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  1. - Top - End - #931
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Thanks for the feedback!
    I don’t see anything that prevents you from using combo points the turn you get them except they can’t be used with attacks of opportunity. Admittedly, at level 3 you would need to use two weapon fighting, make your off hand attack first, hit, and then use your attack action attack as a Finisher, so heavy weapon and bow fighters do have to wait till level 5, but then you can attack and finish every round if you like. And keep in mind, all finishers are weapon based, so swapping between weapons as needed is totally viable (especially since several finishers are improved when you release your weapon!)

    And gambling for 3 successful attacks over two turns might seem a challenge at level 3, but it becomes very likely at level 11, and nothing requires you to combo a single opponent, you can action surge to slap around the boss’ low Cr minions to generate a bunch of points and then make 3 Skullsplitters or whatever on the boss.
    Based on how it is written right now, you spend points for finishers when you take the attack action, so you need to do so before rolling any attack and you cannot do finishers on bonus action attacks.
    Last edited by Fnissalot; 2019-09-30 at 11:50 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #932
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    To my knowledge, there is nothing in the rules as written mandating when you take the bonus action attack from Twf. Crawford’s (IMO ridiculous) assertion about shield mastery is bad and I think where this reasoning comes from.

    As it has been ruled at every table I’ve played at on the west coast and hawaii, You declare what you’re doing before you resolve. That declaration is a commitment to do what you’ve declared and if it becomes irrelevant, you do nothing.

    Example: I’m gonna Attack, (saying this triggers Twf) I make my bonus action off hand attack. Orc falls. I can stab the corpse or direct your main hand attack at another foe you can reach or move within reach of. If that was the last foe or no other enemies are in range you do nothing with your main hand or action, you cannot choose to dodge at that time.

    Example 2: 2 wpns, warcaster, I declare attack, I attack with main hand wpn, enemy dies, I can either attack another foe with off hand wpn, move and attack, or choose to cast a bonus action spell. Because I chose to save the Twf Attack for last, I now have options on what I can do with the bonus action.

    There are reasons to do either, maybe you have a magic weapon, maybe you want your lower damage off hand dealing with the kobold in front of you so your higher damage main hand (or multiple attacks) deal with the dragon 20 feet away.

    I have never seen “off hand attacks always come after” as a valid interpretation or seen it implemented by a DM (I can’t speak to what other players may have chosen to do at the table, I only keep track of so much).

    So, Combo Points And Finishers, as written here in its draft form, work as I’ve described given what I’ve seen as the most common interpretation of the RAW. Further even if you choose your interpretation, your issue dissolves at level 5 when you can make multiple attacks with your action and if you insist that that part is unclear, then I will be reviewing the text for a second draft before voting time later this month, but the intent is explicitly to allow any fighter at level fighter to attack and finish each round if desired from 5th on.

  3. - Top - End - #933
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    You are missing what I am pointing at. I am not focusing on the order of bonus attacks and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Combo Points
    Your successive attacks allow you to set up foes for powerful techniques. This is represented by Combo points. Each time you successfully hit a target you gain a combo point. Combo points remain until the end of your next turn. When you take the attack action you can spend combo points to replace one of the attacks granted by that action with a Finisher. You may also spend the points to Ready a Finisher.

    If you miss with an attack roll while you have combo points, the combo points are lost.

    The Finishers you can perform are dependent on the type of weapons you are wielding. Rules for finishers are detailed below.

    Iron Muscle/Iron Hide- beginning at level 3 you can base your unarmored ac off your strength or Con instead of Dex. You can wield a shield and keep this benefit.

    Iron Fist- beginning at 3rd level your unarmed attacks deal 1d4 bludgeoning and can be based off your strength or Dex. Your unarmed attacks count as weapons for all two weapon fighting purposes. This increases to d6 at 5th, d8 at 11th, and d10, at 17th.
    The bold section, says that you can only spend combo points when you take the attack action. The TWF bonus action is not part of the attack action and can therefore not replace its attack with a finisher. In addition, since you need to spend the points when you do the action, not the attack, you cannot spend points gotten in the same turn on attacks that are part of the same attack action.

    Replacing the bold part with the following would fix what I am pointing at:
    When you make an attack, you can spend combo points to replace that attack with a Finisher.

  4. - Top - End - #934
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    It seems I’m not making myself clear and I’ll try and rectify that.

    Twf says “when you take the attack action on your turn”, I’ve never in the history of 5e seen a dm insist the attack action attack/s be made before the bonus action attack granted by twf. So the same reasoning and interpretation of RAW is intended here. You say you’re going to attack, that’s “taking the attack action” vs “when you have taken the attack action.”

    I’d also like to point out, your attack action lasts for the entirety of your turn as supported by how you can move attack, move attack, and move again all in the same round at level 1. So extrapolating you could move, attack, spend points, Finish, and move again falls within those parameters.

    To really zero in, I Very specifically, I do not want Finishers used as AoOs and I do not want finishers executed as bonus actions. I want them limited to attacks made on your turn ie, the ones made as part of the attack action. TWF already gets a buff on point generation, I don’t want it to be further superior with number of possible Finishers. That may change as I continue to test and develop the subclass.

    Better wording might be “you can spend combo points to execute a Finisher instead of a normal attack when you make an Attack as part of the attack action on your turn.” that seems needlessly verbose. I also said I’d be taking another pass at the language soon.
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-10-01 at 02:56 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #935
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    Phhase's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Changes made to Oath of the Enshaedn:
    Tweaks to the wording of Crawling Darkness, and misc. upcasting formats.

    Your Shade well now scales by level. You can spend extra Shade to make spells harder to resist.

    Added some more utility to Shadowsight, extended the potential duration.

    The Shadow Within and Shadecasting (Shade-only casts) are a little more more flexible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Phhase he played four
    He played nick nack on my door
    With a nick nack paddy whack
    Give a dog a bone
    Phhase came rolling home.

  6. - Top - End - #936
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I'm in the process of moving the combo king to pdf.

    A lot of edits, notably I've changed the name to Shikensu Warrior, combo points are now called flow. Mechanically very little has changed.
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-10-06 at 08:56 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #937
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Spoiler: Way of the Elemental Bands 2 Electric Boogaloo
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    Very nice! It's a lot cleaner now, though I'm confused about the line "You can only use one elemental power on an attack and you may only use one strike in each of your turns." Are strikes just the abilities that have the word strike in them? Are elemental powers the other abilities stances grant then?


    Spoiler: Oath of Light
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    Looks fun! I did a double take with the Channel Divinity options, until I remembered Paladins only get one Channel Divinity per rest . For Hurling Smite, what exactly constitutes a smite spell? Is it any spell that has smite in it's name, only those that you have prepared, or something else? Also, with Burning Aura, when do creatures take damage? Is it when you use your bonus action to extend it? Overall it looks fun and unique; it feels like it would play differently from a normal Paladin, but that's not a bad thing!


    Spoiler: Fighter Archetype: Shikensu Warrior
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    Oh dang, fun martial classes are my weakness. I love the flow subsystem; I just wish there were more finishers for other weapons, like unarmed strikes or bows. The 10th level feature is a bit strange though. Personally, I would tweak it so that once per rest, you can make a free lesser Finisher without spending flow as a reaction before you're downed, and scale it up to heavy and devastating. No complaints with the rest of the subclass though!


    Spoiler: Oath of the Enshaden
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    I find it very amusing that we got a light and a shadow based paladin this round . It's very flavorful, though I'm hesitant about using Shade points to boost spell DC, or setting DC's based on a damage roll. I don't know if it would be an issue in actual play, but it's making me do a bit of a double take.


    Spoiler: Otherworldly Patron: the Great Dragon
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    I like this a lot! It's a sorcerer stuffed into a warlock, but that's not a bad thing. I would definitely play this given the chance! Sorcerous Talent says you need 5 sorcery points, but it doesn't specify a source, so does it work if you multiclass with a normal sorcerer? I don't think it's an issue if it does; a small bonus to your sorcery points isn't going to break anything, especially since the warlock gets it slower than a sorcerer.


    Spoiler: Fighter Archetype: Guilder
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    Very neat; it's kind of like a pseudo-Artificer! It does feel very video game-y; spending a full round to buy an item kind of stretches my suspension of disbelief, but it's no big deal.


    Spoiler: Druid: The Circle of Eyes
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    I like this a lot! You've captured a very lovecraftian feel without making you turn into a squid. Divination suits a druid very well. I would definitely play one given the chance.


    Spoiler: Martial Archetype – Irradiated
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    Very flavorful! I like how you've turned the points system on it's head. Some of the abilities aren't party friendly, but it's not that hard to work around. All in all, looks like fun!

  8. - Top - End - #938
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicrosil View Post
    ]

    Spoiler: Fighter Archetype: Shikensu Warrior
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    Oh dang, fun martial classes are my weakness. I love the flow subsystem; I just wish there were more finishers for other weapons, like unarmed strikes or bows. The 10th level feature is a bit strange though. Personally, I would tweak it so that once per rest, you can make a free lesser Finisher without spending flow as a reaction before you're downed, and scale it up to heavy and devastating. No complaints with the rest of the subclass though!


    [R]
    Thanks, I’m glad you like it! The Rival element is a reflection of the subclass’ roots in Shonen Fight Manga and Fighting Games. As for more finishers, the ranged finishers are intended to work with bows and the Fists of Brutality are intended to work with Unarmed strikes. If that isn’t clear I’ll have to revisit the language.

  9. - Top - End - #939
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    thisdude9001's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicrosil View Post

    Spoiler: Oath of Light
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    Looks fun! I did a double take with the Channel Divinity options, until I remembered Paladins only get one Channel Divinity per rest . For Hurling Smite, what exactly constitutes a smite spell? Is it any spell that has smite in it's name, only those that you have prepared, or something else? Also, with Burning Aura, when do creatures take damage? Is it when you use your bonus action to extend it? Overall it looks fun and unique; it feels like it would play differently from a normal Paladin, but that's not a bad thing!
    Thanks edited
    My limited homebrew experience
    oh hey didn't see you there

  10. - Top - End - #940
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Thanks, I’m glad you like it! The Rival element is a reflection of the subclass’ roots in Shonen Fight Manga and Fighting Games. As for more finishers, the ranged finishers are intended to work with bows and the Fists of Brutality are intended to work with Unarmed strikes. If that isn’t clear I’ll have to revisit the language.
    Okay ya turns out I'm a fool and didn't see that there were pages beyond the blades finishers. I redact my previous statements.

    Also, made some tweaks to the Spellbound barbarian, mainly making Tearing Surge activate after you teleport.
    Last edited by Nicrosil; 2019-10-10 at 04:41 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #941
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I updated the Irradiated Fighter based on a lot of the feedback. Thanks to all who gave notes. Sorry for the last minute revision. Been a busy few weeks.

    I feel pretty good about most of it, but I'm most unsure about the new addition of Radiation Sickness. I'm not sure if the feel/balance is quite right for that bit.

    Martial Archetype - Irradiated

  12. - Top - End - #942
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    Phhase's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicrosil View Post
    Spoiler: Oath of the Enshaden
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    I find it very amusing that we got a light and a shadow based paladin this round . It's very flavorful, though I'm hesitant about using Shade points to boost spell DC, or setting DC's based on a damage roll. I don't know if it would be an issue in actual play, but it's making me do a bit of a double take.
    Haha, thanks Nicros. Yeah, it tickled me too. Happened completely by accident. I think the Nightnail attack DC might be ok. Weapon base damage goes up to 12, and your str bonus goes up to +5, so 17 is about the max DC, UNLESS you blow a smite, which, admittedly, will pretty much guarantee it. Although, you'd need a second greatsword or greataxe, since you gotta leave the Nightnail one in the ground. I totally get if feels outta left field though, 'cause it pretty much is.
    Last edited by Phhase; 2019-10-13 at 01:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Phhase he played four
    He played nick nack on my door
    With a nick nack paddy whack
    Give a dog a bone
    Phhase came rolling home.

  13. - Top - End - #943
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    MoleMage's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Alright folks, thanks for keeping this contest running! I had a whole bunch of RL stuff come up so I'm sorry I didn't get to my customary feedback or making an entry, but you all didn't let that slow it down one jot.

    Voting thread is now open for Contest XI! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...4#post24202064
    Signature currently down for maintenance. Expected completion March 22, 3046.

    Spoiler: Contest Awards
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  14. - Top - End - #944
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    The guilder is meant to emulate Dragon Kill Points form vanilla WOW, they we a flawed system that pervaded all guilds. I would have given more but, the potential for items can be terrifying. Saying the item is at the DM discretion is because magic times have varying availability based on setting. TBH if you DM abuses this and makes you worse for taking it they are a bad DM and I don't know why you put up with them.

    If you have never see the dots video from vanilla I can't express enough how priceless it is.
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2019-10-14 at 10:39 AM.

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