Extra Attack Incompatible With Elven Accuracy

[Lombra]

Anything that can restrain/stun the target can help. A net, entangle, a monk.

[Sception]

A technicality, but prone doesn't impose disadvantage on ranged attacks, it imposes disadvantage on attacks made from more than 5' away, regardless of whether the attack is melee or ranged. For instance, a melee attack from a halberd made using the weapons extra reach would suffer disadvantage. Likewise, if a big monster has extra reach and uses this to attack a prone character more than 5' away, that attack also suffers disadvantage.

Likewise, prone doesn't grant advantage to melee attacks, it grants advantage to attacks within 5', regardless of whether those attacks are melee or ranged. If you run right up to a prone target to shoot it with a crossbow from point blank range, that attack would have advantage. Of course, that advantage would be cancelled out by the disadvantage you'd get for making a ranged attack while within 5' of an enemy. Unless you had the crossbow expert feat, which cancels that penalty.

So if you have crossbow expert and elven accuracy and an enemy drops prone, you can run right up to their face and shoot them as many times as you'd like with triple advantage.

[DarkKnightJin]

Dexadin. Vengeance for Vow of Enmity, once per short rest.
Both Vengeance and Conquest get Hold Person to gain Advantage on their attacks.

Of course, you need to make Melee weapon attacks to Smite with. That cuts down on the usability quite a bit.

That said.. Half-elven Warlock gets access to Hold Person too, and Eldritch Blast uses Charisma so Elven Accuracy would apply.
Don't even need to be a Hexblade or a Blade Pact, either. You get up to 4 'attacks' with EB for free.

[HMS Invincible]

This is what I managed to think up before the build options spiral out of control. It's quite hard thinking up what's flavorful and optimal for ranged characters. All this theory crafting just shows how great elven accuracy could possibly be but always just out of reach.

Archer builds based on point buy.
1. Base
Fighter 4 Arcane Archer/2 Rogue High Elf
10 STR
18 DEX
14 Con
12 Int
12 Wis
10 Cha
Elven Accuracy Feat
I can use a longbow, and cunning action to get 1 attack off each turn, and crit fish a sneak attack with it.
1d8 + SA(avg 7 dmg) +4 Dex = 15.5

2. Variation 1
Fighter 6 Arcane Archer Kobold
8 STR
17 DEX
14 Con
12 Int
12 Wis
9 Cha
Sharpshooter Feat & (Mounted Combat or Lucky)
I can use a longbow, to get 2 attacks off each turn with advantage in the nonlight.
(1d6+ 10) +3 Dex + (1d6+ 10) +3 Dex = 36 x miss%

2. Variation 2
Fighter 5 Battlemaster/Warlock Hexblade 1 Wood Elf
10 STR
10 DEX
15 Con
10 Int
14 Wis
18 Cha
Elven Accuracy Feat
I can use a Repeating hand crossbow, to get 2 attacks off each turn and hope for advantage. Or go sharpshooter.
(1d4) +4 Cha + (1d4) +4 Cha = 13

A technicality, but prone doesn't impose disadvantage on ranged attacks, it imposes disadvantage on attacks made from more than 5' away, regardless of whether the attack is melee or ranged. For instance, a melee attack from a halberd made using the weapons extra reach would suffer disadvantage. Likewise, if a big monster has extra reach and uses this to attack a prone character more than 5' away, that attack also suffers disadvantage.

Likewise, prone doesn't grant advantage to melee attacks, it grants advantage to attacks within 5', regardless of whether those attacks are melee or ranged. If you run right up to a prone target to shoot it with a crossbow from point blank range, that attack would have advantage. Of course, that advantage would be cancelled out by the disadvantage you'd get for making a ranged attack while within 5' of an enemy. Unless you had the crossbow expert feat, which cancels that penalty.

So if you have crossbow expert and elven accuracy and an enemy drops prone, you can run right up to their face and shoot them as many times as you'd like with triple advantage.

Wow, that's actually really cool. Some sort of Fighter BM 8/Hexblade warlock 1 halfelf would be pretty nifty.

[Captain_Falcon9]

Guardian of nature: Tree form. Comes online at level 13 but if you pick up elven accuracy at level 12 it's a quick power boost. One full minute of advantage on Dex based attacks and a slew of other benefits. You can pick up elven accuracy at 8 and use coniure animals with a short sword to get 3 d20 roles with wolves and prone if you want to feel cooler quicker. Also with horde breaker you can pretty easily have 3 attacks per round.....

[Sception]

Wow, that's actually really cool. Some sort of Fighter BM 8/Hexblade warlock 1 halfelf would be pretty nifty.

fighter with a shield, hand crossbow, crossbow expert, shield master, elven accuracy. Every round just plow someone over with the shield and shoot them a bunch of times in the face while they're down. :p

[TheUser]

gloom stalker ranger

[Xihirli]

fighter with a shield, hand crossbow, crossbow expert, shield master, elven accuracy. Every round just plow someone over with the shield and shoot them a bunch of times in the face while they're down. :p

You have disadvantage on ranged attacks within 5 feet - it's cancelled out by advantage on a prone target within 5 feet, but that's just normal vantage.

Not to mention the MADness of using DEX as your primary attack stat and STR to shove people over.

[Aimeryan]

You have disadvantage on ranged attacks within 5 feet - it's cancelled out by advantage on a prone target within 5 feet, but that's just normal vantage.

Not to mention the MADness of using DEX as your primary attack stat and STR to shove people over.

Crossbow Expert.

Agree about the Str, however. Battlemaster using the Trip Attack manoeuvre may be more likely to work, especially against creatures with a bad Str score - Trip Attack only allows for a Str saving throw, while shove allows for a Str (Athletics) or Dex (Acrobatics) check, their choice.

[Xihirli]

Right. Thank you for the correction.

[HMS Invincible]

Crossbow Expert.

Agree about the Str, however. Battlemaster using the Trip Attack manoeuvre may be more likely to work, especially against creatures with a bad Str score - Trip Attack only allows for a Str saving throw, while shove allows for a Str (Athletics) or Dex (Acrobatics) check, their choice.

The strength saving throws has aDC based on your Dex or Str (your choice). The real problem is you can't dump Dex by using hexblade. That muddles the build since you have to decide which way to go.

[wilhelmdubdub]

would a gloomstalker get it for being invisible in lowlight?

[strangebloke]

would a gloomstalker get it for being invisible in lowlight?

In darkness, a gloomstalker basically has greater invisibility up at all times.

[Crgaston]

Hmmm, methinks I'd do it this way:

Wood Elf for +2 Dex (start with at least a 17 Dex with point buy) +1 Wis (mostly for saves -note Samurai 7 below)... Half Elf Drow Variant for Faerie Fire works too for this build if you're rolling your abilities and get a high Dex Score. 10 15(+2) 14 10 13(+1) 10 would be good starting stats with point buy.

Start as a Dex Samurai (Archery Fighting Style of course/Con saves/all weapon proficiencies etc.) for Fighting Spirit until level 6 so you can get an extra attack at Samurai 5 and gain two ASIs (level 4 and 6)

Take Elven Accuracy at Level 4 ASI (take your Dex to 18 if you did point buy) so your Samurai can use it to their advantage with Fighting Spirit/Action Surge.

Take Sharpshooter at Level 6 ASI to use with Fighting Spirit/Action Surge trivantage.

Take 3 levels of Rogue to become an Assassin for the Assassinate ability to gain advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. Use Fighting Spirit on low initiative encounters where you're not going first. Don't forget to add in those sneak attack dice once per turn.

Take the 4th level of Assassin for the ASI and get the Alert Feat, +5 to initiative. You're going to have advantage a lot now for going first with your +9 to initiative and you always have Fighting Spirit/Action Surge to fall back on when you don't.

Take two more levels of Samurai (Samurai 8/Assassin 4). Samurai 7 gets you Wisdom saving throw proficiency. Samurai 8 gets you another ASI. Take Crossbow Expert or +2 Dex (Dex 20).

Depending on how long your campaign is going to last I'd take 4 more levels in Samurai (Samurai 12/Assassin 4). 2 more levels gets you Tireless Spirit at Samurai 10. Samurai 11 gets you another extra attack. Samuari 12 gets you another ASI to take what you didn't pick up at Samurai 8.

If your campaign is still going there's several ways you can go... The best way to go is probably to take more levels in Assassin to get you more sneak attack dice, Uncanny Dodge at Assassin 5, more Expertise at 6, Evasion at Assassin 7, and another feat/ASI at Assassin 8.

More levels in Samurai will get you another use of Indomitable at 13, another ASI at 14 (Con+2/Feat?), another attack (Rapid Strike) at 15 although you sacrifice advantage for it (boo!), and yet another ASI at Samurai 16.

With a little planning in the beginning you could multiclass into a 3rd class. Dex and Con are really all you need for the initial build starting out so getting a 13 or 14 in another stat to multiclass into shouldn't be a problem...

If you feel you need more initiative modifiers you could go Bard 2 for Jack of All Trades for half your proficiency bonus to initiative. You can also pick up Faerie Fire from the Bard spell list if you need even more advantage opportunities.

War Wizard 2 with a high Intelligence (say 14) would help with initiative (+2 for 14 Int) and give you +2 AC or +4 for a saving throw as a reaction.

War Domain Cleric 1 will get you a couple extra weapon attacks (based on your Wisdom modifier) at the cost of a bonus action. Good for those not using hand crossbows (Crossbow Expert feat bonus action). War Domain 2 with give you a +10 to hit once a long rest with channel divinity for when Sharpshooter/Sneak attacks really need to hit, especially good if you have surprise because it's an automatic critical with the Assassinate ability (Assassin 3). And on and on.


Anyway, hope you enjoy being a Samurai/Assassin multiclass killing machine with trivantage most of the time.

This is a great build!

I will add that, for a 3rd class, 3 levels of Gloomstalker would get +Wis to initiative, another fighting style and an extra Attack on the 1st round of combat with an extra d8. And you already have the stats for the multiclass in your original build. It’d also give you Ensnaring Strike 3x/day for even more advantage opportunities.

So 12/5/3... not sure when to take what, though.

[JackPhoenix]

fighter with a shield, hand crossbow, crossbow expert, shield master, elven accuracy. Every round just plow someone over with the shield and shoot them a bunch of times in the face while they're down. :p

You mean shoot them once. Per a fight. Because you can't reload the crossbow if you're wielding a shield with the other hand. You need two hands to reload the crossbow.

[HMS Invincible]

You mean shoot them once. Per a fight. Because you can't reload the crossbow if you're wielding a shield with the other hand. You need two hands to reload the crossbow.

The GM has allowed a repeating hand crossbow. Only 5 round magazine though. I'm guessing you drop the shield and draw your hand crossbow on the third round

[JackPhoenix]

The GM has allowed a repeating hand crossbow. Only 5 round magazine though. I'm guessing you drop the shield and draw your hand crossbow on the third round

Ah, skipped over all that stuff in the character build.

[Tanarii]

Half-elf Valor Bard 8/16/14/12/10/16

Gets Faerie Fire from level 1, Long Bows and Heavy Crossbows at 3, Elven Accuracy at 4, Extra Attack at 6, Greater Invisibility at 7, Sharpshooter at 8, and Swift Quiver at 10. Plus lots of skills so plenty of room for Stealth and Perception. Can wear a Breastplate after 3rd (once she can afford it) for AC 16. Lack of Dex and Archery Style doesn't matter as much as normal because triple advantage.

[Xihirli]

The GM has allowed a repeating hand crossbow. Only 5 round magazine though. I'm guessing you drop the shield and draw your hand crossbow on the third round

Doffing a shield is a full action.

[TheUser]

Half-elf Valor Bard 8/16/14/12/10/16

Gets Faerie Fire from level 1, Long Bows and Heavy Crossbows at 3, Elven Accuracy at 4, Extra Attack at 6, Greater Invisibility at 7, Sharpshooter at 8, and Swift Quiver at 10. Plus lots of skills so plenty of room for Stealth and Perception. Can wear a Breastplate after 3rd (once she can afford it) for AC 16. Lack of Dex and Archery Style doesn't matter as much as normal because triple advantage.

Why would you take elven accuracy with all even stats?

Dump 2 intelligence to get 17 starting charisma and then buff up your casting stat at level 4 to 18....

common sense people...

[HMS Invincible]

Doffing a shield is a full action.

Good point. Drop your repeating crossbow and draw a fresh loaded one. You'll probably keep like 9 of them in case they get lost until you can go back to town to restock.

[Tanarii]

Why would you take elven accuracy with all even stats?

Dump 2 intelligence to get 17 starting charisma and then buff up your casting stat at level 4 to 18....

common sense people...

Because standard array doesn't allow you to do that, and it's what I was working with.

[TheUser]

Because standard array doesn't allow you to do that, and it's what I was working with.

I get that it's standard array but nowhere in the thread is this stated as mandatory...

Considering Point Buy is 100% AL legal and fair, why would you assume that the player is involved with a DM that doesn't allow point buy? It just seems strange to offer a less than optimized build under a constraint not stated by the OP.

Hmmm, methinks I'd do it this way...

I'm sorry but I can't in good conscience let this build be posted un-molested by criticism.

In any context of a character plan where crossbow expert is being considered as a feat it is important to take it as early as possible because it is an extra attack per round. The Samurai's ability to gain advantage will last for 3 rounds of combat per DAY (12 attacks if they are action surge rounds) whereas crossbow expert will last the rest of those rounds; this is important to consider because using fighting spirit and the extra attack from crossbow expert are mutually exclusive because the rounds where Crossbow expert can be used for an extra attack are ones where you cannot use fighting spirit. Do you think Elven Accuracy will provide you with more misses converted into hits compared to how many free attacks you get from crossbow expert?

While elven accuracy does add +1 to hit and damage as well as more consistent hitting while advantage is up, I would contend it is far more meaningful to have an extra attack the rest of the rounds you don't use Fighting Spirit. This for me is at the heart of the problem with Elven Accuracy Archer builds, which want to use the feat in conjunction with 2 others (sharpshooter and crossbow expert) such that taking the feat also comes at the cost of -not- taking Variant Human. As such you are now working with a build which requires an additional feat tax and provides one less (every other build that involves variant human has sharpshooter and crossbow expert by level 4!).

I digress, I don't like the multi-class into Assassin either....
There is a slight amount of counter synergy in the fact that rolling 3x with advantage provides more endemic critical strike opportunities that the assassin glosses over in that opening round. This isn't very mathematically significant but it's worth mentioning.

It is also far more worthwhile to get to Samurai level 8 as soon as possible because the combination of these three feats brings the average DPR of the player up by a great deal under any context where the player is given advantage outside of fighting spirit (not unlikely) and getting to Samurai level 11 makes action surge 50% stronger as well as adds 33% to your standard DPR with 4 attacks per round instead of 3.

And at level 12 Samurai (when you would get the feat from assassin anyway) you get +2 dex and now have +1 more hit and damage instead of taking Alert. Getting Alert is fun and while Assassin looks good on paper that surprise round doesn't come very often. Not only does your entire party need to succeed on stealth (or you can initiate without them I guess....) it also requires you to win initiative which is a gamble.

All in all...adding assassin adds a bit of extra DPR for Sneak attack (2d6 per round; 7) while the other adds an extra attack (1d6+5 or +15 if you sharpshooter, which is 8.5/18.5 DPR) as well as +1 to hit and damage because you aren't reliant on taking alert (another 3 raw DPR and more from the additional hit chance).


I get the feeling this build was just concocted on the fly instead of doing a bit of diligence by comparing it to anything else....like how it stacks up compared to a full Samurai at level 12.

Stealth expertise can be nice and cunning action is always sweet but then you aren't using crossbow expert....


Anyway, now that I'm done being a big ol' meanie and tearing down other people's contributions (Which is important because stopping the spread of misinformation for players asking for advice I consider crucial) I'd normally begin to offer up more alternatives but the OP mostly seems concerned with ways to consistently get advantage with extra attack not full on builds. Hexblade with Darkness, Gloomstalkers in regular dark and Valor Bards/Bladesingers with Greater Invisibility all come to mind. Or...y'know....relying on your allies to help you get advantage.

[Tanarii]

I get that it's standard array but nowhere in the thread is this stated as mandatory...

Considering Point Buy is 100% AL legal and fair, why would you assume that the player is involved with a DM that doesn't allow point buy? It just seems strange to offer a less than optimized build under a constraint not stated by the OP.

Because standard array is what I'm used to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right. I'm explaining why I made the mistake.

[JackPhoenix]

The GM has allowed a repeating hand crossbow. Only 5 round magazine though. I'm guessing you drop the shield and draw your hand crossbow on the third round

By the way, I just realized... repeating crossbow still needs two hands. You don't have to reload it every turn, so you can shoot more than once, but you still need both hands to re-cock it after every shot. It lacks the Loading property (which limits your rate of fire), but not the Ammunition property (which specifices you need two hands to use it).

[HMS Invincible]

By the way, I just realized... repeating crossbow still needs two hands. You don't have to reload it every turn, so you can shoot more than once, but you still need both hands to re-cock it after every shot. It lacks the Loading property (which limits your rate of fire), but not the Ammunition property (which specifices you need two hands to use it).

IIRC, nowhere in the rules states that you have to recock it, only that you have to load it. Hence why they refer to a
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...geadvice_feats

Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon? The short answer is no.

The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property (PH, 147) of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.

It would defeat the purpose of the gnomish invention if it didn't do remove the ammunition keyword. You're free to hose your players if you're the DM though.

While I'm still on the fence about it, let's explore the HXbow some more.

2. Variation 2
Fighter 6 Battlemaster/Warlock Hexblade 1 High Elf or Wood Elf
8 STR
18 DEX
14 Con
12 Int
12 Wis
12 Cha
Elven Accuracy Feat
Crossbow Expert
16-18 AC
I can use a Repeating hand crossbow, to get 2 attacks off each turn and hope for advantage. Or go sharpshooter.
(1d4) +4 Dex + (1d4) +4 Dex + (1d4) +4 Dex = 19.5

I think the wood elf would give more options though cantrips are nice. It doesn't come online until lvl 7, though I'm not sure if the hexblade is worth it since it only improves crit range now instead of both crit range + damage. It doesn't synergize with BM trip maneuver, so it's not really worth it. Is being SAD worth not being able to trip? Having poison would be nice, but it's fairly rare. Not to mention how inefficient it is (1 big attack vs lots of small attacks eating up your rare poisons/magic bolts). It'll take until lvl 8-9 before Sharpshooter comes online. Hmmm, why even bother with elven accuracy then, I could just take xbow xpert & Sharpshooter if I was a BM. Then it would be scary until it starts crit fishing at lvl 9.

Variation 3

Fighter 6 Battlemaster/Warlock Hexblade 1 High Elf or Wood Elf
8 STR
17 DEX
14 Con
12 Int
12 Wis
12 Cha
Sharpshooter
Crossbow Expert
15-17 AC w/shield

(1d4) +4 Dex +10 + (1d4) +4 Dex +10 + (1d4) +4 Dex +10 = 49.5

[JackPhoenix]

IIRC, nowhere in the rules states that you have to recock it, only that you have to load it. Hence why they refer to a
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...geadvice_feats

It would defeat the purpose of the gnomish invention if it didn't do remove the ammunition keyword. You're free to hose your players if you're the DM though.

The official repeating crossbow (from OotA) only removes Loading quality, not Ammunition quality. And PHB errata on Ammunition quality is clear: "Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand." Being able to shoot more than once per action is the purpose of repeating crossbow, not removing the Ammunition quality doesn't defeat that purpose in any way.

You're free to homebrew whatever you want, if you're the DM, obviously.

[HMS Invincible]

The official repeating crossbow (from OotA) only removes Loading quality, not Ammunition quality. And PHB errata on Ammunition quality is clear: "Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand." Being able to shoot more than once per action is the purpose of repeating crossbow, not removing the Ammunition quality doesn't defeat that purpose in any way.

You're free to homebrew whatever you want, if you're the DM, obviously.

It appears we are at passive aggressive standoff. I demand a duel request a third opinion.

[Contrast]

The official repeating crossbow (from OotA) only removes Loading quality, not Ammunition quality. And PHB errata on Ammunition quality is clear: "Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand." Being able to shoot more than once per action is the purpose of repeating crossbow, not removing the Ammunition quality doesn't defeat that purpose in any way.

You're free to homebrew whatever you want, if you're the DM, obviously.

That specific item is equally clear that it automatically reloads after firing, no interaction required. Specific beats general.

[Tanarii]

The official repeating crossbow (from OotA) only removes Loading quality, not Ammunition quality. And PHB errata on Ammunition quality is clear: "Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand." Being able to shoot more than once per action is the purpose of repeating crossbow, not removing the Ammunition quality doesn't defeat that purpose in any way.

You're free to homebrew whatever you want, if you're the DM, obviously.

Does it require loading after every shot? Or once every 5 shots?