Up to 15 million players in NA - 40% are women

[ad_hoc]

Some interesting revelations from a recent interview with WotC.

- 12 to 15 million players in NA alone
- 40% of players are women
- 2017 was 'the biggest' year in 44 year history of D&D
- 2017 had a 44% sales growth over 2016

5e is not only growing it is doing so at an astounding rate. It looks like we are going to have this edition for a long time to come.

This completely dwarfs the popularity of D&D in the 80s where Gygax, in 1987, estimated that there were currently 5 million RPG players worldwide and 10 million who had ever played an RPG.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/li...geons-dragons/

[hymer]

It may be worth pointing out that the population of Canada and the US has risen by about 30% since the early eighties. Comparison to those days is a little sketchy just on those grounds,
That said, I'm glad it's doing well. It's well deserved given the work they put into reaching out to the customers.

[strangebloke]

Just speaking anecdotally, when I was growing up DND was squarely in the realm of weirdoes, but now I can invite a bunch of random friends who've never played and get a dozen people together for a one-shot.

[Contrast]

The gender divide is interesting.

I go to a club which plays an assortment of random games and I'd estimate that club is 90% male. Every time I've found a group online it has also been 100% male. Conversely I went to a board game cafe for a game the other day and there were several other groups playing RPGs there which were primarily female. My friend group that I play with is ~60/40 male female though admittedly that has exclusively been couples plus single guys over the years.


Generally speaking I've never really tried to hide the hobby and when people ask what I'm up to on the weekend I'll tell them. I've never received any scorn and quite a few times people have been interested themselves so I'd certainly say it doesn't have the stigma I've gotten the impression it used to have.

[Gastronomie]

The internet is no doubt favorable for the spreading of RPGs. All things considered, it's a good time to play.

[Asmotherion]

Just speaking anecdotally, when I was growing up DND was squarely in the realm of weirdoes, but now I can invite a bunch of random friends who've never played and get a dozen people together for a one-shot.

I know what you mean.

I grew up in that generation, were playing D&D was a one-way ticket to socially brand you as a "nerd" or otherwise outcast of society. Initially, I played behind the scenes (at an earlyer age), but casually defending it as I grew up, and embracing it as (kinda) part of my rock sub-culture and image helped me a lot work on my self-assurance and deal-with-it attitude towards things I have today.

I have mixed feelings about it being socially acceptible today. From one point, I'm happy, because people everywere can enjoy D&D without having to be bullied over it. On the other, I feel like a rebel without cause, as I don't really have a case to activelly defend anymore, and it's just awkward when someone starts a conversation at a coffee house "hey, that's D&D you're playing?", and I'm pumped with excitement and adrenaline answearing "Yeap, why you ask?" looking at them in the eye, and they reply "Cool, I always wanted to give it a try, can I join your group sometime"?

As for the growth in the population of women, there are two simple contributing factors:
A) Generation: When I was a kid, I got my occasional gf to play, and she would bring a friend or two; she might like the game, or might not, but as soon as we broke up, she'd remove her company from the group, as it was "socially awkward" to hang out with us anymore. Same for her friends. In case they did not pick an interest enough in the game, they would drop it, and resume their more "girly" activities", mostly because rules were more complex back then (so you needed a certain amount of dedication to learn them, thus like the game a lot), and, bringing us to the second point, marketing!

B) Marketing: D&D (and the fantasy genre) was branded mostly as a guy's thing in general, back then. Girls sticked to other things, like fashion, music, and getting into D&D too much would be against the social norms. They got a "pass" when it was "playing with their boyfriend", but, even if they liked it, dedicating time to learn the complex rules of the past editions, wile needing to maintain their soccially acceptible "image" was a lot. Nowdays, D&D (and the Fantasy genre) is for everyone, so they have the luxury to choose it as their active interest without being social outcasts, or needing to camouflage under the pretext of "I play D&D only because of my boyfriend" cr@p anymore.

[darknite]

I was DMing at a D&D-only con last weekend and by eyeball guestimate I'd say there easily 40% females in attendance. My tables were nearly always half women and half men.

[Laserlight]

Just speaking anecdotally, when I was growing up DND was squarely in the realm of weirdoes

I've had a couple of people make snarky comments, partly because people are a little afraid of what they don't understand. "It's a combination of board game and improv theater" usually suffices.

[strangebloke]

I've had a couple of people make snarky comments, partly because people are a little afraid of what they don't understand. "It's a combination of board game and improv theater" usually suffices.

"Yeah mom, I'm still meeting with my improv group."

"Had a bunch of friends over for board games yesterday."

I still need to pull this stuff with my mom. When I first started playing 7 years ago, she was really bothered, but didn't/couldn't do anything to stop me. She gave all the usual arguments about getting lost in your own head, wasting time, it being a sign of antisocial behavior, DND having Satanic ties... and though she isn't as vocal these days, she still thinks all of that.

Which is really weird, because since I started playing I've gotten married, finished college, gotten started in a good career, and I'm a sunday school teacher at my local church. She possesses an impressive regard for the corruptive powers of DND. Anyway, I'd just as soon avoid causing her stress so I downplay how much I play to her as much as possible.

...the things we do for love.

[PhoenixPhyre]

"Yeah mom, I'm still meeting with my improv group."

"Had a bunch of friends over for board games yesterday."

I still need to pull this stuff with my mom. When I first started playing 7 years ago, she was really bothered, but didn't/couldn't do anything to stop me. She gave all the usual arguments about getting lost in your own head, wasting time, it being a sign of antisocial behavior, DND having Satanic ties... and though she isn't as vocal these days, she still thinks all of that.

Which is really weird, because since I started playing I've gotten married, finished college, gotten started in a good career, and I'm a sunday school teacher at my local church. She possesses an impressive regard for the corruptive powers of DND. Anyway, I'd just as soon avoid causing her stress so I downplay how much I play to her as much as possible.

...the things we do for love.

That's a bit sad. My mom was dead-set against D&D growing up--she had bought into the whole devil-worship scare. Now she's chill with it--in fact she's glad I'm getting social interaction in person.

[Cespenar]

I'm a tiny bit suspect of those figures being at least somewhat inflated for marketing purposes. It's similar to the private company pieces in business magazines: "Market-leading company X is expecting a whopping Y% growth this year!"

Even then, though, the growth of the hobby and the continual shedding of some biases are apparent.

I think the way they went with the design of 5e was also a good tactical move in line with these changes.

[strangebloke]

That's a bit sad. My mom was dead-set against D&D growing up--she had bought into the whole devil-worship scare. Now she's chill with it--in fact she's glad I'm getting social interaction in person.

Spoiler: stories about my mom

Show

Yeah. My mom is an intelligent, hardworking person, but when an idea takes hold in her head (dnd is evil) it absolutely will not let go of her.

She still believe that Harry Potter contains devil-worship, despite being married to my father, who will argue strongly that the book series contains overtly Christian themes, and places his copies next to Chronicles of Narnia on his bookshelf. She's never read the books; my father has.

She's actually (unknowingly) played a TTRPG with me at one point. It was a lite, gamey system that was designed to let people play as bachelorettes from a Jane Austen novel who are all trying to maximize their marrying potential. I sold it to her as a board game. She loved it, and really got into the roleplaying aspect, and never realized that she was about 1 step away from DND.

Yeah. Things are changing fast on this front though. I think a lot of people my age group have trouble making/keeping friends, and DND is a major catalyst for the formation of strong friend groups. So while once the people who went off by themselves to play their games were the antisocial ones... now TTRPG players are more sociable than their peers. I've got a massive friend group, and a lot of that is based off of the board game parties and one-shots I host.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Spoiler: stories about my mom

Show

Yeah. My mom is an intelligent, hardworking person, but when an idea takes hold in her head (dnd is evil) it absolutely will not let go of her.

She still believe that Harry Potter contains devil-worship, despite being married to my father, who will argue strongly that the book series contains overtly Christian themes, and places his copies next to Chronicles of Narnia on his bookshelf. She's never read the books; my father has.

She's actually (unknowingly) played a TTRPG with me at one point. It was a lite, gamey system that was designed to let people play as bachelorettes from a Jane Austen novel who are all trying to maximize their marrying potential. I sold it to her as a board game. She loved it, and really got into the roleplaying aspect, and never realized that she was about 1 step away from DND.

Yeah. Things are changing fast on this front though. I think a lot of people my age group have trouble making/keeping friends, and DND is a major catalyst for the formation of strong friend groups. So while once the people who went off by themselves to play their games were the antisocial ones... now TTRPG players more sociable than their peers. I've got a massive friend group, and a lot of that is based off of the board game parties and one-shots I host.

And this effect spreads--knowing people who play D&D and knowing that they're (relatively) normal makes others much more receptive. It's a reason I hate the neckbeard/autist/sexist stereotypes of gamers--it makes it harder to convince people to play.

[Willie the Duck]

The gender divide is interesting.
I go to a club which plays an assortment of random games and I'd estimate that club is 90% male. Every time I've found a group online it has also been 100% male. Conversely I went to a board game cafe for a game the other day and there were several other groups playing RPGs there which were primarily female. My friend group that I play with is ~60/40 male female though admittedly that has exclusively been couples plus single guys over the years.

I have to assume that it is just like: fantasy football, ultimate disc, poker, paintball, and all sorts of other sports where the people in the 'out and proud, proselytizing and professing,' fandom are mostly male, but the total interested party is 10-49% female.

Generally speaking I've never really tried to hide the hobby and when people ask what I'm up to on the weekend I'll tell them. I've never received any scorn and quite a few times people have been interested themselves so I'd certainly say it doesn't have the stigma I've gotten the impression it used to have.

I feel that the stigma has dropped (in most places, I guess I knew but didn't internalize that there were still people who bought the whole Satanism thing) to the point where it's just like being any other type grown adult with any other purely recreational hobby. It's just like Joe at work who goes to vintage car shows all summer of Jane who spends her weekends flying elaborate kites--maybe an eyebrow and a 'to each their own' kind of comment.

[JakOfAllTirades]

My folks hated RPG's, right up until the first royalty check came in....

[Lacuna Caster]

Some interesting revelations from a recent interview with WotC.

- 12 to 15 million players in NA alone
- 40% of players are women
- 2017 was 'the biggest' year in 44 year history of D&D
- 2017 had a 44% sales growth over 2016

5e is not only growing it is doing so at an astounding rate. It looks like we are going to have this edition for a long time to come.

I'd be more interested if I could get statistics on the number that play other RPGs.

[Theodoxus]

Anecdotally, of course, I've seen a rise in female players at our FLGS for AL nights. It helps that two of the DMs are women. I think it encourages other women to at least check it out.

The tables are no where near 40/60 though. I'd hazard probably closer to 15-20% female. But it's definitely progress - when I first started AL there, it was 1 female player. Now each table has at least 1, though often it's the DM

[LordEntrails]

I will add that I think one of the reason AL/FLGS games are still primarily male is simply the setting.

I'm sorry guys, but would you walk into a shop full of women and sit down at a table with them? Especially if you expected or had experienced sex-based side-comments that made you uncomfortable?

The game store is still a male haven. Most are run by men, decorated by men, and frequented by men. Very few (I've never seen one) that is accommodating to women.

Home play and online play don't have any of those restrictions or problems.

[Willie the Duck]

I'm sorry guys, but would you walk into a shop full of women and sit down at a table with them? Especially if you expected or had experienced sex-based side-comments that made you uncomfortable?

Who exactly are you talking to? The many many foolish guys here who somehow didn't know that?

The game store is still a male haven. Most are run by men, decorated by men, and frequented by men. Very few (I've never seen one) that is accommodating to women.

There is definitely something to be said for critical mass. Once a store gets to maybe ~20% female attendance, getting up near 40-50% should be possible (it's the getting to 20% that's the hard part, and no one seems to know how to do that).

[2D8HP]

From '79 to about '86 I really only saw boys play D&D, and other RPG's, but the percentage increased until I stopped playing games in '92 (I didn't stop because more women were playing, one very fun game of Shadowrun was mostly women).

Of the three games that mostly replaced D&D at the tables I could find in the early '90's, Champions had a few women players (about the same percentage as my last games of AD&D, Cyberpunk was all male, and Vampire was about half women.

Oddly the first adults who I knew to play D&D (who didn't work at a game shop) were my Dad's girlfriend, and her female friend, who upon seeing me carrying the Player's Handbook in '79 proceeded to describe their games of D&D in great detail (I wouldn't have guessed otherwise).

They mostly compared it to Lord of the Rings, and I could tell by how they said the monsters get tougher the deeper the dungeon level, that they had more experience than me.

[Theodoxus]

There is definitely something to be said for critical mass. Once a store gets to maybe ~20% female attendance, getting up near 40-50% should be possible (it's the getting to 20% that's the hard part, and no one seems to know how to do that).

Eh, I think my FLGS will. They're run by a husband/wife owner. The store's primary mission statement is to get people into playing board games. They have a free to use library of games and then sell everything (that isn't out of print) on side boards. While their AL nights are primarily male, their Board Game nights are actually more female. The ladies know the existence of the store, and there is more and more cross-fraternization between the boarders and the TTRPGers. It's the creepy old wargamers that neither set likes ;)

Ah the power of a common enemy - lol

Seriously though, it's not hard to be accommodating to the fairer sex. Just don't be creepy and offer up options that aren't just murder-hoboism.

One of the biggest epiphanies I had when i was an older teen, 30 odd years ago - women are humans too. Shocking, I know. And anything I like, they might like, and vice versa. It'd be nice if one day our society as a whole came around to that simple idea...

[strangebloke]

There is definitely something to be said for critical mass. Once a store gets to maybe ~20% female attendance, getting up near 40-50% should be possible (it's the getting to 20% that's the hard part, and no one seems to know how to do that).

Girlfriends, sisters, female friends, wives, kids. If people enjoy DND, they'll invite their connections. Obviously a guy will invite more guys in this way than females, but no guy has 0 female acquaintances. Being in a space dominated by the opposite gender is a lot less scary if you're there with a friend.

Also, some women have been playing for a while and are confident enough to not shy away from a group of males. Heck, I've known women who preferred hanging out in 'male spaces' as opposed to 'female spaces.' I've also known women who love the extra attention that comes with being the only female in the room. (This is distinct from a woman who simply prefers the company of guys.)

To reverse that, I've also known guys that would be more interested in DND if it was primarily a female hobby.

[2D8HP]

...anything I like, they might like, and vice versa. It'd be nice if one day our society as a whole came around to that simple idea.

Dude, what are you saying?!!

That kind of thinking leads to cooties!!!

[Naanomi]

I’ll bet some female dominated tables help shore up those numbers... of the 9 normal participants at the game I run (myself included) there are 2 men, 7 women, and 1 non-binary person

[ad_hoc]

Conversely I went to a board game cafe for a game the other day and there were several other groups playing RPGs there which were primarily female.

Yeah, I think the same sorts of people who play at board game cafes are playing D&D.

I have a good number of friends who aren't long time hobby gamers who are playing now completely separate from me. Also, when it comes up in my dates the person usually at least has friends who play and are interested in it.

Like Settlers of Catan (Ticket to Ride, etc.) 5e has jumped over the hobby gamer divide. It doesn't hurt that it is designed to be inclusive too.

[2D8HP]

...Like Settlers of Catan (Ticket to Ride, etc.) 5e has jumped over the hobby gamer divide. It doesn't hurt that it is designed to be inclusive too.

I don't think it' coincidental, but when Vampire and other WoD stuff was the only game books at the chain bookstores (Barnes & Noble, and Borders), those games had more women players than other RPG's, both percentage-wise and total.

Now that 5e Dungeons & Dragons is on the shelves at Barnes & Noble, that game has more women players.

I'm also seeing more women working at Game shops now as well.

It's great!

Except for the cooties.

[Slipperychicken]

As long as I've been gaming (2011 - present), my tables have been remarkably mixed gender-wise. The 40% figure sounds accurate to my experience. That was college kids and mid-20s people getting into it, so I'm not willing to chalk it up to girlfriends, daughters, and wives alone.

The inclusion efforts are important, but I also think that the prioritization of convenience in roleplaying rules has eroded some of the male nerd chauvinism that may have excluded women before. Basically the idea that it doesn't strictly need to be an overcomplicated mess. It helped that we've had a community very much focused on helping people get in and make sense of it despite how hard it was. And then you have free publicity in the form of numerous references from pop culture, which has probably boosted awareness more than anything else.

I'm a tiny bit suspect of those figures being at least somewhat inflated for marketing purposes. It's similar to the private company pieces in business magazines: "Market-leading company X is expecting a whopping Y% growth this year!"

Even then, though, the growth of the hobby and the continual shedding of some biases are apparent.

I think the way they went with the design of 5e was also a good tactical move in line with these changes.

I think Wizards' 44% growth number is exaggerated in part by 5th edition dnd cannibalizing players of older editions and PF, but also because of 3rd edition's non-monetized play (loads of people just used d20srd.com, dandwiki, and pirated books), and that they're selling more than just rulebooks. But I will agree with the general idea that roleplayng is experiencing strong growth; I constantly hear interest online and off, people looking for groups, figuring out how to enter the hobby.

[ad_hoc]

I think Wizards' 44% growth number is exaggerated in part by 5th edition dnd cannibalizing players of older editions and PF, but also because of 3rd edition's non-monetized play (loads of people just used d20srd.com, dandwiki, and pirated books), and that they're selling more than just rulebooks. But I will agree with the general idea that roleplayng is experiencing strong growth; I constantly hear interest online and off, people looking for groups, figuring out how to enter the hobby.

This is the difference from 2016 to 2017 though not the difference of 3e to 5e.

Amazon sales rankings corroborate that 5e is selling extremely well and growing in sales over time.

[Gryndle]

The gender divide is interesting.

I go to a club which plays an assortment of random games and I'd estimate that club is 90% male. Every time I've found a group online it has also been 100% male. Conversely I went to a board game cafe for a game the other day and there were several other groups playing RPGs there which were primarily female. My friend group that I play with is ~60/40 male female though admittedly that has exclusively been couples plus single guys over the years.


Generally speaking I've never really tried to hide the hobby and when people ask what I'm up to on the weekend I'll tell them. I've never received any scorn and quite a few times people have been interested themselves so I'd certainly say it doesn't have the stigma I've gotten the impression it used to have.

with the exceptions of my current group and my first group, the majority of players I have gamed with have been female. I know that's the exception, rather than the rule. But the lady gamers are out there, it doesn't surprise me that WotC is saying 40%.