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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Question Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Is there a preface and introduction on the online version of the book?

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by justben View Post
    Is there a preface and introduction on the online version of the book?
    Yes, the books are identical in content.
    Rich Burlew


    The 2019 OOTS Magic Item Calendar, available for pre-order from Ookoodook or Gumroad, and the 2018 Holiday Ornament (and new t-shirts) from CafePress.

    Also still available: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, a collection of five new stories about your favorite Azure City characters. Get it today from Ookoodook (paper copies) or Gumroad (digital PDFs).

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Q: Why is the overseas shipping so expensive?
    A: Because overseas postage rates are expensive, and most of the companies you're thinking of that charge less have international warehouses they can ship from, or use bulk rate shippers due to the large volume of products sold. Ookoodook is a very small company that does not have those kinds of resources, so they have to bring them to the post office like everyone else.
    My research here is limited, so maybe this is old news, but my understanding is that these company's print-on-demand services allow for distribution in many overseas territories, as well as eliminating inventory costs?
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    My research here is limited, so maybe this is old news, but my understanding is that these company's print-on-demand services allow for distribution in many overseas territories, as well as eliminating inventory costs?
    The price per copy for that service would be approximately three times what I pay in printing. That would lead to cover prices in the range of $40 for a book like this one and $80-90 for one like Blood Runs in the Family—for everyone, regardless of where they live—and they would also be using lighter, less durable paper stock (60# instead of 80#) and cover stock (10 pt instead of 13 pt) and a crappier printing method (digital, which leads to less rich blacks and ink that you can rub off with your fingers, instead of offset). You would be paying more for worse books, but I guess the shipping would be less. But it doesn't matter because I am not going to do that.

    EDIT: Also, this:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I already said what I had to say about shipping in the FAQ, so I'm not going to say anything else.
    Rich Burlew


    The 2019 OOTS Magic Item Calendar, available for pre-order from Ookoodook or Gumroad, and the 2018 Holiday Ornament (and new t-shirts) from CafePress.

    Also still available: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, a collection of five new stories about your favorite Azure City characters. Get it today from Ookoodook (paper copies) or Gumroad (digital PDFs).

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The main advantage is that people won't spend the next three months asking me if they can get the book in PDF format.

    Alternately, like Peelee said, you can buy it now and not have to think about it again until it shows up in your inbox.
    Thanks for the concise explanation. I think I'm just going to wait and buy the PDF in August.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The price per copy for that service would be approximately three times what I pay in printing. That would lead to cover prices in the range of $40 for a book like this one and $80-90 for one like Blood Runs in the Family—for everyone, regardless of where they live—and they would also be using lighter, less durable paper stock (60# instead of 80#) and cover stock (10 pt instead of 13 pt) and a crappier printing method (digital, which leads to less rich blacks and ink that you can rub off with your fingers, instead of offset).
    CreateSpace is limited to 60lb, but looking at the shipping calculator for IngramSpark here, 8x10 inch full-color on 70lb paper works out at ~$6.20 per 100 pages in printing costs, or about $10 for Good Deeds. There might be other providers that go up to 80lb B&W. I can't speak directly to print quality, but my understanding is that PoD has largely closed the gap over the past few years. Either way, I would be surprised if this pushed a $25 book into the $40 range.

    .
    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2018-05-04 at 09:34 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    I can't speak directly to print quality, but my understanding is that PoD has largely closed the gap over the past few years.
    The following sponsored content is brought to you courtesy of Blurb®, a book-making platform...

    i.e., you just linked to an ad for POD.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    ...you just linked to an ad for POD.
    I think I might try setting up an account and see if I can print myself a few test-documents this way. In principle it shouldn't be that hard.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    CreateSpace is limited to 60lb, but looking at the shipping calculator for IngramSpark here, 8x10 inch full-color on 70lb paper works out at ~$6.20 per 100 pages in printing costs, or about $10 for Good Deeds. There might be other providers that go up to 80lb B&W. I can't speak directly to print quality, but my understanding is that PoD has largely closed the gap over the past few years. Either way, I would be surprised if this pushed a $25 book into the $40 range.

    .
    The Giant's feelings about advising him on his business aside (I believe he generally disinvites it), this sort of thing feels like it'd be more suited to a PM than the new prequel book preorder and info thread if you still really want to say it.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    International Shipping costs will stop me pre-ordering, sorry, but I'm looking forward to UK distributors getting their copies of this so I can pick one up later in the year.

    *squee! I really enjoyed How the Paladin got his scar and have to buy this, if only because I've got all the rest! ;) But new OotS content is always good.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    [*]Pier Pressure: Teenagers Daesuk and Lien just want to hang out on the dock and maybe smoke cigarettes or something, but then things get, like, super weird.
    "It was for me. I was going to smoke the marijuana like a cigarette."

    Anyway, gonna preorder both, because I like having both and also doing whatever I can to support OOTS as a going concern.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    I think I might try setting up an account and see if I can print myself a few test-documents this way. In principle it shouldn't be that hard.
    You can do whatever you want, but I already told you I'm not using print-on-demand. I know what options are out there. I have made the choices that work best for me.

    If you want to have a theoretical discussion about the quality of print-on-demand, go start another thread about it. This thread is about the book that will actually exist only.
    Rich Burlew


    The 2019 OOTS Magic Item Calendar, available for pre-order from Ookoodook or Gumroad, and the 2018 Holiday Ornament (and new t-shirts) from CafePress.

    Also still available: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, a collection of five new stories about your favorite Azure City characters. Get it today from Ookoodook (paper copies) or Gumroad (digital PDFs).

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    My cats and I are looking forward to the Mr. Scruffy story a bit too much.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This thread is about the book that will actually exist only.
    Okay... well, in that case, I do have one or two questions about the O-Chul story.

    Spoiler
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    In HTPGHS, Miko and Hinjo refer to eachother as 'cousin', and a discussion between O-Chul and Hinjo implies that she had as much political influence as Hinjo, suggesting that Miko was formally adopted into Shojo's family. However, Miko in the main strip never refers to Shojo as 'father', never refers to her title as anything but 'samurai', has no particular wealth aside from her gear and 'a small stipend from my Lord', and retains her family name of Miyazaki, rather than Jo.

    Was Miko, perhaps, expelled from the royal household at some point? It occurred to me that the Miyazakis themselves might have been cousins of the Jo family in some capacity, but in that case, why was Miko left in a monastery for 13 years? Wouldn't one normally expect surviving relatives or retainers to take care of an orphaned child, particularly if they're as well-off as the ruling house?
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Okay... well, in that case, I do have one or two questions about the O-Chul story.

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    In HTPGHS, Miko and Hinjo refer to eachother as 'cousin', and a discussion between O-Chul and Hinjo implies that she had as much political influence as Hinjo, suggesting that Miko was formally adopted into Shojo's family. However, Miko in the main strip never refers to Shojo as 'father', never refers to her title as anything but 'samurai', has no particular wealth aside from her gear and 'a small stipend from my Lord', and retains her family name of Miyazaki, rather than Jo.

    Was Miko, perhaps, expelled from the royal household at some point? It occurred to me that the Miyazakis themselves might have been cousins of the Jo family in some capacity, but in that case, why was Miko left in a monastery for 13 years?
    Miko was orphaned "at a young age" and brought into Shojo's samurai at the age of 13:


    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

    this does not mean she was a baby when orphaned, and that she was with the monks for 13 years.

    EDIT: Also, as the Giant pointed out in the past - she was old enough to remember her parents - losing them was traumatic:

    I've always felt that someone who had come to him with less underlying issues (whether due to her inherent personality or the trauma of losing her parents and getting sent to a monastery) could have been raised the same way and not turned out to be like Miko. Likewise, if Miko had never met Shojo, she probably would have left the monastery as an angry unstable loner with no purpose. Shojo's guidance was the tape that was held her together for so long, which is why she went to pieces when it was ripped off.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-05-15 at 07:34 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Okay... well, in that case, I do have one or two questions about the O-Chul story.

    Spoiler
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    In HTPGHS, Miko and Hinjo refer to eachother as 'cousin', and a discussion between O-Chul and Hinjo implies that she had as much political influence as Hinjo, suggesting that Miko was formally adopted into Shojo's family. However, Miko in the main strip never refers to Shojo as 'father', never refers to her title as anything but 'samurai', has no particular wealth aside from her gear and 'a small stipend from my Lord', and retains her family name of Miyazaki, rather than Jo.

    Was Miko, perhaps, expelled from the royal household at some point? It occurred to me that the Miyazakis themselves might have been cousins of the Jo family in some capacity, but in that case, why was Miko left in a monastery for 13 years? Wouldn't one normally expect surviving relatives or retainers to take care of an orphaned child, particularly if they're as well-off as the ruling house?
    I fail to see what this has to do with O-Chul's story. It feels even more off-topic than your previous line of inquiry.

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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I fail to see what this has to do with O-Chul's story. It feels even more off-topic than your previous line of inquiry.

    GW
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    I believe his main doubt is in the lines of "They call themselves cousins in O-Chul's story. Are they blood-related cousins?"
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    ...this does not mean she was a baby when orphaned, and that she was with the monks for 13 years.
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    You're quite right- we don't really know when Miko was orphaned, so she may have spent significantly less than 13 years in the monastery. (Which could have been traumatic for reasons unrelated to her age at the time, but that's another discussion.)

    This is kind of secondary to my main point, though, which is that main-strip Miko doesn't show much sign of belonging to the upper nobility. She never, for example, says "You have no right to speak to me this way, I am a <duchess-equivalent>."
    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2018-05-15 at 08:00 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    We'll just have to wait and see what, if anything, The Giant says in the introduction about Miko, Shojo, O-Chul, and the Sapphire Guard. I suspect something will be said, even if not a lot.
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
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    She never, for example, says "You have no right to speak to me this way, I am a <duchess-equivalent>."
    She says almost exactly that.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    As presented in the story, Samurai is an earned military title, not an inherited nobility.

    Frankly, I think its more likely that Miko was simply discouraged from emphasizing her relation to the ruling family, both because it could theoretically cause issues of succession and because as a high ranking subordinate of Shojo, it could raise questions of favoritism.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    And for that matter, Hinjo
    Spoiler: How the Paladin Got His Scar
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    corrects someone who calls him the heir to Azure City by saying that being heir-presumptive is legally meaningless and until Shojo formally announces who his heir is, he's "just another apprentice consular."

    Miko's sole source of legal hard power is her samurai title. Being part of the Lord's family would give her tons of soft power--see the way Hinjo is the only person in the book who actually believes being heir-presumptive doesn't make him important--but Miko wields her authority way too overtly to actually use soft power.
    Last edited by Kish; 2018-05-15 at 10:15 AM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    I am aware of the quote I was paraphrasing. That's my point- if Miko was using her official position to browbeat people, she'd presumably use the highest rank she was entitled to claim. (She also never says, for example, "But you have bags upon bags of treasure! I have only the rental income from my 8000-hectare estate.")

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Frankly, I think its more likely that Miko was simply discouraged from emphasizing her relation to the ruling family, both because it could theoretically cause issues of succession and because as a high ranking subordinate of Shojo, it could raise questions of favoritism.
    This didn't stop Hinjo from calling him uncle.

    It just seems odd to me that someone Shojo ostensibly adopted as a daughter doesn't receive any particular rank, wealth, name, or even the right to call him 'father' out of it.
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Maybe, she's attached enough to her original parents, that even if she has the right to call him "father" or "adopted father" she chooses not to do so and sticks with "Shojo" outside of "chain of command" situations.
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    It seems to me that any political influence possessed by both Miko and Hinjo boiled down to "Shojo listens to us". That's still influence, even if you never make use of it--and Miko almost certainly never did, because she was supremely disinterested in politics as a whole.

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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Actually, you know what? Never mind all that. Check out one of Miko's bonus strips in War & XPs.

    Spoiler
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    ...so, 'cousin' Hinjo and 'father' Shojo don't count as family here?
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Actually, you know what? Never mind all that. Check out one of Miko's bonus strips in War & XPs.

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    ...so, 'cousin' Hinjo and 'father' Shojo don't count as family here?
    Not in Miko's eyes, apparently. She may believe blood is thicker than water at this point.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-05-16 at 08:54 AM.
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    I feel like this strip is relevant to this discussion, but I'm not sure why...

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Not in Miko's eyes, apparently. She may believe blood is thicker than water at this point.
    Forgive me, but that seems like a shift in outlook that requires a non-trivial explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Throknor View Post
    I feel like this strip is relevant to this discussion, but I'm not sure why...
    Fiction is a place where you get to invent your own facts to fit your own theories. Is it asking so much that the facts are at least consistent?
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Throknor View Post
    I feel like this strip is relevant to this discussion, but I'm not sure why...
    It's not a plot ole; at worst, it's a minor inconsistency that doesn't affect the plot. Or, like hamish said, Miko doesn't consider her status to be terrible relevant, especially as an adult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Actually, you know what? Never mind all that. Check out one of Miko's bonus strips in War & XPs.

    Spoiler
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    ...so, 'cousin' Hinjo and 'father' Shojo don't count as family here?
    So.... do you think it'll be addressed in any of the stories in the book?
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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