Classless ACFs

[BowStreetRunner]

I've been mulling over allowing Alternative Class Features (ACF) to be acquired based on the class features to be replaced, without regard to actual class. So for instance, Complete Champion offers Rangers the Spiritual Connection ACF in place of Wild Empathy. Totemist is another class that gains Wild Empathy, and with this rule in place would therefore also be able to replace it with Spiritual Connection.

This would not allow a character to take a Racial Substitution Level (RSL) that they otherwise could not take, as those replace an entire class level, even though sometimes the difference is only a single class feature. However, a character taking a RSL might receive a class feature from it that they then would be able to trade using another ACF for something else.

I realize this could result in ACF chains, such as the Unearthed Arcana (UA) Barbarian who trades Rage, greater rage, indomitable will, tireless rage, and mighty rage in order to receive Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger). Then that same barbarian uses the UA Ranger option to give up Combat style, improved combat style, and combat style mastery in order to receive Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), and fast movement (as barbarian). Thus resulting in a Barbarian who gives up the Rage chain of class features plus Indomitable Will in order to effectively receive Favored Enemy (as ranger), Wild Shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), and a second fast movement (as barbarian).

My question to the community is just how big of a can of worms would I potentially be opening by doing this? I've come across the [3.5] Alternative Class Features thread that Curmudgeon ported from Wizards community boards and seen some of the ACF chains in there. Nothing I've seen so far seems unbelievably broken but I know that there are others in the community much better at breaking things than I am. What should I watch out for if I allow this?

[Zaq]

Generally speaking, opening up more options also opens up the potential for more powerful characters, but that isn’t always a bad thing.

This is unlikely to cause too many problems that wouldn’t have been there already. The only one I’d start feeling suspicious of out of the gate is the Druid, since they get class features that aren’t just spells and therefore might be able to engage in T1 shenanigans and feature-chaining shenanigans at the same time, but I can’t think of any immediate examples of what kind of problems they could cause. Like anything else, if used in good faith by a thoughtful player who isn’t trying to break anything, it’s not likely to be THAT bad.

This might make some PrCs and maybe even some feats easier to qualify for. This is, I imagine, something you’d view less as bug and more as feature, but it is something to be aware of. The only time I’d be really worried there is if it theoretically lets you qualify for a “hybrid” PrC without actually taking the elements that are supposedly being mixed, though even that might not be so bad when handled case-by-case. I don't have any actual examples of this sort of thing happening, so it might be an entirely moot point, but it’s something I’d keep an eye on.

tl;dr This is probably fine as long as you pay attention to what your players are trying to do and you don’t play with jerks who intentionally try to break the game.

[Troacctid]

I think more problematic than power level is the added complexity. A single feature substitution might involve diving through multiple different books and magazines to chain ACFs in order to get the one you want. It's also difficult to catch potential power points because of how many different combinations there are.

I wouldn't touch this without a list of every possible substitution and combination of substitutions. It shouldn't be a scavenger hunt. If such a resource is available, then I guess it's fine.

[BowStreetRunner]

I think more problematic than power level is the added complexity. A single feature substitution might involve diving through multiple different books and magazines to chain ACFs in order to get the one you want. It's also difficult to catch potential power points because of how many different combinations there are.

I wouldn't touch this without a list of every possible substitution and combination of substitutions. It shouldn't be a scavenger hunt. If such a resource is available, then I guess it's fine.

I'm not forcing players to use it. They are perfectly free to just take the class features they normally get or just use the ACFs that are published as-is. If a player wants to go through a complex combination of ACFs in a chain then that's a personal choice and all I would require is that they be able to show what they did so I can okay it.

[Troacctid]

Something like this would be pretty much what I'd be looking for, for the record.

[Venger]

This is a good idea. Let us know how it works out in your game.

[Nifft]

This sounds good, as some ACFs are solid upgrades for low-tier classes, and raising up more low-tier classes would be a good thing.

[Venger]

This sounds good, as some ACFs are solid upgrades for low-tier classes, and raising up more low-tier classes would be a good thing.

Plus it fills in gaps that exist in the system as-is, like not letting spellthieves or psionic rogues take penetrating strike

[heavyfuel]

I've always let ACFs apply to every class that has a specific Class Feature.

It's yet to come close to to breaking anything. Go for it.