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  1. - Top - End - #811
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SleeplessWriter View Post
    Thanks! I couldn't find just a blank slate for a young dragon, but the young white dragon was pretty close, and without the lair actions, ice walk, or burrow or swim speeds it should be a little closer to a 5 CR creature.
    I also gave it a tail attack, but I'm not entirely certain I should keep that at this point. Balance wise the tail attack lets the fighter make the same four attacks they could at 20th level, but without all the enchanted gear that they would almost certainly have at that stage of the game, though, I'm not certain if that would be too much. Granted, the six charges it takes to activate this ability aren't that cheap, since it'll take about six short rests to save up, which works out to about two or three days. So while the summoning technically doesn't pass the bag of rats test it does prevent general abuse by making you have to judge when to use resources, such as choosing whether to summon a massive dragon later or adding a few tanky giants to the battle.

    That being said, I'm still not sure how well the shadow soldiers will do at higher levels. I thought about maybe giving them undead fortitude as well, which would also up the strategic value of black banners over the other options you get at 10th level. The other possibility I thought of was just a flat boost to their hit points, but I'm hesitant to add more than I have already, as that could easily put it above the shadow giants hp wise.
    You could allow the Shadow Soldiers to just be Shadows at that level. Glass cannons that everything stops to destroy after they appear. Strength damage on a hit makes them terrifying and having a bunch pop up and attack means you might cut a creepís effectiveness in half if not outright kill them.

    Young Brass or Young White stats should be fine with Temp HP for fighter level and your proficiency or Con bonus to their attack rolls.

    If you have the Fighter sacrifice an attack to make the Dragon Attack or breathe, it shouldnít be a problem. Maybe allow one breath per summon unless the fighter spends his second wind to let it breathe again.

    Good luck whatever you decide!
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-08-12 at 09:29 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #812
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    The Monk Archetype Way of the Gemini is up!

    Inspired by the "speed clones" of speedsters, I'm using the Mirror Image mechanics to start the process, which gets more and more complex, until the archetype capstone allows the monk to literally summon a copy of itself.

    I'm pretty happy with it, but the wording for Splinter Twin could probably be better.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  3. - Top - End - #813
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    The Monk Archetype Way of the Gemini is up!

    Inspired by the "speed clones" of speedsters, I'm using the Mirror Image mechanics to start the process, which gets more and more complex, until the archetype capstone allows the monk to literally summon a copy of itself.

    I'm pretty happy with it, but the wording for Splinter Twin could probably be better.
    Supercool! I love the spell mirror image and it is so cool to have a subclass built around the concept!

    The only thing I have to say otherwise is that some parts feel a bit ambiguous with Myriad Strike and Displacement by Decoy. Myriad strike could probably be written as:

    Spoiler: Myriad Strike (Reworded?)
    Show

    At level 6, your control over your duplicates expands. As an action, you can cause one of the duplicates to move up to your movement speed and make two unarmed strikes.

    When you use your Flurry of Blows, you may have one of your duplicates that does not share your space make an unarmed strike against a creature


    Firstly, it removes the confusion about "within your speed" of yourself or it. Secondly, do you still count the duplicate for multilocation if they moved away from you? Third, it is a bit cleaner writing of the flurry of blows part.

    For Displacement by Decoy I would switch places on "that don't share a space with you" and "within 100 ft" as it is a little less ambiguous about what should be within 100 ft.

  4. - Top - End - #814
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I ditched my old attempt because it my mind just wasn't in it, so I will let it sit on the backburner for awhile. Instead, I created a first draft of the Druid, Circle of the Pocket Monster.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...4&postcount=12

    Please feel free to tell me comments, thoughts, criticism, and anything else.

  5. - Top - End - #815
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fnissalot View Post
    Supercool! I love the spell mirror image and it is so cool to have a subclass built around the concept!
    Thanks! I thought they sounded off. I've updated their wording to match.

    I've also changed the AC on the Duplicates to 8+Dex+Wis, making them more monk-like, but still easier to hit than the original Gemini monk.

    I've also increased the Ki for Displacement because it can also be used as a teleport... kind of.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  6. - Top - End - #816
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Some feedback for the submitted classes
    Spoiler: Shadowtouched Fighter
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    There's just too much going on. At all times.

    The three 3rd level abilities are too much. It could've been okay if it was merely frontloaded, but there were 2 7th level and 2 10th level abilities immediately following it. Once you add the stat blocks for the summons we're looking at an amount of text that makes the 3.5 grapple rules look small.

    What I'd like to see is something more succinct, more eloquent. Maybe a slightly buffed Mark of Darkness at 3, move both early Shadow Summoning to 7, move upgrades at 10 and so on.


    Spoiler: Greyskull barbarian
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    I like the concept and can't wait to see the full fleshed out form. Having an low-CR beast that enlarges on rage is pretty cool. I'm interested in the mechanics you choose for the selection & healing of the animal companion.


    Spoiler: College of Fables
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    Inspiring Story is currently too powerful. You're getting free double-twinned Healing Words 3-10 times per rest. I think making it something like:
    When you inspire someone they roll that die and gain that much health in addtion to the BI die.
    You roll a BI die, and heal that many creatures a flat amount
    You roll a BI die + whatever to gain an amount of healing, then divvy it out to a number of characters

    I'd switch Tall Tales and Storyteller Summons. It's too much at 3rd level and too little at 6th. Switching them is the easiest way to do so.


    Spoiler: Oath of the Legion
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    Veteran Ally is cool, but seems overly complicated. I'd start off with just the ability to summon a single ally, then turn on the legion-summoning at 15th level. Also, how does the Ally summoning scale? It seems to be 1/3rd level

    Back your partner is an odd location - typically all 7th level abilities are Aura interactions. I'd probably keep the "I take the damage" from Redemption and Master commander into this location, while keeping a "They take the damage" in the 20th level slot.

    By My Command is probably OP because they're not limited by much. You use your Channel Divinity to create a bunch of smiting paladins, then recall them for more juice, rinse and repeat


    Spoiler: Diabloist Paladin
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    You can't actually summon anything until you get 3rd level spells at level... 9, so I'd like to see more powerful aura before level 9. Probably a more broad "celestial, fiend, or elemental" would work for the aura and the 15th level abilities.

    I love Calling In Favors



    Spoiler: Bladecloak Rogue
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    I'd like to see more of Dagger Bond. The Blinkback feature is great, but having both blinkback AND Dagger bond seems odd.

    Hidden Cuts, Primordial Blades, and Symphony of Dagger are all really neat neat. Hidden cuts should probably have a cooldown, but I doubt it'd be too frequently used.


    Spoiler: Lineage Sorcerer
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    This is a really elegant subclass. The 6th level ability is very broad and powerful, but you correctly shrunk the other features to balance the power level.

    Calling the Ancestors probably should indicate at what level you can cast it at - or if it's always at 3rd level, just notate that.



    Spoiler: Hive Conclave
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    This is a cool concept. Hive Cluster should probably be made closer to an Artificer Summon - that is, in its' own stat block instead of being written out in abstract.

    Hivemind should be moved to Hivekin at 3rd level... Rangers' 5th level slot is just for their Extra/Coordinated/Alternative Attack.

    I like the Coordinated Strike, but would probably prefer an Extra attack with a warlock-esque way to give up an attack to cause them to take an additional saving throw. That gives the Ranger a bit more flexibility, as they aren't limited in attacks when fighting someone outside of the swarm.

    The piercing stings counting as magical from Potent Venom should probably moved to 7, and the movement reduction from Inhibiting swarm should be moved to Potent Venom.

    I love the innovations


    Spoiler: Pocket Monster
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    Catch them all is neat. My only caveat is that you can only catch things that you kill, without being particularly good at killing... so you're not going to have a ton of these for most of the early levels. I'd change it to some sort of Power Word variant, where you can catch targets of X HP or less, giving you a window of "catchability"... maybe a contest, skill check vs saving throw instead of Int(Nature) vs 10+CR. Also, perhaps make this an action or bonus action? Then Master Catcher can expand on this to make it even easier, maybe allowing you to catch as a reaction.

    Nature checks are an interesting choice for this - while it makes sense, AND a Druid should have picked up proficiency at character creation, but nothing else on the archetype (or as a druid in general) runs off Intelligence. You could:
    • change it to Animal Handling
    • have a subclass feature make Nature a Wisdom Check
    • give a your intelligence(nature) checks a bonus equal to wisdom
    • make this the "Intellect Druid" and make everything use Intelligence rather than Wisdom

    You're My Choice should be reworded a bit. I'd switch the last two sentences to clear that the destroyed creature also destroys the essence and isn't regained with a long rest.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  7. - Top - End - #817
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post

    Spoiler: Bladecloak Rogue
    Show
    I'd like to see more of Dagger Bond. The Blinkback feature is great, but having both blinkback AND Dagger bond seems odd.

    Hidden Cuts, Primordial Blades, and Symphony of Dagger are all really neat neat. Hidden cuts should probably have a cooldown, but I doubt it'd be too frequently used.
    Thanks for the good feedback. Dagger Bond is largely a ribbon ability. The character is all about always having knives, so Dagger Bond makes it so that they always have them. I wanted to add the line from the Eldritch Knight ability that prevents disarmament, but was worried that that would be too much. What do you think?

    Yeah, I should probably put a limiter on Hidden Cuts. I purposely made the ability pretty niche because of the relative strength of the rest of the subclass, but to make it fit in with the rest of the system's design standards, I should add a cooldown. I think "once per short rest" should be fine since it will likely be a rare occurrence and isn't all that powerful.

  8. - Top - End - #818
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Some feedback for the submitted classes
    Spoiler: Lineage Sorcerer
    Show
    This is a really elegant subclass. The 6th level ability is very broad and powerful, but you correctly shrunk the other features to balance the power level.

    Calling the Ancestors probably should indicate at what level you can cast it at - or if it's always at 3rd level, just notate that.
    Thanks! Good point about the spell level. I was considering it at some point but forgot to add it.

  9. - Top - End - #819
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Thanks for the good feedback. Dagger Bond is largely a ribbon ability. The character is all about always having knives, so Dagger Bond makes it so that they always have them. I wanted to add the line from the Eldritch Knight ability that prevents disarmament, but was worried that that would be too much. What do you think?
    I'm worried that a pair of largely ribbon utility abilities isn't quite good experience at 3rd level. If you combine the two (I'll add it below) and add some more exciting/active at level 3:
    • A sly flourish, allowing you to intimidate a target as a bonus action to give the target disadvantage against you, or give you advantage?
    • bumping up the damage die of finesse weapons you wield?
    • the ability to cast sword burst as a bonus action?
    • Lean into the thrown abilities, with things like sharpshooter for thrown weapons?

    Knife at the Ready
    Starting at 3rd level, you have a seemingly endless supply of knives. You can perform a ritual over the course of 1 hour that creates a magical bond between yourself and your daggers, which can be done during a short rest. You can create the bond with a magical dagger, but you canít affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. You can summon or dismiss that weapon as a bonus action on your turn, shunting it into or pulling it from an extradimensional space. You can have up to two bonded weapons and can summon both with your bonus action. If you attempt to bond with a third weapon, you must break the bond with one of the other two.
    In addition, when you make a ranged weapon attack with a dagger, as part of the Attack action you can reach into a pocket dimension in your cloak and draw an exact copy of the dagger that you just threw. Thrown daggers lose any magical properties at the end of your current turn and disappear from existence after one minute.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  10. - Top - End - #820
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Some feedback for the submitted classes

    Spoiler: Pocket Monster
    Show
    Catch them all is neat. My only caveat is that you can only catch things that you kill, without being particularly good at killing... so you're not going to have a ton of these for most of the early levels. I'd change it to some sort of Power Word variant, where you can catch targets of X HP or less, giving you a window of "catchability"... maybe a contest, skill check vs saving throw instead of Int(Nature) vs 10+CR. Also, perhaps make this an action or bonus action? Then Master Catcher can expand on this to make it even easier, maybe allowing you to catch as a reaction.

    Nature checks are an interesting choice for this - while it makes sense, AND a Druid should have picked up proficiency at character creation, but nothing else on the archetype (or as a druid in general) runs off Intelligence. You could:
    • change it to Animal Handling
    • have a subclass feature make Nature a Wisdom Check
    • give a your intelligence(nature) checks a bonus equal to wisdom
    • make this the "Intellect Druid" and make everything use Intelligence rather than Wisdom

    You're My Choice should be reworded a bit. I'd switch the last two sentences to clear that the destroyed creature also destroys the essence and isn't regained with a long rest.
    Dang, you have been busy. There are some great thoughts that clean and clarify things.

    I did change the capture mechanism to cost am action and use a spell attack. That way I can let the designer mechanisms take care of scaling for me. Also it needs to be under 8 hp to capture it.

    Does it need a limit on how many creatures you can attempt to capture per short rest? The concern I have is capturing rats and then immediately burning them for the reaction ability.

  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Given that Rattatta are such trash-mon, I think burning them bag of rats style is a feature not a bug.

    But seriously, Greyskull Barbarian (Renamed to Legendary Dragoon) is up in full. Looking forward to any feedback.

  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Breccia's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    By My Command is probably OP because they're not limited by much. You use your Channel Divinity to create a bunch of smiting paladins, then recall them for more juice, rinse and repeat
    Except that any spell slots they use up come from your pool, so they're still gone when you recall the Ally.

    And you can't "repeat" for ten minutes because of exactly the problem you're talking about.

  13. - Top - End - #823
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Dang, you have been busy. There are some great thoughts that clean and clarify things.

    I did change the capture mechanism to cost am action and use a spell attack. That way I can let the designer mechanisms take care of scaling for me. Also it needs to be under 8 hp to capture it.

    Does it need a limit on how many creatures you can attempt to capture per short rest? The concern I have is capturing rats and then immediately burning them for the reaction ability.
    I don't think so. And looking at it again, maybe you shouldn't limit the number of Definitely-Not-Pokťmon you can capture so strictly. When you think about it, you're already limited by the number you can summon per rest, and I could certainly see Pocket Monster Druids gunning for that Bag of Tricks so they can always collect some jackels, weasels, and rats... because it also essentially acts as 3 more "I choose you" charges per long rest, at the risk of being random.

    You could:
    • Create a flat minor component cost for the "pokeballs", thus scaling into obscurity as you level. This could be something purchasable in any world (something like "a sphere of wood worth 5 sp"), or generated via short rest.
    • Cap the number of monsters held to something that scales, like Strength or Constitution, as a nod to the "throw" or the "carry". Maybe proficiency + STR?
    • Cap the number of monsters by combined CR. Perhaps equal to Druid level? For example, at Level 3, you could get CR 3 worth of Monsters, but can only capture CR 1 creatures, so you could grab 3 CR 1s, 2 CR 1s and 4 CR 1/4s, and so on)
    • Require level CR 1 and higher creatures for the level 10 ability. Because Rattatas are useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Except that any spell slots they use up come from your pool, so they're still gone when you recall the Ally.
    Ah. It wasn't clear on the first read-through, but you're right - it does say "using your spell slots". MB
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  14. - Top - End - #824
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    I don't think so. And looking at it again, maybe you shouldn't limit the number of Definitely-Not-Pokťmon you can capture so strictly. When you think about it, you're already limited by the number you can summon per rest, and I could certainly see Pocket Monster Druids gunning for that Bag of Tricks so they can always collect some jackels, weasels, and rats... because it also essentially acts as 3 more "I choose you" charges per long rest, at the risk of being random.

    You could:
    • Create a flat minor component cost for the "pokeballs", thus scaling into obscurity as you level. This could be something purchasable in any world (something like "a sphere of wood worth 5 sp"), or generated via short rest.
    • Cap the number of monsters held to something that scales, like Strength or Constitution, as a nod to the "throw" or the "carry". Maybe proficiency + STR?
    • Cap the number of monsters by combined CR. Perhaps equal to Druid level? For example, at Level 3, you could get CR 3 worth of Monsters, but can only capture CR 1 creatures, so you could grab 3 CR 1s, 2 CR 1s and 4 CR 1/4s, and so on)
    • Require level CR 1 and higher creatures for the level 10 ability. Because Rattatas are useless.

    Thanks, I limited the level 10 ability to wisdom mod uses power long rest. Then removed the restrictions on amount is monster captured.

    Also added a ball mechanic to make 1 per long rest at the cost of 5 gp per ball. At low levels this is significant, but quickly becomes not a worry.

  15. - Top - End - #825
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    MoleMage's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Some feedback for the submitted classes

    Spoiler: Hive Conclave
    Show
    This is a cool concept. Hive Cluster should probably be made closer to an Artificer Summon - that is, in its' own stat block instead of being written out in abstract.

    Hivemind should be moved to Hivekin at 3rd level... Rangers' 5th level slot is just for their Extra/Coordinated/Alternative Attack.

    I like the Coordinated Strike, but would probably prefer an Extra attack with a warlock-esque way to give up an attack to cause them to take an additional saving throw. That gives the Ranger a bit more flexibility, as they aren't limited in attacks when fighting someone outside of the swarm.

    The piercing stings counting as magical from Potent Venom should probably moved to 7, and the movement reduction from Inhibiting swarm should be moved to Potent Venom.

    I love the innovations
    Thanks for the feedback! I should have some for you tomorrow. I implemented some changes based on this.

    • Stat block implemented for Hive Cluster. Four types of swarms now exist (Ants: Battlefield control/best physical damage, Bees: Protecting Allies, Termites: Toughest swarm, Wasps: Faster and make more "attacks", but deal almost exclusively poison damage). I'll need to rebalance the four against each other still.
    • Hivemind moved to 7th level, instead of down to 3rd (as 3rd already has a lot going on).
    • Coordinated Strike no longer requires that the extra save be the target of the ranger's attack, but if it is they have disadvantage. I didn't want to give them Extra Attack plus something, because no other conclave gives both extra attack and something else.
    • Inhibiting Swarm's move reduction moved to Potent Venom. Potent Venom's magical stings moved to Inhibiting Swarm.
    Signature currently down for maintenance. Expected completion March 22, 3046.

    Spoiler: Contest Awards
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    • Coordinated Strike no longer requires that the extra save be the target of the ranger's attack, but if it is they have disadvantage. I didn't want to give them Extra Attack plus something, because no other conclave gives both extra attack and something else.
    I wasn't thinking putting that in the 5th level ability. I was thinking more like a Chainlocks "Attack, or..." clause. So, something like

    "Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to force a creature in your swarm's space to make their saving throw against your swarm."

    As part of the third level ability. That way you could just give both an "extra attack" AND a coordinated attack.

    However, the update looks good with the coordinated attack, so I can't complain too much.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  17. - Top - End - #827
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    The rest will be coming. Just saving it as few times as I go.

    Spoiler: Guardian Angel
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    This is a really, really unique subclass and fits the theming well. The problem I have is that it feel to me more like an old edition prestige class than a subclass. The struggle I have for this as a subclass is that it doesn't grow as the character grows and doesn't give you extra abilities as you level. There really is no reason that I would take more than 1 level into the Guardian Angel subclass. On the other hand, taking 1 level of Warlock and 1 level of Cleric along with a bunch of levels in something else would be more powerful.

    To put this in as a subclass would make the most sense as a Warlock subclass and having it grow some.



    Spoiler: Shadowtouched
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    I'm assuming that this is a Fighter subclass, should probably mention that.

    Overall, my gut says that there is to much going on with this subclass. As a fighter, you are already getting multiple action surges and 4 attacks (potentially) and this subclass gives some pretty massive bonuses. Other than that, nearly everything in the subclass is combat related (aside from Shadowtouched), it needs more in the social/exploration tiers to balance out the power some.



    Spoiler: Barbarian Path: Legendary Dragoon
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    A little bit of formatting would be pretty nice.... It would just make it easier to read and give a better impression in the judgment phase.

    Beast Companion - I don't foresee anyone using the beast attack in most cases, but I don't see the problem in allowing it.

    Battle Beast - By the power of greyskull? I would define the size here to clarify it. Specifically, I would say that they grow to one size larger than your character size. Why worry about the fly speed ending in a safe place? Just simply make it so that your character falls off, there is a risk vs reward there.

    Dread Companion - What is the save DC based on? Also, this could end up being silly powerful if you don't either have a recharge or have it so that they are immune after the first time affected by it.

    Best(Beast?) Bond - Is the healing aspect of this when you start the rage, or anytime that they are dropped to 0 HP when you are raging?



    Spoiler: Bard-College of Fables
    Show

    Inspiring Story - Is this a replacement for a use of bardic inspiration (ala college of whispers) or an addition? As an addition it seems like to much. It's effectively casting three copies of healing word as a single bonus action and getting more. I think it definitely needs to be a replacement instead. Also, does this work if someone is asleep or unconscious? I would think no, but it should be spelled out.

    Tale Teller's Tall Tales - Wow.... an additional proficiency, expertise in two skills, and a more fluffy ability. I think it is a little bit to much. Maybe only expertise in the choice of persuasion/deception?

    Storytellers Summons - You are giving attacks to the spirits... What is their attack mod? What happens if they have to make saves? It may be worthwhile to make these a spell effects without AC and hp(sort of like the circle of shepherd). Then you don't need to define the AC or HP. Also, what level spells are these is I cast dispel magic on them? Also, the 14th level abilities seem incredibly, incredibly over powered. These are abilities that can completely end an encounter. They really need to be tamed down.



    Spoiler: Oath of the Legion
    Show

    Back Your Partner - Paladin's only get a single use of channel divinity per rest. So, the last paragraph doesn't make a whole lore of sense here. I don't really like the mechanic here were you can get your channel divinity back. The idea of calling them back is cool, but I would have calling them back do something else (heal HP per allies level pulled back, they die in a burst of energy doing damage, whatever).



    Spoiler: Paladin Oath of the Diabolist
    Show

    I like the way the flavor is going here, obviously you need to fill some of that in there, but it looks pretty interesting. There is very little that I feel needs to be changed or modified. It looks like an extremely playable class.



    Spoiler: Roguish Archetype Ė Bladecloak
    Show

    Knife at the Ready - The phrasing here is a little bit wonky. It could be tightened up some to make the whole thing clearer. Something like
    "Starting at 3rd level, you have a seemingly endless supply of knives. When you make a ranged weapon attack with a dagger, as part of the Attack action you can reach into a pocket dimension in your cloak and draw an exact copy of one of your bonded daggers. These daggers disintegrate at the end of your turn."

    Hidden Cuts - replacing "at its lowest spell level" with "as a 2nd level spell" would be clearer.
    Does this need to be limited in some way? As written you could use your bonus action to hide each turn and cast this spell every single turn (especially if your stealth is bad). Also, does it require concentration?

    Symphony of Daggers - This is pretty awesome.... Question though, does the sneak attack count as your PCs sneak attack? Or can you sneak attack with the animated daggers and also sneak attack on your turn? Also, does this require concentration?


    Spoiler: The Lineage
    Show

    Overall this is a pretty tight subclass, I don't see a whole lot that needs adjustment in function or flavor.

    Boon of Legacies - The recalling and doing something mechanic here seem overly complicated. Dancer - Gives you the ability to use disengage as a bonus action and +5 movement speed. Protector - You conjure shield into your free hand and get +2 to ac... etc. Simplifying the mechanic here seems worthwhile.


    Spoiler: Revised Ranger Conclave: The Hive Conclave
    Show

    This is pretty sweet, flavorful and for the most case balanced well. Sure, I've always had a soft spot for ranger subclasses, but I haven't seen a good bug related one and this is a very good implementation of it.

    Hive Swarm - Damage immunities here seem a little excessive. You are going to be able to summon these things in a lot of cases and never have to worry about them taking damage. Plus in looking in the MM it appears that many swarms have resistance instead of immunities.



    Spoiler: Way of the Gemini
    Show

    Looks like a Monk subclass.... Make sure you mention that :) This is a pretty cool concept, but there are a few problematic features that need to be addressed. Still, it's a solid start.

    Multilocation - What happens if the duplicate is hit with dispel magic or a fireball? Do they make a save or die? Also, this starts getting a little bit odd when the duplicates can move away from you. How do they target the duplicates who are 50 feet away?

    Myriad Strike - Just add in there that the duplicates use your attack mod and damage and this should be good.

    Displacement by Decoy - As a reaction to what?


  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    The rest will be coming. Just saving it as few times as I go.

    Spoiler: Guardian Angel
    Show


    This is a really, really unique subclass and fits the theming well. The problem I have is that it feel to me more like an old edition prestige class than a subclass. The struggle I have for this as a subclass is that it doesn't grow as the character grows and doesn't give you extra abilities as you level. There really is no reason that I would take more than 1 level into the Guardian Angel subclass. On the other hand, taking 1 level of Warlock and 1 level of Cleric along with a bunch of levels in something else would be more powerful.

    To put this in as a subclass would make the most sense as a Warlock subclass and having it grow some.



    Spoiler: Shadowtouched
    Show

    I'm assuming that this is a Fighter subclass, should probably mention that.

    Overall, my gut says that there is to much going on with this subclass. As a fighter, you are already getting multiple action surges and 4 attacks (potentially) and this subclass gives some pretty massive bonuses. Other than that, nearly everything in the subclass is combat related (aside from Shadowtouched), it needs more in the social/exploration tiers to balance out the power some.



    Spoiler: Barbarian Path: Legendary Dragoon
    Show

    A little bit of formatting would be pretty nice.... It would just make it easier to read and give a better impression in the judgment phase.

    Beast Companion - I don't foresee anyone using the beast attack in most cases, but I don't see the problem in allowing it.

    Battle Beast - By the power of greyskull? I would define the size here to clarify it. Specifically, I would say that they grow to one size larger than your character size. Why worry about the fly speed ending in a safe place? Just simply make it so that your character falls off, there is a risk vs reward there.

    Dread Companion - What is the save DC based on? Also, this could end up being silly powerful if you don't either have a recharge or have it so that they are immune after the first time affected by it.

    Best(Beast?) Bond - Is the healing aspect of this when you start the rage, or anytime that they are dropped to 0 HP when you are raging?



    Spoiler: Bard-College of Fables
    Show

    Inspiring Story - Is this a replacement for a use of bardic inspiration (ala college of whispers) or an addition? As an addition it seems like to much. It's effectively casting three copies of healing word as a single bonus action and getting more. I think it definitely needs to be a replacement instead. Also, does this work if someone is asleep or unconscious? I would think no, but it should be spelled out.

    Tale Teller's Tall Tales - Wow.... an additional proficiency, expertise in two skills, and a more fluffy ability. I think it is a little bit to much. Maybe only expertise in the choice of persuasion/deception?

    Storytellers Summons - You are giving attacks to the spirits... What is their attack mod? What happens if they have to make saves? It may be worthwhile to make these a spell effects without AC and hp(sort of like the circle of shepherd). Then you don't need to define the AC or HP. Also, what level spells are these is I cast dispel magic on them? Also, the 14th level abilities seem incredibly, incredibly over powered. These are abilities that can completely end an encounter. They really need to be tamed down.



    Spoiler: Oath of the Legion
    Show

    Back Your Partner - Paladin's only get a single use of channel divinity per rest. So, the last paragraph doesn't make a whole lore of sense here. I don't really like the mechanic here were you can get your channel divinity back. The idea of calling them back is cool, but I would have calling them back do something else (heal HP per allies level pulled back, they die in a burst of energy doing damage, whatever).



    Spoiler: Paladin Oath of the Diabolist
    Show

    I like the way the flavor is going here, obviously you need to fill some of that in there, but it looks pretty interesting. There is very little that I feel needs to be changed or modified. It looks like an extremely playable class.



    Spoiler: Roguish Archetype Ė Bladecloak
    Show

    Knife at the Ready - The phrasing here is a little bit wonky. It could be tightened up some to make the whole thing clearer. Something like
    "Starting at 3rd level, you have a seemingly endless supply of knives. When you make a ranged weapon attack with a dagger, as part of the Attack action you can reach into a pocket dimension in your cloak and draw an exact copy of one of your bonded daggers. These daggers disintegrate at the end of your turn."

    Hidden Cuts - replacing "at its lowest spell level" with "as a 2nd level spell" would be clearer.
    Does this need to be limited in some way? As written you could use your bonus action to hide each turn and cast this spell every single turn (especially if your stealth is bad). Also, does it require concentration?

    Symphony of Daggers - This is pretty awesome.... Question though, does the sneak attack count as your PCs sneak attack? Or can you sneak attack with the animated daggers and also sneak attack on your turn? Also, does this require concentration?


    Spoiler: The Lineage
    Show

    Overall this is a pretty tight subclass, I don't see a whole lot that needs adjustment in function or flavor.

    Boon of Legacies - The recalling and doing something mechanic here seem overly complicated. Dancer - Gives you the ability to use disengage as a bonus action and +5 movement speed. Protector - You conjure shield into your free hand and get +2 to ac... etc. Simplifying the mechanic here seems worthwhile.


    Spoiler: Revised Ranger Conclave: The Hive Conclave
    Show

    This is pretty sweet, flavorful and for the most case balanced well. Sure, I've always had a soft spot for ranger subclasses, but I haven't seen a good bug related one and this is a very good implementation of it.

    Hive Swarm - Damage immunities here seem a little excessive. You are going to be able to summon these things in a lot of cases and never have to worry about them taking damage. Plus in looking in the MM it appears that many swarms have resistance instead of immunities.



    Spoiler: Way of the Gemini
    Show

    Looks like a Monk subclass.... Make sure you mention that :) This is a pretty cool concept, but there are a few problematic features that need to be addressed. Still, it's a solid start.

    Multilocation - What happens if the duplicate is hit with dispel magic or a fireball? Do they make a save or die? Also, this starts getting a little bit odd when the duplicates can move away from you. How do they target the duplicates who are 50 feet away?

    Myriad Strike - Just add in there that the duplicates use your attack mod and damage and this should be good.

    Displacement by Decoy - As a reaction to what?

    Thanks for your feedback on the Legendary Dragoon Barbarian Path!
    The default Mount rules make it clear a creature has to be one size larger than you to be used as a mount, the feature says it grows in size to accommodate you as a mount, if it already can be a mount the growth would be cosmetic. I added ďin your default formĒ so itís clear it doesnít become a a titanic creature if you Wildshape into a mammoth or something.

    Battle Beast notes that if you donít end in a safe space you both fall.

    Dread Companionís existing text explicitly states enemies that succeed on the save are immune for 24 hours.

    Bond of Shared Vigor (formerly Best bond), I added the word Initiate for clarity.

    As for formatting Iíll have a pdf available this weekend.
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-08-16 at 11:10 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #829
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post

    Dread Companionís existing text explicitly states enemies that succeed on the save are immune for 24 hours.
    Actually my concern was for a low wisdom enemy who gets hit with it over and over again. It seems like it could turn an encounter pointless in a hurry. I was thinking something like. After the creature has been affected by this spell once they are immune. So, pass or fail they are immune for 24 hours after that. It still is prett darn good, but a little more limiting.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    The rest will be coming. Just saving it as few times as I go.

    Spoiler: The Lineage
    Show

    Overall this is a pretty tight subclass, I don't see a whole lot that needs adjustment in function or flavor.

    Boon of Legacies - The recalling and doing something mechanic here seem overly complicated. Dancer - Gives you the ability to use disengage as a bonus action and +5 movement speed. Protector - You conjure shield into your free hand and get +2 to ac... etc. Simplifying the mechanic here seems worthwhile.

    Dancer is written as it is since Boon of legacies takes a bonus action, and you wouldn't be able to use the effect of the dancer on the first turn otherwise.

    The description of protector was mostly meant to give a bit more flavor, but I will remove it if it is to distracting.

  21. - Top - End - #831
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Actually my concern was for a low wisdom enemy who gets hit with it over and over again. It seems like it could turn an encounter pointless in a hurry. I was thinking something like. After the creature has been affected by this spell once they are immune. So, pass or fail they are immune for 24 hours after that. It still is prett darn good, but a little more limiting.
    I think Iíll leave it as is for now. This is way less effective than Monk stun lock. This ends automatically like Stunning Fist but applies a significantly weaker condition and to reengage, the PC would have to back up, provoking an AoO (possibly several) and then come back. Even with the Mobile feat the Mount would provoke and without mounted combatant feat itís not going to last long.

    But this does remind me, it doesnít get the AC buff if itís wearing armor.

  22. - Top - End - #832
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I think Iíll leave it as is for now. This is way less effective than Monk stun lock. This ends automatically like Stunning Fist but applies a significantly weaker condition and to reengage, the PC would have to back up, provoking an AoO (possibly several) and then come back. Even with the Mobile feat the Mount would provoke and without mounted combatant feat itís not going to last long.

    But this does remind me, it doesnít get the AC buff if itís wearing armor.
    Fair enough, I just make suggestions as I see things and other see things differently than I do At least I managed to remind you about something completely unrelated

  23. - Top - End - #833
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    I'm worried that a pair of largely ribbon utility abilities isn't quite good experience at 3rd level. If you combine the two (I'll add it below) and add some more exciting/active at level 3:
    • A sly flourish, allowing you to intimidate a target as a bonus action to give the target disadvantage against you, or give you advantage?
    • bumping up the damage die of finesse weapons you wield?
    • the ability to cast sword burst as a bonus action?
    • Lean into the thrown abilities, with things like sharpshooter for thrown weapons?

    Knife at the Ready
    Starting at 3rd level, you have a seemingly endless supply of knives. You can perform a ritual over the course of 1 hour that creates a magical bond between yourself and your daggers, which can be done during a short rest. You can create the bond with a magical dagger, but you canít affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. You can summon or dismiss that weapon as a bonus action on your turn, shunting it into or pulling it from an extradimensional space. You can have up to two bonded weapons and can summon both with your bonus action. If you attempt to bond with a third weapon, you must break the bond with one of the other two.
    In addition, when you make a ranged weapon attack with a dagger, as part of the Attack action you can reach into a pocket dimension in your cloak and draw an exact copy of the dagger that you just threw. Thrown daggers lose any magical properties at the end of your current turn and disappear from existence after one minute.
    I considered making them all one ability, but it's a bit of a "wall of text" when combined. I kept them separate largely for readability.

    I think "increasing the damage die of your bonded daggers" is my favorite option for a minor power boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post

    Spoiler: Roguish Archetype Ė Bladecloak
    Show

    Knife at the Ready - The phrasing here is a little bit wonky. It could be tightened up some to make the whole thing clearer. Something like
    "Starting at 3rd level, you have a seemingly endless supply of knives. When you make a ranged weapon attack with a dagger, as part of the Attack action you can reach into a pocket dimension in your cloak and draw an exact copy of one of your bonded daggers. These daggers disintegrate at the end of your turn."

    Hidden Cuts - replacing "at its lowest spell level" with "as a 2nd level spell" would be clearer.
    Does this need to be limited in some way? As written you could use your bonus action to hide each turn and cast this spell every single turn (especially if your stealth is bad). Also, does it require concentration?

    Symphony of Daggers - This is pretty awesome.... Question though, does the sneak attack count as your PCs sneak attack? Or can you sneak attack with the animated daggers and also sneak attack on your turn? Also, does this require concentration?
    For Knife at the Ready, it was largely a stylistic/aesthetic reason that I let them exist for a minute. I like the visualization of a battlefield covered with piles and piles of knives while the Bladecloak runs around continually chucking them their enemies. It probably makes more sense to change it though.

    For Hidden Cuts, I added a "once per short rest" limiter. For concentration, I really don't know... I guess since the spell requires it, so should this ability, but since it goes away as soon as it damages someone it might not need it. I added it just to be safe.

    For Symphony, it states that it requires concentration in the second-to-last sentence. I added a bit of clarification to the ability. Please let me know if it has improved readability. Thanks.

    Roguish Archetype Ė Bladecloak

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Spoiler: Guardian Angel
    Show


    I like the idea and how you're turning the contest on its head. Looking forward to the finished product.



    Spoiler: Shadowmaster Fighter
    Show


    You need a header section that names the subclass and specifies that it is for the fighter class.

    • I don't like Mark of Darkness as part of this class. The rotating charges have a bag of rats problem, and it feels out of place with the rest of the features. I'd rather see a static number of uses tied to normal recovery mechanics on Shadow Soldiers itself.
    • Shadow Soldiers are too cheap to activate. At low levels where you'll only have 1 or 2 it isn't terrible, but once you have 4 and 5 (which is doable considering their long duration and the number of charges you can store in your weapon), you're getting 4 or 5 attacks as a bonus action, which is a lot.
    • Shadow Giant: stats look fine.
    • Encroaching Shadows: As with the concern about bonus action economy on baseline soldiers, the fact is that once you have more soldiers than attacks, this is just too strong, especially considering your soldiers still can take their bonus action attacks.
    • Black Armaments: A fun way to build your own battalion.
    • Darkness Rising: Seems okay. Spreading the healing out is nice, but they are temporary units and their max health isn't great so you're probably overhealing several of them anyway.
    • Enduring Shadows: Unlike the Action Surge and Second Wind variants, this one only affects a single soldier. I think it's in a good place. The second part was confusing because you didn't restrict the soldiers' ability to make opportunity attacks previously, so it looks like you're giving them a feature they already had. I assume they were supposed to lack that feature initially until you get Enduring Shadows.
    • Master of Shadows: As a long rest capstone feature, this seems fine. I like that some of its attacks require your full action and some your bonus action, and I think treating the army in the same way might be appropriate.



    I think overall the class just needs a bit of trimming down. As mentioned, I'd rather see charges built into Shadow Soldiers itself. Also, the number of soldiers you can activate per bonus action should be reduced, but maybe allow activating them in other ways (as an action activate all soldiers, in place of an attack activate two soldiers, etc.).


    Spoiler: Dragoon
    Show

    I'd like to see some formatting cleanup here, especially bolding for headers and the like.

    • Beast Companion: This is a little hard to follow because it feels like it jumps back and forth. I'd break it into sections: 1) how you get the beast 2) how the beast's stats change and healing 3) how the beast takes actions, bonus actions, and reactions. It also seems redundant that your beast can dash/dodge/disengage either when you command it to or when you yourself do so. I'd just leave the command it part in there and take out the mimicry part.
    • Battle Beast: The wording initially makes it seem that this is an innate function of the beast, but a closer reading makes it seem like it's intended to be a temporary effect while raging. It also isn't clear whether you can command your beast to attack as a bonus action and then also give up your own attacks or not.
    • Dread Companion: I like this feature. It encourages engaging multiple foes.
    • Best Bond: Should this be beast bond? The hit point recovery probably shouldn't require a 0 hp companion (especially considering that you only get one turn to heal the companion before it dies and might already be in a rage).
    • Legendary Forme: Do you pick the transformation each time you rage? CR 7 might be a bit high. The CR 6-7 dragons for example have hit points in triple digits, AC 18, and breath weapons that are as high as 11d8, on top of their 80 ft fly speed.


    I think it's a fun class. It's hard to predict balance because beasts, monstrosities, and dragons are not all created equal, even within the same CR.



    Spoiler: College of Fables
    Show

    It's a fun idea. Stories are power is one of my favorite themes for magic.

    Inspiring Story: I'd limit this to creatures below half health, similarly to Life Domain. As it stands, the bard gets 3x level healed hit points per inspiration die (up to 15x level as soon as their charisma hits 20). Compare to Lay on Hands (5x level) or Life Domain's channel effect (5x level per channel, capping at 15x at level 18, but also can only heal to half maximum).
    Tall Tales: As written, you actually get double proficiency in both skills, even if you aren't proficient in one of them. (If I am proficient in neither skill and pick Persuasion, I also get double proficiency to Deception despite not even having normal proficiency in Deception). Otherwise it's okay.
    Storyteller's summons. The number of uses is probably too high for independent summons. I think otherwise it's fine, though I'd like to see more stats (move speed, size, attributes/attack bonuses) before I commit to that.
    Countless Tales: This isn't a very exciting feature, and it's probably too strong especially combined with Inspiring Story (now it caps at 30x level healing, which is just...a lot).

    Overall, I like the concept but I feel like this doesn't deliver on the contest theme as strongly as it could. Make the summoned story characters a more central feature of the subclass and give them more detail and I'd be much happier.


    Spoiler: Oath of the Legion
    Show

    I wasn't sure whether this was going to be a mundane legion or a "we are legion" situation at first, but your fluff blurb was unambiguous. I like the idea of a paladin who swears to a mundane group instead of a divine one.

    • Throughout, you have references to "ease of gameplay" justifying mechanics. While these are good commentary for the design process (and suitable for this thread), they are out of place in feature descriptions.
    • Oath Spells: Leomund's secret chest seems odd. Rest are okay.
    • Channel Divinity: I see this is where you put the core summoning feature. I was going to comment that Paladins normally get two Channel Divinity options, but I actually think it might be appropriate, given how big this one is, to only have one. It also puts a pretty hard limit on the number you can summon (basically 1 or 2 if you downsummon) since Paladins only get one use of Channel Divinity.
    • Back Your Partner: This functionally means that you always have your allies with you (since they last longer than a fight unless they die or you do).
    • By My Command: I like this, but it does exacerbate the nova paladin problem (you're using up the same amount of resources, yes, but you're also doing it in a shorter period of time). Maybe limit the usage to either the paladin or one veteran each round or require the investiture of the spell slots when the veteran is created which are lost if the veteran dies.
    • Master Commander: Do the auras stack? I assume not, because +3xCha to all saves is a lot of saving throw bonus. I do want the damage reduction to stack, though. I think it's not strong enough as a feature without that functionality.



    Overall, I think you have one of the cleaner summoning mechanics in the thread so far, and I like the theme. Some features aren't entirely clear (Master Commander) and it looks like you built it assuming the paladin would get more Channel Divinities later, which they don't.



    Here's the first half of the reviews. I will be back tomorrow afternoon hopefully with the rest of them.
    Signature currently down for maintenance. Expected completion March 22, 3046.

    Spoiler: Contest Awards
    Show

  25. - Top - End - #835
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    ]

    Spoiler: Dragoon
    Show

    I'd like to see some formatting cleanup here, especially bolding for headers and the like.

    • Beast Companion: This is a little hard to follow because it feels like it jumps back and forth. I'd break it into sections: 1) how you get the beast 2) how the beast's stats change and healing 3) how the beast takes actions, bonus actions, and reactions. It also seems redundant that your beast can dash/dodge/disengage either when you command it to or when you yourself do so. I'd just leave the command it part in there and take out the mimicry part.
    • Battle Beast: The wording initially makes it seem that this is an innate function of the beast, but a closer reading makes it seem like it's intended to be a temporary effect while raging. It also isn't clear whether you can command your beast to attack as a bonus action and then also give up your own attacks or not.
    • Dread Companion: I like this feature. It encourages engaging multiple foes.
    • Best Bond: Should this be beast bond? The hit point recovery probably shouldn't require a 0 hp companion (especially considering that you only get one turn to heal the companion before it dies and might already be in a rage).
    • Legendary Forme: Do you pick the transformation each time you rage? CR 7 might be a bit high. The CR 6-7 dragons for example have hit points in triple digits, AC 18, and breath weapons that are as high as 11d8, on top of their 80 ft fly speed.


    I think it's a fun class. It's hard to predict balance because beasts, monstrosities, and dragons are not all created equal, even within the same CR.



    Thanks so much for your feedback! I realize the language is pretty rough for the beast companion but I didnít want to cut paste Beastmaster (understood to be bad) and Iíve actively disliked the conclave fixes theyíve attempted. Iíve made a Beastmaster that worked well enough but it requires too many specific choices to just be on par.

    Iíve touched up the organization and some of the language in the companion description. The action mimic was to make room for the odd charger build or rounds you canít take a bonus action but still want your companion to dodge. Iíve dumped it for clarityís sake.

    Battle Beast
    I touched up the language so hopefully itís clear that feature modifies Rage.
    Also, Iím a strong believer in the ďIf it doesnít say you canít, then you should tryĒ philosophy of rule interpretation. If it breaks, donít do it. If itís making things more fun, do it. So, by default yes, while Con bonus times while raging you could use a bonus action to have your companion use its action to attack and then take the attack action, sacrifice an attack to have the companion use its reaction to make a second attack. You can only do that if youíre not mounted but some companion choices might encourage it (giant poisonous snake). For most, swinging youíre big axe is probably the better choice.

    Changed best bond to Bond of Shared Vigor, itís more of a Ribbon ability that is fantastic in specific instances (like when youíre ambushed or you both drop but your roll a 20 on your death save and can immediately stand up, Rage, hop on your alive again mount and lay waste to foes.

    Legendary Form... the idea is you sort of tie a story about a hero to your mount, and the world is full of stories. I think most people that play want to do something cool, and coolest isnít always strongest. I want to ride a massive basilisk, I love their modern design, a kobold dexbarian probably wants Dragon every time.

    I did touch up the mechanics though so it keeps its own Int, language, and Max HP. But as far as the big breath weapons or other abilities, itís a level 14 capstone and costs exhaustion, a mechanic which explicitly makes the Frenzied Berserker considered one of the worst subclasses, behind Beastmaster for the race to bottom. So Iím okay with it.

  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Paladin's only get a single use of channel divinity per rest. So, the last paragraph doesn't make a whole lore of sense here.
    Excessively cautious wording because multiclassing. The idea of a cleric/paladin hybrid conjuring an army of Allies is interesting...but I don't really want them doing that multiple times per day, regardless of what oath, domain, items, feats, or class/subclasses exist that I don't happen to know about.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I don't really like the mechanic here were you can get your channel divinity back. The idea of calling them back is cool, but I would have calling them back do something else
    I wanted the paladin to basically have a "permanent companion pet", able to use it and store it when needed, but as you pointed out above, one use/day doesn't give most paladins a lot of options here. One option was to make it a separate mechanic, but this would have given them Channel Divinity also, and I wasn't ready to do that out of fear they'd be overpowered. This way, the paladin can effectively "store" a wounded or useless Ally, sacrificing its use in the current fight in exchange for use in a later one. I blatantly ripped it off of FFX.

  27. - Top - End - #837
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Leomund's secret chest seems odd.
    Summoning a personal armory, basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Back Your Partner: This functionally means that you always have your allies with you
    As stated above, that's basically the point. The paladin is more than able to sacrifice them if need be, in a short term vs. long term strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Maybe limit the usage to either the paladin or one veteran each round
    I wasn't familiar with the "paladin nova" issue but the name seems very descriptive. I was hoping the maximum spell level each Ally could use was enough of a restriction, but I would be tempted to allow only one Ally to use a spell slot per round, even if the paladin has multiple. As for "the paladin can't use a spell slot if their Ally does" I'm not there yet, but I might be later.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Do the auras stack?
    No.

    I'd be tempted to let the damage reduction stack, but only if it didn't stack with any other damage reduction barring resistance. Again, I'm mostly concerned about other game mechanics I just don't know about. If, say, four character each somehow give -3 damage/hit to themselves and each other, they start shrugging off tarasque claws.

  28. - Top - End - #838
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    More feedback!

    Spoiler: Oath of the Diabolist
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    6 entries in and we finally got to that most iconic of summonable things, the demon!

    • Oath Spells: It might just be my personal preference, but I like to see spells that come from somewhere other than the PHB with a note about what book they're in. Something like Summon Lesser Demons (XgtE) is fine.
    • Channel Divinity: Find Familiar has a functionally permanent duration, while most channel divinity options are temporary or instantaneous. If your familiar is a fiend, does it count for the purposes of Rally Fiend? If not Rally Fiend doesn't do anything until you get 3rd level spells.
    • Aura of Warding: This is highly situational but also crazy strong if you are dealing with fiends. I don't know how to rate it.
    • Cunning Tongue: This is a pretty small feature for level 15. I would give all languages Tongue of the Sun and Moon style.
    • Calling in Favors: Seems fine. CR 6 might be a little weak for a capstone.



    Overall, it's pretty bare-bones right now. Looking forward to seeing it with the descriptive portions added.


    Spoiler: Bladecloak Rogue
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    Summoning items! I'm glad it happened.

    • Dagger Bond: Wording seems okay. The damage die increase is a nice perk. The bonus action cost is perhaps a bit much.
    • Knife at the Ready: As written, any knife you throw loses its magical properties and disappears, even if you don't choose to draw a duplicate of it. It's clear by context what the intent is, but you might want to change that last sentence to be specific.
    • Hidden Cuts: Does Hidden Cuts also grant you the supernatural ability to know when someone has noticed you? Without that knowledge, you can't know to use the Reaction, but with it, you get a pretty significant perk for infiltration.
    • Primordial Blades: Half of these are duplicating cantrip riders, so I'll talk about the other half. Acid and Poison are fine as-is. The poisoned condition is one of the weaker conditions and lots of stuff is immune to it besides. Fire's effect does have a large damage potential but its caveat means that a proactive team of enemies could even take 0 damage from many strikes. Thunder is the issue for me. Since you aren't locked into an element until you use the action, there is no opportunity cost to having thunder available. And since it performs so strongly in its small situation, I think it needs to be toned down.
    • Symphony of Daggers: A fun capstone. As it's basically a 5th level spell 1/long rest it isn't out of line. The only thing it adds is that you can sneak attack with the animated objects and they count as +1 weapons. The former mostly compensates for not being able to use Cunning Action effectively during the Symphony and the latter just make this a little bit more than a simple 5th level spell.



    Overall I think you're great for theme and delivery. Just a couple of places to tighten up wording or give intent clarifications, and Primordial Thunder needs to be tweaked.


    Spoiler: Lineage Sorcerer
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    Would you believe that my RL group suggested basically this but as a fighter archetype when I told them about the new contest? I think it works better as a sorcerer.

    • Friends on the Other Side: Interesting. I don't know of anything else which gives ritual casting of a spell that would otherwise be inaccessible. Augury and Speak with Dead should both be okay here though.
    • Memories of a Forgotten Past: Seems okay. At later levels this means 100% uptime, but expertise in History isn't enough to make a fuss about.
    • Boon of Legacies: I like this idea, but I'd like to see a couple more options in there (where's the Priest, or the Warrior?). The existing options mostly seem fine, though Dancer and Protector could do with a tiered improvement ("at level 14, the move speed bonus increases to 10 ft.").
    • Encouraged by History: 5 temporary HP isn't going to break the system if you let them last until the end of combat. Though as it's tied to all spell slots and a sorcerer has a lot of them at this point it's probably fine.
    • Calling the Ancestors: It's a nice capstone. It does give a lot of functionally third-level spells, but they're tied to a feature that costs the equivalent of a 2nd-level slot every time, so I'm inclined to think it's balanced.


    I kind of like that this sorcerer gets so many of its benefits automatically for doing normal sorcerer stuff, as it lets you put more complexity into the most compelling feature. Overall I think you've stuck to the theme and to your own concept really well, and the class is mechanically sound.


    Spoiler: Way of the Gemini
    Show

    Gotta love the idea of moving so fast you're two people. Classic trope, and an interesting way to make a summoning class.

    • Multilocation: A (very slightly) more complicated mirror image. 3 ki points for a 2nd level spell is about right.
    • Myriad Strike: Does using this feature count as taking the attack action for Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows? Is the duplicate's attack with Flurry of Blows in addition to your own two attacks? A bit of clarification of intent here would be nice. It also should specify how your duplicates that you have split off move (do they still mirror your own movement, but offset by a specific amount? Move on their own? Stand still unless you use Myriad Strike again?).
    • Displacement by Decoy: If you have duplicates in your space and duplicates that are split off when you swap spaces, do the ones attached to you come with you? Balance-wise it seems like they should (otherwise you can use this feature until the cows come home), but that also acts as a sort of tip-off to your actual location (which also might be a good thing).
    • Splinter Twin: How many ki points does the twin have, and if it shares your stats does that mean you have 1 shared HP pool? Other than this one question I think you've plugged all the holes pretty well in writing this feature. The portion about regaining ki points or hit dice seems redundant given that the twin is lost when you complete a rest (though I guess this would come up if your twin takes a rest but you don't). The specification about not leveling up also seems unnecessary.



    I'm not much of a comics guy, but I do enjoy the Flash tv series, and I think your speed clones are pretty well-built in the structure of 5e mechanics. Once you add some clarifications about feature interaction you've got a strong entry here.


    Spoiler: Circle of the Pocket Monster
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    I've been a follower of the Pokemon games throughout, so this appeals to me on an additional basis.

    • Catching them All: Your first sentence needs a rewrite. It looks like you changed it halfway through but left half of the original sentence in there. I'm torn on the cost of materials portion of crafting the storage balls. On the one hand it means you don't have a hard limit on the number you can carry around with you, on the other 5e's wealth mechanics are a lot looser than previous editions (there are suggested wealth by level guidelines still but they are much less necessary to remain viable). I think it's low enough that you're probably okay, though early druids might be frustrated at the cost. I'm also not sure about the inclusion of aberrations and especially fey, as those creature types commonly have very powerful abilities that exceed their CR. 1/3rd level is probably fine though.
    • You're my Choice: Permadeath seems to be the most appropriate method for DnD. I'd limit it to one summoned at a time, but with only two wildshape uses it's probably okay.
    • Playing to Win: Basically Moon Druid healing but for your summons. Since the summon progression is based on Moon Druid's form progression this seems fitting.
    • Sacrificing for a Friend: I'd rather see the damage done in one big burst, if only because then instead of 1d8+CR, you could do CRd8 and I like dropping big handfuls of dice on the table. Addiing the extra resource to prevent just using this every turn seems about right.
    • Master Catcher: It seems like Catching them All already allowed the capture of unconscious-but-not-dead creatures (as they have fewer than 10 HP). You might want to clarify in Catching them All that unconscious creatures cannot be captured, if that was your intent (it would seem appropriate given the source).



    Honestly, this subclass ran the risk of being absurdly complicated, but you made it seem as simple as normal wild shape, which is noteworthy by itself. Looking forward to it with the flavor added.


    And as of my last refresh about an hour and a half ago, that's all the entries! The word of the day seems to be "clarification", which given how complicated summoning in a ttRPG can get, makes nothing but sense. Still, everyone's classes have such a unique take on the theme and I'm really enjoying that.
    Signature currently down for maintenance. Expected completion March 22, 3046.

    Spoiler: Contest Awards
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  29. - Top - End - #839
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post

    Spoiler: Lineage Sorcerer
    Show

    Would you believe that my RL group suggested basically this but as a fighter archetype when I told them about the new contest? I think it works better as a sorcerer.

    • Friends on the Other Side: Interesting. I don't know of anything else which gives ritual casting of a spell that would otherwise be inaccessible. Augury and Speak with Dead should both be okay here though.
    • Memories of a Forgotten Past: Seems okay. At later levels this means 100% uptime, but expertise in History isn't enough to make a fuss about.
    • Boon of Legacies: I like this idea, but I'd like to see a couple more options in there (where's the Priest, or the Warrior?). The existing options mostly seem fine, though Dancer and Protector could do with a tiered improvement ("at level 14, the move speed bonus increases to 10 ft.").
    • Encouraged by History: 5 temporary HP isn't going to break the system if you let them last until the end of combat. Though as it's tied to all spell slots and a sorcerer has a lot of them at this point it's probably fine.
    • Calling the Ancestors: It's a nice capstone. It does give a lot of functionally third-level spells, but they're tied to a feature that costs the equivalent of a 2nd-level slot every time, so I'm inclined to think it's balanced.


    I kind of like that this sorcerer gets so many of its benefits automatically for doing normal sorcerer stuff, as it lets you put more complexity into the most compelling feature. Overall I think you've stuck to the theme and to your own concept really well, and the class is mechanically sound.
    Thanks!

    I was thinking about adding a few more options for boon of legacies but I haven't had time to come up with ideas for them yet. And a single tiered step might be worth it for those two.

  30. - Top - End - #840
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    More feedback!
    Spoiler: Way of the Gemini
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    Gotta love the idea of moving so fast you're two people. Classic trope, and an interesting way to make a summoning class.

    • Multilocation: A (very slightly) more complicated mirror image. 3 ki points for a 2nd level spell is about right.
    • Myriad Strike: Does using this feature count as taking the attack action for Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows? Is the duplicate's attack with Flurry of Blows in addition to your own two attacks? A bit of clarification of intent here would be nice. It also should specify how your duplicates that you have split off move (do they still mirror your own movement, but offset by a specific amount? Move on their own? Stand still unless you use Myriad Strike again?).
    • Displacement by Decoy: If you have duplicates in your space and duplicates that are split off when you swap spaces, do the ones attached to you come with you? Balance-wise it seems like they should (otherwise you can use this feature until the cows come home), but that also acts as a sort of tip-off to your actual location (which also might be a good thing).
    • Splinter Twin: How many ki points does the twin have, and if it shares your stats does that mean you have 1 shared HP pool? Other than this one question I think you've plugged all the holes pretty well in writing this feature. The portion about regaining ki points or hit dice seems redundant given that the twin is lost when you complete a rest (though I guess this would come up if your twin takes a rest but you don't). The specification about not leveling up also seems unnecessary.

    • For Myriad Strike - If you send a duplicate to attack, you aren't attacking yourself. You have to use an action to move it around, and it doesn't do anything unless you spend your action. This is upgraded later in the Twin, who CAN dodge and help by themselves (as a super-familiar!), and you can either Flurry of blows yourself, or use your bonus action to command the Twin to Attack with their FoB using their Bonus action.
    • For Displacement, yes, the dups in your space follow you. I upgraded the wording to be more clear.
    • For Splinter Twin, they'd have however many you'd have after spending 10 ki on it - so, provided you didn't do anything prior to creating a twin, both you and your twin would have 7, 8, 9, or 10 Ki points at levels 17, 18, 19, or 20, respectively. Most of the wording is lovingly stolen from the Simulacrum spell, which is why it's written so well . You and your twin have separate ki pools and health pools, but identical stats provided you have no magic items that effects those stats (If you have Bracers of Defense and an AC of 22, your twin has "Bracers that look like Bracers of Defense" and an AC of 20). You were right about the resting rider - I didn't want each Gemini Monk to start each day with "I make a Twin, and immediately take a short rest" so they can run around with full ki points AND a twin with half or less. So, if either of you rest, the twin vanishes. Same with leveling - If you Level from 17-18 with an active twin, your Twin is still level 17.


    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Spoiler: Way of the Gemini
    Show

    Looks like a Monk subclass.... Make sure you mention that :) This is a pretty cool concept, but there are a few problematic features that need to be addressed. Still, it's a solid start.
    Multilocation - What happens if the duplicate is hit with dispel magic or a fireball? Do they make a save or die? Also, this starts getting a little bit odd when the duplicates can move away from you. How do they target the duplicates who are 50 feet away?
    Myriad Strike - Just add in there that the duplicates use your attack mod and damage and this should be good.
    Displacement by Decoy - As a reaction to what?
    I thought the "Way of" title was effectively monk enough, as that is how all of the monk archetypes are identified, but I can further clarify.
    • Multilocation has stats for the duplicate - A duplicateís AC equals 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom Modifier (basically, "Unarmored Defense minus 2") and they act not dissimilar to a minion from 4th edition - A duplicate can be destroyed only by an attack that hits it and ignores all other damage and effects. (including Fireball, running through Spike Growth, et cetera). The feature is basically Mirror image, but isn't a spell. So it'd be equally as dispel-magic-able as an enchantment wizards' Hypnotic Gaze.
    • Myriad Strike - Nice catch, wording updated.
    • Displacement - Just, like, a reaction, man. To LIFE. I updated the wording to follow the Shepherd Druid's Eagle Aura, so it triggers on an attack by whoever. That allows you to "react" to an ally's attack to BAMF over there, while still allowing you to BAMF away if someone is attacking you specifically.
    Last edited by Vogie; 2019-08-19 at 11:56 AM.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

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