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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    @Blackbando

    Thanks for the feedback! I have made adjustments to each ability you mentioned, some for clarity and some for reworking.

    Also, how would transhumanoid or post-humanoid sound as alternative names for the last ability?
    Last edited by sengmeng; 2018-07-09 at 06:08 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I like the name "Transhumanoid".

    By the way, in 5e (to my knowledge, at least), there are no more spells costing XP.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbando View Post
    I like the name "Transhumanoid".

    By the way, in 5e (to my knowledge, at least), there are no more spells costing XP.
    Well now I feel silly. Just when I thought I knew this system.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Question: The theme is beyond with strong hinting of a "beyond the stars" eldritch/space/Great Big feel. I know that the general rule is "make a subclass but if folks feel it doesn't fit the theme, you won't win even if you aren't DQd", but I want to see how people feel before making the effort of a full subclass: I sort of want to make a subclass that goes "beyond" its limits to do stuff. I'm thinking maybe a Barbarian subclass that sacrifices HD in order to get boosts, going Beyond the limits of its own body, or somesuch. Do you guys feel that's in-line with the theme to not get soft-DQd, or should I stick to spacey stuff? Cause I can do Cosmic too; this is just my first impression.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Personally, I don't think that's a great fit unless you fluff it as being alien-y. The full theme is "it came from beyond" and I think the first three words are just as important as the last one. Which kind of limits you to 'beyond the stars' or 'beyond the grave'. I've tried 'beyond the looking glass' but I thought even that might be tenuous.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WarrentheHero View Post
    Question: The theme is beyond with strong hinting of a "beyond the stars" eldritch/space/Great Big feel. I know that the general rule is "make a subclass but if folks feel it doesn't fit the theme, you won't win even if you aren't DQd", but I want to see how people feel before making the effort of a full subclass: I sort of want to make a subclass that goes "beyond" its limits to do stuff. I'm thinking maybe a Barbarian subclass that sacrifices HD in order to get boosts, going Beyond the limits of its own body, or somesuch. Do you guys feel that's in-line with the theme to not get soft-DQd, or should I stick to spacey stuff? Cause I can do Cosmic too; this is just my first impression.
    I don't think it has to be "cosmic" necessarily, but there has to be some sort of interplanar / location aspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Personally, I don't think that's a great fit unless you fluff it as being alien-y. The full theme is "it came from beyond" and I think the first three words are just as important as the last one. Which kind of limits you to 'beyond the stars' or 'beyond the grave'. I've tried 'beyond the looking glass' but I thought even that might be tenuous.
    I thought yours worked well in terms of fitting the concept. If I don't vote for yours it has nothing to do with that. ;)
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    My Submission, the Druid Circle of the Far Stars, is up in the main thread. It's a Druid subclass that alters its Wild Shape into abberant forms, such as growing tentacles, gaining eyes, or using psionic blasts. It has been brought to my attention that there is a Druid subclass on Middle Finger of Vecna that has some conceptual similarities, but I didn't even know about that when I started working on this.

    The Circle of the Far Stars is underpowered compared to the Circle of the Moon, but then again, what isn't? That said, it's 14th-level ability is stronger than the equivalent Circle of the Land ability, so I think it strikes a sort of middle ground. One note a friend put in is to buff the 2nd-level CR of wild shapes to 1 to better follow the power curve of Moon, and it's something I've thought about but haven't made a final decision on. I don't think I would make it scale as the Moon does, but buffing the early game would help a lot, as the Far Stars is a Wild Shape-dependent subclass.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    A couple of tweaks to the Circle of Far Stars: Maximum CR for wild/weird shaping increased to 1/2, and beginning at 4th level that maximum increases to Druid level divided by 4 (rounded down). also changed the name of the 10th level ability to "Xenomorphic" and added a feature to that same ability that allows you to gain one of the Weird Form Traits, chosen when you finish a long rest.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    *snip*
    I'm only here to post that I'm going to build something that will beat yours, prawn :-p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    I'm only here to post that I'm going to build something that will beat yours, prawn :-p
    Bring it on, punk! My Mirrorkin Sorcerer is bringing home the grand prize, and there's nothing you can do to stop me! MUAHAHAHAHA!!
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Does anyone have any thoughts on the VMC warlock, incidentally?

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the VMC warlock, incidentally?
    I liked this idea the first time you had it. It doesn't seem better or worse than your last entry, and doesn't seem to fit the theme any better (it implies that all warlocks are already connected to beyondness, which I feel is less justified than all rogues being technologically inclined). I believe it will perform more or less the same as your last entry, which may or may not be acceptable. For my own part, even a single vote for my entry would be encouraging, considering my lack of experience with 5e, but you may be holding yourself to higher standards.
    Last edited by sengmeng; 2018-07-22 at 01:10 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    it implies that all warlocks are already connected to beyondness
    I mean, yes? That's literally the core defining theme of the warlock!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the VMC warlock, incidentally?
    First thing I'd say is that the Paladin Channel Divinity is far too powerful. It easily beats every other Paladin Channel Divinity imo, but it's also better than some of their 20th-level capstones. The ability increases are waaaay too good (and also sort of distant from 5e's design style), and on top of that they gain a bonus to AC, speed, and their attacks/round becomes insane, especially at higher levels. The damage doesn't scale with level, but of course the attacks do, and consider that each attack on a creature's turn can be used to make a grapple or shove, it's way, way above the power curve for nearly any class at nearly any level. Consider the Vengeance Paladin's Channel Divinity: As an action, they get advantage on attacks against one creature. Or the Devotion Paladin, which gets their Charisma to attack and damage rolls. Usually a Paladin's Charisma, especially at level 3, is +2. So the Devotion Paladin gets +2 to attack and damage. Yours gets +2 to attack and damage (Str boost), +1 to every other physical stat, 10% harder to hit, 33% faster, and 1-6 more attacks/round.

    That's a huge discrepancy. I'm not too sure what can be done to bring this feature back in line, but personally I'd scrap it and start over; it can be really hard to trim down pieces you like of an ability you like, so for me I usually cut a feature entirely and start over. The tentacles might be good on their own, but combined with everything else it's unreasonably strong, I think.

    I would also say that I don't think the Invocations really need to be 3 levels higher. Invocations are the main reason people take Warlock levels anyway (from a minmax perspective at least), and since they don't get their second one until like level 10 (except for Cleric), I don't think it needs further level-gating.

    Finally, I would say that Druids should get the Elder Magic feature.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the VMC warlock, incidentally?
    It doesn't interest me, so I've elected not to comment. I also don't think it fits very well with the contests, though I'll grant you had reasonable applications of both the Rogue on the previous one and Warlock here.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I mean, yes? That's literally the core defining theme of the warlock!
    Meh, just being connected to another plane, while literally otherworldly, doesn't strike me as bizarre or indefinable like the theme seems to me if it's just infernal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the VMC warlock, incidentally?
    In short? I'd DQ it, were I in charge. It's a variant multiclass, not a subclass. The Lawful Neutral response is to not count it at all, and to not vote for it, regardless of its quality. I can tell you that I've intentionally skipped over reading it for that exact reason.
    I wouldn't have even brought it up, except for that you asked.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    In short? I'd DQ it, were I in charge. It's a variant multiclass, not a subclass. The Lawful Neutral response is to not count it at all, and to not vote for it, regardless of its quality. I can tell you that I've intentionally skipped over reading it for that exact reason.
    I wouldn't have even brought it up, except for that you asked.
    It is a subclass, though - it's just a subclass that can be taken by any PHB class that isn't called "Warlock" so long as you don't have any warlock levels. Pedantry about a just-for-fun internet contest would be odd enough on its own, but it's not even accurate pedantry.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    It is a subclass, though - it's just a subclass that can be taken by any PHB class that isn't called "Warlock" so long as you don't have any warlock levels. Pedantry about a just-for-fun internet contest would be odd enough on its own, but it's not even accurate pedantry.
    It's slightly different rules for multiclassing. If my Monk (Way of Shadows) 6 takes a level of Fighter, they're not a Monk (Way of Shadows) (Fighter) 7, They're a Monk (Way of Shadows) 6/Fighter 1.
    I fully intend on reading the VMC Warlock you have up after the contest runs, but it's not a subclass, so, again, I'd disqualify it if I were in charge. I'm not, so my opinion isn't really valid, there. Again: I would not have brought this up had you not specifically asked for people's thoughts. Take or ignore my thoughts as you will. They've been given, as requested.


    Okay. I went back and made sure to read it throughly, just to give you a fair shake, because, who knows? I might have been way off and not giving you a chance just based on the name! That would be silly of me.
    I still don't like it. It's far too much book-keeping and essentially ports over Fourth Edition's rules on multiclassing, allowing you to multiclass instead of subclass and...
    I get it. I get why you might want to do this. I just don't feel like it fits with the point of subclassing. It feels like this for for when you want to have your multiclassing cake and eat your delicious level 20 capstone ability cake, too.
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2018-07-23 at 02:10 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    It's slightly different rules for multiclassing. If my Monk (Way of Shadows) 6 takes a level of Fighter, they're not a Monk (Way of Shadows) (Fighter) 7, They're a Monk (Way of Shadows) 6/Fighter 1.
    I don't see how this is a point in your favour. A Monk (VMC warlock) 7 is different from a Monk (Way of Shadows) 6/Warlock 1, because subclasses are different things from base classes. VMC warlock does all of the things that subclasses do, and basically none of the things that regular multiclassing does (with the exception of "Give you new class features" and other things that are done both by regular subclasses and regular multiclassing). It's a subclass in every sense of the word - in fact, it makes more sense to call it not real multiclassing than not a real subclass.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Hi, went back and read the class in-depth and edited my post! You hadn't posted this reply at that time, so it went into ye aulde edit instead of double-post!

    Copy-pasting it under the spoiler to preserve the flow of the thread:
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    Okay. I went back and made sure to read it throughly, just to give you a fair shake, because, who knows? I might have been way off and not giving you a chance just based on the name! That would be silly of me.
    I still don't like it. It's far too much book-keeping and essentially ports over Fourth Edition's rules on multiclassing, allowing you to multiclass instead of subclass and...
    I get it. I get why you might want to do this. I just don't feel like it fits with the point of subclassing. It feels like this for for when you want to have your multiclassing cake and eat your delicious level 20 capstone ability cake, too.
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2018-07-23 at 02:09 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I've started work on the Silence domain, because in space...no one can hear you scream.

    Post incoming in one to two days.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    It is a subclass, though - it's just a subclass that can be taken by any PHB class that isn't called "Warlock" so long as you don't have any warlock levels. Pedantry about a just-for-fun internet contest would be odd enough on its own, but it's not even accurate pedantry.
    Personally, I'll "disqualify" it because you're not creating anything new, but I'm also not in charge. I wouldn't say it's against the specific letter of the contest, but it doesn't do what I'd expect an entry into a contest like this to do.

    Edit: It just hit me something else that's bothering me about that: the Variant MultiClass submissions aren't really a single class option submission--they're 11 of them.
    Last edited by Ivellius; 2018-07-24 at 05:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivellius View Post
    it doesn't do what I'd expect an entry into a contest like this to do.
    I feel the same way. My main reaction is basically "just write a normal subclass like everyone else!"

    Also I don't particularly like the idea on a philosophical level - giving the same feature to different classes at certain levels cuts against the expectations for each class. I think most of us adhere to certain conventions when we design subclasses, like Cleric 8 should be either Divine Strike or Potent Cantrip, Rogue 9 and 13 are usually low power/non-combat features, Ranger 11 should be a straight DPR boost, Warlock 10 should be a solid defensive boost, Bard 3 gives you an alternative use for Bardic Inspiration, Paladin 7 is usually a passive aura etc. And just overall, the power added by a ranger archetype is significantly more than an arcane tradition, since the wizard base is a lot more powerful than the ranger base. Your system loses all of that, for no particular benefit.

    Plus it seems over-complicated. When you entered the VMC rogue, I thought you were going for 'it's technical' in an entirely meta sense!
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Does anyone have feedback for Circle of the Far Stars? We're hitting crunch time and if people don't like it I want to make appropriate edits.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Similarly, I'm not a fan of my Barbarian's level 14 ability, but I'm not entirely sure how to fix it.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WarrentheHero View Post
    Does anyone have feedback for Circle of the Far Stars? We're hitting crunch time and if people don't like it I want to make appropriate edits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    Similarly, I'm not a fan of my Barbarian's level 14 ability, but I'm not entirely sure how to fix it.
    I feel the same. I'd like to know if anyone has any thoughts, even if it's "that's kind of boring."

    I'd help you guys out myself, but I don't really know enough.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WarrentheHero View Post
    Does anyone have feedback for Circle of the Far Stars? We're hitting crunch time and if people don't like it I want to make appropriate edits.
    The flavor is great, but I worry that mechanically it's just kind of... boring. Moon Druids are better shapeshifters, and Shepherd Druids are probably better summoners (+2 HD and magic weapons for each summon feels better to me than a buff to a single conjured creature, since in my experience conjuring a bunch of small things is better than one or few big things).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    Similarly, I'm not a fan of my Barbarian's level 14 ability, but I'm not entirely sure how to fix it.
    I feel like emitting energy sort of goes against the black hole theme. A couple of ideas:

    "Event Horizon: Creatures within 30 feet of you can't willingly move further away from you without succeeding on a Strength saving throw. Any creature that does move away from you moves only half the normal distance they would travel. When a creature other than you is targeted by a ranged attack, you can use a reaction to cause the attack to target you instead. You gain resistance to that attack's damage."

    "Spaghettify: When a creature fails its saving throw against your Personal Gravity feature, it takes force damage equal to the number of feet it was pulled."

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I feel the same. I'd like to know if anyone has any thoughts, even if it's "that's kind of boring."

    I'd help you guys out myself, but I don't really know enough.
    My main complaint with the Xenomancer is that it feels very finicky and very not-5e. 5e's design goals tend to include streamlining and simplifying whenever possible, so including power points that can be spent to upcast but also can be converted to "virtual gold" that can be spent on components for multiple spells and so on feels too technical to be printed in a 5e book.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Well it's a little rough around the edges, but I have the Clerical Silence Domain up. I didn't expect to be fighting a deadline I myself had set, but it took a while for me to figure out what to make.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WarrentheHero View Post
    Does anyone have feedback for Circle of the Far Stars? We're hitting crunch time and if people don't like it I want to make appropriate edits.
    It's fine, I guess. It's what I would expect a Druid circle under this theme to look like. I think Outer Influence feels a bit out of place where it is--seems like it would make sense to have it come earlier--and I don't like the Alien Brain feature; off-hand, I can't think of any examples of auto-damage in 5e that are tied to an at-will ability. Stunning is also pretty powerful, even if it's conditional. I like both Corrupted Soil and Twisted Presence (though for the latter I'd probably put in a note that creatures are aware of this ability as they approach).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    Similarly, I'm not a fan of my Barbarian's level 14 ability, but I'm not entirely sure how to fix it.
    gloryblaze has two good suggestions. I would amend Event Horizon to this: "Any creature that does move away from you has its current movement speed reduced by one-half for its turn. Additionally, when a creature other than you is targeted by a ranged attack, you can use a reaction to cause the attack to target you instead. You gain resistance to that attack's damage." I'd also consider dropping the damage resistance part, but I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I feel the same. I'd like to know if anyone has any thoughts, even if it's "that's kind of boring."
    This is probably worse, but I refrained from commenting on yours because...yeah, it is a little boring--at best it feels like a Transmutation variant--but also because it's not written like a 5e class option anyway. Right off the bat, classes are worded in the second person (so "You" gain spells that no longer require verbal or somatic components and so on), using XP for spells is just...not a thing, and in general it's just very non-standard. Let me briefly rewrite Warped Physiology but also note some its weirdness.

    "Supporting an alien brain in one's head necessitates changes in the rest of the body as well. Also beginning at 2nd level, your strange magic temporarily transforms you. Whenever you cast a spell or use a cantrip, your creature type changes to aberration for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell cast (or 1 round for cantrips). Any sneak attacks or critical hits against you have a 50% chance to fail as the targeted organs may not be there."

    Having changed that, though, there should probably be changes to the duration. Almost everything in 5e is measured in a single round, minute, maybe 10 minutes, or span of hours. The critical hits and sneak attack ignoring is also non-standard; by comparison, adamantine armor just turns a critical hit into a normal hit (like this feature probably should), and picking on rogues would also be unusual.

    Body Sculptor should read like the following: "When you cast a spell of 1st-level or higher, you heal hitpoints equal to the spell's level You may also gain one of the following benefits, which lasts for one round per level of the spell." (Again, the duration is fairly non-standard.) The final part of that feature is unclear, and it probably pushes the feature into "too strong" territory anyway.

    Power points as implemented here are needlessly complicated, and if you wanted to put them into this option I'd almost certainly introduce them at 2nd level and spread out features to use them at each level. Transhumanoid looks a little strong, given that you get about three distinct benefits here (not counting the food thing; that's basically a ribbon). I don't think any one is that good on its own, but overall I think the effect is pretty strong, and it continues to scale past 14th level, which I generally disagree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Well it's a little rough around the edges, but I have the Clerical Silence Domain up. I didn't expect to be fighting a deadline I myself had set, but it took a while for me to figure out what to make.
    I really like your flavor paragraph.

    Domain Spells look okay (Inflict Wounds is pretty eh), and Cloak of Silence and Ray of Frost seem fine. It honestly looks a bit weak at 1st level in one sense: given that you don't get heavy armor, these clerics are probably going to want some Dexterity, and yet you have a feature that means they need to rely on it less. I'd consider adding another cantrip or proficiency or something (minor), though off-hand I couldn't really tell you what.

    I'd like language clarification on Dampening Field that it moves with you. I think it's intended to, but it's not 100% clear. Also, does this require an action? It feels like it should. This is good, though honestly it might even be a little weak. Resistance to thunder damage while inside would make sense and bump it a bit.

    The second line of Adaptation should probably read: "Additionally, you can hold your breath indefinitely, though it requires you to maintain concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)." That does raise the question of what happens if you lose concentration--do you instantly die or just begin suffocating? If you lose this, do you need to breathe again to gain its benefit, or can you just restart the effect on your turn?

    Void Mantle is interesting. It should just read "Additionally, you can treat any Stealth check" as this feature is actually the thing providing it. I think I'd also flesh out the language a bit more on the last benefit: is this intended to include speech? Just movement? Can you "broadcast" sound openly, or do you have to be aware of creatures to permit them to hear you? Is this a magical ability that would turn off in an anti-magic field? There are probably a few other questions that could be asked, but those came to mind.

    Overall, though, I really like this--it's a distinct flavor that goes really well with this theme, occupies a unique niche, and showed some creativity in designing.
    DM's Guild Work

    5e Homebrew: The Circle of Progress, a druid circle about becoming a transformer - Winner of 5e Subclass Contest 1 - "It's Technical"

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