V's Gender Debate II

[Leeroy]

Thingy of forbidden something? hehe u surely got your names right ;D. And Sylian, they all look the same. only hair (and bodies) makes them speciel, and if u made V bald He/She Whatever, would look like the others (if they were bald too)

[Wrecan]

V is male. http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...otscript?SK=49 Mr. Zz'dtri. Mr.
He looks like V. So V is male.

Or V uses the "male" pronoun as a default, as is appropriate in the English language. V may have no idea what gender Zz'dtri is and Zz'dtri didn't care enough to confirm or deny it.

[mcc]

Three rooms. I room only with Miss Starshine.

Now I know the giant is toying with us... :O

[Solara]

Well, it was Miko who said that the women would share a room with the "elf", (There's that word again... Grrr...) and we all know how V feels about her, so it's no surprise he didn't want her around, though it's already been established in previous comics he doesn't mind sharing a room with Haley. (No I have know idea what THAT may imply and I'm not getting into here...)

Funny how Miko seems to dislike V so strongly, yet she still has no problem sharing a room with him?

And as fuel for the fire in the gender debate, like most of the strips that contain "evidence" it could be interpreted both ways. Do women in general just feel safer around male elves (as opposed to male humans, dwarves, and murderous halflings) when it comes to sharing a room, does this have to do with V being married, or with V being female?

Also, she said "the women and the elf" not classifying V among "the women"...yet then again she always calls V "elf". So we're back to square one.

The Giant is cruel. :D

[Toothy_Grin]

Funny how Miko seems to dislike V so strongly, yet she still has no problem sharing a room with him?

Well, Miko obviously also can't stand Haley, or any of them for that matter.

This comic may well be support for V being female, if Miko automatically puts V in with the women. Miko wouldn't know much of their backstory (i.e., their sleeping preferences) and thus would have little other reason for placing V with the females by default other than seeing her as clearly female.

Although she could have wrongly assumed V to be female....

DARNIT!!! :-/

[Jades]

In this case, I don't think that "the elf" is a racist comment. I'm not all over the place on this, either. Much like "women" isn't a sexist slur. Now, if she had said "one for Roy, Elan, Belkar, and Durkon; and one for Haley, the elf, and myself" it would have.

[Nightmarenny]

Well, it was Miko who said that the women would share a room with the "elf", (There's that word again... Grrr...) and we all know how V feels about her, so it's no surprise he didn't want her around, though it's already been established in previous comics he doesn't mind sharing a room with Haley. (No I have know idea what THAT may imply and I'm not getting into here...)

Funny how Miko seems to dislike V so strongly, yet she still has no problem sharing a room with him?

And as fuel for the fire in the gender debate, like most of the strips that contain "evidence" it could be interpreted both ways. Do women in general just feel safer around male elves (as opposed to male humans, dwarves, and murderous halflings) when it comes to sharing a room, does this have to do with V being married, or with V being female?

Also, she said "the women and the elf" not classifying V among "the women"...yet then again she always calls V "elf". So we're back to square one.

The Giant is cruel. :D

Miko dousn't dislike V. The way she treats her is more a product of oblivios-ness. She doesn't relise that she is ticking her off because she is an elf. As a human I doubt she finds being mentioned through race unrespectful.

Its like how some women get really pissed if men use the term "women" when one doesn't know something but then turns around and say "men" as an insult and doesn't get a reaction.

[Devils_Advocate]

This comic may well be support for V being female, if Miko automatically puts V in with the women. Miko wouldn't know much of their backstory (i.e., their sleeping preferences) and thus would have little other reason for placing V with the females by default other than seeing her as clearly female.

Given her phrasing, I would think that Miko at least doesn't expect the innkeeper to clearly identify V as female. Otherwise, wouldn't she simply say "I require two rooms, one for the men, and one for the women"? And I don't think she would expect anyone else to be uncertain/mistaken about Vaarsuvius's gender if it seemed clear to her. If anything, she seems to be impicitly acknowledging V's androgeny.

Maybe she overheard that V was married and so thought it would be fine regardless. Or maybe elven males have a better reputation than their counterparts in other species?

[Haggis_McCrablice]

--Haley wants to room with Vaarsuvius because he's (and I use that term loosely) the only one she really feels comfortable with in the group. She's probably worried about getting all giggly and girly with Elan, becasue she has a crush on him. Belkar is a little psycho; Roy obviously doesn't trust Haley and can be very brusque and judgemental of her lifestyle, and Durkon--well, maybe he snores, and, besides, he's got that freaky tree phobia. Ironically V may be the most normal and hangup-free of the lot.... ::)

[phlip]

V is male. http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...otscript?SK=49

Mr. Zz'dtri. Mr.
He looks like V. So V is male.

Yeah, because Hilgya is female, and so is Dur... wait. Seriously. This is even mentioned in the first post in this thread (you did read the first post in the thread, didn't you?).
Speaking of which, nice work there Devils, you spotted a bunch of stuff I missed.

However there's no reason to rely on a little "Mr" or a "He doesn't say much" - Zz'dtri is a Drizzt clone after all, of course he'll be male, since Drizzt is.

[Leeroy]

However there's no reason to rely on a little "Mr" or a "He doesn't say much" - Zz'dtri is a Drizzt clone after all, of course he'll be male, since Drizzt is.

is he Drizzt clone? first of all, Drizzt (if were talking about the Forgotten Realms novels) CG and not Wizard... and as he says, its standard issue with the Scimitars (and almost all the Drow in Menzoberranzan whos fighters have Scimitars) so why is Zz'dtri Drizzt clone?

[Kish]

::)

Try rearranging the letters "Zzdtri" a bit. I'm also curious as to what you'd say the reason is for the lawyers to have hauled Zz'dtri away.

(Btw: Since Zz'dtri was a wizard, a non-Drizzt-ripoff Zz'dtri would not have had a drow fighter's weapons anyway.)

[Leeroy]

::)

Try rearranging the letters "Zzdtri" a bit. I'm also curious as to what you'd say the reason is for the lawyers to have hauled Zz'dtri away.

(Btw: Since Zz'dtri was a wizard, a non-Drizzt-ripoff Zz'dtri would not have had a drow fighter's weapons anyway.)

well V explained why, he was a copy of Drizzt... whops, ure right Kish, hes a clone... damn =)

[phlip]

Drizzt [...] CG

Nale also says in #44 that Zz'dtri is CG

[Dorni]

Nale also says in #44 that Zz'dtri is CG

If you read it very carefully, he actually says no such thing. He says that the race is full of CG PCs, not that zzditri is CG.

[Dark]

Actually he says that the whole species is now CG, which would include ZZ'dtri. But in any case he was probably lying :)

[Snoring_Dragon]

Didn't it say that V had a husband ???

so wouldn't that make V famale unless he/she in a guy that likes other guys

[Winged One]

No, only that he/she is married. Nobody said anything about the gender of V's mate.

[Vaarsuvius_Prime]

Isn't "standard issue" a joke from somebody think drow and two scimitars are synonym?

[Lilly]

Up, up, up, up the page you go!

[Reyth]

Yes, I carefully read all references and I am sure V's gender has not been given away yet.

What's funny is that it didn't occur to me that it was in question until V was talking to the shopkeepers and refered to 'her' as female, when I had assumed V was male. Later I read the one about Belkar looking at the lizard anatomy, and the joke was revealed...

The FAQ section covers this too.

I really don't know. I am going to wait for it to be revealed.

[evileeyore]

Over in the main thread the Giant said this:

The head is the same size, but OOTS females have their facial features lower down (both because of their hair and because it makes them look "cute"). If you look at Haley and Miko, they both have their eyes lower down on their head then Roy or Elan. For Female Roy, I copied the same positioning, even though she didn't have hair.

So I got to thinkin and thinkin leads to action...

So I present incontravertable evidence of V's Gender:



As you can clearly see the line bisecting the men's eyes is above V's, so thus V clearly cannot be a male.
As well the line bisecting the females eyes goes below V's, so thus clearly V cannot be a female.

Following this example of superior logic the choice is simple and obvious.

[Wrecan]

Holy cow! So V is wearing one of those rare belts of masculinity/femininity that neuters the wearer. No wonder V has spents so much time away from his/her mate!

[Nixie]

yes, but looking at Belkar, by your refrence, then he cannot be male, due to the fact that his eyes are above the 'male line', but still touches. Therefore making him in the same boat as V, neither.

BUT! we know Belkar is male. And his eyes are not ON the line (you left out Durkon BTW) but still touches.

So by your picture, and by your resoning, V is infact female. NOT neither and not male.

[Bil123]

Someone said that since Zz'tdri is male than V must be, but how do we know that Zz'trdi is actually male.

[evileeyore]

yes, but looking at Belkar, by your refrence, then he cannot be male, due to the fact that his eyes are above the 'male line', but still touches. Therefore making him in the same boat as V, neither.

BUT! we know Belkar is male. And his eyes are not ON the line (you left out Durkon BTW) but still touches.

So by your picture, and by your resoning, V is infact female. NOT neither and not male.

Ah, well... Belkar's head is slightly below the line. Sue me, but I'm not an artist, lining them up was rough.

[Anspruch]

We'll never know but I guess V is probably more female than male ... why should she sleep together with Haley and not the boys in one room? http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...tscript?SK=123 (I hope this wasn't linked too often here, it's my first post and I haven't read the whole thread)

[Slibs]

Because OOTS Elves aren't people in costume, they're a different species. A human and an elf rooming together would be along the lines of a human and a chimp rooming together.

[evileeyore]

Because OOTS Elves aren't people in costume, they're a different species. A human and an elf rooming together would be along the lines of a human and a chimp rooming together.

???

Where didya get that notion? I mean ya ain't wrong persay, Elves and Humans are a re different species, but they are close enough to mate.

So the analogy is closer to Wolves and Dogs rooming together. Or Coyotes and Dogs, etc...

[Devils_Advocate]

Ah, well... Belkar's head is slightly below the line. Sue me, but I'm not an artist, lining them up was rough.

I think that's in part because that image of Belkar's head is just slightly smaller than that of Roy's. If it were enlarged slightly and maybe moved up just a hair, I think they would line up almost perfectly. It's hard to tell with Haley and Miko, because of their hair. I'm pretty sure V's head is shown at least as small as Belkar's there, though; so, enlarging it and moving it up a smidgen in my head, it looks like V's eyes fall... right between the two lines. Huh.

That could be because of V's hair and circlet, or a deliberate compromise in design, or an androgynous elven trait, or some combination of those. It should be possible to figure out which, though. Who wants to line up Lirian and Dorukan from Serini's diary with some other forward-facing, um, faces? Just looking at that, it looks to me like Dorukan's eyes are drawn lower than Soon's...


I myself noticed something in the monthly comic thread:

This phenomenon never ceases to amaze me. If a member of the Order of the Stick says something, the fan base immediately assumes it's factual. I know Rich too well and have played games where he DM's. The only thing you can assume, when a character says something, is that the character said that. You can't even assume that they believe it, because they could be lying.

That further calls into doubt the notion that we might infer Vaarsuvius's gender from how other characters refer to V. When Rich says their words only reflect their opinions, he's not (or at least, not just) messing with us. That's actually a part of how he tells stories.