OOTS #1119 - The Discussion Thread

[Rogar Demonblud]

Delay makes you hold until another initiative count, but you have freedom to decide when to act. Ready allows you to respond to and interrupt a specific other action, and doesn't go off until and unless the specified trigger happens. You can lose your turn entirely if you Ready for something that ends up never happening, where Delay will eventually end up with 'well, every other participant in this fight went, it's your turn now.'

You can Delay indefinitely, which is just the same as not taking an action. Or you can Delay until an initiative point where a specific action happens, and react then, which is just the same as using Ready. Except you can do it longer.

So, needless duplication for very minor difference in effect. See also 604.

[Phoniex]

FIRE FROM HEAVEN!

In other news, V should step in with a Cacophonic Burst or something, just to return the sonic damage favor.

The only thing I worry about is the sound lance.. I could not find that specific spell in the SRD. The closest I found was
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm
Which can stun you for a round.. so V might not have an action next round because he could be stunned... if sound lance stuns when you fail your save.

[Kish]

My understanding is that if you delay, you can say, "I want to go now!" but you can't cut anyone else off. Whereas if you ready, you have to name specific circumstances you'll react to, but you get to act before those circumstances are actually resolved.

In other words:
"I delay."
"thog charges extra-talky elf!"
Thog charges Vaarsuvius, doing nasty damage to them and ending turn adjacent to them.
"I act now and attack Thog!"
"I seem to be in trouble."

or,
"I ready against Thog moving."
"thog charges extra-talky elf!"
"No you don't!"
Roy steps between Thog and Vaarsuvius; Thog's declared charge on Vaarsuvius, no longer legal, turns into him moving and attacking Roy.
"Talky-man get in Thog's way! Rarg!"

[georgie_leech]

The only thing I worry about is the sound lance.. I could not find that specific spell in the SRD. The closest I found was
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm
Which can stun you for a round.. so V might not have an action next round because he could be stunned... if sound lance stuns when you fail your save.

Spell Compendium spell, alas.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

See, Hilgya, you only need to cover one of Kudzu's eyes. That way, he can have a neat eyepatch and still be able to see.

[Kish]

Spell Compendium spell, alas.

1d8 damage per caster level to a single target, maximum 10d8, Fortitude save for half. No stun or other non-damage effects. Actually a pretty bad spell for its level (4 for a cleric, 3 for a sorcerer or wizard) except for the expectation that many enemies will resist fire and very few will resist sound.

[warmachine]

This cartoon does show something I wish D&D sessions had: familiars played as characters. Strictly, they're NPCs, so the DM can play them but DMs have other NPCs to play. I've played Wizards with talking familiars before and offered other players to play the familiar but no one's taken the offer. A pity as familiars could act as an alternative opinion, even with a sarcastic, blunt or other tone the player's PC doesn't use.

[Jasdoif]

1d8 damage per caster level to a single target, maximum 10d8, Fortitude save for half. No stun or other non-damage effects. Actually a pretty bad spell for its level (4 for a cleric, 3 for a sorcerer or wizard) except for the expectation that many enemies will resist fire and very few will resist sound.

I think it was intended for annoying high-dex targets at low/mid level, since it doesn't need an attack roll nor offer a Reflex save to allow evasion.

[Gnoman]

I assumed that was why the "empowered" part was for.

"empowered" means "This spell takes a spell slot 2 levels higher, but anything you roll dice for is increased by 50% An empowered Flame Strike (which requires a 7th level spell slot, so a minimum cleric level of 13) will average 67 - 76 damage depending on level.

[Babytarresque]

Prediction: Durkula will plumb Durkon's memories, recognize Hilgya, put two and two together about baby at "the speed of thought", and even if not still, "vulnerable baby among good-aligned adventurers!" and either command his minions after it and/or target kudzu himself, providing a hostage situation in an attempt to get the OOTS to back off and facilitate him and as many minion's as possible escape, AND setting the Stage for Durkon to unleash every memory trick and ounce of resistance he has left to both show his own personal growth and resolve, AND to contribute however he can to save his just realized he had Son. Knowing Rich, the outcome PROBably won't be tragic...or even crazier prediction, Belkar dies saving the child in the middle of all this.... Abjurations protecting Kudzu or not, if enough of that room of vamps targets baby and baby alone...well they ARE team evil.

[Elenna]

Not actually the case. If they delayed until after Vaarsuvius acted then their initiatives, for the rest of the combat, are set to "just after Vaarsuvius."

That said, Vaarsuvius might be delaying now as they float there, if Rich currently cares about initiative order.

I am pretty sure Rich does not currently care much about initiative order.

It's not really all that surprising to me that the Order isn't having a lot of problems here. I mean, Roy by himself was pretty close to a match for Durkula and it wasn't until about half-way through that he took the fight completely seriously. With the buffing from V and Hilgya, this SHOULD be a bit of a cake-walk for the order, shouldn't it? What I'm wondering is how Rich is going to provide tension - gate in a couple of devils, maybe?

Personally, the tension I'm feeling right now is about what Durkon's reaction to Hilgya + Kudzu will be.

Pretty sure this is the equivalent to the Holy Word fight in the pyramid last book, in that the Order are going to fairly cleanly win the fight but not the "war" - at least Durkula, and possibly Ponchella & one or two others, are going to escape. The ExExcharch isn't going to be the villain in the rest of the book by himself, and we've yet to see Durkon's mum or family in the present day - too much setup there to go to "waste".

Hence why I was speculating that we may see Durkon use Word of Recall to head to Durkon's old bedroom or somesuch while bugging out.

Huh, I was kind of assuming this fight was the end of the book - it felt relatively final, and 5-10 more strips for battle plus 10-20 more strips for wrapup, talking to people, and some setup for the next book would put this one at or above the length of books 2-4. But you're right, we still haven't seen Durkon's family. Maybe they'll come into the story afterwards in relation to the baby?

Or maybe this will just be another longer book. I certainly wouldn't object.

It's not enough to feel like it. She has to feel like it 5,000 gp in diamonds worth.

Does the Order still have that 5000 gp of diamonds they were planning to use back before the godsmoot? I remember there was some discussion about using it to pay the crew of the Mechane, but I can't remember if they actually needed to do so.

[Shatteredtower]

I know we already have a song reference here (and a good rendition of it in this discussion on page 1), but if Hilgya pauses to tend to Kudzu for a moment before casting another fire spell, it's time for "Disco Inferno".

You know, the song that begins, "Burn, baby, burn..."

(And now I see there's a song called "Burn Baby Burn". Well, you learn something new every day. Maybe I should have tried harder to learn something useful.)

[eilandesq]

Both clerics just popped level 7 slots, and Hilgya just openly declared herself as a cleric of Loki before dropping that column of divine fire on the bloodsuckers. I'll be surprised if Durkula doesn't smell a rat and immediately start trying to get information out of Durkon again.

[Ruck]

I study arcane sciences
I've the best classes!
I've got a crazy raven who wears dark glasses,
Vamps are burning great...

Bravo.

Pretty sure this is the equivalent to the Holy Word fight in the pyramid last book, in that the Order are going to fairly cleanly win the fight but not the "war" - at least Durkula, and possibly Ponchella & one or two others, are going to escape. The ExExcharch isn't going to be the villain in the rest of the book by himself, and we've yet to see Durkon's mum or family in the present day - too much setup there to go to "waste".

Hence why I was speculating that we may see Durkon use Word of Recall to head to Durkon's old bedroom or somesuch while bugging out.

I don't know all the rules, but I thought Word of Recall required a specific destination selected when preparing the spell-- and one familiar to the caster. I don't think Durkula can use it in this fashion.

I mean unless Hilgya also dumped Knowledge: Religion, she knows this is not the real Durkon. She has to kill the vampire, rez it, then kill Durkon

Given how she talks about Durkon "embrac[ing] such a descent into unnatural depravity" in #1107, I'd say the indication is strong she does not know that Durkon and the vampire are distinct entities.

If HPoH doesn’t already realize that the OOTS has another cleric, he’ll probably start to figure it out now.

Yeah, I think this pretty much blows the cover on the Order's secret weapon, but the excitement now is finding out how Durkula will react, what memories he will see to inform him of who Hilgya is, etc.

Given Durkula's aversion to biology as gross and icky, and his inability to understand why Durkon connects memories together, will he even realize Kudzu is Durkon's son?

[Peelee]

I don't know all the rules, but I thought Word of Recall required a specific destination selected when preparing the spell-- and one familiar to the caster. I don't think Durkula can use it in this fashion.

I thin they meant that Word of Recall would pull the vampire back to [guesses as to which location may have been pre-set]. Also, I'd totally say the Vampire gets to use Durkon's memories as his own for proposes of familiarity with teleportation spells.

[Kish]

The next question is: Does Durkon actually know a location in dwarven lands that he still counts as "very familiar with," considering how many years he's been away?

[Ruck]

I thin they meant that Word of Recall would pull the vampire back to [guesses as to which location may have been pre-set]. Also, I'd totally say the Vampire gets to use Durkon's memories as his own for proposes of familiarity with teleportation spells.

Hmm. I thought "Durkon's old bedroom" in Reboot's post referred to his bedroom at his home here in Dwarven Lands, which is somewhere he hasn't been in so long that it would be strange to me if it even qualified as familiar destination to him (edit: I see Kish beat me to this exact point), let alone whatever the rules allow for a vampire as far its host's memories. (I'm less confident in that interpretation than you are, but I'm guessing there's no clear rule on it either way?)

[Kish]

There is no clear rule for how vampires interact with their host's memories--just a throwaway line about someone turned into a vampire being "trapped in a body controlled by a malign intelligence."

[Kareasint]

Okay, Elan, hit them again.

I wonder if our little fire cleric has a 6th level bomb loaded.

Spoiler

Show

Undeath to Death. A mass cure would also be a solid choice. I wonder if V has Slow.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The next question is: Does Durkon actually know a location in dwarven lands that he still counts as "very familiar with," considering how many years he's been away?

Given how little changes for most human sites in the real world, and dwarves being even more stick in the mud change resistant, probably. Heck, it looks like the feast hall probably would qualify.

[Casimir-Ivanova]

Correction to my earlier post: Elan is casting Mass Cure Light (d8 + caster level) while Durkon^T is casting Mass Inflict Serious (3d8 + caster level), so the vampire's spell did 9 more points of negative energy than Elan's did of positive energy, plus 1 per caster level (I don't think we know if Dashing Swordsman adds to Elan's caster level).

Therefore, unless Belkar's unwounded state is an art error, Belkar must have made his Will save against Inflict Serious. Is Death's Little Helper developing ... wisdom?

As my Wisdom 6 Godbound demonstrated during a Spot Check, you can always roll a 20. :P

Although in my case I burned an xp getting one of the standard godbound gifts later on to boost that 6 up to 18, but still, after all the domination saves he failed, he's bound to get lucky once or twice. :D

[dtilque]

Probably the coolest Elan has ever looked. He's never gotten an actual awesome moment without any separate comedy, and now he's actually being serious.

He's vocalizing positive energy to hurt undead, which is a continuation of the previous joke.

Belkar got another turn surprisingly quickly. I'm going to chalk that to rule of funny, I think.

Edit: Err... maybe not. We are back at the top of the initiative. V might have had a poor roll, but everyone else delayed until after V's turn, and now Belkar is back at the top, just after Elan.

That particular vampire was slowed by the Chaos Hammer. According to the rules, that doesn't make any difference to Initiative rolls, although it may in this comic.

[skaddix]

Hmm Roy is really playing back.

[DataNinja]

Prediction: Durkula will plumb Durkon's memories, recognize Hilgya, put two and two together about baby at "the speed of thought", and even if not still, "vulnerable baby among good-aligned adventurers!" and either command his minions after it and/or target kudzu himself, providing a hostage situation in an attempt to get the OOTS to back off and facilitate him and as many minion's as possible escape, AND setting the Stage for Durkon to unleash every memory trick and ounce of resistance he has left to both show his own personal growth and resolve, AND to contribute however he can to save his just realized he had Son. Knowing Rich, the outcome PROBably won't be tragic...or even crazier prediction, Belkar dies saving the child in the middle of all this.... Abjurations protecting Kudzu or not, if enough of that room of vamps targets baby and baby alone...well they ARE team evil.

The vampire hasn't exactly been good at association so far, though. In fact, he's been pretty explicitly bad at it.

[RickDaily12]

Spoiler: This is WAY too appropriate for Blackwing right now.

Show

At least we have a pretty good depiction of what Blackwing IRL would look like.

Now, I do have to admit, now that each member of the Order has entered the fray... that is a LOT fewer dead spawn than I thought we'd see after Hilgya nuked everything with Chaos Hammer.

I doubt this fight is only going to be a pure curb-stomping for the Order as well, so I'm going to bet on Greg having some more aces up his sleeve before his ship goes down in flames. With a low level Cleric of Thor and a literal infant running around that many undead, I have to admit I'm concerned about what happens next...

Still, way to keep it positive, Elan!

[eilandesq]

Hmm Roy is really playing back.

There's a big crowd of badly wounded weak vampires in the middle of the room--a charge followed by a lot of Great Cleaving might take out a whole bunch of them before they can mess up Elan.

[gooddragon1]

Also, just thought of it... avian-ator shades.

[sotanaht]

Correction to my earlier post: Elan is casting Mass Cure Light (d8 + caster level) while Durkon^T is casting Mass Inflict Serious (3d8 + caster level), so the vampire's spell did 9 more points of negative energy than Elan's did of positive energy, plus 1 per caster level (I don't think we know if Dashing Swordsman adds to Elan's caster level).

Therefore, unless Belkar's unwounded state is an art error, Belkar must have made his Will save against Inflict Serious. Is Death's Little Helper developing ... wisdom?

You're taking averages. 3d8 could easily have just been 3, while Elan's 1d8 might have been 8. Dice are fickle things. Plus I don't think an "uninjured" appearance means exactly 100% health.

[SlashDash]

This cartoon does show something I wish D&D sessions had: familiars played as characters. Strictly, they're NPCs, so the DM can play them but DMs have other NPCs to play. I've played Wizards with talking familiars before and offered other players to play the familiar but no one's taken the offer. A pity as familiars could act as an alternative opinion, even with a sarcastic, blunt or other tone the player's PC doesn't use.

We actually did that.

I had a sorcerer who took improved familiar (or whatever it was called) and leadership.

So he had an Archon familiar with an imp Cohort - literally the good and bad angels on my shoulders :)
We had someone who came irregular to our group, so when he did, he played them.
He constantly moved to my left and right when he switched characters.

It came out pretty funny.



We also had something slightly similar back when we first started playing 3e.
I had a Druid who had 4 animal companions : Mouse, cat, dog and hawk
Then he cast awaken on them.

Oddly enough, the mouse ended up with the most HP and all of them had more intelligence than I did.
The DM used to play them as if they were taking shifts babysitting their "special needs" druid.

[RicB76]

Don't know about Blackwings shades. I was glad I was wearing mine when I read this strip! 😎