have noted that we use Pathfinder instead of BECMI/RC, but the actual stuff you have to go through to ascend is either system neutral or easy to adjust.

I play Pathfinder sometimes, but I find the rule system to be unnecessarily complicated. When I'm in the mood for a complicated system, I'll break out a board game or a miniatures game. :)

[CE DM]

I do...but I'm over 40

The RC really ought count (it is almost exactly the same)

Moldvay/Cook B/X is the best, though

[warriorneedsfoo]

I do...but I'm over 40

The RC really ought count (it is almost exactly the same)

Moldvay/Cook B/X is the best, though

The art in those books really influenced me. It's cool to hear there are still a few old-school folks that use those rules, or at least the Rules Cyclopedia's version of them.

I'm hoping to be able to get my comic through the main Mystara adventures, but I think I'll be lucky if I finish the Keep on the Borderlands.

[lylsyly]

Admittedly,I am over 40 (as are the other 5 members of my group) but we have a BECMI campaign that as been running for about 18 years (weekly sessions). The easier rules are what we like about it. Plus, we only run from Basic thru Companion, then we reset.

[Nifft]

I do...but I'm over 40

I fear this thread isn't for fossils like us.

[2D8HP]

I fear this thread isn't for fossils like us.

Yeah, I loved TSR D&D, but I'm almost 50 years old, and the last time I got to play it was nearly a year and a half ago, and the previous time was more than a decade before that.

I make do by playing some 5e and bellyaching about it.

[Cluedrew]

To 2D8HP: Speaking of which, why is there no gray hair in your avatar? I mean not to make you feel old (I mean I have no idea what your actual hair colour is) but being the resident expert on extremely old things is pretty much your calling card. You know the: "I remember when they started calling them role-playing games!" moments. Other that I think it is great.

... Right main topic... I have never played BECMI... sorry.

[2D8HP]

To 2D8HP: Speaking of which, why is there no gray hair in your avatar? I mean not to make you feel old (I mean I have no idea what your actual hair colour is) but being the resident expert on extremely old things is pretty much your calling card. You know the: "I remember when they started calling them role-playing games!" moments. Other that I think it is great.

... Right main topic... I have never played BECMI... sorry.

To: Cluedrew, Ha!

My head hair is still mostly dark brown (knock on wood), but my beard is pretty much grey, I also show more of an ale belly than my Avatar as well.
I'm working on it okay!

Anyway, for various reasons I think I now prefer WD&D at first level, but I still like TD&D better at high levels, but really as much fun as edition wars are, it's still pretty much the same hobby.

[Anonymouswizard]

The easier rules are what we like about it. Plus, we only run from Basic thru Companion, then we reset.

As somebody who likes complex rulesets, I can day that a game being simple/easy is a very good thing. In general the more readily a person can pick up how to play the game the more fun we can have improvising edge cases. It's one of the reasons I like GURPS, it gets complicated but all players need to learn is '3d6 under skill or attribute' (and with most groups I'd run an exclusively wildcard skills game to make character generation easier).

So yeah, while I'd love to run Anima: Beyond Fantasy BECM beats it on ease of rules, and stuff like GURPS on time to make a character. I still insist that it's easier to learn than 5e.

[lylsyly]

Oh, we like complex too. We play 4 games a week. Currently running is the BECMI Campaign, A Classic Traveller Game (also long running) and two Low to mid Opti 3.5 Campaigns. The easier games (CT is easy too) give us a welcome break from the complexities of 3.5.

[Psikerlord]

I play Pathfinder sometimes, but I find the rule system to be unnecessarily complicated. When I'm in the mood for a complicated system, I'll break out a board game or a miniatures game. :)

haha, I break out the boardgames for simplicity

[Tipsy_Pooka]

As a teenager in the early 90s, the RC was my introduction to TTRPGs. My original, very worn, copy of this book is a prized posession of mine. In addition, I still own original paperback copies of every gazetter, creature crucible, Hollow World, WOTI, Champions of Mystara...etc

While I left the original ruleset for 2e and finally 3.5e, I NEVER left my love for the world of Mystara. There are still mechanics from RC that I port to 3.5 (War Machine and Dominion rules). Every campaign I have ever run has either been in Mystara or homebrewed. The imitation of RW cultures makes introduction to TRPGs incredibly easy for new players (as I almost always DM'd games for people who have never touched a TTRPG before).

Spoiler: Adventures X4 X5 & X10

Show

If you read the adventures, it has a bit of a racist anti-Muslim flavor to it, with the big bad being a stand-in for Ayatollah Khomeini. Did you make any adjustments to the character of the story, or did you play it strait out of the module?

You mean, like how almost EVERY culture based on the RW was written (Ahem, I'm looking at you "stereotypical ALL Asians are the same trope" Ochalea)?

Oh yeah, OP question... I would LOVE to run some kind of Red Arrow, Black Shield in a 3.5 game