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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    Fireball essentially invalidates fortresses unless there is a solid counter for it.
    How do you mean? A good stone wall will take almost no damage from the fireball itself, and even if the fireball-caster can consistently slip the bead inside an arrow slit, good hallway design can keep the damage contained to the archer behind it. Regardless of system or edition, it's easier to train an archer or crossbowman than it is to acquire a wizard capable of casting D&D-style fireballs, so killing an archer with such a spell is a very bad trade.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Bohandas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    With sufficient magic, you can do away with the whole idea of a house entirely.
    All you need is just a doorway set against a solid surface, and whoever walks through it can step into a pocket-plane of their own choosing and design. EVERYONE in a city of millions can live inside a personalised mansion with infinite space to expand and no troublesome neighbours, all so long as you enter through an enchanted door within a given area - a "town square" or a henge or something.
    That would be massively expensive under D&D rules though. That's like an 11200 gp device for everyone. A realy really lenient DM might let it be done with a single 56000 gp device (if we let the magnificient mansion spell be cast at way way below it's minimum caster level and rule that it leads to multiple different places while still in effect; instead of more doors to the first one until the first one is dismissed) but even then it could only serve 14400 people because it takes a round to use it.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    That would be massively expensive under D&D rules though. That's like an 11200 gp device for everyone. A really really lenient DM might let it be done with a single 56,000 gp device (if we let the magnificent mansion spell be cast at way way below it's minimum caster level and rule that it leads to multiple different places while still in effect; instead of more doors to the first one until the first one is dismissed) but even then it could only serve 14400 people because it takes a round to use it.
    Nonsense! Kill an Ancient Red Dragon or two and you'll have more than enough. Clearly the town was founded by a retired Adventurer; boredom provided the inspiration and his Epic WBL took care of the rest.

    Or a God, or an extinct Elder Race did it, or something. DM fiat should likely be in charge of any city-sized construction to be honest, there average player probably shouldn't reach that sort of level of power.
    To use the same example as before; Sigil exists as a template so we have proof that it *can* be done, and we're just building something similar that happens to be finite in size instead of otherwise.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Bohandas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    That's if they let you build it at caster level 4. If they force you to use the minimum level you'd have to be to cast Magnificent Mansion as a spell it'd be 3 and a quarter times as much. Additionally the 14400 users per day figure assumes one person entering every round throughout the entire 24 hour day. If they all need to be using it around the same time the number is much lower
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2018-06-03 at 02:59 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    How do you mean? A good stone wall will take almost no damage from the fireball itself, and even if the fireball-caster can consistently slip the bead inside an arrow slit, good hallway design can keep the damage contained to the archer behind it. Regardless of system or edition, it's easier to train an archer or crossbowman than it is to acquire a wizard capable of casting D&D-style fireballs, so killing an archer with such a spell is a very bad trade.
    The wall will be fine, the issue is that the flames of fireball go around corners and fill it's effective range. You don't need to shoot them through the gaps. The mage will be able to empty sections of the wall just by hitting the "protection" soldiers would normally use.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    The wall will be fine, the issue is that the flames of fireball go around corners and fill it's effective range. You don't need to shoot them through the gaps. The mage will be able to empty sections of the wall just by hitting the "protection" soldiers would normally use.
    Yeah, but IIRC each corner it goes around takes half a step off of it's effective radius; it has to go into the square past the corner and then to the space around it instead of moving diagonally through the space where the wall is. It no longer has a fixed volume unless a fixed volume is specified (unless they changed it back after 3.5)
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    That would be massively expensive under D&D rules though. That's like an 11200 gp device for everyone. A realy really lenient DM might let it be done with a single 56000 gp device (if we let the magnificient mansion spell be cast at way way below it's minimum caster level and rule that it leads to multiple different places while still in effect; instead of more doors to the first one until the first one is dismissed) but even then it could only serve 14400 people because it takes a round to use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    That's if they let you build it at caster level 4. If they force you to use the minimum level you'd have to be to cast Magnificent Mansion as a spell it'd be 3 and a quarter times as much. Additionally the 14400 users per day figure assumes one person entering every round throughout the entire 24 hour day. If they all need to be using it around the same time the number is much lower
    That's the portable item price. Magical architecture that's anchored in place costs 1/4 by the guidelines in SBG.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    Regardless of the shenanigans above, the real threats to a RPG fortress are classic scry and die tactics. Divination and teleportation spells mitigate the most important aspects of defensive structures. Obviously, a wizard constantly casting wards can reduce the threat, but that is not generally practical. Other solutions could include using certain materials in construction (thin sheets of lead iirc,) or building according to a pattern that creates a ward of some sort without the need to recast it continually.

    If your biggest concern is evocation and transmutation then you are actually in pretty good shape. In this case, wizards have become artillery batteries and can be countered by other wizards, elite strike forces, or other means.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Magical Architecture

    It occurs to me that sovereign glue could replace bolts and welding in large structures. It could also be used to paste a building to the side of a cliff (provided that the walls and floors were capable of bearing it's weight.)
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