Battlebots 2018

[pendell]

Battlebots is showing a new season. Evidently their old sponsor dropped them but Discovery and Science channel picked 'em up. I'm following them on Science Channel . Evidently you need a cable provider to watch on Discovery, and I cut my cords a long time ago.

The entry that really stood out to me was Tombstone Vs. Minotaur

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That was one of a very few KOs in the first round, and a very decisive one at that. That blade of Tombstone's is just too vicious. Minotaur didn't seem to have an opportunity to really use its own spinner. They seem to be really playing Roy Billings (Tombstone's creator) up as the villain of the tournament this year.

There were a bunch of other bouts of what I thought were lesser interest , though the other one that sticks in my mind was that one which was made to look like a crocodile. I believe it lost in a three-way rumble though.

Still and all, looks like a great season!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Minotaur v Tombstone

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I actually think Minotaur had a real chance of winning. I noticed the weapon wasn't working several seconds before the announcers even questioned it and I thought that'd be the fight, but tombstone's blade got bent. That blade's level for a reason, it loses the lion's share of it's offensive power while angled like that. It still delivered the full knock back force to Tombstone, though. Minotaur coulda won as a simple Ram Bot.

The only reason Minotaur lost and the match didn't go to the judges was cause minotaur got caught on a piece of the stage, that got ripped up by tombstone. On the one hand that's an oddity that got around its normal self-righting methods, on the other hand that rip was made by the force that bent tombstone's saw, so I can't quite call it unfair.

I think overall the match was slightly favoring tombstone before the KO, but nowhere near decisive.

[Traab]

So same old same old? Tombstone is one of those bots thats just plain broken in competition. You would have to literally build a robot that serves no purpose other than to somehow counter tombstone alone to have a reasonable chance at defeating him. I think the only time when he has lost is when something has happened to his spinner (Like it breaking due to tearing 10 other robots apart) or some other inexplicable breakdown. I dont think he has ever been defeated while at the top of his game, has he?

[tomandtish]

Tombstone lost in Season 1 due to self-inflicted harm. He was show-boating in the semi-final against Bronco (which he'd been doing all season), and one of the extra unnecessary hits he engaged in trashed the bot. In the final, he ended up over-heating and his weapon died. He learned from that in Season 2 and there was nowhere near the extra carnage.

As for the season 3 matches, there were a few interesting things....

Spoiler: Blacksmith v Bite Force

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This one never really seemed in doubt. Blacksmith looks impressive, but that hammer has never really done any appreciable damage. The pieces you see flying? Those are pieces of Blacksmith, not Bite Force. And the way their flame comes through the hammer makes it completely useless.

Spoiler: Free Shipping v Mecha Rampage v Duck

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Free Shipping might have had one of those rare cases where their flame actually made a difference. Mecha Rampage’s driver (Christian Carlberg) said on Reddit that a battery fire was why they were on fire at the end of the match. What he doesn’t know is if Free Shipping’s flames caused the battery short that led to the fire.

I’m not sure I like the three-way rumble as part of the actual qualifiers. I’m not sure Duck! could have beaten either bot in a 1-on-1 match. OTOH, they showed excellent strategy by letting them trash each other then moving in for the kill.

Spoiler: Huge v Subzero

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Huge is one of those interesting designs that will fall apart the first time it comes up against a spinner. I love the way the wheels were bending when it was hit. Subzero couldn’t do anything against it because it couldn’t reach any mass sufficient enough to flip. (I also love how they use hi-tech terms to describe plastic).

Spoiler: Bombshell v Lock-Jaw

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Bombshell shows again the need to be able to self-right or drive upside down. While it had a limited upside down drive, it didn’t have a full one. Lock-Jaw flipped it twice into a stuck position, and showed sportsmanship by knocking him back over the first time. It shows that you need to go all or nothing on that upside down bit.

Spoiler: Minotaur v Tombstone

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I have to agree with ES above. This was a solid match. Minotaur’s weapon stopped working first (and well before the judges noticed/commented), but Tombstone actually seemed to take more visible significant damage. If Minotaur had successfully disabled Tombstone’s spinner AND not gotten hung up on the floor, I’m not sure how this would have been called.

Incidentally, scoring has changed from last season. Aggression dropped from 2 points to one point, and damage went from 1 point to 2 points. Yet another thing skewing in favor of spinners.

[tomandtish]

New matches tonight.

Interesting clarification I heard tonight: Kill saws only become active during the last 60 seconds of the fight. Don’t think we’ve heard that before (the actual time frame).

Spoiler: Icewave v. Vanquish:

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Fairly short fight. Vanquish had the tough front for a few hits, but Icewave took out a wheel, then cut Vanquish basically in half. It looked like Icewave might go for further hits, and Vanquish’s driver basically surrendered. It goes to show that lift/wedge bots are at a serious disadvantage.

Spoiler: Rotator v. Petunia:

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Spinner versus a piercing clamp robot. I suspect Petunia is going to be trimmed… But looks like I am wrong. Rotator starts strong and knocks armor off Petunia, then loses their spinners. But Petunia’s weapon does nothing for most of the fight… until they are able to pick up Rotator and drop them on the kill saws. Excellent strategy. This goes to the judges. My prediction is Petunia based on strategy and aggressiveness…. And I’m right. They get the unanimous decision. I suspect Petunia won’t last too long unless it gets lucky again, but they definitely have the strategy down.

Spoiler: Red Devil v. Brutus:

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Have to wonder what happened. Brutus came out aggressive, but started smoking almost immediately. Using the wedge they push Devil around a little, but lose the spinner quickly. Red Devil grabs Brutus and does a little damage, then Brutus stops working. There appeared to be something wrong with Brutus from the beginning, as they started smoking 15 or so seconds in.

This fight does show one of the things that annoy me about the show. Being honest, Red Devil actually did minimal damage (all cosmetic) to Brutus. So can our commentators please stop trying to make it sound like incredible carnage? I know part of their job is to hype things, but it’s really a mood killer when what they say obviously doesn’t match what is happening.

Spoiler: Captain Shrederator v. End Game

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Spinner v. Spinner.... should be interesting. End Game comes out with a huge hit... and never looks back. CS is obviously hurt and isn't moving well. A few more hits and End Game flips CS up on his side at an angle, and gets the count out. I will say that End Game's handling looked rough, and they admitted in the commentary that they were having some problems driving at first. They did talk some smack about going after Tombstone....

Spoiler: Witch Doctor v. Yeti

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Spinner v. Spinner round two. Witch Doctor has ditched Shaman (a good move) and has beefed up the armor. However, when they end up in the screws in the first 30 seconds and lose a tire things look bad…. And it gets worse after a few hits from Yeti. Witch Doctor starts smoking about a minute in, and then dies. Yeti gets the count out in less than 90 seconds.

Witch Doctor is one of those that always seems to end up on the wrong side. Not sure why that is for them, but they’ll now have to wait for another match.

[Marqod]

I've been watching the Discovery broadcast and I must say that the format they use is a lot more efficient for getting to the juicy fights.
There's virtually no wasted time in the 40+ minutes of the broadcast, which I really like.

Quite enjoyed the battles so far, it's good to see that the average level of robot quality in this event is high.
Also really nice to see HUGE do well; I like unconventional designs like that.

Huge is one of those interesting designs that will fall apart the first time it comes up against a spinner. I love the way the wheels were bending when it was hit.

I think that'll depend on the strength of those wheels. The kind of plastic used here bends instead of breaking, actually making it quite difficult for spinners to deal damage.
For good reference of that, see Carbide (the UK's top bar spinner) vs Gabriel (a thwackbot that also has huge polycarb wheels) in Robot Wars series 10.
The potential issue I see with HUGE is that their wheels have spokes a spinner could hook behind instead of a solid disk.

Also an interesting point about Duck: in the slightly different weight class used at the RoboGames event, Duck's roboteer faced Ray Billings, with both using virtually exact copies of Duck and Tombstone for that weight class. Look for Last Rites vs Whoops on YT to see that fight; it's a good one.
Similarly, Free Shipping is a machine made by the guys responsible for Original Sin, a bot generally regarded as the best driven in RoboGames events with a record of 73 wins and 15 losses.
It might end up doing better than you'd expect just looking at it.

I'm kind of sad that a number of the classic competitors weren't there this year (though some had enlisted other people to drive their bots) because they're competing in Chinese events, though.
That's why we don't have Nightmare and Beta this season and why teams like Gigabyte and Shredderator have different leadership.
Then again, King of Bots and This is Fighting Robots (which is a streaming-only season by the same folks who produced KoB) have been good fun so far, too. Some excellent fights in there.
Clash Bots (aka KFC Death Camp) less so.

[tomandtish]

Marqod, I agree with the improvement in the format. I also like that they spend more time (at some point) talking after a match about what went wrong. We saw a few clips in this most recent episode about things that went wrong for robots in the previous week's matches. That's nice info to have.

[pendell]

So I have a take on the fights too...
Icewave vs. Vanquish

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Well that was quick wasn't it? Not since Deadeye Duncan have I seen such a quick
beatdown. Icewave's spinner is omnidirectional, so there doesn't appear to be any safe way to approach it. I suppose Vanquish was intended to be armored
enough to take a hit or two from that rescue saw... but it wasn't. The first hit seemed to put it in trouble, disoriented, and that gave Icewave enough time
to spin up that monster saw and cut him in two.

KO!

Petunia Vs. Rotator

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A crushing bot (rated at 10 tons of force) and a double spinner.

This shows the importance of engineering a combat bot to be tough and reliable; the first lesson is to be able to keep your bot under control at all times.
Rotator did excellent at the very beginning but then both saws shut down , apparently spontaneously. Thus disabled, it was helpless except that Petunia
wasn't able to exhibit the tons of force it was rated for either! The fight degenerated into a shoving match with Petunia, the heavier bot, better able to
control the match and throw Rotator into the hazards repeatedly.

Petunia wins by unanimous judges' decision, but I don't think we'll see him in the finals. Not unless he gets a lot better very fast.

Brutus vs. Red Devil

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A grab+saw versus a wedge + vertical saw.

Another victory for good engineering. Brutus barely started the match when the engine started smoking and the saw became inoperative. It could do
nothing as Red Devil slid up and began applying its own saw -- and apparently causing no damage. It seemed to me that Red Devil did not beat Brutus --
Brutus beat itself.

Did I hear them say Brutus was designed by an MIT graduate? If so, he's going to have to work on hardening it for next time.

Captain Shredderator vs. End Game

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A full body spinner versus a wedge+spinner combo.
Cool shades from End Game at the start.
It looked to me like End Game was handling a little awkwardly. Shredder went into the clutch and didn't do well from the hit. Did End Game finally have enough
armor to survive a spinner? At any rate, Shrederator lost velocity and End Game slowly came up on it, knocked a piece off. Shredder seems disabled in the corner.
End Game, meanwhile, takes its time, carefully lines up, and knocks Shredder on its back. Shrederator has no means of self-righting. KO.

Perhaps End Game's slow speed and awkward movement was simply being careful, not lack of control over the bot? Regardless, a win is a win, and a KO at that!

Oh oh oh. Trash-talking Tombstone at the victory speech? Roy will stuff those words down your throat if you're not careful.

Witch Doctor Vs. Yeti

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I can see why this is the main event and this year's witch doctor looks much tougher and much meaner, ditching their mini vehicle for
more armor. We've got some expert driving and some aggression from both teams as they tear into each other like a pair of hungry junkyard dogs.

Unfortunately, WD just isn't built solidly enough. The two hit each other like knights in a joust, but Witch takes the worst of it and, soon enough,
can't move.

All in all, some good fights! I'm looking forward to the next round now that some of the dead weight has been cleared.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[tomandtish]

New episode tonight. Several... interesting.... bot concepts.

Spoiler: Overhaul v. Sawblaze

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This is a rivalry, since the two drivers used to be partners, but couldn’t agree on the direction to take Overhaul. The green flame on Sawblaze looks cool, but I suspect it won’t do much. But this match is pretty solidly over. Sawblaze pushes Overhaul all over the ring and has control from start to finish. Despite how impressive the sawblade looks though, the damage it inflicted was minimal. It was actually repeated slams into the wall that disabled Overhaul. Overhaul is counted out and Sawblaze advances (and some smack talk at the end).

Spoiler: Whiplash v Hypothermia

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Both come out aggressive, and Hypothermia actually gets a nice initial grapple. However, a few big hits, then Whiplash takes out one of Hypothermia’s tires. That spells the end and shortly Hypothermia stops moving and is counted out.

Spoiler: Four Horseman v Double Jeopardy v Gamma 9

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Double Jeopardy brings projectiles back into the ring, with a cannon shooting a 5 pound slug at 195 mph. Should be interesting to see how it works. Four Horseman is trying the multibot approach with three bots (a wedge and two spinners). And Gamma 9 is a grappler with a piercing point. DJ gets to fire the slug point blank into Gamma 9, and it does absolutely nothing to Gamma 9. Meanwhile the Four Horseman do enough damage to DJ to take them out.

Gamma pushes around the two spinners and takes them out, but the wedge ends up banging around Gamma enough that it is stopped at the end of the match (actually Gamma appears to have taken themselves out). No count-out, but the only bot moving at the end was arguably the weakest in the ring. It goes to judges (my vote is for Gamma). Judges make it a split decision between Horseman and Gamma (of course), but the final goes to… The Four Horseman? That surprised me. I’m guessing that the deciding factor for that last judge was movement at the end.

DJ’s cannon was interesting but ineffective. I wonder if it would have done better if the round was pointed, but I also wonder if that violates the rules?

I'm also still not a fan of the rumble as a tournament seeder

Spoiler: War Hawk v Axe Backwards

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Two different spinner types. They crash together twice, and Axe loses a tire. That pretty much spells the end and Axe backwards is pretty solidly dismantled. It’s the most destructive fight of the night (so far), and Axe never had a chance.

Spoiler: Discussion before the main bout

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Some nice discussion before the final. With the format change everyone is bringing a lot more parts. Some have brought 3d printers so they can be making parts as needed. Some have built two bots that can swap parts. Definitely interesting stuff.

Spoiler: Hypershock v Bite Force

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Interesting spinner match. On paper, Hypershock has the better weapon. But it also looks like it has the more vulnerable design with those large tires. Meanwhile Bite Force has covered up those vulnerable treads with armor. I also think I heard a Hypershock team member say “Did you see that spark” just before it started… Moot point. Two hits and Hypershock is in pieces… literally. More brutal than the last fight. I’m not sure Hypershock is repairable in time for any other matches. But I was wrong about the tires… They seem to have survived….

I did rewind to the beginning of the match when the bots do their little dance prior to the start. A Hypershock teammate definitely says “Did you see that spark?” Not sure how that would have contributed to things, but Hypershock may have had issues before it even started, and there are sparks before the first hit is made. Something to keep an ear out for this week.

[pendell]

Coolness. When I get the chance I'll watch for myself, and confirm your observations!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[tomandtish]

Episode 4 was tonight. The matches follow:

Spoiler: Red Devil v Monsoon

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Red Devil has the saw blade and a plow, while Monsoon uses a bar spinner. There’s some taunting at the beginning as Monsoon comes halfway across the floor before the fight begins. But it initially seems justified, as on the second hit Monsoon’s spinner smashes Devil’s saw blade. A few more hits scatter pieces of Devil around the ring and it appears Monsoon is on the way to an easy victory. Then another solid hit and all of a sudden Monsoon is smoking and the spinner stops working. (Looks like the smoke is only the spinner dying). There’s a lot of pushing after this, but it goes to the judges. I suspect this will go to Monsoon as Red Devil just took way too much damage. Pieces of it are all over the ring. Surprisingly this is a split decision, which sounded like it got a few boos from the crowd. But it goes to… Monsoon, which I thought. I’m honestly surprised it was a split.

Spoiler: Lucky v Skorpios

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Lucky has a heavy flipper (think Bronco) while Skorpios is a vertical saw with a wedge scoop. As a note before the fight starts, the commentators like playing up saw blades, but I haven’t seen them be all that effective. OTOH Lucky apparently only has 20 flips worth of gas power. But after a few bounces, it looks like Lucky took driving damage (I suspect from the pulverizer). He’s basically stuck in the corner. The saw isn’t doing all that much damage (although the sparks look impressive). But I’ll stand corrected as the very first saw hit (upon replay) shows a good hit on a wheel. Skorpios gets the judges’ decision.

Spoiler: Tantrum v Battle Royale with Cheese

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And let me say that’s an interesting name for a bot. Tantrum uses a flipper, while BRC is a spinner (with bacon as the blades…). And yes, everyone noticed the irony of a burger basically fighting a spatula… Wait a minute, you are supposed to not flip the burger until it cooks a bit. BRC is flipped under 10 seconds. They then hit a few times, flip it back over. BRC has never really started moving substantially or spinning at all. Not sure what was wrong… But then there’s a turn and the bot starts spinning…. And then nothing. This is arguably the most disappointing fight I’ve seen this season (and maybe in the series). The only disappointment to me is that we waste the full three minutes on this. Tantrum gets the decision. Again, have to wonder what went wrong from the very beginning for BRC.

Spoiler: End Game v Lock Jaw

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In a way, kind of a repeat (on paper) of Lock-jaw’s first fight. End Game has the better weapon (more powerful spinner), but Lock-Jaw has better maneuverability and probably a better driver. Lock-Jaw started with a bad break, getting stuck in one of the kill-saw slots. This lets End Game get in a hit before Lock-Jaw frees himself. However, a few more hits and Lock-Jaw loses one of those exposed wheels. A few more hits and Lock-Jaw stops moving. Our first count-out of the night and End Game gets the win. End Game is definitely a strong contender for this competition.

Spoiler: Rumble: Gemini v Kraken v Mohawk

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Gemini is a two-bot combo, both apparently using spinners. Kraken uses fangs for piercing. Mohawk uses piercing and flame. Kraken seems to have a design flaw, as he’s gotten stuck twice in the screws by his teeth. Mohawk is pushing the Gemini twins around, grappling one and causing the other to hit the first. However, something happens to Mohawk, as it stops moving… right on the kill saws. Not sure what happened, but suddenly Mohawk and Kraken are out and Gemini win (one of them anyway). Looks like it might have been one hit that didn't look that solid but must have knocked something loose.

Spoiler: Gigabyte v Tombstone

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This could be an interesting match. Back when they were running Megabyte, they apparently beat Tombstone before (this must have been in pre-ABC days). Gigabyte is apparently a bigger, stronger, faster version. We also had commentary from Ray after the Lucky match that he took a LOT of damage from Minotaur in week one, so we’ll have to see how the repairs hold. It’s the first time I haven’t heard Ray sound 100% confident (he’s only about 80%). I suspect this one will go to whomever gets the first solid hit. Let’s see how this goes…. Whelp, that was quick. A few hits and Gigabyte loses the armored dome like popping a top off. The undercarriage is running around the ring for a few seconds, and we expect carnage. Gigabyte’s owners try and tap out and we learn a lesson: You can’t just tap out. So they just stop moving… And Ray lets them just sit there. They get counted out for not moving and Tombstone gets the win. I’ll give Ray credit. He could have absolutely destroyed Gigabyte, since literally EVERYTHING was exposed, but he showed mercy. Tombstone is still the bot to beat.

[pendell]

Spoiler: Gigabyte v Tombstone

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This could be an interesting match. Back when they were running Megabyte, they apparently beat Tombstone before (this must have been in pre-ABC days). Gigabyte is apparently a bigger, stronger, faster version. We also had commentary from Ray after the Lucky match that he took a LOT of damage from Minotaur in week one, so we’ll have to see how the repairs hold. It’s the first time I haven’t heard Ray sound 100% confident (he’s only about 80%). I suspect this one will go to whomever gets the first solid hit. Let’s see how this goes…. Whelp, that was quick. A few hits and Gigabyte loses the armored dome like popping a top off. The undercarriage is running around the ring for a few seconds, and we expect carnage. Gigabyte’s owners try and tap out and we learn a lesson: You can’t just tap out. So they just stop moving… And Ray lets them just sit there. They get counted out for not moving and Tombstone gets the win. I’ll give Ray credit. He could have absolutely destroyed Gigabyte, since literally EVERYTHING was exposed, but he showed mercy. Tombstone is still the bot to beat.

Spoiler

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I don't think that's mercy; that's Ray being pragmatic. The last time he showboated by attacking another bot he damaged tombstone and that cost him in the finals. Ray has a lot of fun, but as a competitor he's coldblooded. You'll never see him right a fallen competitor or continue a match. I think he's learned to exert the minimum force needed to win and, having done so, he'll do absolutely nothing to jeopardize his current win or future chances.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[tomandtish]

Spoiler

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I don't think that's mercy; that's Ray being pragmatic. The last time he showboated by attacking another bot he damaged tombstone and that cost him in the finals. Ray has a lot of fun, but as a competitor he's coldblooded. You'll never see him right a fallen competitor or continue a match. I think he's learned to exert the minimum force needed to win and, having done so, he'll do absolutely nothing to jeopardize his current win or future chances.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

That's certainly true. OTOH....

Spoiler

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if there was ever a bot he could hit and not fear damage, it was that one at that time. It honestly would be the perfect time to test the repairs he'd made in a low-danger situation. If he takes damage hitting THAT? Then he has serious problems anyway. I honestly think in that case there was just no enjoyment for him in destroying something that was already destroyed, so let them rebuild for the future.

[tomandtish]

New matches tonight....

Incidentally, I really wish they'd stop with our ring announcer trying to come up with the commentary about the bots during the introductions. It's painfully bad.

Spoiler: Huge v. Free Shipping

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As I said before, Huge’s advantage will work against certain types. I suspect Free Shipping might be one, since I don’t see the forklift doing much. But there is the flame thrower to consider. The plastic on Huge is so soft that flame might play a part. I think this is the best possible scenario for flame to show if it has worth…

But flame doesn’t do much. There’s a few times where commentators say flame caused the wheels to bend, but they do that on solid hits. It doesn’t look like anything permanent. There is one spoke lose (I see that later in the episode) but it seems due more to a hit than the flame. Meanwhile Huge beats the snot out of Free Shipping. It’s amazing that Free Shipping was still working, but they do get the aggressiveness and strategy points. It goes to the judges and a split decision (which surprised me), but goes to Huge (which doesn’t).

I have to admit Huge is surprising me. It keeps winning even though the design seems inherently flawed to me…. But then I’m not a bot builder. And props to FS, who kept going despite having the crap kicked out of it.

Spoiler: Minotaur v. Hypothermia

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Minotaur did well against Tombstone, but lost. So they are out for revenge. Hypothermia added a clamp and wheels, so swapped in a wedge lift. Definitely a change from last time.

But this is never really in doubt. Minotaur gets damage on the first two solid hits, and pushes Hypothermia around the ring the entire match. Hypothermia is smoking and guts are exposed when it is upside down, but it is still moving. The only question is whether Hypothermia makes it to the end… And it does. It goes to the judges, but there’s no question here. Minotaur dominated in every category. They get the unanimous decision.

Minotaur is a solid bot. Just had the misfortune to go against Tombstone in Round 1, but they are still extremely dangerous. I expect to see them go a fair distance. Hypothermia is an interesting design, but between control issues and the damage they took, I suspect they will be out in their next match.

Spoiler: Blacksmith v. The Four Horseman

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Blacksmith is a design I just don’t like. It seems impractical, doesn’t seem to do much damage, and (IMOH) is ugly. But they keep on and win the occasional match (but apparently never a tournament according to our commentators). Four Horseman (FH) is going with their standard 2 spinners and a wedge. Incidentally, because of the weights, you have to knock out both spinners to win. We’ll see how they do….

There’s some back and forth with nothing solid, until Buttercup runs into one of the spinners and is taken out by friendly fire. A spinner is slammed into the screws and hit a few times, and stops working (I suspect it was the ram into the screws). And with blows Blacksmith forces the last spinner into the wall, and gets the count out.

First time I’ve seen Blacksmith win won that I actually thought they deserved to win…. Still don’t like the bot, but they did well here.

Spoiler: SOW v. Brutus

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SOW (Son of Whyachi) is the horizontal three arm spinner. Brutus is a drum spinner with a lot of armor but (apparently) motor issues. I would normally say Brutus would have the advantage, but not if the commentators are telling us about potential design issues before hand.

But this is over quick. A few hits (and a piece comes off Brutus), then SOW is knocked upside down. SOW can’t self-right and we get a 41 second knockout.

As always, this shows why self-righting or being able to drive upside down is important.

Before the main event, you get...

Spoiler

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A countdown of the top ten hits so far this year. Meh. You also find out that Free Shipping had a lot of internal fire damage after their flame thrower got bent. But note none of it stopped them from moving.

Spoiler: Icewave v. Yeti

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Icewave destroyed a bot in their first match (literally). Yeti also beat Witch Doctor quite handily. This out to be a solid fight, and let’s see which spinner is better. Yeti has added a 15 pound wedge to try and get under Icewave.

But this one is over quickly (and I figured it would be even if I didn’t know how). A few solid hits, and Yeti bounces up, comes down, and stops working. Yeti is counted out.

There’s some grumbling because Icewave hits yeti at the end of the countdown, but on re-watch there’s still counting going. Whether it’s polite or not, it is legal. Commentators are saying it is questionable, but looks legal to me.

Incidentally, they need to leave more room after the last match. Because I record this (have to because of work), I can see how much time is left in the recording. And when there’s that little time left, you know the fight isn’t going the distance. I could tell someone was going down quickly.

[tomandtish]

New matches tonight.....

Spoiler: Sawblaze v. Reality

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Sawblaze is (of course) a sawbot w/ a flame thrower. It also has 3 low wedge “forks” to get under a bot. Reality uses a drum spinner.

Sawblaze will end up pushing Reality all around the ring. There are a few good saw hits, and possibly some damage about half-way through where Reality’s spinner seems to take a long time to get up to speed. Reality gets a hit or two but does minimal damage to the forks. Match goes to the judges (I bet on Sawblaze)…. And that’s the call.

Reality tried hard but just couldn’t get solid hits. This was Sawblaze’s match all the way. Sawblaze goes to 2-0, and Reality goes to 1-1.

Spoiler: Petunia v. Monsoon

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Both are starting at 1-0. Petunia has that piercing arm while Monsoon has what looks like an ugly vertical spinner. Monsoon also does some great taunting with a vase of petunia’s with a “Oh No, not Again” sign on them. (Have to love a Hitchhiker’s joke). Petunia still looks outclassed, but we said that their last match….

But probably not this time? Petunia initially manages to get one grip, but a few solid hits by Monsoon and Petunia is leaking hydrolic fluid and actually on fire. It’s all over for Petunia….

Until Monsoon’s spinner stops working, followed by it stopping completely. But Petunia stops as well. It looks like a double count-out is about to start… until Monsoon manages to start moving (barely) again. Meanwhile Petunia is counted out and is in flames.

We almost saw a double count-out, which I’ve never seen before. This is a classic example of surviving a match and not really winning it. Monsoon gets the win (and 2-0), but it really seems like a lucky fluke given what happened. Meanwhile Petunia goes to 1-1, and we’ll have to see if she can come back at all.

In a comment later in the show, a piece of petunia was actually embedded in Monsoon's spinner.

Spoiler: Captain Shrederator v. Subzero

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Both these bots are 0-1 going into this match. CS is a full body spinner while Subzero is a flipper. CS has also had a major overhaul after the last fight since they were having reliability issues. The shell is different as well. Subzero looks like a more solid bot. The question: Can CS do spinner damage w/o letting Subzero flip him into a corner or the screws. Subzero is also bringing in a fire breathing drone. I suspect that will be negligible.

Subzero starts aggressively, but never gets the flipper into place. CS gets a few hits and pieces go flying. Subzero is flipped a few times (but can self-right). But after one solid hit CS suddenly stops moving (although it is still spinning). CS is counted out (0-2) and Subzero gets the knockout (1-2).

Not sure how I feel about this one. It’s another case of CS losing rather than Subzero winning. And the drone is useless (as predicted).

Spoiler: Warrior Dragon v. Chomp

Show

First fight of the season for both bots (so 0-0). WD is a full-body spinner with a wedge flipper. Also has a wedge drone. Chomp uses that pointed hammer. Chomp is a bot I hate. It seems to always win more because the opponent took themselves out rather than actually inflicting damage. But we’ll see…

A nice touch… Chomp’s team selects a volunteer from the audience to run the pulverizors.

It starts with one hit and a wedge attack that knocks Chomp over. Chomp can self-right, but it is awkward. And Chomp is knocked over again and again. Seems like it should be WD’s match… except it is smoking. The flipper isn’t working (or else they had a great shot to flip Chomp into the screws) and the spinner isn’t either. But Chomp can’t do anything. It spends more time on its side than upright. This goes to the judges (should be WD)… and it’s a split decision? That surprises me. The winner is… WD.

That doesn’t surprise me. I am surprised by the split decision, since WD dominated in aggressiveness, control, and strategy. But this is one of those matches that is a bit more boring than it appears. After the initial hit, all WD really did was push Chomp around.

Spoiler: Bonus Fight - Rumble: Predator v. Valkyrie v. Bale Spear

Show

Predator uses a crushing jaw. Valkyrie uses a horizontal spinner. And Bale Spear uses a punching fist (spear with a fist on it). I suspect the weapon of BS will turn out to be BS. Apparently all three had non-televised matches that they lost? I’m calling them all 0-1 based on that.

Predator doesn’t survive the initial three-way hit and stops working (quick countout). Valkyrie then goes after BS, and proceeds to gradually shred them. First one tire, then 2…3…4. BS finally stops moving and gets counted out.

Props to BS, who kept moving much longer than you would have thought given the damage they took, but this fight never seemed in doubt.

Spoiler: Bronco v. Bombshell

Show

During one of the talk sessions, Bronco's team indicates that it is 20%-30% more powerful than last year. Should be interesting... Bronco is 0-0 (first match of season) and uses that incredibly powerful flipper. Bombshell is 0-1 and uses a vertical spinner. Again, a major issue for Bombshell will be self-righting, esp. given Bronco’s flipper.

Incidentally, I write this up as I’m watching, although I may rewind afterwards to catch something. This match is showing again one flaw in the way they time the fights in the episode. With the time left, it’s obvious that one of these bots is going to be counted out (this won’t go to the judges). The only question is who. I’m putting my money on Bronco to win, given that Bombshell can’t self-right.

After some initial positioning, Bombshell gets a solid hit and Bronco gets some air. But a few seconds later Bronco flips Bombshell and it is upside down. That should be it, but Bronco goes for a few more flips and flips Bombshell into a corner. 1:19 for the fight (only because of the extra flips).

I’ve said it before, and it stands. You HAVE to be able to self-right or work upside down. Bronco basically got 3 extra flips because Bombshell was immobilized. One of them got Bombshell about 12 feet in the air.

[Iruka]

I don't understand why people bother with flamethrowers. They never seem to accomplish anything.

[pendell]

I don't understand why people bother with flamethrowers. They never seem to accomplish anything.

Rule of Cool. I suspect it goes over well with the judges. Style points.

Also, does anyone know where to legally watch this on streaming video? SF channel streamed the first two episodes but they seem to expect you to subscribe to cable to watch the rest, and almost nothing could persuade me to get a cable subscription again. I prefer watching stream even if it comes with ads; ads, after all, are the price of free TV.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[tomandtish]

Rule of Cool. I suspect it goes over well with the judges. Style points.

Also, does anyone know where to legally watch this on streaming video? SF channel streamed the first two episodes but they seem to expect you to subscribe to cable to watch the rest, and almost nothing could persuade me to get a cable subscription again. I prefer watching stream even if it comes with ads; ads, after all, are the price of free TV.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Yes and no. Discovery also leaves the most recent unlocked for a period of time (unsure how long).


You can watch Episodes 5-6 w/o a subscription right now.

[Traab]

My personal view is horizontal spinners > drums > flippers> everything else. Seriously, The horizontal spinners tend to be the most stable and reliable destroyers of all other bots, drums are growing on me as they seem to do a good job of both grinding apart AND flipping bots, and flippers, especially the powerful ones like bronco, may not shred bots, but they cause so much impact damage they take down enemies fairly well, plus the appalling number of bots that cant self right gives easy wins. Everything else is just kinda meh. They might do some good damage, but rarely outright dominate. Grabbers are good for scoring points on controlling the fight, but rarely include any way to reliably hurt the opponent, its like planning your entire strategy around "Go full round, win judges decision" While spinners are set on "DESTROYDESTROYMURDERDEATHKILL!" Wedges tend to be dumb as they rarely do what they are meant to (get under the bot with actual weapons and keep it from hurting you) Everything else is gimmicky. Flamethrowers, drones, mini bots, walkers (dear god walkers) etc.

[joggler45]

Able to watch a couple of episodes before and might catch the new season. Hope to see more interesting stuff this time.

[tomandtish]

My personal view is horizontal spinners > drums > flippers> everything else. Seriously, The horizontal spinners tend to be the most stable and reliable destroyers of all other bots, drums are growing on me as they seem to do a good job of both grinding apart AND flipping bots, and flippers, especially the powerful ones like bronco, may not shred bots, but they cause so much impact damage they take down enemies fairly well, plus the appalling number of bots that cant self right gives easy wins. Everything else is just kinda meh. They might do some good damage, but rarely outright dominate. Grabbers are good for scoring points on controlling the fight, but rarely include any way to reliably hurt the opponent, its like planning your entire strategy around "Go full round, win judges decision" While spinners are set on "DESTROYDESTROYMURDERDEATHKILL!" Wedges tend to be dumb as they rarely do what they are meant to (get under the bot with actual weapons and keep it from hurting you) Everything else is gimmicky. Flamethrowers, drones, mini bots, walkers (dear god walkers) etc.

Walkers .... I'm so grateful we haven't seen Wrecks this season.....

And agree with flamethrowers. There's been one match where a flamethrower MIGHT have made significant impact, and even that is a MIGHT.

And my take is: SOME horizontal spinners > drums > remaining spinners > flippers> everything else. The full body spinners don't seem to be quite as effective as those with a horizontal spinning weapon.

[Traab]

I also left out vertical spinners because, while they often do horrific effective damage, they also tend to have issues with being outmaneuvered. Deadly from the front, slow to turn and vulnerable from behind and the sides. Full body spinners (hail ziggo, praise him with great praise!) are of course awesome, but tend to have even more of a balance issue where if they get a dent in the wrong spot, suddenly they fling themselves all over. But they tend to be powerful because instead of building a body then a weapon, they make their entire build a weapon which allows for greater power and toughness imo. Its like, lets say im a grab bot with a buzzsaw and a drum. That means, due to weight restrictions, that my grabber likely doesnt have the torque to lift a bot, my blade is puny and cant cut anything but mecha tentamushi (God bless that ladybug) and my drum might make sparks but aside from ruining the paint it wont do much else. Meanwhile turning the entire design into a single weapon means it can have the real power where it needs to be, which equals huge tombstone or ziggo levels of destruction. Of course the downside is, if something goes wrong with my one weapon, i got nothing left. At least with my tri bot if the grabber breaks I can still shoot sparks with my drum and pretend my blade isnt stopping on contact and hope for a judges decision.

[tomandtish]

....At least with my tri bot if the grabber breaks I can still shoot sparks with my drum and pretend my blade isnt stopping on contact and hope for a judges decision.

I think that's why saw blade bots are as popular as they are. For the most part they do relatively little damage, but the spark shower LOOKS impressive. You'll hear everyone screaming about Red Devil's blade "Carving into" their opponent, but when it's all over it's usually only superficial scratches.

[tomandtish]

Some catching up here as I've been busy with work:


Week 7:

Spoiler: Lucky v. SOW

Show

The spinner S.O.W. is up against Lucky, with has a ram and a flipper. There’s not much of a matchup here. SOW begins taking Lucky to pieces, and continues to do so. There’s metal all over the ring. Honestly, the most impressive part of this fight is that Lucky lasted as long as it did given the hits it was taking. This fight shows again that the only defenses are to be a great driver, or have incredible armor. Lucky had neither.

Spoiler: Sawblaze v. Mohawk

Show

Mohawk, the robot with a crushing/flaming Mohawk is facing the sawblade/flamethrower of Sawblaze. I’m still not sure ANY of the weapons in this match are particularly good. The sawblade can create a big shower of sparks, but actually seems to do little damage. And Mohawl seems to lack the ability to consistently get a solid grip.

Sawblaze starts aggressive. Their forked wedge is actually very effective at getting under Mohawk. Mohawk is forced into a corner and takes several pulverizer hits. Sawblaze then corners Mohawk and engages the saw. As noted, a ton of sparks but no real damage. Sawblaze is winning the aggrssiveness/control battle however. Mohawk gets knocked on the side and is counted out, but not before Sawblaze engages the saw on the underside…. Again to an impressive spark shower but nothing else.

This match really confirms that the saw seems useless other than LOOKING impressive. (which is probably worth points with the judges). The commentary it gets well out-paces the actual result.

Spoiler: Whiplash v. Mecha Rampage

Show

Mecha Rampage (MR) is an interesting spinner, with a 360 body spinner inside two long arms. Whiplash is a vertical spinner on a moving arm. I’m still not sure about MR simply because it has exposed parts well outside the range of the spinner. The advantage of that type of spinner is that the whole body is a weapon. MR has removed that advantage.

And the start certainly shows it. MR is hit a few times and isn;lt able to get the weapon really up to speed. Whiplash pushes MR into the side and ON it’s side, and MR is counted out.

Whiplash is a solid design. Will be curious to see how it does against some of the bad boys (Bronco, Tombstone, etc.).

Spoiler: Chomp v. Overhaul

Show

Chomp… by the Gods I hate Chomp. It’s a completely impractical design that nevertheless seem to win occasionally It won three in 2016, all as a result of issues with the other bots or extremely poor driving. I’m not sure the weapon has EVER done real damage. Overhaul is a lifter/grappling robot. Definitely designed to use the ring to maximum advantage.

A small bit of sparring and Overhaul knocks Chomp over, and pushes into the screws. Then pushes Chomp around some more. Chomp is again spending more time on its side than upright. At least two of the turnovers are a result of Chomp’s own hammer strikes. Chomp finally lands one blow (and goes over again), and Overhaul continues pushing Chomp around. Overhaul actually gets a grapple on Chomp and carries it to the kill saws. But Overhaul gets stuck somehow for a few seconds, allowing Chomp to get a few blows in (no noticeable damage). Match goes to the judges and Overhaul wins unanimously.

Spoiler: Rumble: Deviled Egg (DE) v. Axe Backwards (AB) v. Basilisk

Show

A drum spinner, an unusual full body spinner (vertical with huge tires), and a flipper walk into an arena…. Basilisk goes immediately after DE, and AB hits basilisk from behind. Two hits and Basilisk isn’t moving. AB and DE go to war, and AB’s spinner is chewing up the armor of DE. Basilisk gets moving again, but the flipper isn’t doing much. AB starts smoking but is still moving (but doesn’t seem to be spinning). DE gets a final hit on Basilisk as we go to the judges.

AB seemed to be the dominant robot in the fight, both in aggressiveness and damage inflicted. And the judges …. Have a split decision between Axe and Deviled…. And Deviled gets the win? That surprises me.

Spoiler: Bite Force v. End Game

Show

Bite Force (BF) has a vertical spinner and is one of the few tracked robots. End Game (EG) has a vertical spinner that is heavier and faster, as well as better armor. But BF has better control and speed. It’s a boxer versus a brawler.

They crash twice and on the second one EG goes flying…. But BF isn’t moving. EG apparently suspects a trap, because it doesn’t move in, and a few seconds later BF starts moving again. They crash again and EG goes flying again… and lands upside down. EG is counted out and BF gets the win.

This shows poor decision making on End Game’s part. EG had a clear path to hit BF when it wasn’t moving, but the hesitation apparently cost them the match. After the match BF did state that they stopped for a minute until they rebooted, so definitely a missed opportunity by EG.

Week 8:

Spoiler: Warrior Dragon (WD) v. Rotator

Show

WD is a flipper/full body spinner while Rotator has two horizontal spinners, and can choose to only spin one at a time. WD also has a flaming flying drone.

But when the match starts WD is easily pushing Rotator around. It looks all WD’s way, until a hit stops their spinner. But they are still pushing Rotator all over. And the drone is taken out when it flies too low.

WD also starts smoking, and is moving very sluggishly when Rotator gets the spinner back. But both are having problems moving. They are moving just enough to stop a count out, and Rotator gets a final hit just before the buzzer.

Both bots ended up with problems, but I suspect the deciding factor is going to be control which should give it to WD… and they do win on a split decision.

Spoiler: Reality v. Duck

Show

Reality is a drum spinner. Duck officially has a beak on the front (5 lbs.), but is primarily a wedge/pushing bot.

Duck’s strategy seems to be to break its face against Reality’s fist. They crash together numerous times. Duck is slowly losing pieces, but still keeps moving even though it lost a tire. But after several hits REALITY stops moving…. And is counted out.

I can only assume something got knocked loose in one of the hit, as Reality was clearly on top for the bulk of the match. Bad luck!

Spoiler: Hypershock v. Battle Royale w/ Cheese (BRC)

Show

Hypershock is a vertical spinner with lifting arms. BRC is a horizontal spinner that looks like a burger, with a “mini-burger” drone that has flame. It also looks incredibly slow…

5 seconds in and Hypershock hits the drone, and pieces are flying. BRC is not spinning fast at all. Hypershock plows into BRC a few times, and it now looks like a McDonald’s burger that’s been tossed in a garbage disposer. The countdown starts quickly, but Hypershock gets a few last second hit. BRC is effectively destroyed. Queue the burger puns…

I’ll note that I’ve never seen BRC’s spinner get up to full speed. Even in the display before the fight starts (when the robots strut), that spinner never gets moving fast. It's just a poor design for fighting.
The team even admits that they have a lot of "bad design choices" that were made for aesthetic reasons.

Spoiler: Witch Doctor (WD) v. Blacksmith

Show

Blacksmith has the hammer that’s another weapon I’m not sure is really any good. It also has a forked wedge. WD has a drum spinner and wedge, but also has been having drive problems. They had to re-wire the entire bot before this fight. I’d say this should be WD’s fight, but they seem to have hideous luck.

As the fight starts, WD seems to have a consistent power issue. Blacksmith is pushing it around the ring pretty easily. They also land a few hits with the hammer but no noticeable damage. WD tries to work around Blacksmith and hit the sides. WD then starts coming on strong, pushing Blacksmith around the ring. The hammer doesn’t seem to be working on Blacksmith anymore, and WD is running rampant. Even missing a tire, WD is dominating. This is WD’s match all the way….

But Blacksmith forces WD up and into the screws! WD can’t move and the countdown starts. It’s all over for…. WTF??!?? How the hell did they get out of the screws?!? There’s a brief collision and the match is over. It goes to the judges and WD gets the unanimous decision.
On re-watching, when WD was caught the screws were headed towards the glass (looking at the top of the screws). They then stopped, and just before the count-out they reversed (I hadn’t noticed that they reversed before). So WD didn’t free itself, the screws freed it. It’s still going to be one of the iconic moments of the series, as EVERYONE assumed WD was out. Even WD’s driver had taken a hand off the controller and was pounding on the screen. Goes to show, don’t ever quit!

Spoiler: Lock-Jaw v. Bronco

Show

A match 19 years in the making (the last time they faced each other). Lock-Jaw (LJ) has a nice vertical spinner, and lifting arms. Bronco packs the most devastating flipper in the game (getting up to 15 feet of air). LJ will have to figure out how to get close and under w/o being flipped, while Bronco is going to have to make sure LJ doesn’t outdrive them…

As the match starts LJ seems to be having issues already. It’s … staggering for lack of a better word. Then starts moving but very poorly. Almost like the right wheels are stuck. But Bronco seems to be having the same issues. At this point almost nothing is happening.

But Bronco finally gets position and flips LJ twice, getting serious air. A little more positioning and LJ is flipped into the screws. It gets free but Bronco is on a stampede, flipping LJ several more times. The match is solidly Bronco’s now. But movement becomes an issue again and Bronco can never really line up the way it wants. This goes to the judges (should be Bronco)….and it is.

The really impressive part of the fight was LJ hanging on for the duration. While both bots had issues, Bronco was able to overcome them. It’s stated that the bots appeared to be having frequency issues, causing problem with handling.

Week 9:

Spoiler: Chomp v. Huge

Show

Chomp has made some modifications, with better self-righting pistons. We’ll see if it matters. Huge still looks like it should fall apart on a solid hit, but is 2-0. They are also using a small mini-bot this fight. Let’s see if that spinner can survive Chomp.

A little positioning and Huge slams into Chomp twice. Chomp can self-right but after another hit Chomp’s hammer is bent out of shape. Chomp starts pushing Huge around the ring, and is going for the flames. Huge retaliates and the hammer is totally destroyed. They push each other around some more and both go the distance.

Both bots have damage. It looks like Huge may have popped a panel when the spinner hit Chomp. But Chomp is barely functional. Should be Huge all the way… and it is. Huge is now 3-0. Impressive for a bot that looks like it would be destroyed by a sneeze.

Spoiler: Brutus v. War Hawk (WH)

Show

Both bots have wedges and vertical spinners. Let’s see which is better.

There’s an initial hit and Brutus is upside down. It can move but not fight in that position, so begins banging into the screws to right. Meanwhile WH took damage in that hit and is moving poorly. As Brutus self-rights their spinner isn’t working.

Brutus pushes WH around a bit, then gets the spinner working. There are two big hits and it appears WH isn’t moving. But Brutus goes for a bit more damage until backing off for the countdown. Brutus wins…. Except we have a replay of season 1 where Brutus goes for a last second hit and may have been after the buzzer. WH had just gotten the spinner working, and Brutus ends up flipped on top of WH. Took an extra shot they didn’t need to.

Spoiler: Captain Shrederator (CS) v. Petuna

Show

Captain Shrederator (CS) v. Petunia Petunia uses a piercing hook while CS is a full body spinner. CS is looking to go 3-0.

They have a clash, and Petunia goes flying. They then have a second big hit and CS stops moving. Petunia grabs CS and puts it under the pulverizer. They may have actually cracked the shell as well, as CS is now smoking. Petunia backs off and CS is counted out (and on fire).

Have to admit, Petunia’s weapon shows it can do damage under the right circumstances.

Spoiler: Yeti v. Bombshell

Show

Bombshell’s vertical spinner versus Yeti’s drum spinner. Should be interesting. Bombshell also moved weapons to a separate controller.

They crash and yeti goes flying. Another hit and Yeti is coming off the worst. After a third hit Yet’s spinner stops working. Bombshell knocks Yeti around, but has lost a wheel. Yeti takes a few more hits, but starts charging in to push Bombshell around…. And it works. Right at the very end Bombshell has visible flame through a hole. It goes to the judges…

I’m not sure how to score this. I had Bombshell ahead right until the end, but open flame makes me wonder. It’s a unanimous decision for… Yeti.

I think that makes sense. Yeti’s strategy was to bash Bombshell into pieces after the spinner stopped, and they were definitely the aggressor. It comes down to damage, and while Yeti had more visible damage Bombshell obviously had the more serious damage at the end.

Spoiler: Skorpios v. Icewave

Show

Skorpios has that huge sawblade. They also added “hockey sticks” to keep Icewave at a distance. But Icewave is a nasty horizontal spinner that has been absolutely destroying bots this season. My money is on Icewave unless something breaks.

Icewave comes out strong with several solid hits. When Skorpios starts pushing Icewave around, we learn that their sawblade is no longer working. Skorpios gets extremely aggressive, pushing Icewave all over the ring and not letting the spinner get back up to speed.

Skorpios is taking more damage, but is winning the aggression and strategy fight… and it looks like Icewave’s spinner is slow to get going. We go to the judges.

Hard to score. Icewave wins damage, but Skorpios might have won the other three. Let’s see… and the winner on a split decision is Skorpios.

Spoiler: Some commentary and questions

Show

This last fight shows some of the controversy about the scoring. Yes, Skorpios was more aggressive, but it fought the way it did because they lost the weapon. And the pushing around the ring came at the cost of even more damage. One of the commentators brings up that point.

Looking at the scoring, it certainly leaves room for subjectivity. Let’s see…

Damage: 2 points. This is somewhat obvious. The bot that does the most damage gets the points. But how do you rate the various types of damage? Is something obvious but not serious worth more or less than something not obvious but serious? In the Bombshell fight, is that last second (literally) flame enough to counter the pounding yeti took (including the loss of its weapon)?

Aggression: 1 point. Being honest, I suspect the only reason this one is here is to encourage bots to actually fight. Again, going back to the Bombshell/Yeti fight, Bombshell clearly had that won after disabling Yetis weapon. But no one wants to wait the full 3 minutes for the buzzer. The aggression point encourages Yeti to go all out on the offensive even though they have no working weapon. Is it worth it?

Control: 1 point. This one seems obvious, but there’s still the subjective element. Does a high-speed robot get more or less points than a low-speed. How does control factor in when you are damaged?

Strategy: 1 point. This is the one I like the least. Let’s face it, everyone’s strategy is to disable/destroy the other bot using their weapon to best effectiveness. But (kind of like aggression) is it really strategy when damage has forced you to do something? Going back to Bombshell/Yeti, Yeti had no choice but to smash into Bombshell and hope they jarred something loose. Likewise, Skorpios had the same strategy of desperation.

Note that for Skorpios to win their point, they had to get ALL 3 of the non-damage points. Did they really earn all 3?

[Traab]

I agree, hammer is near useless. Want to make it even potentially useful? Make it a spike. Multiply all that force over a much smaller surface area and you might see some damage doe. What was the name of the battlebot grant used on mythbusters? It was a little guy with a super fast pickaxe weapon and it did some notable damage. Deadblow, thats the one. If you want a hammerblow to work, it has to deliver impacts on par with broncos flipper landings. Thats the only way its going to knock bits loose inside.

[tomandtish]

Grant's bot was Deadblow.

The spike might work a little better. But Chomp kind of goes with that idea (a pointed hammer) and also does minimal/no damage even when it gets a solid hit.

[Traab]

Grant's bot was Deadblow.

The spike might work a little better. But Chomp kind of goes with that idea (a pointed hammer) and also does minimal/no damage even when it gets a solid hit.

Well yeah, his has no real mass behind it iirc. Due to how it works, he loses most of his impact because he sends himself flying when he uses it. Have a boxer hammer a pressure sensor in an ideal stance, then have him swinging in the air from a rope and try it again. He is going to lose significant impact force because he isnt properly braced and his fist is going to shove him away as much as its hitting the sensor.

[tomandtish]

Week 10:

Spoiler: Hypershock (HS) v. Free Shipping

Show

HS has the vertical spinner and forked wedges (but only one this match). FS has the flamethrower (meh) and lifting fork. I’d expect HS to have the advantage…

At the start there’s a mid-arena collision. And from then on it’s all FS. HS’s spinner seems damaged, as it only gets up to speed once or twice. The rest of the time it spins to half-speed, then stops. Meanwhile FS keeps ramming HS, finally knocking it upside down. Without both forks, HS can’t self-right easily.

Near the end FS gets up to HS and unleashes about 15 seconds of solid flame. There is some smoke coming out of HS when it is done, but the tire it was hitting was relatively undamaged. Still HS can’t move easily and is counted out.

It’s unclear how much damage the flame did, but it apparently did some. Despite looking unwieldy, FS seems to have some potential.

Spoiler: Red Devil (RD) v. Subzero (SZ)

Show

RD has that vertical sawblade. SZ is a flipper in the style of Bronco, although not as powerful. It’s also had reliability issues. SX is using a drone as well.

As the fight starts, there’s some initial maneuvering. Then SZ proceeds to flip RD three times. However, each flip is less than the last, and RD can move upside down (although the weapon is much less effective).

However, after the third flip SZ seems to have a bent flipper. In addition, the drone takes a nose dive into the mat for no apparent reason. It’s out. RD goes on the offensive, showing great control and driving. It is able to engage the saw a few times, which looks impressive but is actually doing no damage. Meanwhile, the drone gets knocked into the screws and comes out in mangled pieces (seriously, it’s not even recognizable). There’s one more grab and cut by RD and we go to the judges.

This should be RD’s fight easily. While there were the three initial flips, RD dominated in control and skill, and visible damage. And RD gets the unanimous decision.

Spoiler: Sharkoprion (SK) v. Warhead (WH)

Show

We haven’t seen either of these bots on the show yet this season, so will have to see how they do. WH, with an unusual front spinner) has a lot of history behind it, but hasn’t been all that effective in the current itineration. SK has a vertical spinner and an extremely long body. It apparently won a non-televised match.

Except WH isn’t going with the spinner config today. They are using the dinosaur head, which is a grappler mouth…

And it’s very effective against SK. The entire match is pretty much WH grabbing SK, flaming it for 20 or so seconds, releasing and repeating. SK never really had much offense going. While it did get a hit or two with the spinner, no significant damage was done. The match goes to the judges and WH gets the decision.

SK seems too long to be easily maneuverable. They had difficulty bringing their weapon to bear, and would often be slow enough in a turn that it allowed WH to grab the side. I wondered if part of the strategy was a tail lash, but it never did anything significant.

We see the two teams after the fight. SK hands Team WH the fin from the top of their bot as a trophy. They also admit that they knew they were toast (pun intended) about a minute into the fight. Still, both seem to have had a lot of fun.

Spoiler: Monsoon (MN) v. SOW

Show

One of the nastier horizontal spinners versus a nasty vertical spinning bar. Both bots have solid knockouts this season. Monsoon has had some reliability issues however. I’ll give the edge to SOW.

And I’d be right. This one is short and brutal. They appear to both have decided that weapon to weapon is the way to win, and SOW’s comes out the winner. MN goes flying a few times, loses a few pieces, the weapon stops working, and then it’s still and smoking. And this takes under a minute.

Have to admit, I’d like to see SOW go after Tombstone. IF they could get a solid hit, I suspect Tombstone would be in trouble.

Spoiler: Bronco v. Duck

Show

The world class flipper is up against a bot who works under the “break your fist with my face” strategy (even Duck’s crew says this). It is powerful in the driving, but no real weapons to speak of. This SHOULD be Bronco’s match easily, especially since there’s no dangerous side of Duck for them to have to avoid. Meanwhile, there’s apparently a bet among arena staff whether or not Bronco bounces a bot off the lights before the end of the season. Bronco has also removed the side armor for this fight. Not a bad decision since Duck can’t really do any damage that the armor would stop.

They crash a few times. Duck’s strategy seems to be working, as Bronco misses a few flips (they do have a limited number), and Bronco actually loses a wheel when one of their flips backfires. They also go upside down once.

Duck gets a little overaggressive however, and Bronco gets in a few good shots. They then pin Duck against a wall, and 2-3 flips later flip Duck out of the ring.

Props to Duck, as their strategy worked about as well as you could hope. They were doing well until they slipped and got cornered. But that’s why Bronco is so effective. Mess up against them and you are going out of the ring.

Incidentally, there's apparently an 8 bot elimination next time, where the last bot standing gets a slot in the sweet 16.

[Traab]

On tombstone. the thing with him is, he is a glass cannon. His body is a simple cube with all his components, and a solid hit to that body from say, a rival spinner, or even a good bronco toss or two, would likely knock him right out. But he is just so QUICK at pivoting to take care of any attempt to flank him, and his spinner is SO vicious that unless it breaks, chances are good he will tear you apart before you can land those solid hits. When I first saw him i thought he would get knocked out quick despite that murderous weapon of his, but when I saw his maneuverability, I quickly realized he was a champ bot.

Most bot types have flaws in them. An exploitable weakness. Some are slow and ponderous, others have limited ammo. Some have to be carefully balanced to avoid taking themselves out. Others take time to get their weapon up to useful speed. The secret to success is compensating for your vulnerabilities. Take bronco for example. One of his weaknesses is exposed wheels. But as we saw in one fight he lost, he ended up losing like 4 of 6 wheels before he stopped being able to move decently well. Meanwhile tombstone has two wheels. If he loses one, he is dead in the water. Hell, the tilt from losing a wheel would probably take out his spinner as well. But again, the problem is reaching that wheel without having 2/3 of your body ripped off so violently it gets embedded in the freaking arena wall. The full body ziggo types are powerful, but if you can put a solid dent in the body, they are off balance and can no longer spin so fast. They wobble like an off balance washing machine. I have even see horizontal spinners have that issue. Iirc nightmare went into a few fights clearly unable to rev up to full because it was throwing his body over.

[tomandtish]

Yeah... I'm thinking back and trying to see if Tombstone ever took a solid hit to the body. Even in the fight with Minotaur, the hits were to the spinner, not the body. And that's the closest i think we've come to seeing someone defeat Tombstone in a straight-up fight with no preexisting damage.