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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Wrecan's Avatar

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Well, from the current comic, we now know why V and Haley were put in the same cell together: Miko respected the roommate preferences OOTS gave her back at the hotel.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Silivren

    Eh, no, not really. As you yourself quoted, what made him an opposite was that his gender identity was CLEARLY DEFINED, not what gender it was. It has been well established that being an evil opposite does not require them to be opposite on all axes, only on one or two things. They usually have more in common than not, particularly in gender.

    In fact, with the exception of Hilgya, every evil opposite yet revealed has had the SAME gender as their OotS counterpart. This, if anything, leads to the conclusion that V is most likely MALE, just like Pompey.
    Well hello there gorgeous, I think I might just be the man for you

    He is an evil opposite! Now get away from my woman ear boy.

    You were saying...
    any questions.
    I'm pretty sure that makes this official... V is a female
    There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

  3. - Top - End - #273
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1

    Well hello there gorgeous, I think I might just be the man for you

    He is an evil opposite! Now get away from my woman ear boy.

    You were saying...
    any questions.
    I'm pretty sure that makes this official... V is a female
    Hahaha.... nope. I'll fix your quote for you:

    Pompey: Well hello there gorgeous, I think I might just be the man for you!

    Nale: Hey! A Clearly-established gender identity! He is an Evil Opposite! Now get away from my woman, ear boy.

    Quite obviously, its the clearly established aspect that's leading to the conclusion he's an evil opposite.

    Your misquoted evidence does not a solid argument make. Nor does your throwing down a flawed and flaccid argument and then declaring victory.

    Though it is vaguely funny to watch.

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  4. - Top - End - #274
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Oh, come on! I can't believe you people! It's incredibly obvious that V is MALE! Just look at all the evidence stacked up in every comic that HE's been in!
    Note to self: Do not look into laser with remaining eye.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Oh, come on! I can't believe you people! It's incredibly obvious that V is FEMALE! Just look at all the evidence stacked up in every comic that SHE's been in!
    Note to self: Do not look into laser with remaining eye.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Exactly! ;)
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  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    i vote none of the above
    die foolish mortal!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Obviously Varsuuvius needs to be stripped naked and examined closely. I'd go with dissection, magical autopsy, a decent physical examiner or a gynecologists with willing test subjects for any seed and/or eggs there might be.

    Until V spawns a legacy we will never know... maybe not even then.

    Giant is not going to tell us soon.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Silivren
    Your misquoted evidence does not a solid argument make. Nor does your throwing down a flawed and flaccid argument and then declaring victory.

    Though it is vaguely funny to watch.
    Yes Yoda (if thats where you are coming from), you are indeed very wise.
    Note that I was excerpting and now on to the body of my argument.
    And that it is true that he doesn't have to be a completely evil opposite on the basis of gender. However, you must also admit that you questioned the gender and I have disproved your claims which does validate the evidence that I submitted to some extent (perhaps beyond reasonable doubt, however of that I am still uncertain).
    Now as to V's gender, more likely than not (not with absolute certainty) V is female due to the culmination of evidence provided in the comic (see previous posts). Although I would be intrigued to see your rebuttal (with some evidence please). It could possibly change my views.
    BTW: I don't like being mean, so don't think of anything I say as being mean (its just part of the argument).
    There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1
    Yes Yoda (if thats where you are coming from), you are indeed very wise.
    ACTUALLY I was crudely paraphrasing from "To Althea, from Prison" by Richard Lovelace. The original (oft quoted) lines go:
    ...
    Stone Walls do not a prison make,
    Nor iron bars a cage;
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1
    Note that I was excerpting and now on to the body of my argument.
    Perhaps, but quoting everything in the panel EXCEPT the portion that substantially weakened your argument (by taking away the connection you wanted to imply between Pompey's male-ness and Nale's declaration of his evil-opposiite-ness) is being suspicisiously selective
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1
    However, you must also admit that you questioned the gender
    I'm not sure which gender you're claiming I questioned, but I did not question whether Pompey was male. I simply pointed out that it was irrelevant, as the phrasing of the dialogue clearly implied that Nale was drawing his "evil opposite" conclusion from the fact that Pompey had displayed a very clear gender identity. In this case, it was stereotypical "male-ness", but I submit that had pompey been female and displayed stereotypical "female-ness," Nale would have come to the same conclusion.
    Of course, none of this proves whether V is male or female, it simply demonstrates that the echange doesn't prove ANYTHING, other than that V's gender is ambiguous, which we already knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1
    Title of episode 240 is when ------ attack
    This one's been pretty thoroughly disproven, but i'll add my 2 cp. Not only does this argument rely on the false assumption that all whores are female, but it is also patently false in that Roy, Vaarsuvius, and Haley are not whores. This renders it thoroughly unreliable as a source of evidence.

    Well, I was going to look through and discuss your other arguments, but it seems thats all you put forth.

    A number of the "V is female" arguments i've seen tend to rely on V's discussion of clothes/and or emotions, with the conclusion that "a male would never talk like that." Well, I hate to tell ya, but I've known PLENTY of guys who have gotten into discussions on just those matters, and some of them have expressed opinions not that far from V's. Frankly, those arguments are based on "macho" expectations that really don't have much basis in reality. On the flip side, however, there are the more aggressive (ie, stereotypical male) things V has done, but I've known women who have behaved along those lines as well. Generally, I'd say any argument based on analizing his behavior for stereotypical gender identities is ulitimately entirely subjective. Also, it wouldn't prove anything about his biological gender anyway.

    Camilla pretty much nailed it as far as determining that. Without a detailed medical examination, we won't be able to prove much of anything. And any character within the strip who hasn't done that can't be considered a reliable source. After all, the other members of the OotS have already demonstrated that they are unsure, and they have traveled with him for some time. If they can't tell by now, some character who just met V isn't likely to be able to tell accurately.

    Actually, the most complete evidence I've seen so far is in #186, where V is dressing behind the dragon's tail. Now, in the OotS drawing style, all males have a rectangular body, and all females have a "bean" shaped body. What we can see of V's upper torso definitely is straight vertical line, consistent with a rectangle. However, one could still argue that V is just not the most "shapely" female. Still, its the most concrete evidence we've had to date.

    And my apologies to Devils Advocate, as he pretty much covered all this in the very first post
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  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Okay I don't think I've chimed in with my correct answer in this version of the thread... so... without further ado... getting right ot the point...

    V is an Elf. A power mad, doily master, physics breaking, pedantic Elf.

    As we all know from watching Lord of the Rings, all Elfs are sexless. I mean come on Arwen and Aragon never get it on and there is no way anyone could resist Viggo Mortensen, so ergo Elfs are sexless.


    Actual Best Answer So Far: V's player never bother marking in the gender box as the player is to preoccupied with minmaxing and powergaming.
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  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Sorry, Evileeyore, but if you read your PHB you'll find that Elves clearly have both genders.

    And all of us that play DnD know that a DM's favorite thing to do is mess with the players. Rich has already done this with one messed up letter in each cypher.

    In my game, the DM said we had met 3 Gods, I figured out 2, but to this day I don't know the third.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    You may also note that the first team of evil adventurers none of them were of any different Gender, we assume Vaarsuvius knows the difference between the genders of his/her own race and V refer's to his/her evil counterpart as MR. Zz'dtri, remember? Back when V was trying to get the FLY spell... thus we may assume that V is a HE...
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyserpent
    You may also note that the first team of evil adventurers none of them were of any different Gender
    Hilgya/Durkon?
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  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    :o
    whoops... right...

    dag...

    hmm I think that was probably for story purposes so that Durkon, who ended up in a seperate kind of confrontation would have something a bit less like the others. a fight between two Clerics tend to be a little odd... "Inflict light wounds!" "Cure Light Wounds!" Considering their role as support I think they needed a less "Beat you over the head with a heavy object" type of duel. Which the Giant pulled off impressively...

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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Still, that gives V an 80% chance of being male.
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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by evileeyore
    As we all know from watching Lord of the Rings, all Elfs are sexless. I mean come on Arwen and Aragon never get it on and there is no way anyone could resist Viggo Mortensen, so ergo Elfs are sexless...
    I always thought it looked more like Arwen was trying to steer Aragorn away from 'oh dear the world's in trouble and it's all my responsibility to save it' towards 'hey I've got a really sexy elf girl in a translucent dress hanging off my arm. Maybe things aren't so bad after all'.
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  18. - Top - End - #288
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    CelebrenIthil's Avatar

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Yes, and the way Aragorn kissed her in the last movie - looked like he was going to eat half of her face O.o - you can't say they never did anything.

    But anyway, you must remember elves are far from being the most masculine species. While dwarves of both sex are of a constitution closer to human males (strong, sturdy, beardy...), elves are closer to the human females, being sleek, graceful, refined and technically having no(less) facial (or body) hair.

    Also, leaving D&D world and coming back to Tolkien's...
    If you read the Silmarillon (not sure it's also called like this in English), you'll see they say Elves are the most perfect species created by the Valars. They have both genders but they all have this hermaphrodite looks to them. Because perfection is the perfect harmony between the opposites.
    So either elves look girlish, either they look hermaphrodite. I personally think it's the latter.

    Thus, coming back to Vaarsuvius, if it's a he, he's an elf, he sure would look and act (and wear clothing *coughcircletcough*) girlier than our standard human male. If it's a she, then maybe she isn't as "busty" as the stereotype depiction of the sexy elf female we usually get from fantasy male artist drawing their *coughfantasiescough*. Theorically speaking, I think elf females would not have really ...impressive... females features because it's a race that is more hermaphrodite-looking. It's works with both genders.

    Also, the typical elf has long hair, so this is neither a clue, and thick flowing robes can hide a lot of stuff... As for the circlet, it's a yellow line, we can't really tell if it's really girlish looking. And remember kids - elf fashion is not human fashion! XD

    Vaarsuvius is a scholar, thus using refined phrases constructions. Vaarsuvius is also well-behaved, as any elf scholar should be. Doesn't tell anything about gender. The fact he/she may seem to get along better with Haley is maybe simply because she's one of the most refined members of the group.
    (Durkon isn't the most, you must admit (plus it's a dwarf, it's stereotyped but elves and dwarves are kinda opposites), Elan is a little dim-witted for a mage, Belkar... do I really have to say anything? Roy finally is intelligent and kinda well-educated. V and he seems to get along well too (Roy giving friendly nickname to V, V giving his/her ever-loyal services to him even if Miko was getting on his/her nerves). They don't seem as close as the pair V-Haley but then again, males are acting a little less closer to their friends than females do. (girls will hug and kiss their other girls/boys friends, but then, guys don't seem very comfortable in doing such, eh?))
    Well that was a long parenthesis!

    Finally, I can live pretty well with the fact I don't know Vaarsuvius' gender, and no matter how much we all try, there will ALWAYS be something that contradicts (does that word exists? O.o") any hypothesis we'll all try to make.
    Until the truth is revealed, for sure. ;D

    Vaarsuvius is some kind of hermaphrodite in my mind, and I usually refer to she/he in the masculine way because in French masculine "wins over the feminine" when we talk about something with no specified gender. (yeah I speak French so forgive any mispelled/invented word/sentence construction/verb tense I did, pretty please. ^^"" )

    What REALLY bugs me actually, is that Vaarsuvius is MARRIED!!! ;D
    I want to know more about V's mate! Is it an human, elf, [insert random race here]??? Class? Gender? (then again you can say knowing this will also give us the knowlegde of V's gender but then again, there is still a possibility of gay marriage (probably allowed in the elf standards since they are an intelligent and evolved species) and that V may be a shemale or something. These possibilities could gross out some of the most conservatives folks here, but they are a valid option nonetheless (CelebrenIthil does not guarantee the spelling of that word, and neither "guarantee" by the way...¬_¬" ))

    That was a pretty long post but Rejoice! It's finished!((hope you weren't incapacitated by it's lenght or the numerous parenthesis...) And it was my first here so if you don't mind I'm going to celebrate by going to bed now. :D
    Yay!





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  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Well stated! ;D

    I have a feeling if V's mate is another Elf, the Giant will make his/her gender just as ambiguous as V's, just to frustrate us all the further ;)
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  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Wow.... that was amazingly well put....

    One addition, while revealing some information about V's mate would release information as to the sexual identity, releasing other information would not. If, for example, we were to be given occupation and the like, just not the sexual identity of the mate, it leaves the ambiguity for us to speculate.

    YAY for big words...

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Also, if only Belkar had taken a few ranks in Knowledge(reproductive organs of lizards) then there wouldn't be any debate, so I say we blame it all on the halfling (that way we can piss him off and give him a nice long list of people to kill ^_^ ). I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    ((lol, ok, I did not go to bed right away but I was trying to fix my avatar and signature...))

    Heheh, thanks boys! (or maybe I shouln'd say that, after all, you're unidentified gendered, frazzgnarth! (another hermaphrodite maybe?!? ;D lol, it could be! It's not because it's almost as common as being albino (wich is really really uncommon) that it's not a valid option! (lol, ok, I calm down with the ever-so-wonderful-uncommon-differences-given-by-nature...))

    I'm glad you see my point. And as I said, I don't care if we don't know it's sex, I would just like to hear some more about V's mate. I actually would like to learn more about every characters' family and past *looks at the "begginings of OOT ads, drooling* but this is not the topic... ^^"""

    Oh well...SHAME ON YOU BELKAR!

    *pokes with a stick* ::)
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  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    *pokes back* seeing as Belkar certainly wasn't going to do it, I shall have to be his stand-in.... FRAZZGNARTH THE IMPIOUS!! Now now, we can't be letting myself go without gender... so we'll call me male.

    and seeing as this is a debate about V's gender, I should add something about that... uhh.... I think V is male (ah, i feel much better now)

  24. - Top - End - #294
    Gilganarz
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Silivren


    A number of the "V is female" arguments i've seen tend to rely on V's discussion of clothes/and or emotions, with the conclusion that "a male would never talk like that." Well, I hate to tell ya, but I've known PLENTY of guys who have gotten into discussions on just those matters, and some of them have expressed opinions not that far from V's. Frankly, those arguments are based on "macho" expectations that really don't have much basis in reality. On the flip side, however, there are the more aggressive (ie, stereotypical male) things V has done, but I've known women who have behaved along those lines as well. Generally, I'd say any argument based on analizing his behavior for stereotypical gender identities is ulitimately entirely subjective. Also, it wouldn't prove anything about his biological gender anyway.
    My theory (as said at around page 16) is that V's talk about clothes is simply another way of humour through breaking sterotypes. Not beacuse V may be male but because a wizard genareally doesn't care about those sorts of things. In fact, V tends to see much greater problems as beneath him/her, which makes it even more humourous.

    I belive there was a definite male phase at the beginning
    before the giant realised there was a joke to use there. I think V is still slightly more male because I couldn't imagine a woman talking the way he/she does. Not intellectually I mean (I'm a debator and have often been left in the dust by a female member of the opposition) but simply beacuse the speech sounds masculine to me.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Pfffttt... Rich can't watch himself all the time. The man slips up and mentioned V as a he. The first comic identifying the elf's gender was as a he. The Elf has a male name and although that could be transpired as neutral in a fantasy world the fantasy world derives from the real world. In any case it can only construe towards a male V and not the other case.
    Rich stated V as a male first, he didn't slip up and declare him a she (first anyway).
    Obviously a clever marketing ploy, but a good one for the comic at that. Also the elf is somewhat androgynous but most people see him as a he, people have a pretty good eye at this and the larger group is usually right in such a matter... but the latter argument is unimportant.

    You really think the Giant posts just happened to be playing with us? Despite the evidence to the contrary and the female 'proof' being added post the male proof?

    Wishful thinking, Rich forgot himself and that's it. The most likely conclusion; the alternative is to trip sub-intentionally and double up with a motive for his mistake.

    There was a 'he' phase to begin with. The elf was a male but what he is now may have been changed by the good Rich.

    IMHO there is a strong tendency for the female V arguments to center on defence.

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Camilla
    Pfffttt... Rich can't watch himself all the time. The man slips up and mentioned V as a he. The first comic identifying the elf's gender was as a he.
    [snip]
    This has already been gone over several times in the thread. Rich calling V "he" is neither a "slip up" nor him "toying with us". In the English language, if the gender is unknown, "he" is used. And if the thing in the comic "identifying" V's gender was a character, that indicates nothing except what that character thinks.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by evileeyore
    As we all know from watching Lord of the Rings, all Elfs are sexless. I mean come on Arwen and Aragon never get it on and there is no way anyone could resist Viggo Mortensen, so ergo Elfs are sexless.
    Given that they had at least one son (and an undetermined number of daughters) that's mighty peculiar. ;)

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    addressing the comment on the fact that V's speech seems masculine:

    V's speech is not masculine as much as it's 'High-and-Mighty' or 'superior' a feeling more often associated with men... however in the fantasy setting we have alternate races to consider, I think that even if V is a She s/he would take the same tone considering the whole Elves are better than anyone. Which is a common elvish cliche...
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  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer

    I always thought it looked more like Arwen was trying to steer Aragorn away from 'oh dear the world's in trouble and it's all my responsibility to save it' towards 'hey I've got a really sexy elf girl in a translucent dress hanging off my arm. Maybe things aren't so bad after all'.
    yeah, you know if i had an elf-girl, i'd stuff the world and breach the peace somewhere.

    and elves having no bodyhair.... that gives me images :P
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate II

    I think this argument is moot (hehe MOOT). If the Giant does have a gender in his mind for V, if he reveals it, it will probably be when they travel to the elflands or something, wasn't one of the gate makers an elf? I'll have to check. o uh [SPOILER] I guess that was sort of a prediction. And then we'll meet V's mate or sumthin. Until then, the Giant will probably be just dropping hints both ways or ways that can be interpreted as both. I originally thought V was male because of his/her name, until Belkar mentioned he/she was gender ambiguous.

    [SPOILER][SPOILER][SPOILER] Just for good measure, have to follow the rules!

    edit: Yes Lirian the elf, the one whose magical door Dorukan wanted in to

    edit: nvm previous edit, forest fire
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