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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    people asking "what role does the party need?" and also players treating TTRPG like video games. they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. and so many people DM to accomodate video gamey folks rather than educate them that it just doesn't work and when people "game" the game. man it makes me annoyed.

    just friggin enjoy yourself and stop trying to think like a video game where there's SO MANY limitations due to the fact that computers are the stupidest things ever (trust me i program them all day) and the fact that your brain is the most advanced cognitive thing in this universe.

    man it annoys me.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerok LliGcam View Post
    people asking "what role does the party need?" and also players treating TTRPG like video games. they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. and so many people DM to accomodate video gamey folks rather than educate them that it just doesn't work and when people "game" the game. man it makes me annoyed.

    just friggin enjoy yourself and stop trying to think like a video game where there's SO MANY limitations due to the fact that computers are the stupidest things ever (trust me i program them all day) and the fact that your brain is the most advanced cognitive thing in this universe.

    man it annoys me.
    I agree with you in principle, but I've found in practice that if you're trying to get into a play-by-post, you either try to submit as quickly as you possibly can so you can design the character you actually want to play, or you make a character to fill a gap in the party's capabilities so you're not competing with the other people who made a fighter or a wizard, and thus have more of a chance to still get picked.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I agree with you in principle, but I've found in practice that if you're trying to get into a play-by-post, you either try to submit as quickly as you possibly can so you can design the character you actually want to play, or you make a character to fill a gap in the party's capabilities so you're not competing with the other people who made a fighter or a wizard, and thus have more of a chance to still get picked.
    Indeed. There's a 3.5 game I've played a couple times based on starting as NPC classes. I would absolutely love to play an adept for it, but both times I've seen it posted 2 or 3 people have already made adepts.

    Also, some games actually do need certain gaps filled in order for the party to be able to take on certain tasks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
    I have a homebrew: A couple Generic Classes (Now with a new Feat and ACF!)

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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    8BitNinja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerok LliGcam View Post
    people asking "what role does the party need?" and also players treating TTRPG like video games. they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. and so many people DM to accomodate video gamey folks rather than educate them that it just doesn't work and when people "game" the game. man it makes me annoyed.

    just friggin enjoy yourself and stop trying to think like a video game where there's SO MANY limitations due to the fact that computers are the stupidest things ever (trust me i program them all day) and the fact that your brain is the most advanced cognitive thing in this universe.

    man it annoys me.
    This is kind of a necessity for my group.

    Since I am now playing with a group of people who are afraid to play outside of their comfort zones and play nothing but rogues (yes, all of them. In our first campaign, the former forum member Green Elf felt the need to play cleric in order to keep the party alive for more than one encounter because 1d6 HP and an AC of 12 doesn't keep you alive very long) even though many of them don't do rogue stuff and act like fighters. So in order to help them learn about races and classes they normally would never play, our DM has made a one class per party rule. However, we usually still get two rogues since rogue will almost always be the first class taken, and then the other be a ranger, but ignore ranger class abilities so it can be played like a rogue. We have yet to see any of them play wizard and keep track of spells and spell slots, even when our DM houseruled out material components and focuses to make it easier for them.

    But I'm not the one complaining about everyone wanting to be Han Solo. While everyone is arguing about that, I can say without anyone being mad that I'm Luke Skywalker.
    Last edited by 8BitNinja; 2018-06-20 at 03:07 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Arbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by 8BitNinja View Post
    Since I am now playing with a group of people who are afraid to play outside of their comfort zones and play nothing but rogues (yes, all of them.

    (SNIP)

    But I'm not the one complaining about everyone wanting to be Han Solo. While everyone is arguing about that, I can say without anyone being mad that I'm Luke Skywalker.
    You filthy optimizer. How dare you do anything that might outshine the least competent of your teammates!

    That is a bit odd. Why rogues? (And why not play Blades in the Dark?)
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
    Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
    I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerok LliGcam View Post
    people asking "what role does the party need?" and also players treating TTRPG like video games. they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. and so many people DM to accomodate video gamey folks rather than educate them that it just doesn't work and when people "game" the game. man it makes me annoyed.

    just friggin enjoy yourself and stop trying to think like a video game where there's SO MANY limitations due to the fact that computers are the stupidest things ever (trust me i program them all day) and the fact that your brain is the most advanced cognitive thing in this universe.

    man it annoys me.
    I've seen it work.

    My university group had one player who never learnt the system (and setting) beforehand. So while everybody else came with a character concept she always needed a bit of poking (except when we played M&M, she needed help building but had a firm concept that played well with the party). This meant she'd normally be pushed towards something the party needed, although she'd also bring in other stuff (one time we needed a dwarf because the entire game was set in a dwarf hold, so we ended up with an engineer/face*). It was more a case of needing a push or never being too attached to her race.

    But yeah, it can be annoying, especially when applied to a 'do we have a fighter/mage/cleric/thief' setup. I do generally like to know if the party is missing somebody with scholar skills, or information gathering, or wilderness survival, because being able to tackle a range of obstacles makes for a better story, but few groups think that far ahead (my current group is rogueless, and very heavily oriented towards social skills with me packing most of the scholar stuff due to a +4 Int mod).

    * Almost everybody in the group focused on face skills, we liked to avoid fights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Bohandas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Evil kings who are withered and twisted (Palpatine, Theoden prior to exorcism, etc.) and good kings who are hale and hearty. It should be the other way around. Putting in the time and effort to rule wisely and justly would be more likely to age you prematurely than presiding over some kleptocracy where you don;t spend time or effort on anything other than enriching yourself and indulging your own whims.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Sporeegg's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Evil kings who are withered and twisted (Palpatine, Theoden prior to exorcism, etc.) and good kings who are hale and hearty. It should be the other way around. Putting in the time and effort to rule wisely and justly would be more likely to age you prematurely than presiding over some kleptocracy where you don;t spend time or effort on anything other than enriching yourself and indulging your own whims.
    Because it then usually is the other trope. "Pretty rich (white) douchebag" and old wise king (mentor).
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
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    Ferrin - Human Swashbuckler - Shackles of Blood

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Religion =/= Mythology

    Too many authors and world-builders come up with a bunch of myths and legends and say "that's what the people believe".

    The problem is that a real life religion is more than the sum of its stories. It's a mishmash of interpretations that have been handed down over the years, disagreements over which rules are more important, festivals, rituals, and superstitions that may have no basis in the "canon" but are part of the background of everyday life.

    Take Zeus for example. Most people today know him primarily as the guy who "throws thunderbolts and turns into a swan to have sex". To the peasants of Classical Greece though, he was the protector of travellers who came to their doors seeking shelter. He was the being they offered a sacrifice to in exchange for another good summer. They probably knew some of the ribald stories, but they were less important than his (perceived) impact on their day-to-day life. To put it another way, it's the difference between your friend's opinion of your boss, who only hears about them when you joke about the office Christmas party, as opposed to your opinion based on working with them on a daily basis.

    One series I've seen handle this well is the Elder Scrolls. Most of the in-universe mythologies share the same beats: at some point in the past there were three being who formed the universe, a group of lesser spirits created the mortal plane, and another group of spirits chose not to help. Beyond that they differ wildly in how they interpret the stories. The rift between Altmer and Dunmer is less that the Dunmer believe that certain Daedra are worthy of worship, as why the Dunmer think that certain Daedra are worthy of worship. The belief that the Mundus is a prison is the core of Altmer faith, so when the Dunmer argue that it is actually a testing ground on the path to enlightenment it creates an irreconcilable rift between their religions.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerok LliGcam View Post
    people asking "what role does the party need?" and also players treating TTRPG like video games. they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. and so many people DM to accomodate video gamey folks rather than educate them that it just doesn't work and when people "game" the game. man it makes me annoyed.

    just friggin enjoy yourself and stop trying to think like a video game where there's SO MANY limitations due to the fact that computers are the stupidest things ever (trust me i program them all day) and the fact that your brain is the most advanced cognitive thing in this universe.

    man it annoys me.
    No healer wouldn't be an issue?
    No front line wouldn't be an issue?
    Nobody that can deal with traps or spot them?

    A good group needs to be balanced IMO...so asking what bases haven't been covered seems like a pretty reasonable thing to say. Example - 3 fighters go into a dungeon, then a rogue,cleric and fighter...the second is going to be able to deal with more problems than the first due to varied skill sets.
    Last edited by Rebel4ever85; 2018-11-06 at 12:04 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel4ever85 View Post
    No healer wouldn't be an issue?
    No front line wouldn't be an issue?
    Nobody that can deal with traps or spot them?
    Played in a party with no healer, worked well, we went down too quickly anyway.

    Played in a party with no front liners. Game turned into rocket tag.

    Played in a party with no rogue. Absolutely refused to go into dungeons and barded our way past everything (by which I mean we used social skills, not that we slept with somebody then escaped through the window).
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel4ever85 View Post
    No healer wouldn't be an issue?
    No front line wouldn't be an issue?
    Nobody that can deal with traps or spot them?

    A good group needs to be balanced IMO...so asking what bases haven't been covered seems like a pretty reasonable thing to say. Example - 3 fighters go into a dungeon, then a rogue,cleric and fighter...the second is going to be able to deal with more problems than the first due to varied skill sets.
    I think this assumes a dungeon-crawl- or hex-crawl-centric setup, where sequential combats of a specific sort will be the norm and make up the spine of the campaign. Many campaigns, many systems, many settings, do not really focus on this particular aspect of RPGing.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    Planet Mercenary RPG Discussion

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Absolutely refused to go into dungeons and barded our way past everything (by which I mean we used social skills, not that we slept with somebody then escaped through the window).
    Is that not the point of being a bard then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
    Brimaz of Oreskos - Tabaxi Druid/Life Cleric - Labyrinth of Zaaar the Mad
    Ferrin - Human Swashbuckler - Shackles of Blood

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Is that not the point of being a bard then?
    I think you have misunderstood. The latter part didn't happen because, despite doing a lot of barding, none of us had gone to bard college and as such were deficiet in the required silly hats and pickup lines.
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

    RIP Laser-Snail, may you live on in our hearts forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Sporeegg's Avatar

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    Default Re: Annoying Fantasy Clichés II: We're gonna need more Trope

    None of my characters have hats. Except the ones with weird races choices, they got a Hat of Disguise. Or if you play in cold climate and still wanna show of these abs without freezing.

    No seriously, at one point in our campaign, we had almost all player characters seduce every major NPC.

    The fighter dated the daughter of the chieftain.
    The paladin dated the important merchant.
    The witch dated a wish-granting genie.
    The monk dated the daughter of the chieftain first, but then selected a vow of celibacy mostly to show off his major dedication to his combat style. (along with what felt like 15 other vows essentially barring him from RPing with anyone ever!)

    Sadly our Paladin went with the BBEG and was turned to HIS side (freeing the apocalyptic rider of death and turning undead).
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Dammit man, I said to use the MORALLY GREY flaming catapults!"
    Kriv, the Boastful - Dragonborn Fighter//Bard - Calm before the Storm
    Brimaz of Oreskos - Tabaxi Druid/Life Cleric - Labyrinth of Zaaar the Mad
    Ferrin - Human Swashbuckler - Shackles of Blood

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