5e Monk Guide - Be Like Water (Updated for MToF)

[Foxhound438]

EDIT: I also wanted to add this part in, because I’m curious to see others thoughts on it. The 4E Monk is a Half Caster Monk, not a 1/3rd Caster like an EK or AT. And due it’s short rest nature, I can’t help but draw comps to the Warlock in that respect. In a lot of respects, I do see this as a Half Caster Warlock. Oddly enough they don’t get 3rd Level spells at 9, they have to wait until lv11 due to the Monk Archetype design (that’s not 4E’s fault), but when you essentially get two spell slots (Ki cost), I can’t help but draw that comp. Anyone else feel that way?

eh, it's more like... a 3/7th caster? I do generally agree with the comparison, though, albeit your two spell slots are at the cost of a ton of basic monk utility...

[jaappleton]

eh, it's more like... a 3/7th caster? I do generally agree with the comparison, though, albeit your two spell slots are at the cost of a ton of basic monk utility...

Pound for pound, I do think the base Monk class gets more than anybody.

I do wish 4E got more than just “pick a spell” as an Archetype feature, but the plain Vanilla Monk gets a LOT. Now, the usefulness of that varies (Tongue of the Sun and Moon VS Proficiency in All Saves, for example) a bit, but they do get an absolute ton.

[Sahe]

Another thing I don't like about 4e is that you don't have to provide material components, but still Verbal which invokes in me the trope of calling out your attacks as you do them which is absolutely stupid.

[Foxhound438]

Pound for pound, I do think the base Monk class gets more than anybody.

I do wish 4E got more than just “pick a spell” as an Archetype feature, but the plain Vanilla Monk gets a LOT. Now, the usefulness of that varies (Tongue of the Sun and Moon VS Proficiency in All Saves, for example) a bit, but they do get an absolute ton.

oh, absolutely. Especially early where you're getting 2 features every level, all the way out to level 7

[jaappleton]

Another thing I don't like about 4e is that you don't have to provide material components, but still Verbal which invokes in me the trope of calling out your attacks as you do them which is absolutely stupid.

How will people know I’m using Kamehameha if I don’t scream out “Kamehameha”?!

[Theodoxus]

Anyone homebrew more 4E spells? Just curious what might be out there...

[jaappleton]

Anyone homebrew more 4E spells? Just curious what might be out there...

There's a few crowdsourced fixes for 4E, which have received high praise.

I think adding a number of Ki equal to half your proficiency mod, rounded down, is a great solution to put a band-aid on it without having to redesign everything.

I also like the idea of a homebrew item, very similar to the Warlock's "Rod of the Pact Keeper", where you can regain Ki equal to your Wisdom modifier once per long rest as an action.

[Theodoxus]

I've made / stole a number of things that fix Ki in general - but I've yet to see anything like adding new spell-like abilities (like Aganazzar's, etc). Not that it'd be hard, but if others have done the work, I'd be very interested in it...

[jaappleton]

I've made / stole a number of things that fix Ki in general - but I've yet to see anything like adding new spell-like abilities (like Aganazzar's, etc). Not that it'd be hard, but if others have done the work, I'd be very interested in it...

I think its fairly simple to work out the Ki cost of a spell based on the existing 4E ones. Now, what spells do you let them have? I'd leave that to the player and DM to work out based on the character concept the player is looking for.

On the subject of 'elemental themed Monks', I did have a concept awhile ago of using Cleric Domains on the Monk class. Using the Ki cost baseline of 4E, giving them access to the bonus Domain spells as they level (but as Half Caster rate), giving them their Channel Divinity at lv6, letting them alter the damage type of their unarmed strikes to match their Domain as appropriate...

[ProseBeforeHos]

Anyone homebrew more 4E spells? Just curious what might be out there...

This doesn't contain new spells, but it is perhaps the best homebrew 4e I have yet to see. Maybe a little overpowered? I suggesting trying it but allows the DM to tone it down as required.

[ProseBeforeHos]

Edit 13/06, fixed some typos and bumping for visibility.

[Maxilian]

I did bump Lizardmen up the rating mostly for the stats. I really disagree that they are as good as a hill dwarf though. The higher unarmed dice is only relevant 1-4, I'd much rather have bonus hp and poison resistance.

Someone else already pointed out the extra skills that the Lizardfolk give, but also have in mind that it gives you a realiable way to get thrown items (Darts that scale with your monk weapons), also the damage boost is only relevant till lvl 4, unless you´re a class that's MC into monk (for, at most, 4 lvls -evading lvl 5 maybe because you already are a martial class -Like Barbarian/Monk) then you get a pretty nice damage boost with your race option.

Note: Rogue, even though lvl 2 Rogue make you fight for your bonus action, it also saves you ki points (as you may be using step of the wind a lot to evade staying in melee range, even more at high lvls, so its a good way to save your resources) and give you some exta options (like the hide ability)

Note2: Moon Druid MC is actually quite good for a mostly full monk, as you could use all your abilities in animal form, so with just 2 lvls in Moon Druid, you get an ability that basically is: Get 20+ extra HP, let you be more versatile (as you take the physical stats of the creature, so if you´re a DEX based Monk, you could easily become a STR based one with a simple Wildshape, or viceversa), giving the Moon Druid a lot of good combos with some monk subclass, like for example, death Monk 11 + 2 druid, let you use 1 ki point everytime you fall to 0 HP, letting you use it while wildshaped, making this the only way in the game to trully completely negate damage taken (Well i guess you could count resistances, inmunity and the Heavy Armor feat)

Note3: In come in defend of Sun Soul (not to change rating or anything just to point out some things), Sun Soul is great for hit and run monks, mainly cause the extra range means that you don´t need to get into melee range of an enemy and make the need of bonus action disengage less useful (and when you are in melee range, is most likely to stun someone), the biggest downside is that you don't have a bonus action attack unless you spend ki points.

Note4: For Shadow Monk, i don´t get why the Opportunist ability is pointed out as if "it doesn't synergize particularly well with our playstyle (shadow monks will usually be blitzing the back lines)", i mean for a hit and run character, is pretty good to have something to do with your reaction, as you will rarely use your reaction for Opportunity Attack (excluding those combats where you really wish to stay on top of that caster)

[ProseBeforeHos]

Some more edits and another shameless bump.

Been looking at what people say about lizardfolk and I think they might be right. Dropped the rating of hill dwarf down to Black, same as Lizardfolk, which will be the catch all rating for 'ok' race options in this guide.

[KorvinStarmast]

Lucky: Fantastic feat. Really solid option for variant human monks if your DM allows it (which they probably won't).

Why did you write this? I don't understand this negative vibe on feats and DM's. Granted, some tables don't use feats, but why do you predict that DM's won't allow a given feat?

Beyond that, I enjoy this guide and think you did a good job.
Your point on the strength/grappler monk is a good one; sad to see that it's somewhat hidden by the spoiler usage format we use for guides.

[ProseBeforeHos]

[QUOTE=KorvinStarmast;23162570]Why did you write this? I don't understand this negative vibe on feats and DM's. Granted, some tables don't use feats, but why do you predict that DM's won't allow a given feat?

Mostly experience. It seems to be the 'most banned' feat in the various games and groups I have come across.

I actually don't think it's broken to the point of requiring banning in my own games, but I understand why some GM's do so.

Beyond that, I enjoy this guide and think you did a good job.
Your point on the strength/grappler monk is a good one; sad to see that it's somewhat hidden by the spoiler usage format we use for guides.

Thankyou

[KorvinStarmast]

Mostly experience. It seems to be the 'most banned' feat in the various games and groups I have come across. I actually don't think it's broken to the point of requiring banning in my own games, but I understand why some GM's do so.

I would recommend removing that as I think it poisons the well, but that's your call. It stood out to me as being jarring and negative in tone, as compared to the rest of the guide.

My two cents.

[ProseBeforeHos]

I would recommend removing that as I think it poisons the well, but that's your call. It stood out to me as being jarring and negative in tone, as compared to the rest of the guide.

My two cents.

I actually did do that already after reading your comment the first time lol.

Reached basically the same conclusion you did

[BladeWing81]

Multi-classing as a Monk

How to multi-class well?
The monk is a somewhat front loaded class, with arguably it's strongest "span" of levels coming between 1-8 (extra attack and stunning fist at level 5, evasion at level 7 and it's second ASI at level 8). Despite that, there's still good reason to want to continue sinking levels into the monk class, with purity of body coming in at level 10, and diamond soul at level 14 (as well as accumulating more ki points, on this note I would not suggest that four elements monks multiclass at all).

For this reason multi-classing the monk quite painful, delaying some of your best class options by several levels and is best done at critical level "junctions" which are:

• The early dip (lvl 1 or 2): Usually reserved for those monks who want to grab a level of rogue or UA ranger early on in their progression.
• Post 2nd attack (lvl 6): This allows you to hit extra attack and stunning fist at the normal level, but delays evasion and high level abilities. Good for grapple monks who wish to dip into barbarian, or those monks who wish to dip into fighter for action surge.
• Post 2nd ASI (lvl 9): This gets you the core of what makes a monk powerful, and 8 ki points to use for your abilities. Monks who want to play true duel class characters should abandon monk progression here.
• Ignore the capstone? (lvl 19): Perfect soul is hardly needed for a high level monk to keep their ki points up.

All this said the monk "base" class is perfectly strong on it's own and no monk build, except perhaps the grappler, needs to be multi-classed in order to be effective.

Class Breakdown

Sorcerer: Just no.

Warlock: Some people make a big deal about the synergy between the devil sight invocation and the shadow monks ability to summon magical darkness. I personally think this is a overrated, but if you time it correctly (monk 1-8, warlock 9-10) it's not the worst thing. Grabbing the invocation that allows you to cast false life at will is also nice to get if you're not playing a long death monk.

I actually would contend that the Sorcerer thanks to the Divine Soul subclass the Monk has for the first time access to Shield of Faith, Shield, Fireball, Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Enlarge and haste. This alone makes the Monk/Sorcerer multiclass a very viable one IMHO.
Also The warlock/Sun soul Monk Make a great Combo using Hex and radiant sun bolts. believe me they´re both worth it

[ProseBeforeHos]

Few more edits, and a thread bump.

[KorvinStarmast]

Few more edits, and a thread bump.

A few proofreading notes for you ... suggested edits/revisions.

1. Hit Dice: Spell out the word average, and I threw in the obvious 5+Con mod to illustrate the point. Suggested change reads ...

Hit Dice: D8 is low for a class that is going to spend a lot of time in melee range. I'd recommend taking the average (5+ Con Mod) on level up if your DM allows it, since a monk is going to need a reliable pool of hit points.

2. Armor and Weapon proficiencies: ... (a shortbow is the monk's best bet for combat beyond 20' range). Suggested add on: (Exception: wood elves, and any monk with Bracers of archery, which give proficiency with long bows and short bows.)

3. Martial Arts: missing a word. Suggested change to read:
Martial Arts: This ability opens up a world of offensive options unique to the monk, allowing us to use finesse weapons that are usually not finesse-able ...

4. Prodigy: The best grapple feat! Expertise on athletics is pretty essential if the grappling monk not getting if from a multi-class. Even dex based rogues can get some value out of expertise in stealth or perception. A decent option for variant human monks to grab right at level 1.

Did you mean Even dex based monks?

5. Note: As samuraijaques points out War domain does offer divine favor as a spell. +1d4 damage is pretty isn't bad when you have as many attacks ...

Suggested Change to +1d4 damage isn't bad

That's all of the blue pencil for this morning.

Nice guide.

[ProseBeforeHos]

A few proofreading notes for you ... suggested edits/revisions.

Thanks Korvin, I've used the majority of these. I think the guide is basically 100% finished with these final edits.

[Tanarii]

On Monks and weapons:
Martial Arts applies to any simple melee weapon or shortsword regardless of how it's used. In other words, it applies when you throw a simple melee weapon, making a ranged attack That means thrown Hand Axes, Javelins, Throwing Hammers, and Spears all use Dex to attack and do the Martial Arts die for damage. It also triggers your BA Unarmed Attack, if you're in melee range of an opponent for that attack. It is fairly annoying it doesn't work with Shuriken/Darts though, especially when it works with Daggers.

Also Monks are great with simple weapon magic weapons that other classes might overlook. Depending on your party, a +1 magical simple weapon might be valuable mostly to a Monk, who can use it to get +1 to hit and damage on multiple attacks, all made with Dex and the Martial Arts die.

[Fnissalot]

A few notes on different things.

Kensei's shot improves with additional attacks so it will probably generate more than only 2.5 points of damage.

Deft strikes are payed for after an attack hits, so you will never "waste" your ki for it. See it as a mini ki smite.

Gloom stalker is a pretty decent 3 level dip into ranger. It gives wisdom to initiative, and an extra attack which sort of works with sun soul and kensei. It is one of the few abilities that trigger of radient sun bolts (even if you need another weapon for the extra attack).

Lastly, the close quarters shooter fighting style from unearthed arcana is pretty much the only thing that buffs radient sun bolts.

[MaxWilson]

Shadow Arts: A selection of great spells that come in early (you're a level 3 monk casting level 2 spells i.e. the same as any full caster), aren't too expensive in terms of ki cost (1 ki per spell level is better than both sun soul and four elements), and enhance what you do well. Almost every spell on this list would get a sky blue rating in isolation. You have silence, one of the best spells to shut down mages, darkness, one of the best spells to shut down archers and pass without trace the best stealth enhancing spell. Even darkvision can be useful, as the duration of the spell is long enough (8 hours) that you can easily throw this spell onto all of the people who would benefit from it at the start of the adventuring day and then restore your ki points with a short rest.

One tip related to Shadow Monks: if you take the Alert feat, you can use the Darkness as a pseudo-Blur spell to impose disadvantage on enemies without blindsight/truesight. (Normally, enemies within the Darkness would be able to attack you without net disadvantage, since their disadvantage for not being able to see you is cancelled out by their advantage for you not being able to see them--but if you're Alert, they gain no advantage, so the disadvantage applies.) Likewise, Darkness functions as a pseudo-Mobile feat, since making opportunity attacks requires being able to see the target. The real Mobile feat is probably still worth taking eventually just in case, but I'd recommend taking Alert ASAP for a Shadow Monk. (It's also a good idea for Eldritch Knights, especially since Darkness is an evocation spell.)

Mastery of Death: Half-orc racial for the cost of a single point of Ki. This is powerful against enemies that hit a few times for a lot of damage, since you can "absorb" all the excess damage they would have done to your team. Just be careful of the instant death rules (PhB 197), hanging around on 1hp carries risks...

Actually, Long Death monks are immune to the Instant Death problem. Unlike half-orcs they have no clause about "when you are reduced to 0 HP but not killed outright." For Long Death monks, being killed outright isn't a concern. In fact, since there is no action or reaction cost, technically a Long Death monk with ki remaining cannot be killed via HP damage even while he is incapacitated, petrified, or unconscious.

Searing Sunburst: An on-demand 2d6 damage radiant fireball is pretty atrocious for a level 11 ability, especially one resisted by a con save. What saves this ability is the fairly cheap KI to damage cost. 3 KI points for a fireball's worth of damage (with a better damage type) is decent even at level 11. There will, even in higher level campaigns, always be situations where you need to blast a lot of weak enemies all at once, and nothing most subclass's get will give you the equivalent of this versatility.

There's a substantial difference between a save-for-half effect like Fireball and a save-for-none effect like Searing Sunburst. If you Fireball 20 hobgoblins, they're toast as long as you roll decent damage. If you Searing Sunburst 20 hobgoblins, about 5 of them are likely to survive undamaged, and hit you right back for lots of damage. That justifies the extra ki point cost of Fireball.

Tipsy Sway: Fantastic flavor for this class, but in practice not all that good. Probably the best ability is getting off of the floor for 5ft. of movement, keeping you ultra mobile even when knocked [down]. Ironically the power of Drunken Technique makes Tipsy Sway less effective. Ideally you should be spending your KI to position yourself in places where you can't be hit. Rarely will the stars align to set up "deflected attack" of one enemy onto another.

Note that lying prone is also an effective way of avoiding ranged attacks (ranged attacks against a prone target are at disadvantage). Since you're already planning on positioning yourself where melee attackers cannot reach you next round, that leaves ranged attacks as the primary threat, and being able to leap to your feet with only 5 feet of movement is useful there.

Disadvantage to ranged attackers + Deflect Missiles = nearly immune to ranged weapon attacks.

[Finback]

I just want to note a couple of things:

1. Really good guide!
2. If you ever consider adding the Planeshift races, Kor are *insanely* good for monks - they're the pirate-angel baby of a Wood Elf and a Ghostwise Halfling. +2 Dex, +1 Wis, climb speed equal to ground speed when not in heavy armour, proficiency in Acrobatics out of the gate (and Athletics), advantage on fear saves, AND the Ghostwise Lucky trait.

It's making me rethink my planned kor ranger.

[Arkhios]

Spelling Police Alert:

the race is
GENASI,
not
GENSAI


Sorry, I couldn't resist because that word gets misspelled too often. I know it's a made up word, but it does matter how you spell it.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Spelling Police Alert:

the race is
GENASI,
not
GENSAI


Sorry, I couldn't resist because that word gets misspelled too often. I know it's a made up word, but it does matter how you spell it.

You're doing Pelor's work, son.

[Arkhios]

You're doing Pelor's work, son.

Probably. But it is irritating.

[ProseBeforeHos]

Added Ebberon races (inc. Dragonmarks) and feats. Also fixed the spelling of Genasi *cough*.

[ProseBeforeHos]

One tip related to Shadow Monks: if you take the Alert feat, you can use the Darkness as a pseudo-Blur spell to impose disadvantage on enemies without blindsight/truesight. (Normally, enemies within the Darkness would be able to attack you without net disadvantage, since their disadvantage for not being able to see you is cancelled out by their advantage for you not being able to see them--but if you're Alert, they gain no advantage, so the disadvantage applies.) Likewise, Darkness functions as a pseudo-Mobile feat, since making opportunity attacks requires being able to see the target. The real Mobile feat is probably still worth taking eventually just in case, but I'd recommend taking Alert ASAP for a Shadow Monk. (It's also a good idea for Eldritch Knights, especially since Darkness is an evocation spell.)

I'm not sure this is right. Alert states you can never be surprised, it doesn't say you can't be placed at disadvantage. Certainly alert is a great feat for any monk though.

Actually, Long Death monks are immune to the Instant Death problem. Unlike half-orcs they have no clause about "when you are reduced to 0 HP but not killed outright." For Long Death monks, being killed outright isn't a concern. In fact, since there is no action or reaction cost, technically a Long Death monk with ki remaining cannot be killed via HP damage even while he is incapacitated, petrified, or unconscious.

"When you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can expend 1 ki point (no action required) to have 1 hit point instead."

Good catch, technically instant death is no problem for you. I will edit this.

There's a substantial difference between a save-for-half effect like Fireball and a save-for-none effect like Searing Sunburst. If you Fireball 20 hobgoblins, they're toast as long as you roll decent damage. If you Searing Sunburst 20 hobgoblins, about 5 of them are likely to survive undamaged, and hit you right back for lots of damage. That justifies the extra ki point cost of Fireball.

Many people have made the point that this ability is prob. not worth a blue rating and I think they might be right. Seriously reconsidering my rating on Sun Soul. Does it even deserve a black rating?

Note that lying prone is also an effective way of avoiding ranged attacks (ranged attacks against a prone target are at disadvantage). Since you're already planning on positioning yourself where melee attackers cannot reach you next round, that leaves ranged attacks as the primary threat, and being able to leap to your feet with only 5 feet of movement is useful there.

Disadvantage to ranged attackers + Deflect Missiles = nearly immune to ranged weapon attacks.

All true, but I'm still not sure tipsy sway deserves better than a black rating. As I sate in my guide it's the "kip up" feature that is responsible for me not giving it a red rating anyway.


Thanks for the input though, these were some good observations!