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2018-04-24, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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If I wanted to get rid of short resting
What would be the best way? I mean completely excise the concept of a "short rest" and return the game to a long rest format, what would I have to do to make that work on a functional level (not looking for perfect balance here).
I came up with two main ideas, either make all abilities long rest based or make all normally "short rest" abilities a 1/per encounter type deal.
Any other ideas?
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2018-04-24, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
That seems like a pretty extensive rewrite. Might be easier to just ban monk and warlock and be done with it. Then let people burn hit dice between combats.
Last edited by Armored Walrus; 2018-04-24 at 03:40 PM.
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2018-04-24, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I have done this and it is successful.
The game assumes around 2 short rests a long rest.
So basically a monk at say 6th level, starts the day with 6 ki, short rests and 6 more ki, and short rest and 6 more ki.
So just give him 6x3, or 18 ki per long rest.
It works for any short rest ability.
Now for hit dice, I just give max hp.
It works for warlock and battlemasters as well and channel divinity
Give it a try
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2018-04-24, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
None of your players minded the warlock running around with 6 5th level spell slots at level 9 when all the other casters only had 1?
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2018-04-24, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I mean, this is literally what the game already does. They don't have any lower level spells, so it evens out. It makes them really bursty if you only throw one combat a day, but if you're doing that, sorcerers and paladins are already breaking the game.
I'm a big fan of this method.
As to hit dice, just use the healing surge rules.Last edited by strangebloke; 2018-04-24 at 03:56 PM.
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2018-04-24, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Vinland
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2018-04-24, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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2018-04-24, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
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- United States
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2018-04-24, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I don't think it's literally what the game already does at all. Doling out the slots 2 at a time over the course of the day creates uncertainty; Will the party get a short rest before the next fight? Is it worth burning a slot on this fight? Plus there are durations that expire between rests, etc. Knowing that I have 6 slots to use removes a lot of the finesse/agonizing involved in playing a warlock. It's a completely different class if you run it this way, IMO. In flavor if not in mathematical balance. Although I would wager that a certain amount of spell slot waste is calculated into the balance math as well. I've seen warlocks not throw a spell at all over two combats because they didn't want to waste them, only to have the party short rest after the second one.
At any rate, I was asking the guy that says he's already run a game this way. He gave a monk as an example, but didn't mention warlock.
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2018-04-24, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Because I can save them all for the BBEG and cast Hold Monster 6 times if I need to in order to make it stick?
Or, conversely, because with short rest rules I could cast Scrying essentially as many times as I want in a day when I know I'm safe in my stronghold, and just short rest to get them back, but under your rules there's no way for me to recover those slots once they're gone.
I mean, you can do it if you want, but you asked for feedback on the idea. These are problems I think you'd run into in actual play. Plus probably ten more that I can't anticipate.
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2018-04-24, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
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2018-04-24, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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2018-04-24, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Ok, so give the Warlock regular full-caster slots instead if you don't like the multiply by 3 rule.
3x is the mathematical balance. If you don't like these options you're gonna have to start making up something brand new. Just make sure they get an equivalent number of spellpoints per day to what they've got now.Last edited by rbstr; 2018-04-24 at 04:23 PM.
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2018-04-24, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
The sorcerer has the option to not convert things. They could just keep their many other castings a day, they do not HAVE to convert them. A warlock never has the option to use lower level slots for utility, because they don't have them.
Great when you need to cast a 5th level fireball, garbage when you need to cast shield.
Just give warlocks normal casting progression.
Throw their short rest mechanics out.
Works fine.
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2018-04-24, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-04-24, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
It doesn't matter what I like; I'm not the OP. :P
Just giving OP feedback on what I think are potential pitfalls of his plan. IME messing with the base rules results in four or five unforeseen consequences for every one change made. For this particular one, warlock seems like it would be a pain point.
As for advice to the OP, I'd say if you want to try it, it seems a simple enough change on the surface. Go run a game with it and see what happens. Maybe no player will take a warlock and this discussion will be moot. ;)
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2018-04-24, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Triple any short rest features and abilities, implement some rule on how PCs can burn hit die and you’re pretty much gold. You may have to do a quick check over some things like inspiring leader but otherwise wont take much work.
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2018-04-24, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-04-26, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I think it would help to know why exactly you want to remove short rests from the game. Especially cause I see no actual reason to other than wanting it to be like in previous editions.
Last edited by nothinglord; 2018-04-26 at 05:02 AM.
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2018-04-26, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Even in 4E, where you had Encounter powers for every class, you still needed to take a Short Rest (equivalent of 5 minutes) to get them back.
Getting rid of Short Rests hoses Fighters, Monks and Warlocks. Turning them into Encounter Abilities that auto recharge without a Short Rest turns those three classes into powerhouses. I don't think either way is properly balanced.
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2018-04-26, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
The DM could declare once or twice per long rest (at whatever times seems appropriate) that all short rest powers now recharge, and that the PCs can expend hit dice. These non-rest rests could be handed out by fiat ('now seems a good time'), or by some system ('nothing strenuous has been going on for a while'), or written into locations and times ('the smell of flowers from the garden refreshes everyone's minds and they gain the effect of a short rest'), or some combination.
Edit: I'd try to avoid 'per encounter' powers. You would make it easier for the party to deal with many, small encounters than a few, big encounters. And sometimes 'encounter' can get fuzzy. I've had what was supposed to eb three separate fights turn into one big fight, due to a confusion effect and PCs intentionally splitting up. How would you figure that? And do non-fight encounters count?Last edited by hymer; 2018-04-26 at 06:24 AM.
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2018-04-26, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2017
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I have likewise been playing around at trying to remove short rests entirely as a mechanic. Personally I think the encounter-based recharge system is the better route, but rather than giving full recharge after every encounter, I figured a half recharge is probably closer to the normal balance point (since the normal expected rest rate is 6 encounters per long rest, with two short rests somewhere in between, so roughly 2 encounters per rest). So for every class that recharges uses by short rest, just allow them to recharge up to half their number of uses per encounter. As for HD, I would just allow them to be used at any time out of combat.
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2018-04-26, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Our DM got rid of our short rest benefits by having a minor artifact show up that our Bard wore. Besides it changing his alignment, we got no benefit from short rests and it summoned random demons into our presence now and again. The party rogue and I kept the chest that it came in. (It had powerful abjuration magic on it). Our bard inexplicably fell while climbing, and died from falling damage. The rogue looked at me, I cast "remove curse" and the rogue lifted the necklace off of our bard and stuffed it into the chest. I burned the one scroll of raise dead that we had to get the bard back on his feet.
As it works out, the alignment change was something like permanent. (Sadly that campaign ended a while later).Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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2018-04-26, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
i think just getting rid of it would be just. i don't think you need to replace it with anything so long as you are not running a game where they go 2 of more games without getting to a safe area for a long rest. i have been playing in a 5e game for almost 2 years now and we have taken 2 short rest both only when we spent long amounts of time in unsafe areas. both of those only happened after 15 level
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2018-04-26, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Very easily done. The game assumes 2 short rests to 1 long rest. So all short rest abilities become twice per long rest, instead. Possibly you could also add the condition: you cant use the same short rest ability twice in the same combat. Resetting all classes to a long rest base would actually work a lot better.
Last edited by Psikerlord; 2018-04-26 at 08:32 AM.
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2018-04-26, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
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2018-04-26, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
I am a fan of the per encounter method. If it is like 1/short rest like action surge then make it 3 times a day. If it is multiple times per short rest like monk ki or warlock spell slots gives half as many but they come back everytime you roll initiative
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2018-04-26, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Last edited by xroads; 2018-04-26 at 09:22 AM. Reason: Changed my mind.
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2018-04-26, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2018-04-26, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2005
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- Albuquerque, NM
Re: If I wanted to get rid of short resting
Seems the easiest thing is to give the Warlock 2 slots (3 at 11th) per encounter and 6 spells (9 at 11th) per day.
Giving them standard casting like a sorcerer or wizard... at that point, just get rid of it and create pact wizard 'schools'.Trollbait extraordinaire