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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    I just went "Oh ****" aloud when I got to the last panel. Man, and I'd have thought Hilgya might make it (don't clerics tend to have good Will saves?) but that is Very Not Good. Don't suppose someone can at least turn Belkar's clasp real quick?
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    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Oddly, I still feel like this was Roy and the Order making progress. V fireballed a bunch of vampires, Roy killed a couple of the weaker clerics, and several others are damaged too. Granted, the mind control is a problem, but it's surmountable, probably.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh, I was expecting to see more of the memory. I guess Durkon's still washing up for as long as it is needed for us to see the memory at a narratively appropriate moment. That's how the OotS world rolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightcanon View Post
    And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot.
    I don't agree with that sentiment. Just because clerics have a high will save doesn't mean we'd never get to see a cleric fail one of them. How many times has that happened in the comic anyway? I could be wrong, but I think it's not too many as should be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashem View Post
    Hilgya blowing her save doesn't really make a lot of sense for one reason: It was pretty dumb of him to TRY and dominate her. 4 out of 5 times that is going to waste an action at a pretty critical time.
    It's not that unreasonable. I assume the vampires focused on her to neutralize her first because she posed the greatest threat against them, but they got lucky and dominated her fast and then they dominated a bunch of others, too, since they had actions to spare. What I'm wondering is why they didn't try to dominate V too, as evidenced by V's seeming obliviousness to the others getting dominated, but they probably didn't want to attempt two hard dominations. They can get the other dominated people to neutralize V anyway.

    Hope this isn't Minrah's time to die unceremoniously.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    It doesn't look to me like she's standing at an angle where she can see the swirly eyes? I guess she could have noticed the vampires' glowing eyes. She could also be surprised by Roy's ability to summon his sword back.
    There are no angle with which she would see the vampires and we would see her without teleporting her to the other side of the room. I guess it really pays to have peripheral vision.
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankNorman View Post
    But does she? Just because Dwarf vampire clerics automatically serve Hel doesn't mean that human ones do. Ponchuella's host was not even a worshiper of the Northern pantheon at all.
    (Because she worshiped rocks!)
    Well her spirit was made by Hel. Beyond that I guess she could switch toany god that would accept her (or the Elemental Negative Energy or whatever) but I don't see why she would do so.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverCacaobean View Post
    What I'm wondering is why they didn't try to dominate V too, as evidenced by V's seeming obliviousness to the others getting dominated, but they probably didn't want to attempt two hard dominations. They can get the other dominated people to neutralize V anyway.
    Every vampire assumed another one was dominating V. Honestly they alreaddy are pretty lucky tha (apparently) no two vampires tried to dominate one target at the same time.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2018-05-21 at 05:23 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, Roy is absolutely right -- the Order of the Stick is about to produce a few surprises.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Also, did Roy telling Belkar to protect V while they're fighting a powerful undead enemy and Belkar objecting remind you of something? Things haven't change all that much in some ways. This just never goes well for one reason or the other.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Hilgya, a high level Cleric, got hit by Dominate? That's just unlucky.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverCacaobean View Post
    What I'm wondering is why they didn't try to dominate V too, as evidenced by V's seeming obliviousness to the others getting dominated, but they probably didn't want to attempt two hard dominations. They can get the other dominated people to neutralize V anyway.
    I wonder if the mind blanks are still active.

    According to SRD, in an Area Dispel, each Dispel dispells one spell (sorry about that). V says Stoneskin and Death ward were dispelled, so maybe the MB weren't (any spell cast by V would be DC 28 to dispel. Possible, specially for Greg or Ponchulla, but not that easy)
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    I think we're missing 1-2 rounds of actions from the rest of the OotS and some passed saves, but that's drama for ya. Maybe missing some failed dispels too but Roy was probably jumping to conclusions on all buffs being gone. Since V was listing them out. I'm going to guess it wasn't just lucky saves and the Giant left at least 1 mind blank active.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Maybe Roy has the Throw Anything feat? He's thrown the sword accurately even when it was broken, after all.[/url]
    Maybe the Level Geekery thread has a better clue about this, but it would suit the kind of fighter that Roy is:

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    I though Haley had better chance to resist than most.
    A certain cleric should have a better will save too.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_McSurly View Post
    Well, you are a high level prophetess. I'm sure there are lots of other cute dwarven clerics who would love to be dominated by you.
    Hmm... now that you mention it, Minrah is looking rather undominated right now...

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WindStruck View Post
    I bet Durkon* went straight for Hilgya, perhaps a made-up bonus to dominating her specifically, since they had an intimate time together once or something...
    Isn't that a made-out bonus?

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_McSurly View Post
    I'm surprised we don't get to see the memory yet. I thought there was a climaxish moment coming.
    I'd go so far as to say it feels like a whole strip was missing. We know accessing memory is instant, so it must be done by the time action is taking place. That means Durkon's dramatic final memory happened off-panel?

    I guess it's leading to a conclusion that it's not the specific events, it's just about who was in them. But this particular transition felt incomplete.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    .......I don't think Hilgya's a Cleric. I think she's a Favored Soul. she isn't all that wise or observant, but she does have a personality that stands out and makes you pay attention. that might explain why she got dominated......
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarsir View Post
    I'd go so far as to say it feels like a whole strip was missing. We know accessing memory is instant, so it must be done by the time action is taking place. That means Durkon's dramatic final memory happened off-panel?

    I guess it's leading to a conclusion that it's not the specific events, it's just about who was in them. But this particular transition felt incomplete.
    IIRC, Rich has made it clear that he intends to to tell a clear, coherent story through the online strip. If there is crucial information in the memory, I predict we will see it next strip or the strip after, since this seems like a good spot for a cutaway. If there is no crucial information in the memory, a situation I find highly unlikely, then in the next few strips the combat will change to take us in the direction of resolution, even if it does not seem resolved now.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Yikes.

    On the positive side, though, I think there's only six vampires left.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    .......I don't think Hilgya's a Cleric. I think she's a Favored Soul. she isn't all that wise or observant, but she does have a personality that stands out and makes you pay attention. that might explain why she got dominated......
    Well, she specifically self-identified as a cleric in strip 1107, so that's probably untrue. Otherwise, perhaps we're finally learning that high-wisdom and low-intelligence can be just as dangerous as the reverse. Or hell, how even having high scores in both is no antidote to delusion. Just look at Redcloak.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Hm. I would have thought Belkar's protection from evil thing would have protected him from the mind-whammy. But I guess he wasn't glowing yellow and experienceing pain the whole time. Maybe I missed before where he decided not to activate that in favor of a casted buff.

    • I'm glad V is still in control of V.
    • Elan Mind Controlled.... yea, I'm not all that worried (Sorry, Elan). He might well Mass Cure Light Wounds his party since that was his attack spell for the Vamps. As a certain cartoon rooster was want to say, "That boy's about as sharp as a bowlin' ball."
    • Haley Mind Controlled is not good. But I don't know what the limits are of what they can compel her to do. A charm wouldn't let her attack Roy or V, I don't think. CERTAINLY not Kudzu or Elan. But Hilgya or Belkar.... maybe. But I don't know if the limits on Vampire control exceed those of a Charm.
    • Belkar Mind Controlled is Very Ungood. Esp if they just want him to stab people. I suppose it's possible this is where he might die.
    • Hilgya Mind Controlled is, Double Plus Ungood. OTOH, she might get triple bonus saves at resisting any commands from what she believes is DURKON.
    • Minrah is stilll in control of herself, but I doubt she has tooo many good spell slots in reserve. I hope so, though.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    I just noticed that the downed vampires are going misty....which I guess isn't an issue if they haven't had a chance to establish a coffin yet (as they will be destroyed after 2 hours). However, it can probably be assumed Durkula does have a coffin somewhere.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    It's possible that Durkula might be keeping his promise of not messing with Kudzu. Then again, maybe he rolled natural 20.

    This looks like a turning point in the fight. I'm curios as to how V & Roy are going to handle it.
    Force Cage probably.


    Also, I havent had a sinking feeling like this since Belkar went flying off the roof during the moot.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandor View Post
    Hm. I would have thought Belkar's protection from evil thing would have protected him from the mind-whammy. But I guess he wasn't glowing yellow and experienceing pain the whole time. Maybe I missed before where he decided not to activate that in favor of a casted buff.
    It is a casted buff. It casts Protection from Evil, which is as much a spell as the Protection from Law spells Hilgya used to protect Haley, Elan, and herself, and probably a lot more dispellable since by default magical items that cast spells do so with the minimum possible caster level to cast the spell, and there's no indication Belkar planned to pay extra for a clasp with a caster level higher than first.
    Last edited by Kish; 2018-05-21 at 06:59 PM.

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    smile Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandor View Post
    Hilgya Mind Controlled is, Double Plus Ungood.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    I know it all looks grim to the heroes, here, but there's still the (slight) chance that Roy's last lines apply not only to Durkula, but to the readers as well:

    - You think you know us so well, don't you? But we still have a few surprises in store.

    Meaning they might've anticipated a scenario where everyone was dominated.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    It does feel strange that we cut back to the fight without any follow-up on the memory cliffhanger. I wonder if the two will intersperse (they interact at the speed of thought, after all) or if that information will be revealed later.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverCacaobean View Post
    Also, did Roy telling Belkar to protect V while they're fighting a powerful undead enemy and Belkar objecting remind you of something? Things haven't change all that much in some ways. This just never goes well for one reason or the other.
    Heh, you know, it did, and if anything it's a sign of the Order's growth that Belkar had a tactically sound reason for objecting instead of just "I'd rather kill things," and that he actually listened to Roy-- well, for now.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    My reaction to the last panel was a hastily-screamed "Quick, Roy! Protect Minrah!"

    I mean, as A-List main characters of the comic, none of the Order is going to die to a lame C-list miniboss like Durkula (or his minions), and Rich is clearly too invested in the Hilgya-Durkon-Kudzu family drama for Hilgya or Kudzu to die just yet, so the only sympathetic character who could possibly get killed off here is Minrah.

    Oh, who am I kidding. She's a dwarf, she'd want to die with honor.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gatemansgc View Post
    durkula looks really happy AFTER the second cleric is (re)killed, that must have been when he succeeded in dominating hilgya.

    also, it's amazing what basically a whole party of clerics can do. so much dispel magic!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarsir View Post
    I'd go so far as to say it feels like a whole strip was missing. We know accessing memory is instant, so it must be done by the time action is taking place. That means Durkon's dramatic final memory happened off-panel?

    I guess it's leading to a conclusion that it's not the specific events, it's just about who was in them. But this particular transition felt incomplete.
    I expect we'll spend the next few strips alternating between the memory and the fight (either that or the next few strips are going to alternate a few panels in the memory, a few panels in the fight) with the climactic moment of the fight at around the same time as the most important/climactic moment of the memory.
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    Good strip, good strip. Love the tension building up.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat View Post
    A certain cleric should have a better will save too.
    Besides the chance she just got unlucky, as a high level cleric she probably got tagged as a priority target and had to save against multiple dominates.

    V meanwhile is the squishiest party member once the buffs are out, so the vampires are probably confident they can finish him off the old fashioned way (in particular if, say, Belkar starts stabbing him).

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    I mean, as A-List main characters of the comic, none of the Order is going to die to a lame C-list miniboss like Durkula (or his minions), and Rich is clearly too invested in the Hilgya-Durkon-Kudzu family drama for Hilgya or Kudzu to die just yet, so the only sympathetic character who could possibly get killed off here is Minrah.
    Hey, original-party-member-gone-to-the-dark-side is at least B-list boss!
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2018-05-21 at 08:35 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

    I doubt the cut back to the external battle here will seem at all strange once the sequence is concluded and can be read all at once. Mid-scene, it's awfully easy to leap to conclusions about how the scene-in-progress is being structured, and then to feel wrong-footed when those expectations aren't fulfilled. When you don't have days between strips to build up those expectations, but only seconds between one page and the next, that wrong-footing just doesn't happen in the same way.

    I also thought we were going to head straight into Durkon's memory here, but I don't think there's anything inherently awkward about the scene-shift. It's continuing to build up the tension on two simultaneous fronts. It's a fine structure, just not exactly the structure that some of us (myself included) were expecting, that's all.

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