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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2017

    Default Let's playtest How to host a dungeon V2

    After reading this lovely LP of How to Host a Dungeon, I've discovered a playtest document of a second version!

    The following is me trying to play according to the current playtest rules (April 2018 Draft Version, from the HtHaD V2 Google Group).

    I'll be using MSPaint to create maps.

    Furthermore, I'll be noting my thoughts about some details - after all, this is a playtest version, and I've had great fun with the original HtHaD.

    ================================================== ==========

    Spoiler: Primordial age
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    The Primordial age is used to generate a basic map with various features, resources and dangerous elements.

    Instead of using the location of physical dice on the map or a grid, the game introduces a set of lines to divide the map into 8 zones called "Strata".


    There are six examples given; of note is that one zone serves as "Surface" while the other 7 are "underground layers".


    Spoiler: The six example worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by The six example worlds
    Primordial world #1

    Primordial world #2

    Primordial world #3

    Primordial world #4

    Primordial world #5

    Primordial world #6


    After rolling 1d6 to pick one of the six examples worlds, one generates the feature (Ore, Gems, Caves, Water, Magma, Biome, Nexus or "Just rock") that defines a single zone / stratum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Observations about the "New" Primordial Age
    *I like the example Primordial worlds; this allows a quick start without restricting the creative freedom of a player.
    *I don't like the lack of a warning for players who want to playtest the Magician civilization to create a large Surface Stratum
    *I'd suggest a simple note for such players to create a primordial world "Portrait style" with plenty of space above the surface to allow for the "buried civilization" feature after the Age of Civilization
    After some rolling and MSPainting, here is my world after the Primordial age:


    ================================================== ==========

    Spoiler: Age of Civilization
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    Just as the original incarnation of HtHaD, there are several civilizations to choose from.

    The Dwarves and Demons are back, alongside a new civilization option, the Magicians. The Deep elves are mentioned in the writeup, but are missing rules.
    The Magician civilization is less polished than the Dwarven and Demon civilizations.

    My first playtest shall be using the Dwarves, as these are called out for first-time-players; this is the first time I will be playing HtHaD Version 2, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Observations about the "New" Age of Civilization
    *I like the new layout of civilizations; it is easy to understand and apply.
    *I don't like the lack of rules about multiple civilizations and conflict between civilizations; these rules were great fun in Version 1 of HtHaD.
    *I'd suggest template or set of guidelines to create a civilization to encourage players creating additional content.
    After some more MSPainting, here is my world at the start of the Age of Civilization:


    History Log:
    BW 0
    A mining expedition, spearheaded by newly trained giant moles has found a gold vein!
    Naturally, the enterprising dwarves immediately erected a minor outpost to capitalize on the golden opportunity and founded Malzheim.

    BW 1
    More Dwarves joined the gold mining business;
    Additional vaults, dormitories and a Workshop for Goldsmiths were built.


    ================================================== ==========

    History Log:
    BW 2 -5
    Malzheim grows, adding more vaults, dormitories, a Trophy Hall, a Powerplant, a Smelter, and an Underground Highway (the 'Malzheim Railway').

    ================================================== ==========

    History Log:
    BW 6-8
    Malzheim grows, adding more vaults, dormitories, a Furnace, an Impossible Engine, a Doom Weapon, and an Imperial Throne room, before digging too deep and fleeing from some horror below.


    Quote Originally Posted by Observations about the "New" Age of Civilization, cont.
    *I like the many options when building something.
    *I don't like the reduced danger; with only 1 Nexus "zone" possible and the "Cave" zone having only a 1/10 chance to spawn a Monster, the development of the civilization seems too..."safe", somehow. It seems to progress linearly and steadily without setbacks.
    *I'd suggest to make Fortifications relevant for conflicts in the Age of Monsters. Ooops, apparently fortifications already provide defensive benefits for conflicts in the Age of Monsters.

    ================================================== ================================================== ======
    The Age of Monsters
    Coming soon...
    Last edited by Nigeretalbus; 2018-05-09 at 12:36 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Let's playtest How to host a dungeon V2

    This is fabulous! Thank you so much for playing this on here. These are some great suggestions and observations. I'm working on a small update to the rules now which I think will be done within a week. I'll put some of these ideas in.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2017

    Default Re: Let's playtest How to host a dungeon V2

    The creator himself comments on this LP! I'm honored.

    Onwards, to the Age of Monsters!
    Spoiler: The Age of Monsters
    Show
    This section has - IMO - received the most attention and the most polish. It is new, it is shiney, it features lovely art and simple, straightforward rules...but with all the attention to detail, it may have lost sight of the greater picture.

    *Pros:
    Streamlined actions, monster rules, lovely monster cards with images; there is a monster creation template on the google group which makes creating further monsters easy...
    Just look at this and tell me it's not awesome:



    *Cons:
    Quote Originally Posted by END OF THE AGE OF MONSTERS
    The monster Age ends when one of two things happens:
    1. All the monsters die. If there are no monsters left, the game ends.
    2. You feel like ending the game.
    With all the pizazz of HtHaD V2, the original HtHaD game structure -
    Primordial age to set up a world with resources and dangers,
    Age of Civilization to create a structure of rooms and transforming resources into treasure,
    The Great disaster to add new and interesting map features
    Age of Monsters to view conflict between Surface kingdom and monsters, with monster groups fighting over treasure
    Age of Villainy to bring the epos to a close with an awesome overlord facing a relentless horde of heroes...
    - was elegant and awesome in giving the entire game a purposeful drive - I've marveled again and again how the various ages worked, how they provided the groundwork and resources for the following ages.


    This "cohesive overall structure" seems to be less present in the new draft of the rules; I'd love to re-discover it in future versions of HtHaD V2.


    Spoiler: The Monsters
    Show
    Previously, in HtHaD Version 1, Monsters were divided into four categories (+the Surface Kingdom, + Adventurers):
    Each Monster had the "goal" of collecting 6 or more W (Treasure tokens).

    1) The "delvers" - Monsters that mined resources and dug new rooms - their main method of accumulating W was by transforming gold/mithral/gems into Treasure.
    2) The "breeders" - Monsters that multiplied quickly and used combat to steal loot (W) from their enemies.
    3) The "Alpha predators" - Solitary, powerful monsters that subjugated other monsters and demanded tribute (=treasure) in exchange for peace.
    4) The "Wandering monsters" - Solitary, less powerful monsters with simple encounter rules of mutual loss - these serve to reduce the strength of big groups via attrition.

    5) The Surface kingdom could eventually launch "expeditions" into the underground, and...
    6) Adventurers would occasionally raid the underground, accumulating lots of treasure on their way, possibly escaping with it.

    The "goal" of collecting treasure is gone - the Age of Villainy is missing.

    The Surface kingdom is gone, instead transformed into several monster cards (Farmers/Knights/Starhelm); similarly, Adventurers are replaced by Knights.



    I shall give each monster a number to simulate the whole "shuffle and draw cards" aspect:
    Spoiler: 1. Dwarves
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    A typical "delver" group who can mine resources and build rooms. Since they cannot build more than 1 Hall, and cannot breed, they will likely die from fighting or being hunted.

    Spoiler: 2. Goblins
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    A typical "breeder" group who can steal, ally, bribe and explore, making it quite versatile. They cannot relocate.

    Spoiler: 3. Ogre
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    A typical alpha predator. Since it no longer gets +2 to conflict rolls, it can die from fighting; but the hunt option, alongside ally, extort, recruit and explore make it versatile and dangerous.

    Spoiler: 4. Morlons
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    A flavorful with defensive, magma-themed abilities. "Always explore" leads to many new tunnels; and the "relocate closer to magma or away from enemies" ability is useful.
    The image for "Defenses" on the card refers to Tombs [x], and should be changed to [^]

    Spoiler: 5. Kobolds
    Show

    Kobolds are - like the Morlons "Explorers"; they can prepare advantage(*), they can breed, they can build defenses [^], they can bribe and steal...but they cannot relocate.

    Spoiler: 6. A Wizard
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    According to the symbols, A Wizard is an alpha predator, but it is missing the tag. Possible mistake?
    Anyway, he can explore, exploit, build, recruit, fight...but cannot relocate. A local threat, at most.

    Spoiler: 7. Antlings
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    Aggressive Breeders who can build and harvest a fungus farm. They cannot relocate.

    Spoiler: 8. Purple Worm
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    An highly mobile alpha predator who can exploit gems, and build a few rooms - though since he has no way to gain advantage(*), he must find a group that trades with him before he can build an egg.

    Spoiler: 9. Shadow Hulk
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    A generic alpha predator - hunt, relocate are excellent abilities; prepare gives him an edge in conflicts and emphasizes the "ambush predator" angle. Ally with magical creatures and rout alpha predator are useful for flavor and to survive from a weaker position.

    Spoiler: 10. Nomads
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    Now these monsters are truly interesting and novel! Peaceful traveling traders who can build a trading outpost and eventually leave if they are really rich or very poor.

    Spoiler: 11. Earth Devils
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    Another "delver" group with a good spread of abilities - relocate provides mobility, ally provides defense, trade offers advantage or treasure, breed allows for growth, exploit offers resources for trading, rout alpha predator furthers defense and fight allows combat.

    Spoiler: 12. Orkz
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    Aggressive monsters that can breed, build defenses, ally with alpha predators, relocate, and fight/extort neighbours. I really like them!

    Rennovate is a typo on the card.

    Spoiler: 13. Giant Pike
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    An aquatic alpha predator that can relocate and hunt twice(!) per turn. The "aquatic" feature is very interesting and could be expanded upon.

    Spoiler: 14. Wolves
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    A truly "wandering" monster group who emphasize relocation and numerical superiority, Wolves can stick around for a long time and persistently hunt smaller groups.
    I really like the different "spawn" options depending on the environment.

    Spoiler: 15. Knights
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    Knights are a "Surface" monster group that only spawns on the surface and behaves similarly to Heroes/Expeditions from the original HtHaD.

    Spoiler: 16. Troglodytes
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    Another "delver" group. The "amphibian" tag is interesting...

    Spoiler: 17. Dragon
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    A fat alpha predator who loves sitting on treasure. On my second playtest run, I'll be specifically generating a Cave with one of these in the Primordial Age, just to see how big it gets...

    Spoiler: 18. Vampire
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    A rich alpha predator who has ally, recruit and bribe, making it rather social.

    Spoiler: 19. Ooze
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    The classic mindless breeder. It even retains the old "breeder" ability of splitting into seperate groups (- apart from Oozes, only kobolds can do that)

    Spoiler: 20. Skeletons
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    Mindless monsters that can increase their numbers if they kill stuff with bones.

    Spoiler: 21. Fungaliths
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    Spoiler: 22. Ogre Mage
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    Spoiler: 23. Syndicate
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    Spoiler: 24. Demigod
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    Spoiler: 25. Monstrosity
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    Monstrosity lacks the "Crown" image that alpha predators usually have.


    Spoiler: 26. Cult
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    Spoiler: 27. The Temple
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    Spoiler: 28. Othyugkind
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    (Name might contain a typo: The Art points towards Othyugking)

    Spoiler: 29. Demonic Horde
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    Spoiler: 30. Fiend
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    Spoiler: 31. Blue Wizard
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    I like the "Unique" Tag and rules.

    Spoiler: 32. The Hag
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    Spoiler: 33. Starhelm
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    Spoiler: 34. Farmers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Observations about the "New" Age of Monsters
    *I like the new monster mechanics; I especially like the reduced focus on "Zones of Control" which speeds up & simplifies gameplay.
    *I don't like the loss of a clear finishing point for the Age of Monsters - in the writeup above, I've already expressed my preference for an "Age of Villainy" to follow the "Age of Monsters".
    *I'd suggest to expand upon the "aquatic feature" of the Giant Pike - Just as the Magician civilization ends up "buried", a civilization could end up "flooded" like Atlantis; or you could even design civilizations/monster groups that live underwater and slowly raise the water level, intending to drown their enemies!
    ================================================== =

    Age of Monsters Turn 1:
    *A group of Nomads arrives in Zone 4 via astral caravan.
    Since they have no neighbours to trade with, they explore.

    *A group of Earth Devils arrives in...Zone 4 via Warp Beam.
    This triggers an INVASION!
    =>The Earth devils win, driving out the Nomads and killing some of them. [Nomads lose 1 B]
    The Nomads relocate to Zone 7, into the ruins of Malzheim.

    The Earth devils would like to relocate near ore in Zone 7, but the Nomads are there...so they propose an "Alliance for mutual Benefit". => Ally conflict, Earth devils win.
    With numerical superiority and sharp, still bloody pickaxes as convincing arguments, they eventually reach an agreement with the Nomads to resolve the "tragic misunderstanding".

    *A second group of Earth Devils arrives...on the Surface!
    They have no ore nearby, nor neighbours to fight/ally/trade with, so they wait.

    ============
    * A Fiend appears in......Zone 4 and invades the Earth devils there.
    She loses the fight and is slain. The Treasure (2 W) of the Fiend is left with the 1st Earth Devil group (Now at 2 B 4 W).
    Last edited by Nigeretalbus; 2018-05-28 at 01:00 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Let's playtest How to host a dungeon V2

    I think I'll give this a run through myself. One private to see how it goes and get used to the rules, then I'll do a public one.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
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    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
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    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



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