Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

[Forum Explorer]

Oh I know that Leon has better training. I'm just saying that Frank's not simply an amateur.

Sure. And more importantly, both characters are just human. A well placed bullet with kill either one of them.

[McNum]

They've mentioned recently in the episode "Permanently Banned from Death Battle" that part of the reason they won't do a Mickey Mouse fight is that KH Mickey is just way too overpowered.

I think its fascetious to bring in Kingdom Hearts Mickey however, not only because they expressed that Disney had an old reputation of savagely protecting the Mouse, but because KH Mickey doesn't just differ from canon Mickey, he's a completely different sort of entity...going from sorcerer's apprentice to sorcerer supreme.

There's a battle for you Mickey Mouse vs. Dr. Strange. Dr. Strange wins obviously by looking into the future and calculating the only way to win the fight...shut down Death Battle for good (they said if they did use Mickey Mouse it would be in the last battle ever).

I still want Donald Duck for a Death Battle, though. As in full on comics Donald Duck. Who is a globetrotting adventurer, a secret agent of three different agencies (one where he hunts the supernatural, one where he does corporate espionage for Uncle Scrooge, and one where he's basically James Bond as Agent Double Duck), and a superhero who fights badguys including but not limited to: common criminals, alien empires, and time travelers. He also owns a supersonic plane, a space cruiser, and if all else fails, his trusty old 313 car has more gadgets installed than all the James Bond cars combined.

I think he should fight Daffy. Who is Duck Dodgers of the 23rd and a half century as well as a Green Lantern. Should at the very least be a fun fight. I'm thinking Donald takes it on experience, he's just that much of a better fighter.

And yes, the previews should say absolutely nothing about the superhero stuff. Just introduce the characters in their civilian forms. Then the show turns out quite... different.

[Lemmy]

Sure. And more importantly, both characters are just human. A well placed bullet with kill either one of them.

Well... Except in-game. In-game both of them can tank bullets, grenades, flame, electricity, acid, missiles...

And that's why most gameplay elements are/should be ignored or at least taken with a big grain of salt.

[Devonix]

Sure. And more importantly, both characters are just human. A well placed bullet with kill either one of them.

Unless it's Zombie Frank who in universe, not just in gameplay can tank heavy machine gun fire. without losing any intelligence or of any of his human abilities.

[Maryring]

The worst part about the Frank vs Leon fight... is that I have no idea who either of them are and the names are so normal that I have a hard time keeping straight who's who.

[Devonix]

The worst part about the Frank vs Leon fight... is that I have no idea who either of them are and the names are so normal that I have a hard time keeping straight who's who.

Leon Kennedy is one of the protagonists from the Resident Evil series.
Frank West is from the Dead Rising Series.

They are to different Zombie series that Capcom produces.

[Lemmy]

The worst part about the Frank vs Leon fight... is that I have no idea who either of them are and the names are so normal that I have a hard time keeping straight who's who.

Just remember the guy who kills zombies.

[Rater202]

For reference: Zombies in Dead Rising are caused by one of two mutant wasps, while the Zeds in RE are caused by various physics breaking viruses, parasites, and in one case a bizarre fungus/bacteria hybrid though Leon hasn't fought any of those.

Standard T-Virus zombies arne't much differant from you're normal romero zombies though they don't nessesarily need to be headshotted, similary to the zeds in Dead Rising, but certain strains of the virus won't stay dead if you don't headshot them and will come back as stronger monsters--Crimson Heads in REMake and it's been implied or stated(don't remmeber which) that the Lickers(quadropedal zombies with exposed brains and long toungue that can slice a man apart) are the result of that process being repeated more than once. Well, up until it was descovered that lickers can reprosuce sexually, now they're bred.

Other kinds of RE infected,however, have differant effects--T-Veronica might make you a zombie, or it might make you a freak plant and/or insect based monstroncity or, if you do it just right, make you otherwise human but able to set your blood on fire, while Las Plagas infected are fully sentient, if violent and compelled to anochronistic behaviors(Las Plagas in Eruope end up in resizance era peasantry clothing while tribal africans end up in traditional clothing and tools. in both cases, other than a handful of guys with chainsaws, the Las Plagas victims will prefer to inflict violence is pre-industrial faming equipment or other melee weapons even if their are guns right there.)

and that's not even getting into the giant bugs, the super soldiers, and the freaking Kaiju that Leon and his compatriots fight on a regular basis.

[Lemmy]

You know... I've been rereading "Akira" lately, and a couple days ago, an Youtuber I like made a pretty awesome video about the cultural impact of the animated movie.

That made me think... Who could possibly make a good opponent for peak-power Tetsuo (well... Peak-power before he loses control and mutates into a giant abomination, anyway).

Maybe Mob from "Mob Psycho"? Jean Grey (without the Phoenix Force, as that would technically be adding another character... And it's too overpowered, anyway).

That could be a cool battle...

I also would love to see Jackie Chan from the animated cartoon with the 12 magi medallions... Although, one of them makes the user invulnerable and immortal, and just in case, another one heals any damage... So it might end up as yet another "The other is probably more powerful, but still can't kill him".

[Maryring]

Just remember the guy who kills zombies.

In that case I'll be rooting for whomever is killing zombies. Because zombies are the worst.

[Reddish Mage]

I still want Donald Duck for a Death Battle, though. As in full on comics Donald Duck. Who is a globetrotting adventurer, a secret agent of three different agencies (one where he hunts the supernatural, one where he does corporate espionage for Uncle Scrooge, and one where he's basically James Bond as Agent Double Duck), and a superhero who fights badguys including but not limited to: common criminals, alien empires, and time travelers. He also owns a supersonic plane, a space cruiser, and if all else fails, his trusty old 313 car has more gadgets installed than all the James Bond cars combined.

I think he should fight Daffy. Who is Duck Dodgers of the 23rd and a half century as well as a Green Lantern. Should at the very least be a fun fight. I'm thinking Donald takes it on experience, he's just that much of a better fighter.

And yes, the previews should say absolutely nothing about the superhero stuff. Just introduce the characters in their civilian forms. Then the show turns out quite... different.

Donald Duck against Daffy would be an excellent Death Battle. I don't think your idea of holding back their superhero/action hero abilities in the previews work with their way of running things though.

Death Battle works through a lot of audience interaction and building reddit discussion. They also articulated this season that they will use ALL official material (as long as it doesn't contradict canon). There's no way the base wouldn't already be discussing what hidden skills and powers each will bring to the table before the previews even air. If they don't use the action hero stuff in the previews (which means creating previews that lie, because the previews always include a stat rundown) they will be called out on it.

Anyway, it sounds like Donald would win, but Daffy has plenty of superpowered and action hero-esqe moves himself. In fact, I think Daffy has taken enough punishment that the argument may be made that he is essentially immortal and cannot be killed. The same may be true for Donald, but Loony Tunes is infamous for how much punishment they dish out on their toons.

Also, I think most of the abilities shown can be used, but stories where Donald or Daffy have actual superpowers (or say Kingdom Hearts) is probably so outside the norm that they should be considered contradicting canon. Clearly these characters don't have powers and magic most of the time.

[Traab]

Too be fair, a large portion of the animated jackie chan adventures involves people losing the medallions on a regular basis. Lets make it jackie chan versus XIAOLIN SHOWDOWN! Both have martial artists with powerful artifacts, all have unique abilities, and both are constantly being stolen, lost, tricked out of, etc.

[Rater202]

1: Talismans. Not Medallions. The Talismans of Shendu.

2: Animated Jackie never had all 12 Talismans. The only people who did were Shendu(from who the Talismans were extracted, though the implication is that he stole the powers themselves from their rightful owners) and Jade in one episode.

Teh J-Team(Jackie, Jade, Uncle, Tohru, Viper, and El Toro) with the talismans divided among them against the Xiaolin Dragons from XS with their singature weapons and one Wu each(Two artifacts per fight) might make a decent matchup, but the Monks would have an advantage--only two members of the J-Tem have Supernatural powers without the Talismans, while the Dragons each have an elemental power that becomes increaisnly more blatant as the series moves on. On the other hand, the J-Team has numbers and Tohru is canonically strong enough to overpower A professional Luchadore(less staged than American Pro Wrestling) who had the "Super Strength" Talisman.

[Traab]

I know he never had all 12, that wasnt my point. Its that the entire series revolves around one side or the other gaining then losing the talismans back and forth between them. It didnt matter what combo they had at the time, SOMETHING always comes up to make them lose ownership of one or more of the set. Its not like they are permanently fused to the wielder or something. Thats something that would likely be mentioned in a death battle, as its canonically a real issue with using them in a fight. Same for the Wu. They gain them, they lose them, they face them in battle and find a way to get them back, etc etc etc. I honestly see a team battle being a gloriously chaotic mess as powers are constantly alternating back and forth as they keep stealing and losing magical items.

[Rater202]

actually, the Talisman's were all firmly in Good Guy hands for most of Season 2 and all of Seasons 4 and 5.

They were only the Maggufins for season 1 and 3, and generally speaking once a side had one, it was there until the end of the season. And in Seasons 2, 4, and 5 the Good Guys ultimately got all of the Magguffins(The Bad guys getting two each in seasons 1 and 3) until the True Big Bad got them in the end but was then defeated anyway.

So if tendency to lose magic items is a factor in the fight, then the Dragons are kind of screwed in this hypothetical.

[Celestia]

I really want to see Death Battle tackle Megas XLR. I bet Boomstick would have some great reactions to that show.

[Lemmy]

Well, at one point Jade had all the powers of the talismans without actually needing the talismans. And evil-sorcerer guy tried to steal them from her...

Now, although Jackie never had all the talismans, I think it'd be acceptable to give them to Jackie for the purposes of DB... Otherwise he doesn't have much going for him and will probably be curb-stomped by whoever is his opponent (assuming super powers are in play).

[Reddish Mage]

Now, although Jackie never had all the talismans, I think it'd be acceptable to give them to Jackie for the purposes of DB... Otherwise he doesn't have much going for him and will probably be curb-stomped by whoever is his opponent (assuming super powers are in play).

I thought the point was to analyze who would actually win...then create a show. Even if you hate DB and think they do a poor job of it, the point of the thread here was talking about who would actually win in the DB and hypothetical matchups using the DB rules.

If Jackie’s going to lose give him everything to make a good show, but if it could actually affect the outcome DB doesn’t do charity, and we sure don’t.

Just make Jackie’s opponent someone on his level, like Chuck Norris’s Walker Texas Ranger. Jackie could totally win that one.

[Lemmy]

I thought the point was to analyze who would actually win...then create a show. Even if you hate DB and think they do a poor job of it, the point of the thread here was talking about who would actually win in the DB and hypothetical matchups using the DB rules.

If Jackie’s going to lose give him everything to make a good show, but if it could actually affect the outcome DB doesn’t do charity, and we sure don’t.

Just make Jackie’s opponent someone on his level, like Chuck Norris’s Walker Texas Ranger. Jackie could totally win that one.

Well, it would be fun seeing Jackie obtaining and losing the talismans through out the match. Jackie actually has possession of 1~3 talismans at a time at various points... Plus a few other magical relics.

TBH, I just want to see someone kung-fu fighting with the power of all talismans at the same time!

Oh! And Jackie Chan definitely beats Chuck Norris!

EDIT: If by charity you mean "give characters powers/abilities/stats/gear they never had at the same time"... Then DB does that quite often, specially when using characters who have multiple versions.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Las Plagas infected are fully sentient, if violent and compelled to anochronistic behaviors(Las Plagas in Eruope end up in resizance era peasantry clothing while tribal africans end up in traditional clothing and tools. in both cases, other than a handful of guys with chainsaws, the Las Plagas victims will prefer to inflict violence is pre-industrial faming equipment or other melee weapons even if their are guns right there.)

...anachronism zombies????

... no comment.

[Reddish Mage]

EDIT: If by charity you mean "give characters powers/abilities/stats/gear they never had at the same time"... Then DB does that quite often, specially when using characters who have multiple versions.

The question is whether the talismans are in Jackie’s “arsenal.” These are macguffins that appear and get lost throughout the series run.

While we are on death battle concepts they’ll never try, I note that JADE is the real main character of the story. Who would she fight? Yes, I realize they’ll never actually do a death battle with characters that are children.

[Anteros]

The question is whether the talismans are in Jackie’s “arsenal.” These are macguffins that appear and get lost throughout the series run.

While we are on death battle concepts they’ll never try, I note that JADE is the real main character of the story. Who would she fight? Yes, I realize they’ll never actually do a death battle with characters that are children.

Did you not watch the pokemon vs digimon fight? They are certainly not above featuring children in their murder-gore-porn.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

While we are on death battle concepts they’ll never try, I note that JADE is the real main character of the story. Who would she fight? Yes, I realize they’ll never actually do a death battle with characters that are children.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

Toph would disagree.

[McNum]

Donald Duck against Daffy would be an excellent Death Battle. I don't think your idea of holding back their superhero/action hero abilities in the previews work with their way of running things though.

Death Battle works through a lot of audience interaction and building reddit discussion. They also articulated this season that they will use ALL official material (as long as it doesn't contradict canon). There's no way the base wouldn't already be discussing what hidden skills and powers each will bring to the table before the previews even air. If they don't use the action hero stuff in the previews (which means creating previews that lie, because the previews always include a stat rundown) they will be called out on it.

Anyway, it sounds like Donald would win, but Daffy has plenty of superpowered and action hero-esqe moves himself. In fact, I think Daffy has taken enough punishment that the argument may be made that he is essentially immortal and cannot be killed. The same may be true for Donald, but Loony Tunes is infamous for how much punishment they dish out on their toons.

Also, I think most of the abilities shown can be used, but stories where Donald or Daffy have actual superpowers (or say Kingdom Hearts) is probably so outside the norm that they should be considered contradicting canon. Clearly these characters don't have powers and magic most of the time.

Yeah, I'd leave Kingdom Hearts Donald out of it. That's clearly a different Donald, just like all the Final Fantasy characters are alternate versions.

I would say that it depends if Daffy gets to stay an honorary Green Lantern, he did use the ring once. Because he got his laundry mixed up with Hal Jordan's. He also has his underhandedness as an advantage. Daffy might not be a great fighter, but when he fights, he fights dirty. And he can take a shotgun to the face and only need to readjust his beak.

I don't think Donald has the same amount of toon durability, but he does have the McDuck line of rage strength. Got it from his mother who once chased off the army with a broom. They were annoying her Scrooge. And Donald's superhero gear is frankly OP. In the weaker end he has bon bons that induce amnesia, and on the harsher end he has a stasis beam. Can't jump around like an idiot if you're frozen in time.

I'd say Donald wins a conventional fight, but Daffy has a shot if he goes all chaotic on him. It does take quite a lot to actually surprise Donald at this point, though. I mean when you found El Dorado, defeated an alien empire, traveled to the future and back, and much more, you tend to get slightly jaded.

[Lemmy]

The question is whether the talismans are in Jackie’s “arsenal.” These are macguffins that appear and get lost throughout the series run.

While we are on death battle concepts they’ll never try, I note that JADE is the real main character of the story. Who would she fight? Yes, I realize they’ll never actually do a death battle with characters that are children.

You mean other than Gaara vs Toph? Or Sora vs Pit?

[Delicious Taffy]

You mean other than Gaara vs Toph? Or Sora vs Pit?

Can't forget Justin Bieber vs Rebecca Black. And those are allegedly real humans.

[Lemmy]

And let's not forget Harry Potter and Tails.

Oh! And lots of teenagers too!

[Reddish Mage]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

Toph would disagree.

I put Jade's age at like 8 (9 actually), whereas Toph is 12. Also why I'm not counting Sora/Pit, once they start undergoing puberty they're obviously fair game.

Did you not watch the pokemon vs digimon fight? They are certainly not above featuring children in their murder-gore-porn.

I didn't. They actually show 8 year olds getting killed? I guess they have no shame.

Yeah, I'd leave Kingdom Hearts Donald out of it. That's clearly a different Donald, just like all the Final Fantasy characters are alternate versions.

I would say that it depends if Daffy gets to stay an honorary Green Lantern, he did use the ring once. Because he got his laundry mixed up with Hal Jordan's. He also has his underhandedness as an advantage. Daffy might not be a great fighter, but when he fights, he fights dirty. And he can take a shotgun to the face and only need to readjust his beak.

I don't think Donald has the same amount of toon durability, but he does have the McDuck line of rage strength. Got it from his mother who once chased off the army with a broom. They were annoying her Scrooge. And Donald's superhero gear is frankly OP. In the weaker end he has bon bons that induce amnesia, and on the harsher end he has a stasis beam. Can't jump around like an idiot if you're frozen in time.

I'd say Donald wins a conventional fight, but Daffy has a shot if he goes all chaotic on him. It does take quite a lot to actually surprise Donald at this point, though. I mean when you found El Dorado, defeated an alien empire, traveled to the future and back, and much more, you tend to get slightly jaded.

Regardless of Donald's great powers (again I think the superhero gear isn't something he has access to outside of the specific storyline), Daffy is essentially immortal. Looney Tune characters have never been used in a Death Battle but have shown they can be blown to pieces, disintegrated to ashes, and pick themselves back together (all of which has happened to Daffy). Daffy has been hit straight on by Marvin's sci-fi ray, got shot by Elmer Fudd, fallen from great heights and gone literally "splat" and otherwise walked away from abuse in ways that make no sense.

Daffy's durability is way past even Buu's regeneration and deep into reality warper territory. I think Daffy has survived stories where the entire universe gets destroyed. Also, Daffy can break the fourth-wall.

I think the only question is whether Daffy has anything in his arsenal that can kill Donald, and any precedent that Daffy can actually get in a fatal hit against anybody, otherwise a Death Battle between the two would end in eternal stalemate.

Apropos of nothing here is a mod of Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 featuring Bugs Bunny and Daffy as gods of destruction.

[Rater202]

I put Jade's age at like 8 (9 actually), whereas Toph is 12. Also why I'm not counting Sora/Pit, once they start undergoing puberty they're obviously fair game.

Each season of JCA is roughly a year. Jade even gets annoyed in one episode where she mentions having been with Jackie for years and not growing at all in that time.

So if she was Nine at the start of season one, she's a very short 14 by the end of Season 5.

[McNum]

Regardless of Donald's great powers (again I think the superhero gear isn't something he has access to outside of the specific storyline), Daffy is essentially immortal. Looney Tune characters have never been used in a Death Battle but have shown they can be blown to pieces, disintegrated to ashes, and pick themselves back together (all of which has happened to Daffy). Daffy has been hit straight on by Marvin's sci-fi ray, got shot by Elmer Fudd, fallen from great heights and gone literally "splat" and otherwise walked away from abuse in ways that make no sense.

Daffy's durability is way past even Buu's regeneration and deep into reality warper territory. I think Daffy has survived stories where the entire universe gets destroyed. Also, Daffy can break the fourth-wall.

I think the only question is whether Daffy has anything in his arsenal that can kill Donald, and any precedent that Daffy can actually get in a fatal hit against anybody, otherwise a Death Battle between the two would end in eternal stalemate.

Apropos of nothing here is a mod of Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 featuring Bugs Bunny and Daffy as gods of destruction.

The funny thing about Donald's superhero gear is that, until a few years ago, you'd be right. But then the Timecrime story happened. In which Agent Double Duck teamed up with Paperinik establishing that Double Duck is the future of the superhero stories. And also making a lot of callouts to other seemingly incompatible storylines, like the other two secret agencies. Timecrime is why amalgamated Donald Duck exists. Unlike other series where it's a stretch to consider all the versions the same character, Donald, with the exception of his Kingdom Hearts counterpart, is the same character. That's the Donald I want for a Death Battle. Because it's so utterly ridiculous that it deserves to be highlighted. And well, Daffy as Duck Dodgers is really the best thematic opponent.

European Donald Duck comics are weird and it's amazing to see peoples' reactions to them. Also, Donald Duck in a giant mech fighting a giant alien that feeds on your fear. Not making that up.