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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The only reason ive seen stated in this thread for why Superman cant be infinitely powerful is that any of the demonstrations would have broken physics, which makes me wonder if the people making that claim are remotely familiar with either Superman comics or Dragonball.
    It would break physics... And be completely inconsistent with Superman's abilities as portrayed. Superman has failed to lift/break stuff before. He needed help to do it on several occasions too. He was overpowered by more powerful opponents a few times as well. None of that would happen if he had infinity strength. His strength is also explicitly stated to be fueled by sunlight... And there's nothing even close to infinity sunlight in the universe, much less in the little spam of time he lived under s yellow sun.

    Besides, even if the book had infinity pages... It doesn't matter! It was a magic book! It could have infinity pages and yet only weigh 1 kg... It obviously didn't have infinity mass. If it did, even infinity strength wouldn't be able to lift it!

    "Superman has infinity X" is so goddamn obviously false, it makes me wonder if anyone making that claim is even remotely familiar with any iteration of Superman.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-05-02 at 10:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    The point is that it's clearly shown to be a quantitative difference, not qualitative.

    There exists an amount of power that would beat it. Therefore it's just another multiplier, no matter what fancy fluff they give it.

    And if it's just a multiplier, it could be x10 or x1000, it still wouldn't beat infinite.

    Also, regarding Hakai, it's not an "entropy ball of soul destroying blah blah blah". It's just another generic energy ball with fancy fluff. Several characters have resisted or overpowered it by just being strong / exerting themselves enough. Again, quantitative difference, not qualitative.
    Except it's not just a Multiplyer. It's a Multiplyer that keeps getting bigger and a seemingl expoential rate.

    Furthermore, The arguments for Superman being Ininifty are: The Book of incident pages incident, where Superman lifted a Magic Book that he and only he said had infinite pages. The fact that the book is magic means that even if it has infinite pages, it's actual weight can't be taken for granted. The fact that Superman is not an expert on the book and that DB and people in this thread have dsmissed the word of people from Dragon Ball on how strong Goku is even when they're more infomred of power than Superman is of the book means that we can't take Superman's word at face value.

    If we're taking Superman's word on the book at face vavlue, than we have to take Elder Kai's word that Goku is a universes Buster who can make the entire multiverse tremble with his power(and that's before mastering UI) at face value, inhwhich cAse Goku is operating on a scale higher than any one individual Superman.

    The other Arguments for Superman being infinite are that he can keep getting stronger by absorbing sunlight, but 1: There's a finite amount of Yellow Sunlight in the universe and you can't assume that Superman has ways of generating more sunlight on hand during the fight.2 It takes Superman time to absorb sunlight in quantities enough to increase his power unless he's activily sundipping and even that has a finite amount of power greater than what it gives him. 3: Going by All-Star Superman, there's an upper limit to how much yellow Sunlight his body can hold before it becames dangerous for him.

    And the narrative Argument: "Goku's story is about becoming the best, but Superman is just automatically the best" 1: Isn't True, as there are several people in the DC Universe who are more powerful than Superman--Darkseid, Doomsday, I think Spectre, Wonder Woman and MArtian Manhunter are consistantly depicted as his equals, as is flipping Aquaman on a good day, in terms of physical strength. 2: Even if it was, Goku's narrative has consitantly been about him "beating the best" whenever it's not about him also "being the best" and currently Goku is the most powerful non-God fighter in the Multiverse so the narrative argument really doesn't apply.

    Hakai: The fact that Beerus explicitly destroyed a ghost who had been utterly impervious to harm due to being aghost disagrees with you. As does the fact that Zamasu didn't leave a ghost behind despite the fact that normally, when you die in Otherworld you just sort of pop up where you died(See King Kai and Elder Kai.) Being able to resist it is a matter of having more Ki than is equivelent to the Destructive energy and having sufficient energy control. As it destroys souls and is a technique that can only be used by people with Godly Power, it is quite simply the most magical thing in Goku's arsenal and even if it's not, it ignores durabillity, affects body and soul, and Future Zamasu in the Manga seemed pretty damn sure it would ahve killed him and he was literally Immortal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The only reason ive seen stated in this thread for why Superman cant be infinitely powerful is that any of the demonstrations would have broken physics, which makes me wonder if the people making that claim are remotely familiar with either Superman comics or Dragonball.
    And also that there's a finite amount of solar energy in the universe and that we only have Superman's world that he lifted Infinite pages and no evidence whatsoever that the book weighed infinity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Still upset that they had Vegeta punch through a Hakai. Dammit guys you have this cool ability and technique. Something that would force your characters to think around it, use some interesting strategies to fight the opponent. But NOooooOO Just have your character be strong enough to ignore it.
    Technically, Vegeta didn't punch through "Hakai" as that's a specific technique. He punched through the "destruction energy" of a newborn GoD.

    It's the differance between being able to tank a laser blast and being able to tank a flashlight.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2018-05-02 at 11:02 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    While I agree with you, Rater202, I believe you meant DC universe right there...
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    While I agree with you, Rater202, I believe you meant DC universe right there...
    I have no idea what you're talking about *shifty eyes*

    Actually, Interesting Trivia, when Jack Kirby(who famously wrote for both Marvel and DCat various points) first created Darkseid and the other New Gods, he originally invisioned them as being inhabitants of the Marvel Universe who were vistiing the DC universe and that's why they traveled through the Boom Tubes.

    Eventually, he was told, "no, no, pulling that off would be a nightmare change it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    The attacks Vegeta punched through were explicitly toppo using a hakai. He says it multiple times.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    The attacks Vegeta punched through were explicitly toppo using a hakai. He says it multiple times.
    Hakai is the Japanese word for "destruction." It was destruction energy, but it wasn't a proper Hakai(technique) because that's a specific aplication of the abillity.

    Hand out, person just sort of dissolving bit by bit, that's Hakai. Otherwise, it's just an application of destruction energy.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    And for the actual topic of the thread, Sora vs. Pit is out!



    In which Sora, who is not Superman, fights Pit, who is not Goku.

    Spoiler: Not Superman vs. Not Goku
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    And Sora takes it. I'm not entirely sure I agree on having the Gummi Ship nullify the Great Sacred Treasure so neither is allowed. The Great Sacred Treasure is explicitly for combat, the Gummi Ship is a transport with weapons.

    Spoiler: Next time...
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    Hope you like zombies, because Frank West is fighting Leon Kennedy.

    ...eh, they can't all be interesting, I guess.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Except it's not just a Multiplyer. It's a Multiplyer that keeps getting bigger and a seemingl expoential rate.
    It is still just a multiplier.

    And regarding the rest of your post:

    I'm not defending superman being infinite anything. All I'm saying is:

    If superman is infinite, multiplying your stats by any finite number is pointless. UI is just a multiplier, despite the fluff. Therefore, it doesn't change the result.

    Now, is superman infinite? I don't know and I don't care. Personally, I found Death Battle's closure nice and fair.

    If they had Goku win by clinging to some sketchy calculation such as multiplying power levels people would just as easily find holes in it and point to examples of superman being stronger.
    Honestly, both source materials are wildly inconsistent, and it's not like there will ever be an "objective" or "real" result. (Since those characters are, y'know, fictional)
    Just accept the show for what it is and move on.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    In which Sora, who is not Superman, fights Pit, who is not Goku.
    [...]

    Spoiler: Next time...
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    Hope you like zombies, because Frank West is fighting Leon Kennedy.

    ...eh, they can't all be interesting, I guess.
    Now you're talking crazy. There has only been one fight in DB, all others are hypothetical entities to prove why that fight's result was legitimate / nonsense...


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    I had no stakes in this but... my gut makes me think both the Hercules argument and the "cutting seven buildings" are stupid. Not because DB used them but because they exist in canon. I hate it when game designers decide to have their characters do stuff that's totally not needed to happen...
    Oh well, I don't care.

    Speaking of me not caring: Next match.




    You know what I'd love? Another villain fight. Like Doom vs Vader. Maybe some true hellish entities, like Pennywise against Voldemort.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Spoiler: Continuity Errors
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    Drive forms requiring Sora to combine with his friends is a Gameplay mechanic--presumbably for balance reasons

    Also, that LAser isn't exactly an attack.

    I'm not disagreeing with their results, but the fight ending move should have been differant.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Spoiler: Next time...
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    Hope you like zombies, because Frank West is fighting Leon Kennedy.

    ...eh, they can't all be interesting, I guess.
    Really? Isn't Leon Kennedy around a decade younger than Frank West, and an agent for an elite American anti-bioterrorism task force? I mean, Frank could win - particularly if you take video game mechanics literally - but I would say it's unlikely.

    I would've done Ash Williams v. Frank West personally, at least it would be amusing. Though admittedly an issue for the purposes of producing an animation.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post

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    I had no stakes in this but... my gut makes me think both the Hercules argument and the "cutting seven buildings" are stupid. Not because DB used them but because they exist in canon. I hate it when game designers decide to have their characters do stuff that's totally not needed to happen...
    Oh well, I don't care.

    Speaking of me not caring: Next match.

    .
    ...Define "totally not needed to happen". I sincerely have no idea what you mean by that. Both are things that happen in the game for a reason.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    And for the actual topic of the thread, Sora vs. Pit is out!



    In which Sora, who is not Superman, fights Pit, who is not Goku.

    Spoiler: Not Superman vs. Not Goku
    Show
    And Sora takes it. I'm not entirely sure I agree on having the Gummi Ship nullify the Great Sacred Treasure so neither is allowed. The Great Sacred Treasure is explicitly for combat, the Gummi Ship is a transport with weapons.

    Spoiler: Next time...
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    Hope you like zombies, because Frank West is fighting Leon Kennedy.

    ...eh, they can't all be interesting, I guess.
    Spoiler: Sora Vs Pit
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    Yeah, it seemed to be pretty straightforward. As soon as they said that Sora had dodged natural lightning I knew it was pretty much over. A pretty basic match up of one guys numbers are just higher then others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Really? Isn't Leon Kennedy around a decade younger than Frank West, and an agent for an elite American anti-bioterrorism task force? I mean, Frank could win - particularly if you take video game mechanics literally - but I would say it's unlikely.

    I would've done Ash Williams v. Frank West personally, at least it would be amusing. Though admittedly an issue for the purposes of producing an animation.
    Agreed. Leon fights giant monsters, Frank's boss fights are just crazy dudes. This seems pretty clear cut.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Yeah, in a straight up fight, I'd say Leon, too, but Frank does have one advantage. He has a working Mega Buster. Yes, same one as Mega Man. Which makes no sense, but he has it.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Got a suggestion for you, how about Negan vs an unarmed Gregor Clegane "The Mountain" From Game of Thrones?
    Negan would still have his base ball bat.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    ...Define "totally not needed to happen". I sincerely have no idea what you mean by that. Both are things that happen in the game for a reason.
    I mean like when Megaman holds up a building in a cutscene and dies when an icicle drops on him or when Snake dodges bullets and pulls of crazy acrobatics that are impossible to do in-game, it seems like something pretty removed from what the character can do otherwise to make him look more awesome. It's not good enough he can beat up monsters, he has to slize through seven buildings? Why? Why include this in the game? What would be lost without it?
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    I mean like when Megaman holds up a building in a cutscene and dies when an icicle drops on him or when Snake dodges bullets and pulls of crazy acrobatics that are impossible to do in-game, it seems like something pretty removed from what the character can do otherwise to make him look more awesome. It's not good enough he can beat up monsters, he has to slize through seven buildings? Why? Why include this in the game? What would be lost without it?
    Sora slicing through those buldings was gameplay.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    I mean like when Megaman holds up a building in a cutscene and dies when an icicle drops on him or when Snake dodges bullets and pulls of crazy acrobatics that are impossible to do in-game, it seems like something pretty removed from what the character can do otherwise to make him look more awesome. It's not good enough he can beat up monsters, he has to slize through seven buildings? Why? Why include this in the game? What would be lost without it?
    ...It was a part of a boss fight, and consistently replicated similarly by feats shown later in the same boss fight.

    Along with stuff in different boss fights like juggling a dragon with his sword slashes and blocking the attack of a monster far larger than those skyscrapers while in the form of a lion cub holding his Keyblade in his teeth.

    Nothing about the skyscraper feat is inconsistent with other gameplay elements.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by ArlEammon View Post
    Got a suggestion for you, how about Negan vs an unarmed Gregor Clegane "The Mountain" From Game of Thrones?
    Negan would still have his base ball bat.
    Who is Negan?
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Who is Negan?
    Guy from The Walking Dead. I doubt he would have a chance against Clegane... Negan is mean, but not particularly skilled. Clegane is a 8ft-tall trained warrior who does nothing but practice violence his whole life. He'd probably block/tank a single swing of Negan's bat before crushing the man's skull with his bare hands.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-05-02 at 04:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Who is Negan?
    A thug with a baseball bat who has no particular standout features in either physicality or martial skill. Also a primary villain from The Walking Dead.

    Surely, the greatest matchup for a guy pushing the limits of human size and strength, wearing armor and trained to kill.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    I don't know too much about either Sora or Pit, but I feel like both of them were horribly represented, being nerfed in some areas and overblown in others. I get the impression that the research team didn't care enough to try.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I don't know too much about either Sora or Pit, but I feel like both of them were horribly represented, being nerfed in some areas and overblown in others. I get the impression that the research team didn't care enough to try.
    I'm not sure about Pit, but other tha the moon laser and drive forms most of Sora's stuff seems accurate.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Frank West might have an advantage just based on how "cartoony" his games are, while RE tries to keep things relatively down-to-earth... Kinda of... Leon pulls bat**** crazy stunts in the less serious games (RE4) and CG movies (in one of them, a giant monster punches Leon hard enough for him to fly 30 ft in the air, collide with metal ground, then fall to ground... And that doesn't even slow him down! It's ridiculous even for the movie's own standards!)

    EDIT: My mistake! It's more like 90 ft in the air and Leon hits concrete... Then proceeds to get up and get back into action like it was nothing. Check it out! I remember suddenly laughing out loud when I first saw this scene...
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-05-02 at 08:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Frank West might have an advantage just based on how "cartoony" his games are, while RE tries to keep things relatively down-to-earth... Kinda of... Leon pulls bat**** crazy stunts in the less serious games (RE4) and CG movies (in one of them, a giant monster punches Leon hard enough for him to fly 30 ft in the air, collide with metal ground, then fall to ground... And that doesn't even slow him down! It's ridiculous even for the movie's own standards!)

    EDIT: My mistake! It's more like 90 ft in the air and Leon hits concrete... Then proceeds to get up and get back into action like it was nothing. Check it out! I remember suddenly laughing out loud when I first saw this scene...
    Doesn't RE4 have an infinite rocket launcher as an unlockable? I wonder if Death Battle will consider that "canon."
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    If anything, I'd say Sora seems less competent in cutscenes. He routinely stands around, gasping at things he could very easily stop, like every single time somebody uses a dark portal. At one point, Sax casually strolls into one, I think backwards, and Sora just gawps at him like he can't close the distance in half a picosecond.

    As for his Drive Forms, the only time you can use them in KHII, without Donald or Goofy, is in the Cerberus Cup Tournament, which has it as a special rule. (Unless I missed a section when I replayed the game last week.)
    Last edited by Delicious Taffy; 2018-05-02 at 09:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Doesn't RE4 have an infinite rocket launcher as an unlockable? I wonder if Death Battle will consider that "canon."
    You really... REALLY!!! don't want to make this about who has the better weapons if you're rooting for Leon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUORnWM_v4c

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    If anything, I'd say Sora seems less competent in cutscenes. He routinely stands around, gasping at things he could very easily stop, like every single time somebody uses a dark portal. At one point, Sax casually strolls into one, I think backwards, and Sora just gawps at him like he can't close the distance in half a picosecond.

    As for his Drive Forms, the only time you can use them in KHII, without Donald or Goofy, is in the Cerberus Cup Tournament, which has it as a special rule. (Unless I missed a section when I replayed the game last week.)
    In the cutscene where they're introduced, Sora uses ValorForm, which in gameplay requires him to combine with goofy, while Goofy is still there.

    I linked it in a spoiler up thread, but Goofy actually gawks at the form.

    It's a game balance issue rather than a story issue, and we don't count game mechanics.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here.

    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  29. - Top - End - #119
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Well we may not, Death Batte can and will when it suits them. If it was a deciding factor they might have ruled otherwise but for the most part it would have just been building a lilly.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Titan in the Playground
     
    zimmerwald1915's Avatar

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    Default Re: Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Spoiler: Continuity Errors
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    Also, that LAser isn't exactly an attack.
    Spoiler: Kingdom Hearts II
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    It's the attack that finishes off Xemnas, albeit in a cutscene.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-05-02 at 10:27 PM.
    You, who have nothing at all to believe in; to you, whose motto is "money comes first;" who are you, to tell us that our lives have been wasted? That all that we've fought for has turned into dust?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm jumping on the Zim bandwagon.
    Human stick-figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find more here.

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