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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Holy cow! I gave the class a buff a while ago to increase its max Wild Shape CR to 1/2, and beginning at 4th level, that increases further to level/4, but I never "updated" it so the link always showed the weaker version! It's supposed to have been stronger almost this whole time! The 10th-level feature also changed; in addition to getting 2 traits, you can gain one non-level-dependent trait in your non-wildshape form. As a note on that: Carapace doesn't function with armor; I just don't have room to put that in there without shifting the last feature onto its own separate page.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryblaze View Post
    The flavor is great, but I worry that mechanically it's just kind of... boring. Moon Druids are better shapeshifters, and Shepherd Druids are probably better summoners (+2 HD and magic weapons for each summon feels better to me than a buff to a single conjured creature, since in my experience conjuring a bunch of small things is better than one or few big things).
    Do you think it would be better if it was something like up to WIS mod creatures get a Trait, and you can choose different traits for each individual? (As opposed to them all required to have the same trait)?

    I know it's sort of middle-of-the-road, but I specifically made it weaker than the Moon Druid, since we all know Moon is the strongest combat Druid. I never try to match, and especially not beat, the strongest subclass or base class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivellius View Post
    It's fine, I guess. It's what I would expect a Druid circle under this theme to look like. I think Outer Influence feels a bit out of place where it is--seems like it would make sense to have it come earlier--and I don't like the Alien Brain feature; off-hand, I can't think of any examples of auto-damage in 5e that are tied to an at-will ability. Stunning is also pretty powerful, even if it's conditional. I like both Corrupted Soil and Twisted Presence (though for the latter I'd probably put in a note that creatures are aware of this ability as they approach)
    Evocation Wizard's 6th level ability does half damage on successful saves vs Cantrips, but that's the only thing I can think of, and not what I patterned it on. My thought is this: It replaces and Action, so you're losing out on damage. A lot of damage once you shift into forms that have Multiattack. So the half-damage is to help you recoup a tiny amount of damage. It's only 2d6- average 7. So on a successful save, you're doing 1-6 damage, average 3.5. Not a lot for level 6. And it doesn't benefit from your Int or Wis and doesn't increase in damage until lategame.
    The bigger issue is the Stun. It is strong, but I think it's not so strong that it disrupts fights, which is the underlying concern. For most midlevel druids, the stun DC is effectively 11 or 12, which is pretty easy, even for Int saves. I could lower it to Incapacitation, but the low damage if the foe doesn't whiff their save is the counterbalance. That said, I could make it so that no matter how many forms you take, you can't Brain Blast more than Wis mod times per day.

    I could add a warning to Twisted Presence, and it would make sense, but I figure that its initial impact is low enough as to not be a problem, and that the DM can always decide it's visible/perceptible. It's not worded in such a way as to definitively be perceptible or imperceptible, so if a DM thinks it's too strong if its imperceptible at first, they can just rule otherwise.
    Last edited by WarrentheHero; 2018-07-28 at 05:21 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryblaze View Post
    "Event Horizon: Creatures within 30 feet of you can't willingly move further away from you without succeeding on a Strength saving throw. Any creature that does move away from you moves only half the normal distance they would travel. When a creature other than you is targeted by a ranged attack, you can use a reaction to cause the attack to target you instead. You gain resistance to that attack's damage."
    You know, back before I posted even the version found here first, I did have Event Horizon as a subclass feature, except I think all it did was force ranged attacks to re-target you. I think the "can't run away" aspect really improves the whole idea. Thank you for that.
    Gave the attacker disadvantage on the attack roll targeting you, instead. Barbarians already get damage resistance while raging, disadvantage is probably stronger, and I feel like it's the best way to reflect being prepared for the attack you pull into you and altering its trajectory.

    Anyway. Path of the Center has been updated.

    Also also:
    I really like the College of Constellations on my first read-through!
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2018-07-28 at 07:44 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivellius View Post
    I really like your flavor paragraph.

    Domain Spells look okay (Inflict Wounds is pretty eh), and Cloak of Silence and Ray of Frost seem fine. It honestly looks a bit weak at 1st level in one sense: given that you don't get heavy armor, these clerics are probably going to want some Dexterity, and yet you have a feature that means they need to rely on it less. I'd consider adding another cantrip or proficiency or something (minor), though off-hand I couldn't really tell you what.

    I'd like language clarification on Dampening Field that it moves with you. I think it's intended to, but it's not 100% clear. Also, does this require an action? It feels like it should. This is good, though honestly it might even be a little weak. Resistance to thunder damage while inside would make sense and bump it a bit.

    The second line of Adaptation should probably read: "Additionally, you can hold your breath indefinitely, though it requires you to maintain concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)." That does raise the question of what happens if you lose concentration--do you instantly die or just begin suffocating? If you lose this, do you need to breathe again to gain its benefit, or can you just restart the effect on your turn?

    Void Mantle is interesting. It should just read "Additionally, you can treat any Stealth check" as this feature is actually the thing providing it. I think I'd also flesh out the language a bit more on the last benefit: is this intended to include speech? Just movement? Can you "broadcast" sound openly, or do you have to be aware of creatures to permit them to hear you? Is this a magical ability that would turn off in an anti-magic field? There are probably a few other questions that could be asked, but those came to mind.

    Overall, though, I really like this--it's a distinct flavor that goes really well with this theme, occupies a unique niche, and showed some creativity in designing.
    Inflict Wounds was just because there aren't a lot of exciting first level options. I'm open to suggestions but it is probably too late since the contest ends tonight.

    Moving the Wisdom to stealth checks to Void Mantle. Cloak of Silence now grants the ability to ignore verbal components (but not somatic or material components) instead.

    Dampening Field wording cleared up. It now halves thunder damage for all creatures (not just the cleric) inside the aura.

    Adaptation clarified some. You must be able to breathe to start using it. When it ends, you treat it as if you had just entered the environment (for example, in water, you would count the number of rounds you can hold your breath starting from when the effect ended).

    Void Mantle now adds Wisdom to Stealth in addition to Dexterity. The minimum Stealth check was lowered to 10.

    Void Mantle's "I don't make noise" effect was complicated enough to go under another ability name, so the Walk in Silence feature is now added to the post. It's just the old "I don't make noise" effect with hopefully clearer wording.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    The voting thread goes live today, right? Man, I'd better start reading through some of these...
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I wish I'd remembered to design Channel Divinity options. Ah well, I have a good excuse.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Formatting the voting thread presently. Will edit this post when I am finished with the link.

    EDIT: Voting thread is up! Also added to the first post here.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...8#post23261558
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2018-07-30 at 03:35 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    New proposal for future contest themes:

    The Pen is Mightier than the Sword - Subclasses specializing in stationery combat

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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Working on fixing the formatting on the whole theme table. For now, the five themes are:

    Hold the Line
    Subsystems Online
    So You Don't Have To
    I Read this in a Book, Once
    It is Written

    EDIT: The Pen is Mightier could be an alternate name for Calling Card in the original post which was a writing theme, but I will add it to the list for now.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2018-07-30 at 03:51 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Misspelling my name in the voting thread shows clear anti-me sentiment there, Mole Mage. =P

    Also: Future Theme Suggestions: Follow Me! (Sublcasses based on Command and Leadership.)
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2018-07-30 at 03:55 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    So You Don't Have To
    All I can think of is this.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    Misspelling my name in the voting thread shows clear anti-me sentiment there, Mole Mage. =P

    Also: Future Theme Suggestions: Follow Me! (Sublcasses based on Command and Leadership.)
    It's corrected! I'll be shocked if you were the only one. I really should just copy-paste your names into the table next time.

    Follow Me! added to the list!

    EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me to learn that whoever originally suggested that theme was basing it on that or another, similar ad (pretty sure like 30% of cleaning products have taglines that are variations of that).

    EDIT EDIT: I also added a table tracking number of submissions by class to the first post. I was thinking that for every 5th contest, instead of a theme, we could use a class requirement for the leasts submitted class, and people can pick any previously played theme. For example, if trends continue, the 5th contest would be ranger submissions, and people could submit a ranger subclass corresponding to a theme of their choice from contest 1-4. Thoughts?
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2018-07-30 at 04:09 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Working on fixing the formatting on the whole theme table. For now, the five themes are:

    Hold the Line
    Subsystems Online
    So You Don't Have To
    I Read this in a Book, Once
    It is Written

    EDIT: The Pen is Mightier could be an alternate name for Calling Card in the original post which was a writing theme, but I will add it to the list for now.
    Actually, the idea of "Calling Card" is, well, Calling Cards. Summoning, in particular, through a medium of writing, so broad as to include mercenary contracts, in addition to the more obvious magical symbols with Conjuration spells attached. The offered Pen is Mightier would be covered by Hold the Line. And, because I'm clarifying my contest proposals, the idea of So You Don't Have To is specifically expending resources in replacement of another party member, or using resources to enhance the similar resource use of others, not a general support idea.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Actually, the idea of "Calling Card" is, well, Calling Cards. Summoning, in particular, through a medium of writing, so broad as to include mercenary contracts, in addition to the more obvious magical symbols with Conjuration spells attached. The offered Pen is Mightier would be covered by Hold the Line. And, because I'm clarifying my contest proposals, the idea of So You Don't Have To is specifically expending resources in replacement of another party member, or using resources to enhance the similar resource use of others, not a general support idea.
    I will fix these in the original thread and the voting descriptions. I shortened them for transport to this thread and must have lost too much.
    And The Pen is Mightier was stationery, not stationary.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2018-07-30 at 07:05 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    And The Pen is Mightier was stationery, not stationary.
    ...That's some next-level punnery.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    If it makes anyone feel better, I'm pretty sure I'll have to do a Ranger for the next contest. :)
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Hey, if I get any Ranger ideas, I'll make them. And I have been reading Ranger recently to try and figure out how to build a subclass for my own homebrew codex.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    No one likes rangers. This is just a fact of life.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I mean, Rangers are okay, I guess, for what they are, which is an odd, off-center mix of Rogue and Fighter specialized for the Wilderness.

    I's just that, halfway through making one, I always look up and realize "This concept works better as a Fighter or a Rogue."
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    I mean, Rangers are okay, I guess, for what they are, which is an odd, off-center mix of Rogue and Fighter specialized for the Wilderness.

    I's just that, halfway through making one, I always look up and realize "This concept works better as a Fighter or a Rogue."
    Well, you get spellcasting, which helps, and I like designing the 11th-level features because it's rare that you get your "expected" damage boost off your class option. (Compare Fighter with Extra Attack [3] and Paladin with Improved Divine Smite, for instance.)
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    So how do people feel about the theme being "least common class so far" every five contests or so instead of a theme theme? With the caveat that you must adhere to a theme that has already happened in the contest? I'm just spitballing ideas for now, we have two whole contests before contest 5, which comes out to ~3 months (4 weeks contest, 2 weeks voting, plus or minus how long it takes me to get the next thread up), but it seemed fun in my head.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    So how do people feel about the theme being "least common class so far" every five contests or so instead of a theme theme? With the caveat that you must adhere to a theme that has already happened in the contest? I'm just spitballing ideas for now, we have two whole contests before contest 5, which comes out to ~3 months (4 weeks contest, 2 weeks voting, plus or minus how long it takes me to get the next thread up), but it seemed fun in my head.
    I like the idea. Could be nice to get me (and possibly many others) out of my comfort zone of never touching the Ranger.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    So you mean, an all-ranger contest once every five? Maybe with an occasional druid-off thrown in?

    It might not be a terrible idea to run one contest like that. I'm not sure about doing it on a schedule though.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    So you mean, an all-ranger contest once every five? Maybe with an occasional druid-off thrown in?

    It might not be a terrible idea to run one contest like that. I'm not sure about doing it on a schedule though.
    I could enforce rotation, so it would be least popular that hasn't already been chosen for this event. We'd cycle through all 12 eventually (on contest...60. 6 years from now, roughly, assuming we keep this going for long enough).
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Some of the fluff is a bit overwrought,
    Hey now! You take your COMPLETELY REASONABLE CRITIQUE and get outta here.
    In my defense, I was playing a lot of Elite: Dangerous at the time, so my brain was super bored.

    Yes, I was on a Sag A* expedition. Why? Is it that obvious?
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Some more Contest ideas:

    Scaling Strangely: Subclasses with abnormal scaling factors, I.E having a Fighter subclass that scales effectiveness of offered abilities based on their armor, or a Warlock who gains bonuses based on how much HP they have. Healing that follows some 4e ideas regarding HD expenditure also applies, especially if combined with hit die increases, possibly at multiple levels.

    Warriors of Old: Subclasses based on previous editions. The name is a bit of a pun on Grognard, which has a conventional definition of old soldiers, but also gets used for Old School players, primarily AD&D. However, this isn't restricted to stuff like replicating the 2e Sha'ir or Dart Fighter shenanigans, but also stuff like replicating 4e versions of classes and particular noteworthy 3.X build types within a class.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oncie View Post
    my opinion here will be really unpopular
    ...
    1st: Mirrorkin Origin Sorcerer by Ninja_Prawn
    Not with me it won't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oncie View Post
    I honestly don't understand why [Void Patron] doesn't have more votes when all the competition looks so bleak
    At a guess: most of the voters are prolific homebrewers themselves, and we're inclined to look at the mechanics first, second and third when evaluating our peers' work. From your other comments, it seems like you're looking to vote for things that capture your imagination, so your priorities are a bit different. As for the Void Patron, I thought it was pretty good. It was one of several that I was considering for my third place vote; that was a very close decision for me.
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    NinjaPrawn, you are my favourite.
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    Ninja you're like the forum's fairy godmother.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkMinty View Post
    This is why you're the best, Ninja Prawn.
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  27. - Top - End - #147
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oncie View Post
    Ok, so I can already tell by the way everyone else voted that my opinion here will be really unpopular, but, I gotta say what I gotta say. I honestly think this contest is really underwhelming compared to the previus one, with many classes either not doing anything interesting or just not interpreting the theme in a very creative fashion.
    I agree with this to a large extent, actually (including when it comes to my own). About half of the submissions were "generic Far Realm" stuff (which seems like it shouldn't be possible, but there you go) rather than trying to find a really unique niche. Partly I suspect that's because there aren't any of those class options to-date and partly it's just the simplest thing to think of. I had been thinking this as soon as the contest closed, though.

    Also,while I liked the Void patron pretty well, I think knowing its inspiration made it feel much less creative to me.

    Also also, Path of the Center keeps growing on me. I'd actually put it at #2 today rather than #3.

    Having said all of that, I would agree that mechanics is so overwhelming as to be basically everything for my priorities. I'd much rather design something boring than something overpowered.
    Last edited by Ivellius; 2018-08-06 at 08:16 PM.
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    5e Homebrew: The Circle of Progress, a druid circle about becoming a transformer - Winner of 5e Subclass Contest 1 - "It's Technical"

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Blackbando's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I'm gonna have to agree with what Oncie said, as well; a lot of the entries were pretty bland, for the most part. i swear i'm not biased just because my patron was picked as an example of being good I could actually probably say a lot of strong things about how I feel about a lot of these subclasses, but frankly I don't think most of what I would say is rather kind (it might still be constructive, though, albeit overly rude), so I'll refrain.

    It's also why I'm having a hard time voting, since I don't really have strong opinions for any of them (except maybe Mirrorkin, I adore that). I'll probably put my vote up tomorrow-ish, though.
    Check out my homebrew blog, Bando's Homebrew!

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    MoleMage's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Five days remain on the voting thread, with Ninja_Prawn's Mirrorkin Sorcerer holding a devastating lead. I guess we all want to go through the looking glass sometimes, even when it's weird and terrifying.

    In the Next Theme votes So You Don't Have To holds a 3 point lead over Hold the Line, with I Read This in a Book, Once a very close third.

    Get your votes in soon before I tally them up on Tuesday next week!
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  30. - Top - End - #150
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ninja_Prawn's Avatar

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Five days remain on the voting thread, with Ninja_Prawn's Mirrorkin Sorcerer holding a devastating lead.
    We're just waiting for the AP to call the race now, eh?

    I'm glad y'all liked this subclass. It was one of those that just came to me in a flash of inspiration, and those tend to be better than the ones I have to put a lot of effort into.
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    Winner of Spellbrew Contest I & Subclass Contest II
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    That is the perfect ending. Thread done, Ninja_Prawn won.
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    We love our ninja prawn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    NinjaPrawn, you are my favourite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir cryosin View Post
    Ninja you're like the forum's fairy godmother.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkMinty View Post
    This is why you're the best, Ninja Prawn.
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